One must be careful in this area of genealogical problems. Anyone - anyone - can execute a deed to anyone else for land or other property, even to the Almighty or to the Devil. The questions arise, NOT when the minor receives the land and such a deed for it, but when he/she tries to sell it with good title and is yet underage. As I said, feme sole traders and men under 21 who were by marriage or necessity called upon to act as adults often were recognized as able to do such legal acts by the courts having jurisdiction over them. Without that specific authority, any early buyer with good sense would be very hesitant to accept any deed signed by a minor, since upon coming of age in most jurisdictions, a minor could disavow ANY acts he/she performed or any deeds or contracts made during minority. We must be very careful about generalities. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mickey Fournier" <mfournier@atlantic.net> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 2:39 PM Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] minors owning land > I think marriage may have made a difference for a minor. I have an ancestor > in South Carolina who was 18 (according to Bible records) when he got > married. His father deeded him 200 acres of land within a week of the > marriage. I expect that marriage "emancipated" a minor of either sex. > > Mildred "Mickey" Fournier > PO Box 1967, Lake City, FL 32056 > mailto:MFournier@atlantic.net > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > Hosted by Rootsweb http://www.rootsweb.com > > > ============================== > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com >

Carol, I think that's what happened to one of my ggg grandmothers in NC. She had my gg grandfather in 1807. As I cannot find a marriage record, though, I have to consider the fact that HE was free as a bird to do whatever he wanted. He left in 1808 to go points north and west. She subsequently married (1811). Apparently that didn't work out, and she ended up living with a younger son and family, who took care of her until she died. The younger son's surname is the same as her maiden name. While my gg grandfather took the surname of his father. And I have letters proving that his father was his father. Very strange.

Paul & list Concerning husbands who went west and never returned.Is the wife ever considered divorced after a certain period of time even though no formal divorce proceedings took place?? This would be in the early 1800's timeframe Carol in Va

Good question, Carol, and it posed many a problem to the early courts and women because men so very often went west and disappeared. >....Concerning husbands who went west and never >returned.Is the wife ever > considered divorced after a certain period of time even >though no formal > divorce proceedings took place?? The answer is no; there was no set length of absence, and a husband gone and not making contact for long periods simply was not enough. The law for centuries had been that "abandonment" was a "voluntary" separation with an "intention" to remain apart from then on. That "intention" was very difficult to prove, since no one really knew if the husband was dead, sick and disabled, captured by the Indians, or even whether or not his letters had been lost in the incredibly poor mail service of those days. Indeed, the problem was peculiarly unique here because of our vast, harsh and distant frontiers. The courts solved it by holding that absence of a husband without explanation or contact for a long period, which absence left the family destitute and without food or shelter, was legal abandonment, without regard to what that husband appeared to have "intended." Still, it was very difficult, and many women, as did their men, simply moved, said they were widows, and took up with or married another man. > > Carol in Va > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > USGenWeb Archives Digital Maps Project > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/maps/ > > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp >

Can anyone download this Bible Record for me? The original is supposed to be on file at The Virginia State Library. I have tried to bring it up but it requires a VTLS TIFF VIEWER and it does not support my computer which is Windows ME. It only supports Microsoft Windows versions 3.//95/98. Thank you for checkin for me. Gerry germae@thegrid.net

Mrs. Leary is very able, and I am sure her work is good! We must also remember that when situations demanded that the court recognize a power to buy, sell and trade, women who were widows, divorced, had an annulment, or whose husbands had abandoned them, had disappeared, or had "gone west" and had not returned or contacted the family for long periods, were declared "feme sole traders" and dealt in the same fashion as did men. Notice however, though the practice was seen in many states, some limited that power to dealing in personalty, but not real estate, SC for example. Paul

According to "North Carolina Research, Genealogy and Local History," Helen F.M. Leary, Editor, p. 43, in North Carolina: "Although a man could buy or be granted land before he was twenty-one, he could not sell it in his own name. "A single woman or a widow could buy land and, if twenty-one or over, sell it herself, but before 1868 a married woman normally could not---all the land a wife owned before marriage or inherited during it came under her husband's control." The book mentions on another page that some cases are known where a grantor was younger than twenty-one. One wonders how people actually established an age at the time. Many of the Revolutionary War soldiers who filed for pensions were not really sure when they were born. This book is usually considered the definitive work on NC genealogical research, but, of course, anyone could be wrong on a point. But it has been used by many genealogists and any errors would likely have been corrected in the current edition. This book is essential for anyone doing genealogical research in NC. You will save a lot of time by reading it first. It will answer most of the questions posed about NC research in a clear and authoratative manner. Since many documents in VA were similar, it is somewhat useful for VA researchers. I haven't found an equivalent work for VA.

I neglected to mention that I also occasionally am in northern AL. Paul

I have been asked by several of you if I do public speaking and seminars concerning genealogy and (or) history. Because I do not charge, except for my actual out of pocket expenses, I feel free to here mention that I do so. I frequently am in VA, NC, SC and GA, and would be happy to see if my schedule meets your needs. Please contact me privately at <martee@citlink.net> Paul

Hi, Are you a Virginian or a Southerner? It is an old tradition in the South to give children "family" names as a first name. My first name is Deane (pronounced Dean) which was my grandmother's maiden name (read: family name). I know tons of people (male and female) with first names like Mason, Warren, Meade, etc. who have those names because they are family names. In fact, that is how certain names got worked into the popular culture. Names like Stuart, Ashley, Lindsay, Taylor...... are used by many people as first names but were chosen just because the parents happened to like that particular name. I would imagine that Mason was just that: a family name. deane Mills York County Va > Dear List Members, > I would like to ask whether any of you have information about 1700s men named Mason, in Prince George and other counties. That is, men who were given the baptismal name Mason. I have collected Mason Bishop and Mason Phillips, both alive in mid-1700s. But I'd be grateful for any others. Thanks, Mary Jane Phillips-Matz > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > USGenWeb Archives Census Project > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/census/ > > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp >

How nice of you to say! Thank you, Sir, very much. Glad to be of some help when I can. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Couch, Robert H. " <rcouchauburn@mindspring.com> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] evidence > Paul, > > It is such a comfort to have you here on this site. Thanks for all the > wise, learned information you provide to all of us. > > Robert H. Couch in Alabama > ---------- > >From: "Paul" <martee@citlink.net> > >To: VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] evidence > >Date: Sat, Apr 21, 2001, 2:08 PM > > > > >Thanks for the dozens of splendid comments > >about evidence sent to me, all of you. I > >found in almost everyone on the list > >agreement that labels serve no useful purpose > >and should be ignored, except perhaps by > >newcomers (and even they learn nothing from > >such words as primary, indirect, > >preponderance, and the like). I also fully > >agree that all researchers should examine > >EVERY source (clear or equivocal, reliable or > >not so much so) that in any way whatever > >tends to prove any measure of kinship or > >lineage and should ignore all labels applied > >by anyone. Almost all of you agreed that any > >single bit of evidence might be called by > >several of the catch-words, yet nothing is > >learned by using those descriptions. One of > >you commented that describing some source as > >secondary tells us NOTHING except that such > >evidence may not be as reliable as some other > >source; how true that is !!! In conclusion, > >you seem universally in agreement that we > >MUST seek to discern whether the author or > >creator of every bit of evidence, now or in > >the past, had good reason to know and to be > >honest in stating the facts or creating the > >memento or writing; that all evidence may be > >reliable as to some facts, yet unreliable as > >to other facts; that we all should seek every > >bit of evidence that tends to prove kinship; > >and that conflicting facts must be examined > >and weighed in light of human experience and > >good genealogical practice, and not because > >someone else has called such evidentiary fact > >by some of the many labels. Thanks for the > >many responses. Paul > > > > > >==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > >USGW Archives Pension Project > >http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/pensions/ > > > > > >============================== > >Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp > > > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > VAGenWeb > http://www.rootsweb.com/~vagenweb > > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F1 1HB >

Please reply to Grace Upshaw directly. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: {not a subscriber} Bruce family Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 07:29:01 -0700 From: "Grace Upshaw" <gu6225@telocity.com> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> I need information about John Bruce Sr. who died in Halfax Co., Va. 1816. 1st wife, parents, birth place, siblings - any clues greatly appreciated. Grace Upshaw

Paul, It is such a comfort to have you here on this site. Thanks for all the wise, learned information you provide to all of us. Robert H. Couch in Alabama ---------- >From: "Paul" <martee@citlink.net> >To: VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] evidence >Date: Sat, Apr 21, 2001, 2:08 PM > >Thanks for the dozens of splendid comments >about evidence sent to me, all of you. I >found in almost everyone on the list >agreement that labels serve no useful purpose >and should be ignored, except perhaps by >newcomers (and even they learn nothing from >such words as primary, indirect, >preponderance, and the like). I also fully >agree that all researchers should examine >EVERY source (clear or equivocal, reliable or >not so much so) that in any way whatever >tends to prove any measure of kinship or >lineage and should ignore all labels applied >by anyone. Almost all of you agreed that any >single bit of evidence might be called by >several of the catch-words, yet nothing is >learned by using those descriptions. One of >you commented that describing some source as >secondary tells us NOTHING except that such >evidence may not be as reliable as some other >source; how true that is !!! In conclusion, >you seem universally in agreement that we >MUST seek to discern whether the author or >creator of every bit of evidence, now or in >the past, had good reason to know and to be >honest in stating the facts or creating the >memento or writing; that all evidence may be >reliable as to some facts, yet unreliable as >to other facts; that we all should seek every >bit of evidence that tends to prove kinship; >and that conflicting facts must be examined >and weighed in light of human experience and >good genealogical practice, and not because >someone else has called such evidentiary fact >by some of the many labels. Thanks for the >many responses. Paul > > >==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== >USGW Archives Pension Project >http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/pensions/ > > >============================== >Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp >

I am a Southside Browder descendant. My Edmund named a daughter Mason as did his brother. Would love to know why. Bebe in NC In a message dated 6/6/01 9:50:48 AM, images@ix.netcom.com writes: << Dear List Members, I would like to ask whether any of you have information about 1700s men named Mason, in Prince George and other counties. That is, men who were given the baptismal name Mason. I have collected Mason Bishop and Mason Phillips, both alive in mid-1700s. But I'd be grateful for any others. Thanks, Mary Jane Phillips-Matz ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== USGenWeb Archives Census Project http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/census/ ============================== Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L-request@rootsweb.com> Received: from rly-xa05.mx.aol.com (rly-xa05.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.74]) by air-xa04.mail.aol.com (v78_r3.8) with ESMTP; Wed, 06 Jun 2001 09:50:48 -0400 Received: from lists5.rootsweb.com (lists5.rootsweb.com [63.92.80.123]) by rly-xa05.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.36) with ESMTP; Wed, 06 Jun 2001 09:50:33 -0400 Received: (from slist@localhost) by lists5.rootsweb.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f56DoGq22799; Wed, 6 Jun 2001 06:50:16 -0700 Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 06:50:16 -0700 X-Original-Sender: images@ix.netcom.com Wed Jun 6 06:50:16 2001 Message-ID: <002901c0eea8$86ad61c0$4e7abfa8@images> From: "Matz" <images@ix.netcom.com> Old-To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:48:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Mason Used as First Name Resent-Message-ID: <WXyJcB.A.3jF.YUjH7@lists5.rootsweb.com> To: VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/12469 X-Loop: VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: VA-SOUTHSIDE-L-request@rootsweb.com >>

Dear List Members, I would like to ask whether any of you have information about 1700s men named Mason, in Prince George and other counties. That is, men who were given the baptismal name Mason. I have collected Mason Bishop and Mason Phillips, both alive in mid-1700s. But I'd be grateful for any others. Thanks, Mary Jane Phillips-Matz

Dear List Members, To add to Tammy Jones's query about minor children and land patents, I have a question about my ancestors, Thomas and Isabella Phillips, who family, who lived in Prince George Co. VA and registered their children's baptisms in the Bristol Parish Vestry Book. They emigrated to Craven Co., North Carolina in before 1743. 1743-1746. Could my ancestor John Philips [Phillips], son on Thomas and Isabella Phillips, have patented land or bought land by deed when he was 17-20 years old? From the records I have, it seems that he could, perhaps even when he was a minor. He was the oldest son and the oldest child in a large family, when his father died in 1743. Thank you. Mary Jane Phillips-Matz

Thank-you so much to all that replied to me, you've all been so kind and helpful. To answer a few questions, - I am researching WELLS, RULAND/RUHLAND, DEVANY families. My gggrandfather was WILLIE WELLS b abt 1840's who was from Petersburg - family story is that he was the wealthiest in the county but lost everything in the Civil War. I need to know his wifes name - They had two known children;- WILLIAM RICHARD WELLS AND ANNA WELLS William Richard Wells was married to MARIAN RULAND(E) /RUHLAND approx 1886 both died about 1908 - He worked for a newspaper and travelled around alot working. 1. Marian (Wells ) Parker Joyner b 1887 - d? 2.Elizabeth Wells - b ? d abt 1921 3.Anne Wells- b 1897- 1921 4.Frances Wells Hart -b? d 1995 5.Caroline Lane Wells Tingher (my grandmother) - Suffolk - b ? d ? 6.Richard Wells - b. 1902 - 1968 7.Mary(Polly) Wells Devany - b.1905 -1959 ANNA WELLS married DR. WALTER LESLIE DEVANY - they lived in Dendron Surry.co. - 5 children Dr. Walter Leslie Devany was from Dendron b 1859 -1931. He was the son of James H and Nannie J Devany. Anna and Dr. Devany's children were:- 1.Annie 2.Dorothy 3.Mrs Sam J Wilson 4.Judge Walter Lelsie 5.Edward Heath Devany Edward Heath Devany married Mary (Polly) Wells I have recently discovered my grandmother Caroline Lane Wells was born in Suffolk - d.o.b 27th March - need to find year of birth. - possibly 1901. Does anyone recognise these names? Any help will be appreciated Monica Hertfordshire UK

To supplement what Paul said, whenever you read the term "lend" in a will you need to look for a "companion" clause where the said "lended" items are actually "bequeathed" or "given" to someone. And if you can't find it then the lawyer fell down on his job, and there is probably a chancery court record! The inference for wives/widows as Paul said is that you get to live there, enjoy the services of the servants, the crops, the meat, etc. but it "aint" yours. If you read the wills with the "lend" clause there is always (should be) another clause somewhere providing information on the actual owner. Henry Robertson's will is a case of two sets of children of probably significantly varying ages. I have seen wills with one wife, with children of varying ages and at the death of the father, where there are instructions that one son is to take care of his mother and take care of the plantation/land. Since when Henry Robertson died, all of his "second family" sons were VERY young (given the emails I appended at the end), this wasn't an option apparently. (Interesting question is what were the step parent/step child/step sibling relations?) I do know that Tralucia, wife #2 has an Amelia Co will, and/or probate record. Best Regards, Janet Hunter

If you can help me solve this, you'll help to bring down a major brick wall! I have been told that under certain circumstances, a male under 21 could patent land in colonial VA. What do you think of the following circumstance? I have an ancestor who patented several tracts of land in the mid 1700's. His sons were also named on the patents - first the two eldest, then a younger, and so on. The father later dies intestate and witnesses later testified that he never intended on writing a will. This reminded me of the present day practice of added a relatives name to a piece of property in order that it pass directly to them in the event of one of the holder's death. I have heard of many people doing this in order to avoid probate. So - my question is: Could he of added the name of a son under 21 years of age to his own patent? Has anyone any examples of this type of practice in colonial VA? Thank you, Tammy Jones

Quan: When the bank loans you money, it sets the term during which you may keep the money and how you must pay it back Your ancestor provided that when he died, he "loaned" his widow everything he owned (including a slave) for so long as she lived or until his son turned 21, whichever occurred first, but in order to keep that estate for that period, she had to remain single (and live, of course). Had she re-married before the son turned 21, she would have had to give it back. The dead man could have said that he granted her a "life estate" in his assets, however that could have become complicated because life estates without more conditions do NOT prohibit remarriage and do not terminate when a child comes of age. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "quan pruitt" <pruitt@email.msn.com> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 8:55 PM Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Re: Will, Henry Robertson, Ameila Co VA 1782 What is the meaning of LEND? > > ....NC will 1782 of Henry Dixon Jr. > In premise I lend to my dearly beloved wife Martha my whole Estate until such time as my son Wynne shall arrive to the age of twenty one years old or During her widowhood and if she should not marry I lend her the tract of land I now own and a Negro woman called Hannah during her natural life. > > Item I give to my son Henry after the death or marriage of Martha the tract of land whereon I now live > > Item Several tracts of land slave stock of all kin household furniture money equally divided between wife and children or as many as shall be living when eldest reaches 21 and also that the Negro woman Hannah lent to my wife with her increase equally divided as above. > > Did he give everything to the wife to hold for the children? Is that the meaning of lend? > > If he lent slaves and land to the wife until she dies when wills the land and the slaves go to the child? At 21 or after he dies? > > Also did he give the same tract of land to two sons? > > Also if he lent Hannah to the wife would that mean that Hannah and her children stayed with Martha until she died? > > Would the tithes come out of the children's estate? > > Quan > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > Hosted by Rootsweb http://www.rootsweb.com > > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history > learning and how-to articles on the Internet. > http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library >