Paul, I would be interested in the source for your statements. What you said was certainly true of the frontier. However, for most of the 18th Century, VA invested time and money on internal improvements primarily to facilitate the tobacco trade. For example by 1732: ".....Caroline's magistrates went doggedly ahead with a road building program to unite the three parishes which formed their county and to furnish the planters with overland routes to transport their tobacco to Tidewater. Public thoroughfares fell into three classes: bridle paths for riders on horseback, cart roads for horse-drawn vehicles, and rolling roads for rolling hogsheads packed with tobacco, usually propelled by oxen hitched to an axle driven through the center. Rolling roads were the most costly to build, since causeways had to be constructed across marshes and bridges over streams to keep the tobacco dry in transit" Colonial Caroline by T.E. Campbell The county governments in VA and NC built and maintained roads. The workers were the people who lived near the roads, who were ordered to build and maintain them. Contractors built the bridges. Virginia's system of tobacco warehouses could not have functioned with simple bridle paths. One of the early problems with NC was that they decided to build roads that only led to waterways. Thus people could travel locally, but not long distances very easily. Is there a source for the statement that there were only four or five vehicles with more than 2 wheels in NC before the Revolution? It is a bit incredible. The military would have had to have wagons to carry on operations. How did they carry on trade? How did the furniture and other goods shipped from England get from the ships to the interior plantations? They couldn't do it very efficiently with carts. What happened to the wagons that the Scots-Irish and Germans used to get to the Carolinas as in this description: "In the last sixteen years of the colonial era, southbound traffic along the Great Philadelphia Wagon Road was numbered in tens of thousands; it was the most heavily traveled road in all America and must have had more vehicles jolting along its rough and tortuous way than all other main roads put together." Carl Bridenbaugh.

Hi, Kathy. Burn, indeed they did, and then had animal drives over the cleared area, as did many tribes and groups, including the Wyandots and Delawares in OH and MI. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "wawbrey" <wawbrey@msn.com> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Re: Travel and forests > I live in the Willamette Valley in Oregon, and Native Indians burned the > valley every year to keep the hunting good. Only trees along rivers and on > some of the buttes weren't burned. I'm sure these weren't the only tribes > that did that. Kathy Awbrey in Pleasant hill, OR > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Ottinger" <johnc@terracom.net> > To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 11:11 PM > Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Re: Travel and forests > > > > Paul Drake wrote: > > > > > > > We should remember that virtually all of the travel during the 17th- and > 18th-centuries was through deep forests, > > > such as in VA/NC/SC/KY, etc., etc. Indeed, it was said that a squirrel > could have travelled from the Atlantic to the > > > Mississippi and never touched the ground. The trees were EVERYWHERE, > giant, and completely blanketed and > > > canopied over the land, as did all other vegetation, > > > > <<snipped>> > > > > A good portion of the Virginia and North Carolina piedmont was fairly open > country. Robert Ramsey, > > in Carolina Cradle, says > > > > That section of the Granville District lying between the Yadkin and > Catawba rivers consisted of a > > fertile, well-watered,virtually treeless meadow land. John Lawson left the > following interesting > > account of the territory embraced within what was to become Rowan County: > > > > We traveled this day about twenty-five miles over pleasant savanna ground, > high and dry, having very > > few trees upon it, and those standing at a great distance.... > > > > Ramsey continues: > > > > Jethro Rumple (an early settler) recorded the statement of a resident of > Rowan to the effect that > > the region was destitute of forest and that one 18th century settler was > obliged to haul the logs > > for his house more than a mile. Another inhabitant told Rumpl that he > could remember when the land > > between Third and Fourth creeks was open prairie in which wild deer > mingled with the horses and > > cattle as they grazed. > > > > Julia Davis, in The Shenandoah, wrote that John Lederer passed through > Manassas Gap in the Blue > > Ridge in 1670 and "descended into broad savannas, flowery meads where > herds of red deer were > > feeding. The grass which sprang from the limestone soil was so high they > could tie it across their > > saddles. Since the Indians burned their land over every autumn to make > their game preserve, it was > > only lightly wooded with occasional groves of oak or maple." > > > > > > John Ottinger > > > > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > > VAGenWeb > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~vagenweb > > > > > > ============================== > > Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! > > http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2 > > > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > USGenWeb Archives Census Project > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/census/ > > > ============================== > Ancestry.com Genealogical Databases > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist2.asp > Search over 2500 databases with one easy query! >

Hi Carl and all. The source is the well known writer and genealogist, Mr. Alan Watson, "Edgecombe County (NC)...a Brief History" (NC Dept. of Cultural Resources, Div. of Archives and History, 1979); pp. 15,16. It is well done and was my source for those and numerous other facts concerning 1690-1775 NC/ VA. If available, I surely would advise that all with interest in the Tidewater of NC and VA gain a copy. I would suggest that you are surely correct that avenues to transport tobacco and ships stores (tar, pine, etc.) to wharfs, warehouses and markets and narrow cart trails to leading waterways were well known, however the search for brides/lovers was, more often than not, along bridle trails on foot or on a plow horse or mule. I think we are all correct as far as we went, and I have enjoyed these exchanges. I might add that Watson estinmates that there were but a coupole dozen bridges in 1750. Paul

I hope this fits in with our discussion about how far and fast a person can go during colonial times. [Also I read somewhere that William the Conqueror quickly planted his defensive castles 33 (-ish) miles apart around London and equidistant from London--"as fast as a horse can travel in a day."] Here are entries from Francis Asbury's Journal written during the making of his rounds as a Methodist circuit rider. He was 42 years old. (Born in England in 1745; but lived in America from 1771 until his death in 1816.) South Carolina Fri. Mar. 30, 1787. I left the city, and rode thirty miles, although my horse had been injured by over-feeding. Next day I rode forty miles through the rain, and begged a lodging with Doctor W. Sun. April 1. We came to Santee Ferry, and there was such an overflowing of water in our route that we had to swim upon our horses several times: my horse performed so well that I was not wet much higher than my knees: that day we rode thirty miles, and the next day fifty miles and came to Moore's (near Wedgefield). Wed. 4. At Camden Fri., 6. Rode forty miles to preaching at Jackson's; and then to brother Pace's. North Carolina Sat. and Sun. 7, 8. Attended Anson quarterly meeting, in North Carolina... From Saturday to Saturday, I have ridden about three hundred miles and have preached only about half the time. O may the Lord seal and water his own word, that all this toil of man and beast be not in vain! Tues. 10. The Doctor and myself preached to a few simple people at W.'s, I hope not in vain. At our next meeting we had many hearers. We have scarcely time to eat or sleep. Thurs. 12. I preached at Salisbury. Afterward rode to Huggins's, where we had many hearers, and a melting among the people. Good Friday 13. I felt much led out at Caton's. Thence to M'Knight's chapel (Yadkin, now Forsyth Co.) where we found a living people. Sat. 14. We hasted to C----y church, where we had many people; after riding twenty-two miles, we had another meeting about six o'clock; and about midnight got to bed. Sun. 15. Rose about six o'clock, and went to Newman's church, where the Doctor and myself both preached; the people were rather wild, and we were unwell. I came to Arnat's about eight o'clock, having ridden forty miles; the Doctor went by Dick's ferry, and did not get in until near midnight. Virginia Mon. 16. Rode to Jeremiah White's (Pittsylvania Co.) and on Tuesday, about fifty miles to Page Mann's in Charlotte County, Virginia. Wednesday, 18. Rode to Rough Creek. On Thursday, the 19th our conference began at William White's (Charlotte Co.). We had much preaching, morning, noon and night and some souls were converted to God. Some said there were three thousand people to hear; it was a solemn, weighty time.

The Virginia Historical Society is a wonderful place in which to do research. However, the collection to which you refer probably does not pertain strictly to your family. The most efficient way for you to obtain info, I would think, based on my personal experience with other respositories, is to obtain the services of a professional researcher who is familiar with the policies and research procedures at VA Hist Soc (a private organization). For instance, unless one is a member, there is a daily admission charge. How do you obtain the name of a professional who lives in or around Richmond, VA? In the past, the Virginia State Library has had a printed list of such researchers. Perhaps the VA Hist Soc has a list also. You might want to search the National Genealogical Society's website for hints about how to engage the services of a professional. Either that, or CyndisList. My experience at the VA Hist Soc, the repository you contacted, is that some of their collections are HUGE. No doubt it will take a professional to delve into the contents of these collections. The VA His Soc has an excellent, very detailed, card catalog, with many cross references. The experienced professional would know how to use that catalog (we hope) and pull out the few papers which you may need. As an example--I wanted a few papers from the collection of a professional genealogist who had done work in colonial Northern Neck Virginia. Because of the good cataloging system they have, I was readily able to put my hands on the few papers I needed. Another collection which I had hoped to tackle (I had only two full days of research time) was brought out on a cart--several boxes (banker type boxes) full of this collection. You can see how a staff member, whose main job is to preserve and catalog, would NOT have time to pull out the particular documents which pertain to your family or families. This is not what he/she was hired for. The professional, whom you would have to pay probably by the hour, for a fixed minimum amount, could photocopy a few pages at a time for you. There is a daily limit, and then the cost expands beyond a number of copies. I wanted a copy of an oversized map, and the staff was helpful in photocopying it in sections, but my photocopying bill was rather large. In the past, when I have hired professionals, for the most part, I have been quite satisfied with the results. BUT--warning, you have to provide pedigree charts, family group sheets (but not too many) and be quite SPECIFIC in what you need, or you could be charged hundreds of dollars. I hope this is of some slight help to you. Consider the cost of a trip to Richmond from Alaska, the cost of a hotel room and meals, and transportation while in Richmond. The VA Hist Soc is not in the downtown area. E.W.Wallace

I live in the Willamette Valley in Oregon, and Native Indians burned the valley every year to keep the hunting good. Only trees along rivers and on some of the buttes weren't burned. I'm sure these weren't the only tribes that did that. Kathy Awbrey in Pleasant hill, OR ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ottinger" <johnc@terracom.net> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 11:11 PM Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Re: Travel and forests > Paul Drake wrote: > > > > We should remember that virtually all of the travel during the 17th- and 18th-centuries was through deep forests, > > such as in VA/NC/SC/KY, etc., etc. Indeed, it was said that a squirrel could have travelled from the Atlantic to the > > Mississippi and never touched the ground. The trees were EVERYWHERE, giant, and completely blanketed and > > canopied over the land, as did all other vegetation, > > <<snipped>> > > A good portion of the Virginia and North Carolina piedmont was fairly open country. Robert Ramsey, > in Carolina Cradle, says > > That section of the Granville District lying between the Yadkin and Catawba rivers consisted of a > fertile, well-watered,virtually treeless meadow land. John Lawson left the following interesting > account of the territory embraced within what was to become Rowan County: > > We traveled this day about twenty-five miles over pleasant savanna ground, high and dry, having very > few trees upon it, and those standing at a great distance.... > > Ramsey continues: > > Jethro Rumple (an early settler) recorded the statement of a resident of Rowan to the effect that > the region was destitute of forest and that one 18th century settler was obliged to haul the logs > for his house more than a mile. Another inhabitant told Rumpl that he could remember when the land > between Third and Fourth creeks was open prairie in which wild deer mingled with the horses and > cattle as they grazed. > > Julia Davis, in The Shenandoah, wrote that John Lederer passed through Manassas Gap in the Blue > Ridge in 1670 and "descended into broad savannas, flowery meads where herds of red deer were > feeding. The grass which sprang from the limestone soil was so high they could tie it across their > saddles. Since the Indians burned their land over every autumn to make their game preserve, it was > only lightly wooded with occasional groves of oak or maple." > > > John Ottinger > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > VAGenWeb > http://www.rootsweb.com/~vagenweb > > > ============================== > Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! > http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2 >

Sorry...I meant would NOT charge you much.

Cara...a professional genealogist probably would charge you much to copy your manuscript. Look up one in the VA section of Cyndi's List. You can e-mail and ask them what they charge for their services. Cheaper than going there to do it yourself.

I recently requested a copy of some manuscripts through the Virginia Historical Society. The gentleman handling my request was VERY curteous and helpful. I was able to submit my request to him via email, which was wonderfully refreshing. In response to my email request, the library assistant was able to tell me whether or not the copies I was requesting were available for copying and how much the copies would cost. They have a copy of a family Bible that's in my direct line. I have to send him a check before he'll send me the copies, but being able to submit my request via email allowed me to speed up the process quite a bit. Unfortunately, there was a request that he could not fill because they "...are unable to photocopy large manuscript collections or entire published works...". The manuscripts I'm interested in are The Gregory Family Papers. It's at least 200 or 300 pieces of paper and some of it is oversized. I'm wondering if anyone else has run into this problem. And I'm wondering if there are any suggestions for how I can get a copy of these manuscripts. Or even the parts of it that partain to my direct line. I'm a direct descendant of Richard and Agnes West Gregory and their son (or maybe grandson) Roger Gregory who married Mary Cole Claiborne and I'm sure these manuscripts hold a wealth of information about my ancestors and their ancestors. I'm not sure, but it seems to me that most of the manuscripts in this collection will probably partain directly to my line. So gaining a copy of the entire collection would be idea, but am I expecting too much? Any help? -- Cara (Gregory) Showers Anchorage, Alaska cara@dcdesign.com

Also consider taking tobacco to nearest point of sale. The whole family might go with their father, thus another way to meet perspective spouse. Court days were also very popular. Families would "go to town" for that sort of "entertainment". Some churches had meetings/camps which included a number of congregations from a bit further away. They often camped for a week at a time, worshipping and singing. Bebe in NC

In the "Journal of George Fox", he writes: "Afater this our way to carolin grew worse, being much of it plashy, and pretty full of great bogs and swamps; so we wer3e commonly wet to the knees..." And later "...in CAROLINA; here we left our horses, overwearied with travel. From hence we went down the creek in a canoe, to Macocomocock (now Chowan) River...." "...Then passing down the river ROANOKE in a canoe, we went down the bay CONEY-HOE, and came tio a captain's house, who was very loving, and lent us his boat, for we were much wet in the canoe, the waater splashing in upon us. With this boat we went to the governor's house (note: my ancestor); but the water in some places was so shallow that the boat being laden, could not swim; so we were fain to put off our shoes and stockings, and wade through thge water some distaance. The governor, with his wife, received us lovingly....." "...We tarried at the governor's that night; and next morning he very courteously walked with us about two miles through the woods, to a place whither he had sent our boat about to meet us. Taking leave of him, we entered our boat and went that day about thirty miles to Joseph Scott's......"

Though I did not so intend, my message re the travel through the forests of the 17th- and 18th-centuries came off as chiding or critical of the other posts concerning horse travel. To those folks, especially Mary, I apologize and am truly interested in any comparisons concerning early movements in the Plains and those in the dense forests of most of the Eastern states. Paul

Paul Drake wrote: > We should remember that virtually all of the travel during the 17th- and 18th-centuries was through deep forests, > such as in VA/NC/SC/KY, etc., etc. Indeed, it was said that a squirrel could have travelled from the Atlantic to the > Mississippi and never touched the ground. The trees were EVERYWHERE, giant, and completely blanketed and > canopied over the land, as did all other vegetation, <<snipped>> A good portion of the Virginia and North Carolina piedmont was fairly open country. Robert Ramsey, in Carolina Cradle, says That section of the Granville District lying between the Yadkin and Catawba rivers consisted of a fertile, well-watered,virtually treeless meadow land. John Lawson left the following interesting account of the territory embraced within what was to become Rowan County: We traveled this day about twenty-five miles over pleasant savanna ground, high and dry, having very few trees upon it, and those standing at a great distance.... Ramsey continues: Jethro Rumple (an early settler) recorded the statement of a resident of Rowan to the effect that the region was destitute of forest and that one 18th century settler was obliged to haul the logs for his house more than a mile. Another inhabitant told Rumpl that he could remember when the land between Third and Fourth creeks was open prairie in which wild deer mingled with the horses and cattle as they grazed. Julia Davis, in The Shenandoah, wrote that John Lederer passed through Manassas Gap in the Blue Ridge in 1670 and "descended into broad savannas, flowery meads where herds of red deer were feeding. The grass which sprang from the limestone soil was so high they could tie it across their saddles. Since the Indians burned their land over every autumn to make their game preserve, it was only lightly wooded with occasional groves of oak or maple." John Ottinger

Doug Said: >Ran to see my girl most nights. Twelve miles each way. It took about two hours each way. Walked 100 paces and ran a hundred. Some nights I trotted<< Well...... I was working third shift in the Cotton Mills in Danville, Va. when I was courtin' a girl who lived Twelve Miles out of town... I didn't have a car so I would hitchhike or ride the bus out to her house then I would catch a bus to my job at eleven at night.. One night I lingered a bit too long and missed the bus.. so I thought I would get out on the road and catch a ride into Danville.. Very few cars came by and none stopped... so I started walking.. thinking surely I would get a ride shortly.. still No Ride.. I walked...and walked..until I got sleepy and laid down in a yard along the road.. closed my eyes a few minutes and started walking again.... everything was very quiet.. and I heard the tinkling of glass over in the woods.. I knew it must be someone loading whiskey.. and I knew moonshiners didn't like anyone around when they were involved in such activities... so I walked faster for a spell... finally, about daylight, I got to a bus stop in Danville.. I caught a bus and rode right on past the mill where I worked.. it was too late to go to work.... so I went on home and went to bed.. That was the longest Twelve Miles I have ever traveled.. But I married that girl too!! Another True story...... G. Lee Hearl Authentic Appalachian Storyteller Abingdon, Va.

Ran to see my girl most nights. Twelve miles each way. It took about two hours each way. Walked 100 paces and ran a hundred. Some nights I trotted all the way . I guess that would be called jogging today. Needless to say I had a lot of excuses for not having my homework done on school nights. I was the county track star my senior year in high school. Don't know whether I could have but I'd have been willing to run twice that far. She married me too, I guess its hard for a girl to refuse a guy with that much energy. Doug

This isn't Va. hills but its buggies and courting. E-Mail Dougpol1@oasisonline.com Passing Wind By Douglas G. Pollard Sr. "Now, young fellow, my daughter will soon be descending those stairs so what I have to say will be said quickly. My daughter's a lady. Her mother and I have sheltered her from the vulgarities of life. She is innocent and without experience. Do you understand my meaning"? "Yes I"... I bent slightly as my intestines growled and I grabbed my stomach. Looking at me sympathetically, Mr. Johnson said, "There's an out house just down that hallway and through that door. "Thank you, Sir," I replied, turning and heading down the hall. "Oh," I said, turning back. I do understand, sir, about Mary I mean." "Fine. Your father and I were the closest of friends at the Citidel. I know your father to be a gentleman and I'm sure he'd stand for no less from you." As if for emphasis, he reached in a drawer and pulled out the biggest hog leg I ever saw. He handed me the old muzzle loading pistol saying, "You and Mary ought not to travel through these Carolina low lands without a weapon. These piney woods are inhabited by escaped convicts, catamounts, bears, turpentine workers and all manner of unsavory characters." I stood hefting the gun trying to figure out what the heck to do with it and feeling very awkward. "Poke that down in your britches," he said, pointing to the pistol. I sucked in my stomach and pushed the monstrous weapon under my belt as ordered, thanking God for it's long barrel. If it went off it would only blow my leg off. In that very moment I forgot my mission. Mary descended the grand stairway even more beautiful than she had been at the Virginia Governors Ball where we met. My heart quickened even as my knees trembled and I, nearly overcome by my feelings of love, stood transfixed. Mary moved regally, dressed in a lace overlaid, yellow outfit complete with a veiled hat, which altogether, emphasized her tiny figure. Her mother, right behind her, patted Mary's hair clucking adoringly. They giggled like sisters at some private joke, drowning out the roaring and growls emanating from my abdomen. Hands on hips and fingers pressing into my stomach I stood, looking, by some accounts, as if I might spin off in a pirouette at any moment. "Why, John Pucket, I swannee, your face is absolutely vivid. Are you ill?" Mrs. Johnson inquired, all the while studying my rather peculiar stance. "Ugh, ah, no ma'am, I'm fine, just a little warm is all," I answered, doing my best not to gyrate in some unmanly manner. After a few terrifying minutes of conversation we were seated in my buggy and headed to the county social. Old Dolly's hooves pounded the unyielding roadway. Her ears turned to and fro assailed by the crashing and groaning of iron tired wheels smashing over the oyster shell road. The sounds, loud as they were, instantly disappeared into the surrounding live oaks that lined the road. Hanging silver green moss soaked up noises that would announce our presence to the surrounding forest. We did not talk. To shout above the noises our buggy made would be to further broadcast our presence. I squirmed as my innards churned and groaned. Not far away a bull gator bellowed and thrashed in the black water in pursuit of some hapless prey. At the same time, a frightened heron squawked flapping across the road under my horse's nose. Dolly shied, whinnied, then bolted into a full gallop. Flying hooves showered oyster shell over the dash and in our laps. There it was again; a cramp bent me over. By now I was reduced to a withered, drawn little man. Hitting a bump, we left the seats. Mary screamed, pressing herself far back into the corner of her seat while I, recovering, reared back on the reins. "Grab the gun," I yelled as her father's old forty-four-caliber pistol slid toward the edge of the seat between us. She took the huge side arm in both hands as her bonnet left her head. Mary held the gun eyeing its site all around and across Dolly's head, as we charged on at break neck speed. "Don't shoot," I begged, wrestling the weapon from her. With one hand on the gun the other roughly sawing the reins back and fourth, I managed to further terrify Dolly. A gentling of the reins and loving words mattered not at all. Thoroughly frightened by now, she dashed head long in the only direction possible, straight down the road. Dolly pounded on toward an upcoming bridge across the Waccamaw River. Now, she had one failing that I was sure would work to our advantage. Dolly would not cross a bridge unless I got out and led her. We came to a stop. The old horse stamped nervously, her eyes wild and frightened. I eased myself down, pistol in hand walking out in front of Dolly, thighs clinched tight together. I'll crack one and blame it on Dolly, I thought. Mary jumped down and ran to walk beside me, ending any chance to blame my horse. Then I spied my salvation. An alligator swam toward us, only his eyes above the water. I raised the pistol and shouted, "Want to see me shoot that gator?" Not waiting for an objection, I jerked the gun up, pulled the trigger and broke wind. There was a loud click and a squeal not unlike the sound of a pig caught in a fence. Mary's eyes opened wide, hands covered her face, she turned away doubled over in screaming hilarious laughter. The old pistol had misfired, paying silent tribute to my red-faced flatulence. The End

We should remember that virtually all of the travel during the 17th- and 18th-centuries was through deep forests, such as in VA/NC/SC/KY, etc., etc. Indeed, it was said that a squirrel could have travelled from the Atlantic to the Mississippi and never touched the ground. The trees were EVERYWHERE, giant, and completely blanketed and canopied over the land, as did all other vegetation, except in the IMMEDIATE area of the settlements and farms, and there were very few bridges, fords being the only alternative. Then too there were almost NO roads, as we know those, other than "post" roads, nor were there governments to maintain such even where they did exist. Bridle, buffalo, and Indian trails alone snaked off through the forests, among the farms, to the fords, and to the county seats. The land was only sparsely populated (300,000+- non-Indians on this entire land in 1700, and 3,000,000+- when the Rev. began). There were NO carriages nor roads to carry such, and only the! wealthy (there was virtually no middle class) had horses other than those usually single horses or mules used for farm work and for riding slowly to town when required. In fact, it is probable that there were but 4 or 5 vehicles of more than 2 wheels in all of NC when the Rev. began. Most men walked to everywhere in pairs during the daytime and when required to travel at night worried all the way about the wild animals - bears, cougars, "painters" and spiders and snakes - and trail robbers and thieves were not infrequent. Woman did NOT go out at night without men in their company. Perhaps most of all, all ordinary men who were not wealthy and were of dateable age had farm/home chores and duties daily - every morning and night - and except on rare occasions they went nowhere that took more than an hour or two of travel one way, not even to spark and court a fair damsel or to go to church. The writings are many that speak of the difficulty of travelling more than 3 miles! one way for any away-from-home venture by the ordinary citizen. So, while pretty (and not-so-pretty, as well) young women (and older ones, as well) dominated the thoughts of virtually all men then (just as now), those would be beaus travelled but very little, except to attend the neighborhood church, go to a neighboring farm, or to attend the few fairs and court days. I would be interested in the views of you folks knowledgeable about horses concerning the nature and difficulties of travel under those conditions; it was not like now, except on the Great Plains and in the SW. Thanks. Paul

I used to do competetive trail riding and our horses, at a brisk trot could cover 25 miles in 4 hours, 15 minutes. They were in TOP condition, which horses of old were also usually in top condition. BUT I doubt very much that a young man would travel 25 miles to court a girl-friend. Most of them courted within 3-5 miles from his home. Church and social activities were also a great meeting place and most of the ladies at church lived close. Those were the days when most families attended church together. marykell

In a message dated 05/13/2001 12:09:06 PM Central Daylight Time, glh@naxs.com writes: > [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Buggies and Courting: Buggy riders in Florida didn't encounter many hills, but they had their own peculiar hazards. An old man was returning home late one cloudy, moonless night when his horse suddenly stopped. No amount of coaxing or whipping could make the horse take one more step. Finally, the man got out of the buggy, took hold of the harness, and tried pulling the horse along the road. He promptly fell into a sink hole. They found them the next morning, the old man in the bottom of the hole, only slightly worse for wear, and the horse standing, patiently waiting. Joyce

Jim & All: My grandpa bought a new buggy about the time my dads' oldest brother started courting.. naturally the young man wanted to use the new buggy to impress the girls, just as boys want fancy cars to day to make impressions.. He was finally granted permission to use it and was very excited about it..but in order to get to where the girls lived he had to travel a dirt and gravel road out of the river hills where he lived... up by the water falls along the way.. He went out and showed off the new buggy and took his girl for a ride but stayed much later than he should have...so..rushing back home...in the dark of night.. the horse rounded a sharp curve.. near a water fall..and the buggy, with my uncle, went over..into the creek.. The New buggy was demolished.. from then on he walked or rode a horse and therefore married a girl who lived much closer to where he lived! A few years after that grandpa was found in Rattle Creek, about frozen to death, near the wreckage of another buggy, but that's another story.... Another True Appalachian Story... Not so good maybe, but True! G. Lee Hearl Authentic Appalachian Storyteller Abingdon, Va.