True we learn to do by doing and I'm learning. Post Bond - Why? Money or Faith? I didn't think about guardian accounts. What if the wife is still alive would the same out come happen would they appoint a guardian. Yes I agree you do find interesting tidbits. Thanks so much, Quan ----- Original Message ----- From: Hdanw@aol.com To: pruitt@email.msn.com Cc: VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Will Someone more knowledgeable than I should answer you about what happens when a person dies without a will. However, this is what I have learned by reading many a court record from a lot of Southern States; in other words, we learn to do by doing. If a person died without a will, there was generally an administration, providing the decedent died with property of any kind. In the case of an administration, first there was an appraisal of the estate. The court (county court, in most cases) would appoint several men (always men), but generally four or so, three of whom were appointed to appraise the estate--make an inventory--and report back to the court. An administrator or administratrix was appointed by the court, and that person generally had to post bond. I forget in what order an estate sale was held, but generally it was held by the administrator or administratrix and a report of the purchasers and their purchases and the amount of the purchase had to be presented to the court by the administrator. This is where one can get an idea of the wealth or poverty of the decedent. If there were minor children, generally there are appointments of guardians, etc. If the family was poverty stricken, the children may be bound out, depending on the time and the place. That is why Probate records and court records and guardian accounts and orphans accounts all have to be read. If you will look at the LDS website--the Family History Library Catalog--at www.familysearch.org--you will see that for nearly every locality listed on the catalog there is a topic labeled Probates. Sometimes these accounts go on for YEARS, especially if there are minor children. Then, occasionally you will see an entry that an executor (in the case of a will) or an administrator will resign his position in favor of another male. Why? Because frequently the widow has remarried, and the new husband is taking over that position. Always read the guardian accounts or orphans court records, where they exist, because this is where you will find the most genealogical links. Sometimes, I have found, as the older children, males, again, of course, get older, they petition the court to appoint them/him as guardians of their younger siblings. In one case I read, the daughter of the deceased petitioned the court to change her guardianship from her stepfather to her older brothers, maintaining that her stepfather was not according her the education to which her rank entitled her (this in Mississippi in the 1840s). This family tiffs make interesting reading!!! Always read the court minutes, where available. Frequently the guardian and the remarried widow (his wife) will fail to provide the court with the annual account of the estate and the guardianship and he is ordered to show cause why he has not presented these in a timely fashion. Years later, you may find in the deeds where the now grown-up heirs are selling the real estate which they inherited, but at times they have to wait until the heirs of deceased heirs are of age. That's why genealogists have bloodshot eyes--squinting at bad microfilms!!! If you can find newspapers of the period and of the area in which you are researching, you may find some interesting tidbits--legal notices, etc. By prowling around courthouses, I found the probate of a man who died in an adjoining estate and in it was a newspaper clipping--a legal notice. His widow had remarried, her second husband had died, and she was having to sell the slaves who had belonged to the first husband. In reading at the probate further, I learned the names of the children she had had by the first husband. One thing leads to another. E.W.Wallace southern California

We don't use the word "probate" as you did here; we do not "have probates." The answer to your question is that there were deaths with wills - "testate" - which were "executed" by an executor/executrix - "intestate" - which were/are "administered" by an administrator/adminitratrix since almost time imemorial - at least a thousand years in UK. (there also are "administrations wwa" (an administration which includes a will which for some legal reason in inoperative, yet not void as to its terms). The court might - and often did - declare that an intestate estate was "without assets" and order that an administration of it should be "waived." Othewise, the law required that action by the court take place for exactly the reasons you suggested; when you die every known asset MUST be the subject of transfer to someone. That someone is quite usually a relative or so, since the dead can't do anything ever again, and we don't think title to any property should be left floating around in the heir. Such estates without assets were quite usually noted in the courts' minutes/entries for that county. Families have always carried off part of the personal property; it is overlooked by the law usually, unless the items are of great value or another heir complains to the court. Paul ----- Original Message ----- > Hi, > Could someone please answer for me what would happen if > in the 1800's a person who own property died and didn't leave a will? Did they have probate at that time or did the family just divide everything among themselves? Wouldn't they have to change ownership or something? > > Thanks, > Quan

Hi, Could someone please answer for me what would happen if in the 1800's a person who own property died and didn't leave a will? Did they have probate at that time or did the family just divide everything among themselves? Wouldn't they have to change ownership or something? Thanks, Quan Arnett, Brown, Dixon, Powell Maryland, North Carolina, Virginia to Kentucky

Does anyone have any info on the parents or children of this couple Both were from Greensville or Brunswick County Va. Nita

I am looking for Crowders in VA to the Carolinas in connection with Goins and Spains...I have Eli Crowder who was born in S.Carolina(?N.?)married Patsy Goins,born in MS, and both were mixedblood Choctaw who removed to Indian Territory in 1846..trying to backtrack to earlier Crowders...also trying to determine if there were any Crowders married to Spains...or DeSpains for that matter... Thank you, Barbara >>-->CHATA SIA HOKE<--<<

EW Wallace sent some excellent advice to Farrar Edwards who wrote: "I'm seeking information about the family of Thomas and Lucy Edwards of Henry and Pittsylvania Co. Thomas died ca 1791 and Lucy may have remarried and moved to Tennessee. Most of their children moved about 1800 to Oglethorpe Co., Georgia. Any clues as to Thomas' parents and siblings, or Lucy's maiden name, would be appreciated. Thanks." But the really neat thing about these lists is that sometimes you encounter the exact person who has YOUR answers. I do know that this particular Thomas Edwards was the son of Thomas who died in 1751, and his wife Martha. I have the transcript of his will. Further I have the transcript of the Deed where Thomas Jr. sold his father's land to Benjamin Crowley, with wife Lucy signing off on it. I have more data about this Edwards family because the widow Martha Edwards married Jeffery Crowley. The two sets of step-children remained close, moving together to Oglethorpe Co. GA. This info was put together by our leading Crowley researcher, the late Jack Grantham. I will be glad to transmit all of the pages of this info as I have it in my computer. Chalk up a BINGO for the VA-SOUTHSIDE LIST. Diana Williams

I have been asked "what" and "why" the very frequent appearances in early inventories of valance (valence, sic) beds (bedsteads). As today with drapes, most early Americans constucted a canopy over their beds (thus "four-posters") from which hung drawable curtains. Even the very poor did so almost without exception. The reasons being that there were no screens whatever (and no insecticides of worth), and during the warm months mosquitos and bugs of every description constantly moved to and fro the homes carrying disease and to the VERY GREAT annoyance of our ancestors. By hanging cheesecloth or other very loosely woven fabric over the top and to the floor from the valance or the canopy, a measure of protection from those critters was afforded. Then too, in winter, the cold might be partially warded off by using heavier more tightly woven material in place of the cheesecloth like fabrics of the warm seasons. Paul

Carla, I found in MARRIAGES OF AMELIA COUNTY: Page 31 December 12, 1785, Herbert Crowder and Molley WATSON, daughter of Jesse WATSON, so consents. Sur. Robert Winfree. Married by Rev. Simeon Walton. P. C-2 It is the only WATSON listed but I thought you might like to have it. Regards, Margaret

Looking for information on the William Watson b 1758 at Glenmore. Carla Watson Welburn calamity45@qwest.net

Farrar Edwards You wrote, in part: I'm seeking information about the family of Thomas and Lucy Edwards of Henry and Pittsylvania Co.  Thomas died ca 1791 and Lucy may have remarried and moved to Tennessee.  Most of their children moved about 1800 to Oglethorpe Co., Georgia.  Any clues as to Thomas' parents and siblings, or Lucy's maiden name, would be appreciated.  Thanks. Since Thomas seemed to be alive in 1790, I think a good way to try to find his antecedents may be to find all (yes, ALL) the Edwards males who appear in what is called The 1787 Census of Virginia. This was published several years ago by Florine Speakman Love and Netti Schreiner-Yantis. It may not be in your favorite genealogical library, but it is worth while seeking in whatever library you can find it. (Amazingly, some of the academic libraries--at colleges and Universities have some of these publications. Recognize that in 1787 Virginia covered a lot of territory--all of Kentucky (well, most of it), all of what is now West Virginia, parts of Ohio and parts of Pennsylvania--and whatever else she wanted to claim! Then you can narrow the counties in which this surname was prevalent. If you cannot find other tithable lists (some of which are online, I believe--but I am not clever with search engines), then you may want to subscribe to the rootsweb lists for those counties in which you find the surname. Another people-finder for pre-Revolutionary Virginia are the seven volumes of Cavaliers and Pioneers, which you MAY find in your genealogical library. But these land grants are on the website of VA State Library. I'm a book person myself, so I don't use the VSL website, but may soon break down my resistance to same. I've been taught by professionals that when you have several persons by the same name, then you distinguish them by the watercourse on which they lived (VERY important in Virginia, as that was generally the way they got their goods to market) and their associates. Some more skilled genealogists than I say that some folks seldom traveled more than about 5 miles from their home, but I refute that by reading old court records, in which witnesses were paid for the number of miles they traveled. Sometimes the distances were pretty great for the time. I hope I find your Edwards families. Possibly you may find that a family history has been compiled. Why not surf the LDS website--for the FHLC (fam Hist Lib Catalog)--and search for your surname. You may be amazed. I am speaking of the Catalog--not the IGI, which is flawed, as is the Ancestral File (only more flawed)! Happy hunting! I look for certain Williams families, Harris, and so many common names, which keeps me researching--and not on the net (which frequently lacks documentation). Beautiful websites, but flawed--again!!! E.W.Wallace a firm believer in films of original records but also use library materials

Welcome to my newly upgraded web-site Home page for the Fairbanks and Piper people Currently contains 4,991 Individuals in 1,674 family groups Surnames are a skeleton from my database I would be pleased to answer e-mail Please tour and enjoy the visit www.casstel.net/~jagile/ Adams Alred/Allred Benson Collins Crater Darling Dawson Dugger Etter Fairbanks Farthing Fleming Gann Gile Hahn Holbrook Hughes Keller Kingery Lane Martin Modlin Montanye Myers Newby Newnom Otwell Owings Parks Piper Stuber Stewart Townsend Watson Wise Wood Jo Ann perhaps a Mo. Cousin

Dear Southsiders: I am trying to find out more about 129 acres of land that Edmund Browder sold to John Phillips in 1721, on Second Swamp, south of Petersburg. The land adjoined land that John Phillips already owned there, and had owned at least as early as 1711. This is the history of land near that parcel; but I'm not sure how all this fits together. In April 1690, Henry Randolph, Sr., James Cocke, John Golightly and Solomon Crook patented 647 acres on Second Swamp. Some of the adjacent land was owned by John Sturdivant. The Sturdivants had a mill on Second Swamp. By 1693 Henry Randolph, Sr. had died, and the land was then owned by Cocke, Golightly and Crook. On June 5, 1693, Cocke, Golightly and Crook deeded 129 acres to William Mayes. That land lay between land owned by Cocke and other land owned by Henry Randolph, Jr. On the same day in 1693, Cocke, Golightly and Crook, "for love and affection," gave Henry Randolph, Jr. 129 acres, specifying that they did this, because the land had not been divided while Henry Randolph, Sr. was alive. That land lay between William Mayes' land and Solomon Crook's land. Sometime between 1693 and 1721, Crook sold another 129 acres of his land, presumably from the original patent, to Edmund Browder. In 1721, Browder sold that 129 acres to John Phillips. The Phillips family remained on Second Swamp well into the 1800s. Is anyone working on these families? Or know anything about that land? Thank you for your help. Mary Jane Phillips-Matz

Is everyone on this list on vacation? I unsubscribed and resubscribed with a new email address on July 1st, received confirmation, but have received no email from the list since then. I'm seeking information about the family of Thomas and Lucy Edwards of Henry and Pittsylvania Co. Thomas died ca 1791 and Lucy may have remarried and moved to Tennessee. Most of their children moved about 1800 to Oglethorpe Co., Georgia. Any clues as to Thomas' parents and siblings, or Lucy's maiden name, would be appreciated. Thanks. Farrar Edwards

What's the problem with this site? I recently unsubscribed from it and then subscribed to it again, but have not received a confirmation on either of the e-mails. I was getting messages regular from va-roots up until about 3 days ago and then they stopped. Lloyd L. Hite

VIVA, The Virtual Library of Virginia PRESS RELEASE VIVA, the Virtual Library of Virginia, is pleased to announce the availability of VIRGINIA HERITAGE (http://www.lib.virginia.edu/vhp/ ), a database of guides, or finding aids, describing archives and manuscripts in eleven repositories in the Commonwealth of Virginia. The participating institutions are: University of Virginia, College of William and Mary, George Mason University, Library of Virginia, Old Dominion University, Virginia Commonwealth University, Virginia Historical Society, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, Virginia Military Institute, Virginia State University, Washington and Lee University At present, there are 1600 finding aids in the database. Records in the database conform to the Encoded Archival Description (EAD) standard for encoding archival finding aids. The full text of the finding aids is searchable by keyword and by individual institution. The University of Virginia, representing VIVA, was awarded $250,000 from the National Endowment for the Humanities to implement the Virginia Heritage project. This NEH grant will help to improve access to a rich trove of primary source documents held by Virginia libraries. From the settlement at Jamestown in 1607, through the Revolutionary and Civil Wars and into the tumult of the 20th century, the Commonwealth of Virginia has stood at the center of America's history. Many of the priceless documents of American history, literature and political thought reside in the special collections of Virginia's colleges, universities, and other research libraries. "We estimate that there are about 25,000 finding aids representing some 30 million manuscripts and 16 million archives, to convert," said Edward Gaynor, project director at the University of Virginia Library. The Virginia Heritage project established its EAD processing center at the University of Virginia, which will provide the technological leadership for the project. As the first phase of the project, the processing center will encode and provide online access to approximately 15,000 pages of finding aids representing more than 500 collections on African-American history and culture that are drawn from all eleven participating institutions. In addition, the processing center will encode 5,000 related pages drawn from the University of Virginia's Virginiana collections, which are rich in resources that will help to place the African-American materials in context. "While 1600 out of 25,000 may not seem like much," commented Susan Riggs, project director at the College of William and Mary, "for us, it marks the end of a period of struggle to get this initial phase done, and the beginning of a very exciting time. It is crucial that detailed information about unique Virginia collections be easily available over the Internet. More and more, students and faculty make the Web their first research stop." Added Jodi Koste, project director at Virginia Commonwealth University's Tompkins-McCaw Library, "We hope that this project will not only provide improved access to collections, but will also provide the expertise to move forward on conversion of all finding aids within Virginia. The manuscript and archival collections in the Commonwealth of Virginia are incredibly rich primary research resources, and those of us who care for them want to make it easier for people to find what is here, and use it." VIVA, the Virtual Library of Virginia is the consortium of the libraries of the 39 state-assisted colleges and universities <at 52 campuses> within the Commonwealth of Virginia. In addition, 32 independent <private, non-profit> institutions and The Library of Virginia participate where possible. VIVA's mission is to provide, in an equitable, cooperative, and cost-effective manner, enhanced access to library and information resources for Virginia's academic libraries serving the higher education community. VIVA is sponsored by the State Council of Higher Education for Virginia (SCHEV). <http://www.schev.edu/ > For more information about VIRGINIA HERITAGE, contact Edward Gaynor at gaynor@virginia.edu or at (434) 924-3025.

Hello, I am looking for some help with this family below. John Henry WELLS b. 1857 Ella Jane DAVIS WELLS b. 1861 Charlotte "Lottie " Lee Wells b. January 26, 1878 If this family is familiar to any one I would appreciate the help. 1880 Federal Census Place: Petersburg, Dinwiddie, Virginia Source: FHL Film 1255363 National Archives Film T9-1363 Page 284A Relation Sex Marr Race Age Birthplace J.H. W. .WELLS Self M M W 23 VA Occ: Painter Fa: VA Mo: VA Ella Jane WELLS Wife F M W 19 VA Occ: Keeping House Fa: VA Mo: VA Lottie Lee. WELLS Dau F S W 1 VA Fa: VA Mo: VA

Is there anyone who lives close to The Library of Virginia in Richmond who could do a microfilm lookup for a death record and transportation permit. It is for one person who died in 1922 in Virginia and the body was transported to Wisconsin. I have the film numbers. If you can please contact me for the details. Thank you, Kathy in California Volunteer Lookup, Mason Co WV Marriage Records kathopp@earthlink.net

I have some information on some earlier Kirks tracing back from Mecklenburg to Lunenburg to Brunswick. If you can give me more info on your William, I might be able to pin down the family or line he came from. The Kirks married into the Bowen and Vaughan families. There was a William Kirks who was son of Samuel Kirks and Edith Bowen, but he was born much earlier than the one you're looking for. The name Singleton is also interesting. Robert Singleton m Polly Thompson 30 Dec 1795 Mecklenburg Co. That was her name according to the marriage record. But she was almost certainly Polly Thomason, daughter of John Thomason and Mary Bowen since they sold Bowen land. I don't know if Edward Singleton was one of their children or not. The Bowens, Kirks, Thomasons were near neighbors in NE Mecklenburg, and the Kirks and Thomasons are known to have married into the Bowen family at least once. You'll find some info at http://members.nbci.com/fcharper/bowens.html but I have more that I haven't had time to put up yet. If you can send me more info on your William Kirk - wife, children, close contacts, etc - I might spot something that will help. Lisa Hutchinson wrote: > Hello; I am trying to find the parents of William KIRKS who was born in VA in abt 1817. I found Kirks in Mecklenburg, Franklin, and Dinwiddie Counties. I am hoping that someone else may know of his parents and siblings. He migrated to TN and settled in Calloway Co., KY by 1850. Also, there is an Edward SINGLETON (wife Martha A.) also from VA that may have been related to William. Both men were shoemakers. Edward was born abt 1813. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! > Lisa Kirk-Hutchinson > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > VAGenWeb > http://www.rootsweb.com/~vagenweb > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp

Hello; I am trying to find the parents of William KIRKS who was born in VA in abt 1817. I found Kirks in Mecklenburg, Franklin, and Dinwiddie Counties. I am hoping that someone else may know of his parents and siblings. He migrated to TN and settled in Calloway Co., KY by 1850. Also, there is an Edward SINGLETON (wife Martha A.) also from VA that may have been related to William. Both men were shoemakers. Edward was born abt 1813. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Lisa Kirk-Hutchinson

Researching the surname: CORBETT, CORBITT, CORBIT FAZACKERLY, BELL, SOUTHALL Isle of Wight Co., Southampton Co., Princess Anne Co., Norfolk Co., Gloucester Co. Richard Corbett and Frances Church Corbett had a daughter Abigail Corbett who married Thomas Fazackerly, looking for anything on this family (late 1700, early 1800) Richard Corbett and Frances Church Corbett had a daughter Mary who married Joseph Bell, son of Andrew Bell, looking for anything on this family(late 1700, early 1800) Also a John (Jack) Corbett married Louise Bell, daughter of William Joseph Bell and Anna Marie Culp, looking for anything on this Bell and Corbett family. A Richard Corbett died 1795, naming a son Southall Corbett and wife Sally in his will in Princess Anne County. Grasping at straws with the thought that Sally may have been a Southall. Looking for anything on this Southall and Corbett family(late 1700-mid 1800). Their son, Southall Corbett served in the War of 1812 in the 8th Reg. Va. Militia, Magnien's Co., and the 20th Reg. Va. Militia. He is listed in the 1830 Norfolk Co. Census, page 375, St. Bride's Parish, would appreciate a lookup of the info. Thank you and God Bless Pat Corbitt Johns, in Va. http://members.aol.com/pacj1945