My grandfather owned a livery stable which in that day was the equivalent of HERTZ OR AVIS today. He owned the first glass enclosed buggy in Henderson County, KY. My father courted my mother in that fancy buggy. He told me he could take my mother home and then he could sleep all the way to his home because the horse knew the way. Jim Smith Kennesaw, GA

I loved your message, please feel free to contribute any memories you care to send. I expect you have a wealth of warm family thoughts. You have stretched our thinking concerning our forefathers daily life. Please continue to be yourself. Truly Jo Ann in Mo. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loretta Kelldorf" <pandv@tyler.net> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 8:09 AM Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Finding a Mate > When I was a kid, our ranch was ten miles from the nearest village. It took forty-five minutes to ride the ten miles on horseback. It was no problem for the horse. We could go to the post office, do the day's errands and that horse could still make it home in time to get his feed. You must understand that there is a difference in a horse's ability to travel if he is a fit animal in good shape versus a kid's pony or a horse that only gets ridden for recreation. Many horses also have gaits other than walk, trot, or gallop. Some of those gaits are very comfortable for riding and make good travel time. And I assure you, no matter how tired a horse is, if you head him home to that feed bag, you would be amazed how fast a tired horse can travel! I have fond memories of riding my tired horse home at sundown after a full day or riding range looking for lost cattle and/or repairing fences. It always amazed me how good we both felt when it was time to go to the corral! > > Romance can be very inspiring to a young man, or even an old one for that matter, and I am sure it would be sufficient fuel to enable him to row home if he went by water. > > Bear in mind how fit people and animals were then. Laboring on a farm or farm trades kept a person very fit. Even if they traveled by foot, a young man could go several miles in time to court his girl for a couple of hours and still get home in time to work the next day. When I was nine years old a boy in my class walked three miles after school to bring a box of candy to me for Valentine's day and I assure you he got home for supper that evening. Now, it is important to keep in mind that the young man wanted to have plenty of time for the courting after he got there, so is it likely that he stayed within a ten mile radius; although, a genealogy lecture I went to once proposed the theory that most men married someone who lived with a three mile radius of them. If you consider the size of the homesteads in Va, not many of them were greater than 640 acres which is a square mile. You can see by that, that a three mile radius would give you a number of neighbors from w! > hich to choose a mate. > > Loretta in Texas > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > The USGenWeb Project http://www.usgenweb.org > > > ============================== > Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! > http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2 > >

When I was a kid, our ranch was ten miles from the nearest village. It took forty-five minutes to ride the ten miles on horseback. It was no problem for the horse. We could go to the post office, do the day's errands and that horse could still make it home in time to get his feed. You must understand that there is a difference in a horse's ability to travel if he is a fit animal in good shape versus a kid's pony or a horse that only gets ridden for recreation. Many horses also have gaits other than walk, trot, or gallop. Some of those gaits are very comfortable for riding and make good travel time. And I assure you, no matter how tired a horse is, if you head him home to that feed bag, you would be amazed how fast a tired horse can travel! I have fond memories of riding my tired horse home at sundown after a full day or riding range looking for lost cattle and/or repairing fences. It always amazed me how good we both felt when it was time to go to the corral! Romance can be very inspiring to a young man, or even an old one for that matter, and I am sure it would be sufficient fuel to enable him to row home if he went by water. Bear in mind how fit people and animals were then. Laboring on a farm or farm trades kept a person very fit. Even if they traveled by foot, a young man could go several miles in time to court his girl for a couple of hours and still get home in time to work the next day. When I was nine years old a boy in my class walked three miles after school to bring a box of candy to me for Valentine's day and I assure you he got home for supper that evening. Now, it is important to keep in mind that the young man wanted to have plenty of time for the courting after he got there, so is it likely that he stayed within a ten mile radius; although, a genealogy lecture I went to once proposed the theory that most men married someone who lived with a three mile radius of them. If you consider the size of the homesteads in Va, not many of them were greater than 640 acres which is a square mile. You can see by that, that a three mile radius would give you a number of neighbors from w! hich to choose a mate. Loretta in Texas

Concerning your question about bride-seeking males, presumably of colonial days: I attended a lecture some years given by a well-known genealogist lecturer-author (and head of the genealogy section of the Dallas Public Library) who maintained that men in search of a bride generally floated downstream. How did he get home? Well, said Lloyd D. Bockstruck, he was so infatuated that he had no trouble rowing home! I do find when researching my colonials that it is important to note on what watercourse (creek, run, swamp, etc.) they patented land (or purchased land, as the case may be) and then I collect other *suspicious characters* who had land on or near that watercourse at approximately the same time period. Also, I find that they DID indeed intermarry and sometimes migrate together. Even if the watercourse is not mentioned in the patent, it may be mentioned in a subsequent deed. In fact, when I was trying to help an NSDAR applicant sort out two men of the same name, who, unfortunately lived in adjoining counties, the DAR staff member (professional genealogist) said I had to determine on which watercourse each lived and who the associates of each one were. That lesson has stayed with me!! It took a lot of searching because these were NOT my ancestors. I did have a list of the spouses of the patriot's children, and those surnames helped me sort out the two men--and I did find the watercourse. She became a member! Whew! Hope this helps. E.W.Wallace southern California

Dear List: Can anyone identify these Hawkins buried in St. Louis County, Missouri in Fee Fee Cemetery: William Hawkins, b. 10 May 1771, Halifax Co., VA; d. 2 April 1843, St. Louis Co., MO. Wife was Sarah Ann. Migrated to Missouri in 1834. Benjamin W. Hawkins, b. 13 AUG 1815, Halifax Co., VA; d. 23 July 1873, St. Louis Co. MO. First wife was "S. J.". by whom five sons and one daughter. Second wife was Nancy Avary, m. 26 April 1859 by whom one son. Craig Kilby

Yep, Sarah, that is what my Friend, M, is suggesting :) I do not have your address. Paul

Just returned to the inet; missed y'all. In the South particularly, many romantic relationships also grew from visits to the county seat or the colonial capitols during "court days" and when the legislatures were in session. Those regular events provided a very important social and "shopping" function for everyone, especially the young. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: <KBLARSEN99@aol.com> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2001 4:29 PM Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Bride Searches Dear List, In a rural community in the 1700s-1800s I believe most social contacts were made at Church Socials and/or Community Dances, usually on Saturday Nights. After a hard day in the field, and a bath, just how many miles might a prospective swain ride on horse for a bride search? Would there be a difference in the South or North? Ken Larsen ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== USGW Archives Pension Project http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/pensions/ ============================== Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 Source for Family History Online. Go to: http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB

While Margaret (as usual) is surely correct re the diligence of Southern men in finding their women, a horse, then and now, would be overwrought to go more than 6 to 8 miles along a bridle trail, one way, for a 3 or 4 hour visit with a Lady. Horses, like men, walk about 3 miles and hour, and could trot an equal distance in about 20-25 minutes. To run - "gallop" - a horse the same distance through the forests would be very harsh and exhaustive for the animal. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Driskill" <mdriskill@worldnet.att.net> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2001 4:59 PM Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Bride Searches > <Dear List, > In a rural community in the 1700s-1800s I believe most social contacts were > made at Church Socials and/or Community Dances, usually on Saturday Nights. > After a hard day in the field, and a bath, just how many miles might a > prospective swain ride on horse for a bride search? Would there be a > difference in the South or North? > > ********************************************* > Dear Ken, > > Men in the south would NEVER be to tired to jump on their trusted steed and > search for female companionship! > > Margaret > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > USGenWeb Archives Digital Maps Project > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/maps/ > > > ============================== > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com >

Dear List,   In a rural community in the 1700s-1800s I believe most social contacts were made at Church Socials and/or Community Dances, usually on Saturday Nights.   After a hard day in the field, and a bath, just how many miles might a prospective swain ride on horse for a bride search?  Would there be a difference in the South or North?  Ken Larsen

If that horse was in the field all day, pulling the plow, then that young swain had to walk. If he had followed the plow and the horse all day, he wasn't too interested in walking too far, either. In my great-grandfather's family, with six girls, the marriages were with neighbors who were within 3 or less miles. It also so happened that they were all of the same religion. Barbara Wyche ----- Original Message ----- From: <KBLARSEN99@aol.com> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2001 4:29 PM Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Bride Searches Dear List, In a rural community in the 1700s-1800s I believe most social contacts were made at Church Socials and/or Community Dances, usually on Saturday Nights. After a hard day in the field, and a bath, just how many miles might a prospective swain ride on horse for a bride search? Would there be a difference in the South or North? Ken Larsen ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== USGW Archives Pension Project http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/pensions/ ============================== Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 Source for Family History Online. Go to: http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB

<Dear List, In a rural community in the 1700s-1800s I believe most social contacts were made at Church Socials and/or Community Dances, usually on Saturday Nights. After a hard day in the field, and a bath, just how many miles might a prospective swain ride on horse for a bride search? Would there be a difference in the South or North? > ********************************************* Dear Ken, Men in the south would NEVER be to tired to jump on their trusted steed and search for female companionship! Margaret

Hello dear Sarah, That is very interesting. I checked Cumberland Parish and Reverend John Cameron's Registers for the CARGILL name (just to see) and found on March 20, 1799, Sarah H. Cargill married John R.. Mason. This was in Brunswick. Then in 1747 "At the Vestry held for this Parish in the county of Lunenburg, the 8th day of September 1747, .....Order'd that from Bouchers Creek to Irbys Tract be one precinct, and JOHN CARGILL and Samuel Harris be processioners of the same. On the next page it says.... "Order'd that CORNELIUS CARGILL Gent be allow'd 700 lbs. Tobacco for attending and burying Darby Talen. On page 36 it says.... "There was another brief order entered by the Vestry on February 8, 1749, respecting the building of a church. It affords no idea of the location of the proposed building. The entry is as follows: 'Ordered that John Twitty and John Cox view the most convenient place to build a Chappel on and make report to the next Vestry.' John Twitty was at about this date on the list of tithes of CORNELIUS CARGILL, whose precinct was "In the fork and from Butchers Creek to Little Roanoke, and beyond Dan River." Doubtless the proposed chapel was somewhere in that vast area. Sarah, I don't know if I have sent this to you before or not. Regards, Margaret

An addition to my post of April 30 re the evolution of two counties and parishes of Va. and their lost records which I'm incorporating into this message for easy reference: 1724--Lawne's Creek Parish: Established 1639 from JAMES CITY PARISH. Dissolved 1739. Lower Church of Southwarke Parish had been the mother Church of Lawne's Creek Parish (Source: Colonial Churches of Tidewater Va. by Mason, pp 27-29, p38) The chapel of Lawne's Creek Parish mentioned in the report of 1724 is thought to have been Sacauree or Seacorrie Chapel (near Swamp of that name), about 10 miles from the mother church of the parish, probably stood on or near Sacaurie Farm---one of the earliest settlements in this part of the county. Old cemetery at chapel just west of the Chinkapin Wagon road. Sacauree Chapel came into the possession of the new Parish of Albemarle. (ibid, p44) Another note, no source--- Lawn'e Creek Parish, est. 1639 (at Bacon's Castle, Hwy 10 from Surry). Burned by whites in 1868 to keep carpetbaggers out. Sarah Withers Keesee lydiap@salisbury.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Keesee" <lydiap@salisbury.net> To: ">" <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 2:36 PM Subject: Southwark Parish of Surry Co., Va. > My first ancestor found in Surry Co., Va., Thomas Weathers, purchased land > s. of the Blackwater River in 1719. The deed states that he was of Southwark > Parish. > Apparently the first seven children of Thomas Weather & w. Lydia (Pettway?) > were born while shown in Southwark. The eighth, and last child, Reuben > Weathers was c. 1741, Albemarle Parish (The Register of Albemarle Parish, > Surry and Sussex Counties, 1739-1778 by Richards), which was still Surry Co. > > According to Meade's Old Churches, p. 208: > "Parishes In Surry County, This county originally contained all that is now > Surrey and Sussex. There were two parishes in it in 1738, called Lawn's > Creek and SOUTHWARK, running the whole length of the county toward the > Carolina line, being one hundred and twenty miles. At that time each of > them were curtailed; --------------. Those parts of the parishes which lie > SOUTH OF THE BLACKWATER formed a parish by the name of > Albemarle, ------------ and the parts north of Black River formed another > parish, retaining the name of Southwark---that of Lawn's Creek being > henceforth dropped." > So from 1719 ( & earlier), to 1738, Thomas' & his family lived Surry County, > Southwark Parish. > > Again from Meade's, p. 309, Rev. John Cargill, minister of Southwark parish > state: > "I have been here sixteen years. My parish is twenty miles in width, and > one hundred inhabited in length, being a frontier-parish. It has three > hundred and ninety-four families. The school of Mr. Griffin, called > Christina, for Indians, is on the borders of my parish. there is one church > and two chapels, and seventy or eighty communicants. My tobacco now sells > at five shilling per hundred; my salary from thirty to forty pounds. My > glebe-house is in a very bad condition, and the parish will not repair it, > so I must look out for a house elsewhere. No school, no library, in the > parish." > > When in 1738, the parishes were divided and Albemarle Parish was pastored by > the Rev. William Willie, records were fastidiouly kept as shown by the > Register cited above. > There were four churches: St. Mark's, St. Andrew's, St. Paul's, and > Nottoway. Thomas d. 1744. (Surry Co., Albamarle Parish) > > In 1754, Sussex County was formed from Surry Co...being the part south of > the Blackwater. So from 1738 to 1754, Thomas's family lived Surry Co., > Albemarle Parish when at that time, they were shown Sussex County, Albemarle > Parish living on the same land, and without having moved physically from > 1719. > > My hope is that someone on this list knows of records of the Rev. John > Cargill or of Southwark Parish...letters, records of baptisms, marriages, > Vestry book,? In checking a number of years ago for the above, I was told > by the LVA that there were no records , but with other missing records > found in the last few years, I was hoping the Southwark & Cargill records > might be one of those. The Bath Parish Register of Dinwiddie County, by > William Lindsay Hopkins, p. 31: Marriages-- Oct 9, 1828 Marriages: > Banjamin Fillyche to Miss Margaret B. Cargill at Mr. John Cargill's, Sussex > Co. So the Cargill name (same family?) was still in the area, Sussex, as > late as 1828.. > > Thank you for taking the time to consider this. I will greatly appreciate > ANY informaiton you could add either in the form of records, or advice as to > where to go from here (other than to "give up". :-). > Thanks again, > Sarah Withers Keesee > lydiap@salisbury.net > > >

Here is a wonderful historical site that has transcribed documents. Many are from Virginia. Judy Penrod Purcell Duncanville, TX http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/usa.htm

In a message dated 5/12/01 11:57:13 AM, dhrenaud@midwest.net writes: << <.4. Richard Jones. Named in will of Robert Jones who left him 1000 acres in Halifax County, VA. I only have an abstract of the will of Robert Jones d 1771 but it reads "Robert Jones, son of brother Richard Jones, 1000 acres of land in Halifax Co." I don't see mention of his leaving land to Richard his brother. >> Dorothy, you are right. I only have the abstract too, and that is what is says, to Robert Jones son of Richard Jones, etc. Thanks for the correction. Craig

> In the account below Craig writes: > > <.4. Richard Jones. Named in will of Robert Jones who left him 1000 acres in Halifax County, VA. > > I only have an abstract of the will of Robert Jones d 1771 but it reads "Robert Jones, son of brother Richard Jones, 1000 acres of land in Halifax Co." I don't see mention of his leaving land to Richard his brother. Dorothy, This is my mistake and thank you for pointing it out. Robert did indeed leave his nephew Robert son of Richard the land in Halifax Co.. Ron Jones

In the account below Craig writes: <.4. Richard Jones. Named in will of Robert Jones who left him 1000 acres in Halifax County, VA. I only have an abstract of the will of Robert Jones d 1771 but it reads "Robert Jones, son of brother Richard Jones, 1000 acres of land in Halifax Co." I don't see mention of his leaving land to Richard his brother. Dorothy > > In a message dated 5/11/01 8:13:33 PM, RON JONES writes: > > << Hi Malinda, > > > The 5 JONES brothers we spoke of were located in Meckenburg & Halifax Co., > > VA and Granville Co., NC and proved by Robert's will of 1771. They are all > > b. in the 1700 -1720 timeframe. >> > > And perhaps we should name these five brothers again: > > 1. Robert Jones, who d. 1771 mentioned above, naming brothers John, James, > Richard and Ambrose. As a resident of St. Mary's Parish County, Caroline > County, VA, he bought 640 acres of land in Granville County, NC from James > and Sarah Hembree in 1752, on Aaron's Creek. He may be the same Robert Jones > who married Mary Jordan in Mecklenburg County, VA in 1756. His will was > written and proved in Mecklenburg County, VA in 1771. It did not name a wife > or any children. In addition to his four brothers, he named (neice?) Amelia > Vaughan and nephews James and Edmund Jones, sons of brother James Jones. He > left his land on Aaron's creek to nephew James Jones and brother Ambrose > Jones. > > 2. John Jones. He died in Mecklenburg County, VA in 1791. His will names > sons Benjamin, John and James, and daughters Amelia Vaughn, Ann Blanks, > Frances Wilkins, Philadelphia Yancey (she had m. 1: Francis Griffin), and > grandchildren Sarah and Frances Griffin, and grandsons John and Joseph Blanks. > > 3. James Jones. Perhaps the James Jones who died in Mecklenburg Co., VA in > 1773, and who, with wife Elizabeth, made a deed in 1771 to Abram Mitchell. > Not proved. He had at least two sons, Edmond and James, who are named in the > will of Robert Jones, above. > > 4. Richard Jones. Named in will of Robert Jones who left him 1000 acres in > Halifax County, VA. > > 5. Ambrose Jones, m. Catherine (probably Catherine Collins) around 1740, > probably in Caroline Co., VA. He purchased his nephews share of the land on > Aaron's Creek in 1771, and left a will in Granville County, NC in 1792, > naming children James, Stephen, Ambrose (b. 23 JAN 1748), Gabriel, Reubin, > Elizabeth Winfree (wife of James Winfree), Ann Sandford (wife of Robert > Sandford), Phebe Gregory (wife of Thomas Gregory and widow of Benjamin > Hawkins), and Peggy Davie (wife of William Davie). Will also names a > grandson John BRASSIE. Wife Catherine died in 1799 and her will and estate > file supply additional information. > > Hope this helps clarify this particular Jones scorecard. > > Craig > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > USGenWeb Archives Digital Maps Project > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/maps/ > > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp > > >

> I appreciate very much your information on LVA. One sentence I do not understand: > > <<It appears to be old microfilm, some have dates back in the 1950s, but I never complained! :-))>> Hi Glen, This was a date stamp on the box itself and I really do not know what it indicated; maybe date initially received. I took it only as a measure of how long the microfilm itself had been around. It had nothing to do with the contents. Just a caution not to expect great quality, but some of it was very good. Ron

Hello, I have been looking for information about an African American family that resided in Danville around 1890s-1900. I've recently started looking into my family's history, so I'm very new to genealogy. So far, I've come up with nothing, maybe because I have been looking in the wrong places. As in any city during that era, I would imagine that African Americans, and whites lived in separate parts of Danville. If this is true, can someone give me information about Danville and its African American community during the era mentioned? Any help at all would be appreciated. Thankyou, Donna M. Muse

In a message dated 5/11/01 8:13:33 PM, RON JONES writes: << Hi Malinda, The 5 JONES brothers we spoke of were located in Meckenburg & Halifax Co., VA and Granville Co., NC and proved by Robert's will of 1771. They are all b. in the 1700 -1720 timeframe. >> And perhaps we should name these five brothers again: 1. Robert Jones, who d. 1771 mentioned above, naming brothers John, James, Richard and Ambrose. As a resident of St. Mary's Parish County, Caroline County, VA, he bought 640 acres of land in Granville County, NC from James and Sarah Hembree in 1752, on Aaron's Creek. He may be the same Robert Jones who married Mary Jordan in Mecklenburg County, VA in 1756. His will was written and proved in Mecklenburg County, VA in 1771. It did not name a wife or any children. In addition to his four brothers, he named (neice?) Amelia Vaughan and nephews James and Edmund Jones, sons of brother James Jones. He left his land on Aaron's creek to nephew James Jones and brother Ambrose Jones. 2. John Jones. He died in Mecklenburg County, VA in 1791. His will names sons Benjamin, John and James, and daughters Amelia Vaughn, Ann Blanks, Frances Wilkins, Philadelphia Yancey (she had m. 1: Francis Griffin), and grandchildren Sarah and Frances Griffin, and grandsons John and Joseph Blanks. 3. James Jones. Perhaps the James Jones who died in Mecklenburg Co., VA in 1773, and who, with wife Elizabeth, made a deed in 1771 to Abram Mitchell. Not proved. He had at least two sons, Edmond and James, who are named in the will of Robert Jones, above. 4. Richard Jones. Named in will of Robert Jones who left him 1000 acres in Halifax County, VA. 5. Ambrose Jones, m. Catherine (probably Catherine Collins) around 1740, probably in Caroline Co., VA. He purchased his nephews share of the land on Aaron's Creek in 1771, and left a will in Granville County, NC in 1792, naming children James, Stephen, Ambrose (b. 23 JAN 1748), Gabriel, Reubin, Elizabeth Winfree (wife of James Winfree), Ann Sandford (wife of Robert Sandford), Phebe Gregory (wife of Thomas Gregory and widow of Benjamin Hawkins), and Peggy Davie (wife of William Davie). Will also names a grandson John BRASSIE. Wife Catherine died in 1799 and her will and estate file supply additional information. Hope this helps clarify this particular Jones scorecard. Craig