I thought that one of the roles of the List Administrator was to monitor the list and put a stop to exchanges such as these by removing the offending party from the list. Craig, are you not getting the message here. Folks subscribe to these lists to exchange POSITIVE words and thoughts and to help each other with genealogical matters. Messages from you like the two below have less than zero value and consume valuable time and space with GARBAGE that has nothing to do with genealogy. In short, they have no place on this list. Of course Paul and Margaret are going to defend each other, like any friends would do. The two of them have worked closely together to publish books. Because of my high regard for both Paul and Margaret, their tremendous individual and collective knowledge, and their endless willingness to help others, I have grown very fond of them without ever personally meeting either. I have purchased two of their books which are excellent works. I am quite sure that there are many people on this list that feel the same as I do. I would ask Margaret to plead with Paul to return to the list. I am quite saddened to learn of his unsubscribing. On the other hand, the obvious solution for the prevention of any further such exchanges would be for the list administrator to remove you, Craig, from this list and I am hereby making that formal request of the list administrator. A simpler alternative, however, would be for you to voluntarily unsubscribe yourself. One last thing, Craig. Don't bother to reply to this message because you will be wasting your time writing something that will not be read. I, for one, DO know how to use the delete key and in the future, any message arriving in my mailbox with your name attached will indeed get the automatic delete. Moreover, I would like to lobby for all other members of this list to do the same. Now, I must offer my sincerest apologies to the rest of the list for dragging on this ridiculous exchange for one more round. I am usually very tolerant and have a high level of patience, but I finally popped my cork on this latest of many verbal assaults. Best regards to everyone and lets get back to genealogy. Jeff Smith << last two messages from Craig copied below >> "Paul can speak for himself, can't he Margaret? Or is this Margaret speaking for Paul? I know you (plural) say you won't be "questioned", but maybe one of you can answer the following: 1. At what firm has Paul ever practiced law? and when? 2. Where and to whom has he lectured on genealogy, and on what topic? 3. What articles has he authored on genealogy, when were they published and and who published them? Craig Kilby" "Remember, Paul has not said he unsubscribed or quit the list. Margaret said that. So send your emails to Margaret. And Paul said Margaret would not be "tested" on her post on religion. So if you want to question Margaret, send an email to Paul. I think they are the same person, a split personality. Maybe we can hear from him/her seperately and get this sorted out? Craig"

on 6/1/01 11:46 PM, Jeff Smith at jeffm.smith@verizon.net wrote: > One last thing, Craig. Don't bother to reply to this message because > you will be wasting your time writing something that will not be read. Hey that's great Jeff. Flame away and then say you won't read a response. I did not not start this flame. And Paul did not say he resigned from the list. READ WHAT HAPPENED. MARGARET said all of these things. So turn your gas jets on the source of the fire, not on me. And BTW, Paul Drake is fictional character from the Perry Mason show. And the Paul Drake on this list has never practiced law in the state of Virginia. ASK HIM. Craig

Paul, Do come back. There are those of us who appreciate and are grateful for all the input you and Margaret contribute. Don't let one person cause us to be losers for that is what we will be without your input. Just think how more enlightened we will become with your help. We need more like you who give of thier knowledge and time to help others and ask nothing in return. This web site needs your help; don't leave. Joan in St. Louis

PLEASE! STOP THIS BICKERING! This List is for Geanology and History, let's get back on Subject! G. Lee Hearl Authentic Appalachian Storyteller Abingdon, Va.

I personally feel that an appology is in order - to Paul and to the list. This kind of behavior is inexcusable.

I have enjoyed the genealogy/history lessons on various subjects. This list has painted wonderful pictures of the 1600 - early 1900's. Intelligent and informative. This list has helped to look at the good and the bad in a different light. Politics, Religion and Narrow minded people don't mix. This is the wrong forum. Yes Paul and Margaret you were baited and apologies are in order. Quan Arnett-Pruitt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frances Cullom Harper" <fharper@triad.rr.com> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 9:48 PM Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] flames > I personally feel that an appology is in order - to Paul and to the list. > This kind of behavior is inexcusable. > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > USGenWeb Archives Census Project > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/census/ > > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp >

Thanks to all who responded to my request about the status of the Southside Virginian. For whatever reasons are behind the discontinuance of publication, I hope that someday it is revived. The few issues that I have seen at my local library contain excellent material. Again, thanks for your time. Jeff Smith Fairfax, VA

on 6/1/01 9:25 PM, Mary Margaret Selig-Trahan at mmst@classicnet.net wrote: > Please Paul - do not do this. Remember, Paul has not said he unsubscribed or quit the list. Margaret said that. So send your emails to Margaret. And Paul said Margaret would not be "tested" on her post on religion. So if you want to question Margaret, send an email to Paul. I think they are the same person, a split personality. Maybe we can hear from him/her seperately and get this sorted out? Craig

poppy cock babies do not bun in hell if they are not baptised I was Catholic caviness@conninc.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Margaret Driskill <mdriskill@worldnet.att.net> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 11:11 AM Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Baptism > Dear Southsiders, > > I will not enter into a discussion about religion, however, Catholics do NOT > Baptize babies because they will 'burn in hell' if they die without Baptism. > > Margaret > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > VAGenWeb > http://www.rootsweb.com/~vagenweb > > > ============================== > Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & Celebrate > your heritage! > http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog > >

our reform presbyterian also baptises babies probably episcopalian and I know Lutherans probably as many faiths do as don't caviness@conninc.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Mary Margaret Selig-Trahan <mmst@classicnet.net> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 6:59 PM Subject: Re: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Sponsors? > Sure have and it is a Roman Catholic thing to baptize babies, also a > Lutheran thing and I do not know of others, but maybe Episcopalian. The > sponsors agree to see that the child is raised in the faith, if something > happens to the parents at an early age of the child - until the child is old > enough to be trained in the faith and be confirmed of its own > freewill....taking its own vows at that time. mary margaret selig-trahan > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Cara Showers <cara@dcdesign.com> > To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 5:18 PM > Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Sponsors? > > > > I was reading through a Bible transcription last night and about every > other > > person would have a list of sponsors after their name. Some sponsors > > appeared after the baptism date and some just appeared after the person's > > name or birth date. > > > > Please forgive my ignorance, but is this a catholic thing? I'm thinking it > > might be, because of the age of the babies when they were baptised. I > don't > > know much about the denominations, but I believe the Catholics baptize > > babies. Maybe other denominations do? I don't know. > > > > Just wondering if anyone's heard of Sponsors in a family Bible. > > -- > > Cara (Gregory) Showers > > Anchorage, Alaska > > cara@dcdesign.com > > > > > > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > > USGenWeb Archives Census Project > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/census/ > > > > > > ============================== > > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB > > > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > USGW Archives Pension Project > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/pensions/ > > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp > >

I have been a member of this list for a good long while now. It seems to me there is more bickering and finger-pointing on this list than any other list I am a member of. I have gotten to the point I can't even stand it anymore. To the administrator of this list, please unsubscribe me. And to those of you who can't help but take cheap shots at others, thanks so much for ruining this list for those who could benefit from it. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

on 6/1/01 8:48 PM, Margaret Driskill at mdriskill@worldnet.att.net wrote: > Author, Lecturer, Attorney Paul Drake has unsubscribed from this LIST. Paul can speak for himself, can't he Margaret? Or is this Margaret speaking for Paul? I know you (plural) say you won't be "questioned", but maybe one of you can answer the following: 1. At what firm has Paul ever practiced law? and when? 2. Where and to whom has he lectured on genealogy, and on what topic? 3. What articles has he authored on genealogy, when were they published and and who published them? Craig Kilby

Please Paul - do not do this....I, for one have so enjoyed all of your comments concerning various subjects on this list....Yours and Margaret's comments are so helpful to so many of us that do not have the resources at hand to further our search. In all organizations, walks of life etc. there is always narrow minded people...so please let's not let them "rattle our chains"....just use our mouse to hit the delete button and they are out of here...... Please re-subscribe----thank you. mary margaret selig-trahan ----- Original Message ----- From: Margaret Driskill <mdriskill@worldnet.att.net> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 8:48 PM Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] 'Sponsors' in Bible > Well dear Southsiders, Craig Kilby has succeeded. > > Author, Lecturer, Attorney Paul Drake has unsubscribed from this LIST. One can only take so much sarcasm. > > Margaret > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > VAGenWeb > http://www.rootsweb.com/~vagenweb > > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB >

I for one knows that Paul is a caring and compassionate and extremely learned person. How did this all get started? Can't we agree to disagree once in a while without getting our "noses out of joint" to use a phrase my Mom used to use all the time? Brownie

Well dear Southsiders, Craig Kilby has succeeded. Author, Lecturer, Attorney Paul Drake has unsubscribed from this LIST. One can only take so much sarcasm. Margaret

Well said Jeff----and I second the motion. Jeff Smith wrote: > I thought that one of the roles of the List Administrator was to monitor > the list and put a stop to exchanges such as these by removing the > offending party from the list. > > Craig, are you not getting the message here. Folks subscribe to these > lists to exchange POSITIVE words and thoughts and to help each other > with genealogical matters. Messages from you like the two below have > less than zero value and consume valuable time and space with GARBAGE > that has nothing to do with genealogy. In short, they have no place on > this list. > > Of course Paul and Margaret are going to defend each other, like any > friends would do. The two of them have worked closely together to > publish books. Because of my high regard for both Paul and Margaret, > their tremendous individual and collective knowledge, and their endless > willingness to help others, I have grown very fond of them without ever > personally meeting either. I have purchased two of their books which > are excellent works. > > I am quite sure that there are many people on this list that feel the > same as I do. I would ask Margaret to plead with Paul to return to the > list. I am quite saddened to learn of his unsubscribing. > > On the other hand, the obvious solution for the prevention of any > further such exchanges would be for the list administrator to remove > you, Craig, from this list and I am hereby making that formal request of > the list administrator. A simpler alternative, however, would be for > you to voluntarily unsubscribe yourself. > > One last thing, Craig. Don't bother to reply to this message because > you will be wasting your time writing something that will not be read. > I, for one, DO know how to use the delete key and in the future, any > message arriving in my mailbox with your name attached will indeed get > the automatic delete. Moreover, I would like to lobby for all other > members of this list to do the same. > > Now, I must offer my sincerest apologies to the rest of the list for > dragging on this ridiculous exchange for one more round. I am usually > very tolerant and have a high level of patience, but I finally popped my > cork on this latest of many verbal assaults. > > Best regards to everyone and lets get back to genealogy. > Jeff Smith > > << last two messages from Craig copied below >> > > "Paul can speak for himself, can't he Margaret? Or is this Margaret > speaking > for Paul? I know you (plural) say you won't be "questioned", but maybe > one > of you can answer the following: > > 1. At what firm has Paul ever practiced law? and when? > 2. Where and to whom has he lectured on genealogy, and on what topic? > 3. What articles has he authored on genealogy, when were they published > and > and who published them? > > Craig Kilby" > > "Remember, Paul has not said he unsubscribed or quit the list. Margaret > said > that. So send your emails to Margaret. And Paul said Margaret would > not be > "tested" on her post on religion. So if you want to question Margaret, > send > an email to Paul. I think they are the same person, a split > personality. > Maybe we can hear from him/her seperately and get this sorted out? > > Craig" > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > VAGenWeb > http://www.rootsweb.com/~vagenweb > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp

What a loss to all of us!!!!!!!!! Margaret Driskill wrote: > Well dear Southsiders, Craig Kilby has succeeded. > > Author, Lecturer, Attorney Paul Drake has unsubscribed from this LIST. One can only take so much sarcasm. > > Margaret > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > VAGenWeb > http://www.rootsweb.com/~vagenweb > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB

This certainly makes one reluctant to ask for information , which I thought was the purpose of this list.The original message was a simple question about the meaning ( or duty ) of a "sponsor" and only required a simple answer. So why all this discussion? Brownie MacKie wrote: > I for one knows that Paul is a caring and compassionate and extremely > learned person. How did this all get started? Can't we agree to disagree > once in a while without getting our "noses out of joint" to use a phrase my > Mom used to use all the time? > > Brownie > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > USGenWeb Archives http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history > learning and how-to articles on the Internet. > http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library

Thanks Brownie, This is very interesting. To distinguish one from the other, sometimes can be very confusing. My dad was raised a Presbyterian until around the age of 14 then Baptized as a Baptist. He always said he didn't understand what difference it made either way you got wet! Sincerely Rhonda ----- Original Message ----- From: Brownie MacKie <BMacKie1@compuserve.com> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 2:41 PM Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] For everyone's information > My ancestors were Catholic (one built a Catholic Church in Washington, DC in > early 1800), Presbyterian, Methodists, Baptist, and Episcopalian. I was > raised a Methodist; however, in Sherman, Tx in the fifties, we were very > ecumenical. One of my very best friends was a Nazarene; another was > Jewish. I attended Mass at Christmas and New Year's. My Catholic friends > attended the Methodist Youth fellowship, because it's was the hottest place > in town. > > I looked up "sacrament" in the dictionary. "1: a formal religious act that > is sacred as a sign or symbol of a spiritual reality. " I thought this info > might be helpful to some of you. Also, baptism, as defined by the > dictionary, can be either Christian or non-Christian. It is a purification. > > Hope this helps. > > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > USGenWeb Archives Census Project > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/census/ > > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp > >

Thanks Margaret, Your efforts are well appreciated. Sincerely Rhonda ----- Original Message ----- From: Margaret Driskill <mdriskill@worldnet.att.net> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 3:56 PM Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Original question > Catholics do not believe that Baptism is symbolic. Baptism is one of the > Seven Sacraments of the Catholic Church. > > The rite of baptism of children is when the child is presented by parents > and godparents who represent the wider Christian community and who are to > help the parents in their task of raising the child in the faith. > THROUGHOUT the ceremony, THE PARENTS SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THE CHILD and > themselves, renewing their own baptismal vows. > > To answer the original question about "sponsor"......By the third century, > the Christian community developed a more complex way of bringing new members > to baptism and faith. It was one that offered previous training in the > faith and in the new way of living. When people were interested in becoming > Christians, they were presented to the leaders of the community by a friend > or "sponsor." Before they would be baptized, however, they would spend two > or three years learning about their new faith. They would study the > scriptures, pray with the community, perform acts of service and charity and > attend the Eucharist, leaving after the readings and the sermon. It > continues...... > > Margaret Driskill > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > VAGenWeb http://www.rootsweb.com/~vagenweb > > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB > >