I should have added that legal scholars speculate that a sale of land today by "turf and twig" likely would be sustained by a court, since that legal device seems to have never been specifically excluded as an acceptable method. Incidentally, for those who asked, I am a "lawyer," not an "attorney"; the former means one who has completed a legal education, the latter means one who practices law. I opted for a business career, though I very much love the law, especially in genealogy. Paul

Although a lot of definitions of all kinds are on the Internet, many of us are old-fashioned and prefer books. One of the ones I like--and is available where I do much of my research--is Black's Law Dictionary. Most public libraries also have a copy. That's where one can find definitions to older terms found in legal documents executed by our ancestors and/or the courts! One noted genealogist-lecturer said her husband gave her a Black's Law Dictionary for Christmas, and she treasures it and has learned a lot from it. Does anyone know whether a legal dictionary is on the internet? E.W.Wallace southern California

Frances asked: > Can anyone explain he difference between an "indenture of bargain & sale" > and "an indenture of feoffment". Quite usually there was no difference; the term "feoffment with livery of seisen" meant a transfer - including gifts - of physical objects or any other physical property - real estate - capable of being inherited, accompanied by an actual giving over of the object, or, if the property was land, a joint visit to the premises during which a piece of dirt or a limb was given by the owner to the "new" owner. In ancient times and even yet in the American colonies, that method was also called a transfer by "turf and twig." Such a conveyance was for centuries the ONLY way to convey ownership/transer such physical property. An "indenture of feoffment with livery of seisen" was later - and now - called a deed. Today, still, we require that there be an actual delivery - "livery" - of the deed when we buy land, and a "bill of sale" when we gain specific substantial property. With deeds and receipts from the local seller or merchant, we have almost completely supplanted those old methods.

All should remember that "law dictionaries" are not used to find answers to problems; such are used to BEGIN research and are VERY general in nature. Paul

FEOFFMENT, conveyancing. A gift of any corporeal hereditaments to another. It operates by transmutation of possession, and it is essential to its completion that the seisin be passed. Watk. Prin. Conv. 183. This term also signifies the instrument or deed by which such hereditament is conveyed. 2. This instrument was used as one of the earliest modes of conveyance of the common law. It signified, originally, the grant of a feud or fee; but it came, in time, to signify the grant of a free inheritance in fee, respect being had to the perpetuity of the estate granted, rather than to the feudal tenure. The feoffment was, likewise, accompanied by livery of seisin. The conveyance, by feoffment, with livery of seisin, has become infrequent, if not obsolete, in England; and in this country it has not been used in practice. Cruise, Dig. t. 32, c. 4. s. 3; Touchs. c. 9; 2 Bl. Corn. 20; Co. Litt. 9; 4 Kent, Com. 467; Perk.. c. 3; Com. Dig. h.t.; 12 Vin. Ab. 167; Bac. Ab. h.t. in pr.; Doct. Plac. 271; Dane's Ab. c. 104, a. 3, s. 4. He who gives or enfeoffs is called the feoffor; and the person enfeoffed is denominated the feoffee. 2 Bl. Com. 20. See 2 Bouv. Inst. n. 2045, note.

Thank you, I need Hamner info from Albemarle Co as well as I have Moon/Hamner marriages there too! Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: wawbrey <wawbrey@msn.com> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] [Fwd: HAMNER ~ Albermarle County] > Have you tried this site? > http://www.geocities.com/heartland/fields/6202/ > It has a lot of Hamner information > Kathy Awbrey > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Linda" <cityslic@ix.netcom.com> > To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 11:24 AM > Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] [Fwd: HAMNER ~ Albermarle County] > > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: {not a subscriber} HAMNER ~ Albermarle County > > Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 10:57:44 -0700 > > From: "Hope C. Pees" <jouett@axs4u.net> > > Reply-To: "Hope C. Pees" <jouett@axs4u.net> > > To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Noted the HAMNER message and although I did not find a Baskerville in my > > HAMNER file, would appreciate any information at all regarding the > > following > > HAMNER family. > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Hope Coslett Pees > > Seguin, Texas > > jouett@axs4u.net > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > First Generation > > ---------------------------------------- > > 1. Turner HAMNER. Born on December 27, 1752. Turner died on February 15, > > 1845, he was 92. > > Turner Hamner sells to Jeremiah Cleaveland on October 5, 1795 in > > consideration of 300 pounds "current money of Virginia" 270 acres of > > land > > "by patent lying and being in the County of Albemarle on both sides of > > the > > south fork of the hardware river." > > . . . "the right of dower of Elizabeth excepted," Turner Hamner not > > selling > > this right. > > Signed: Turner Hamner (L.D.) > > Ann Hamner (L.D.) > > _____________________________________________ > > OGLETHORPE COUNTY, GEORGIA REVOLUTIONARY SOLDIERS > > 1168, TURNER HAMNER, 2 draws > > 1169, WILLIAM HAMNER, 1 draw > > 1170, RICHARDSON HAM[ERN], 2 draws > > 1171, Winkfield HAMNER, 2 draws > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > It is much harder to see today > > if you are looking at yesterday. > > Lord, help me to live and appreciate > > each moment as I am experiencing it, > > so that I am prepared more fully for > > the next moment. > > > > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > > USGenWeb Archives Census Project > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/census/ > > > > > > ============================== > > Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! > > http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2 > > > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > USGenWeb Archives http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb > > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp >

"feoffment" means to invest for a fee.

Thanks, Paul! Next question (I'm full of them!) Can anyone explain he difference between an "indenture of bargain & sale" and "an indenture of feoffment". Sometimes the record said "indenture of feoffment with livery of seizin". I'm familiar with the livery of seizin part - it's the difference between bargain & sale and feoffment that I can't figure out. I have found these expressions numerous times in the Lunenburg Order Books - in many cases I have found the deeds they are referring to. Surely there is some difference, but I haven't been able to determine what it is, even with the deeds to compare. Some of the definitions I've found for feoffment relate to inherited land, but the corresponding deeds indicate the land was sold for money, not inherited - unless maybe the grantor had inherited it previously. I think with a little rummaging through papers I can come up with the deeds and the corresponding order book records as examples if needed.

The "moderate" option has been removed on this list. Thank you all for being so patient. Linda

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: {not a subscriber} "Laying off" taxes Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 07:48:28 -0700 From: "Paul Drake" <martee@citlink.net> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Cookie asked: "...> Another question you might be able to answer..... > > Lunenburg Order Book 2, p 139 February Court 1748/49 > 8 Feb 1748/9 - Court for laying the County Levy > To whom granted William Bowen Junr > by whom granted Rob H Dyer > date of cert 19 Nov 1748 > quitrnts Tob[acc]o 140 > > This was just one of many entries for various people recorded similarly. The > page was actually set up in columns rather than across as I have it. There > was a whole list of people with info entered under the same columns. There > was nothing further at the beginning to help explain it - just the date and > Court for laying the County Levy" Ms. Cookie; You have found a record and list of landowners whose taxes ("levys" "levies") were "layd off to and recognized by the county as having been the obligation of someone else. Such situations arose when by reason of leases, land contracts, mortgages, and other legal devices, the taxes should be paid by a third party and not by the record owner, i.e., by lessees, renters, coteanants, heirs, etc. We still use the expression in a critical or blaming fashion when we say that as to some duty, "Jones laid the blame off on Smith."

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] [Fwd: Danville, Va-North Carolina Border] Date: Sun, Jun 3 2001 10:43:09 GMT-0400 From: tadkins@kimbanet.com Danville does not quite reach the state line. >

Ms. Linda, I am sorry - truly, I am - for whatever measure of blame is mine in the whole mess that has caused you all this extra work. I appreciate your effort, and having had some measure of experience with such screening requirements, I do know what it means. Thanks. Paul

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: {not a subscriber} Thomas B. Worrell Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 05:50:03 -0700 From: "Paul Drake" <martee@citlink.net> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Anyone know of Thomas B. Worrell, who lived near "Newsome's Station" in S'hampton county during the years 1840-1870+, and who was born c1805 ?? I have two handwritten letters from him to my Dr. William Kitchen Drake and would be happy to share those.

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: {not a subscriber} Book Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 22:16:48 -0700 From: NPumpkin2@aol.com To: VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com Can any of you fellow listers tell me how to get my hands on a copy of "WATKINS FAMILIES OF SOUTHERN VIRGINIA" please HELP.

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: {not a subscriber} Lucille F. Howell Obit-Halifax Co. Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 20:29:07 -0700 From: Mabeone@aol.com To: VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com The Courier-Tribune ROANOKE RAPIDS - Lucille Ferrell Howell, 85, of 436 Washington St., died Friday, Nov. 24, 2000, at Clapps Nursing Home in Asheboro. Funeral service will be 11 a.m. Monday, at First United Methodist Church, Roanoke Rapids, where she was a member, with the Rev. William D. Sabiston III officiating. Burial will be in Cedarwood Cemetery. She was a native of Halifax County, the widow of Robert Taylor Howell, a former employee of J.P. Stevens & Co., a member of the J.R. Edwards Sunday School Class and the Bettie Oakes Circle. She was a charter member of the Halifax Restoration Committee and a member of the Eastern Star, OES 119. Surviving are daughters, Margaret H. Cooper of Huntersville, Emily H. Matkins of Asheboro; brother, Willard C. Ferrell of Kure Beach; four grandchildren; three great-grandchildren. The family will be at the church, 10-11 a.m. Monday. Memorials may be made to the Emera Chapter 119, Laura Turner, Route 1, Box 46B, Pleasant Hill, N.C. 27866 or First United Methodist Church, 339 Roanoke Ave., Roanoke Rapids, N.C. 27870. Wrenn Funeral Home Inc. is in charge of the arrangements

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: {not a subscriber} Danville, Va-North Carolina Border Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 19:36:08 -0700 From: MUSEDMM@aol.com To: Va-Southside-L@rootsweb.com Hello Everyone, I was told that Danville, Virginia stretches into North Carolina. If this is true, in what county would Danville stretch, and is it called something else once you enter North Carolina? Thank you, DMMUSE

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: {not a subscriber} Fannie W. BeBause Obit--Halifax County Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 16:03:43 -0700 From: Mabeone@aol.com To: VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com The Courier-Tribune Ashboro,NC GREENSBORO - Fannie Mae Wilkerson DeBause, 88, of 5119 Randleman Road, died Wednesday, May 9, 2001, at Wesley Long Nursing Center. Funeral service will be 10 a.m. Saturday at Hanes-Lineberry Vanstory Street Chapel. Burial will be 2 p.m. at Union Chapel Baptist Church Cemetery in Clarksville, Va. She was a native of Halifax County, Va., a member of Union Chapel Baptist Church, and was formerly employed with Burlington Mills Clarksville Refinishing Plant. Surviving are daughters, Velma Rollins of Greensboro, Dorothy Martin of Colfax, Pearlie D. Bullock of Randleman; son, Chris "Buck" DeBause of Butner; stepdaughters, Louise Moore of Wilmington, Pattie Phillips of Oxford, Ruth Griggs of Greensboro; brother, William T. Wilkerson of Virgilina, Va; sister, Rosa Colcard of Winter Springs, Fla.; nine grandchildren, 23 great-grandchildren; nine great-great-grandchildren. The family will be at the funeral home 7-9 p.m. Friday

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] [Fwd: Re: Where is this?] Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 15:44:58 EDT From: PACJ1945@aol.com To: cityslic@ix.netcom.com Jane, Please post to the list the reply to your question. My ancestor, Samuel Corbitt, was at "The Rocks" according to his Rev. War Pension papers and I am not exactly sure where that is and am wondering if possibly they are the same place. Pat C. Johns in Va.

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: {not a subscriber} Robertson family - VA/NC/TN Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 12:26:33 -0700 From: Bonnie Schwarz <brs1@mediaone.net> To: VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com Looking for others working on this Robertson family: Peter Robertson, wife Elizabeth?, children listed in his will dated 1823, rec. 1824 Edgecombe, NC, daus. Nancy, Rhoda POPE, Betsy WATKINS or WALKINS, son, Allen, (dec'd), Allen's ch: Rebecca, James A., Rhoda, Allen. Sons of Peter not mentioned in his will - John (deed 1798 in Nash Co from Peter to son John) and Wiley (deed in Nash Co to son Wiley). Wiley pre-deceased Peter. Believe this Peter Robertson to be the same as shown in Bristol Parish Register, Prince Geo VA, b. 1742, son of Henry and Anne Robertson. Henry died 1764 Halifax, NC. Any input very much appreciated! Bonnie

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: {not a subscriber} Re: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] [Fwd: Nottoway Parish]Nottoway Chapel Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 11:55:17 -0700 From: TWHAVEN@webtv.net To: cityslic@ix.netcom.com (Linda) CC: VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com Don't know if this helps--Source "Notes on Southside Virginia " by Walter A. Watson-- Amelia County Court Order Book No.1 year 1737- leave is given to clear a road from the county line between Tomahitton and the Birchen Swamps to the Chappel on Nottoway ; year 1740-Matthew Cabiness surveyor of a road to be cleared from James Anderson's road into Jordan's road and so to Nottoway Chapell;year 1742-Samuel Jordan appointed surveyor of the road from Nottoway Chapel to Prince George County Line; 1745 -On motion of William Watson it is ordered that a bridleway be opened from the New Road at head of Lazaretto to Nottoway Chapel .