Dear Ms. Gregory, Thank you so much for sharing the Historical Society website. I have found the information shared in the newsletter to be very valuable. Donna Skipper Pultz PS If anyone has information on Francis Skipper b abt. 1645 and his son George, please share.

In a message dated 8/9/01 2:08:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, VA-SOUTHSIDE-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: << Does anyone know what the political situation is in VA such that the counties keep all of their records. In NC the counties sent their unneeded records to the state archives. Why is this not done in VA? >> Perhaps it's not a political situation at all. Perhaps the counties deem it easier for people to find records pertaining to the county in the county courthouse. It's certainly been easier for me to find records in the county where my ancestors lived in Virginia rather than try to get to the State Archives in North Carolina to find records of the ancestors that lived in North Carolina. BTW, VA isn't the only state that does this -- Ohio (where I live) and Indiana come to mind immediately. Maybe the best of both worlds would be to have everything held in the counties copies and available at the State Archives. : ) Sally

Jim or Eve: Am I correct that the option is open to forward your obsolete records to VA Archives or to keep them in the county? Paul

Does anyone know what the political situation is in VA such that the counties keep all of their records. In NC the counties sent their unneeded records to the state archives. Why is this not done in VA?

We should all pay heed to the comments following by Ms. Eve Gregory; she knows that county as well or much better than do almost any of us. . Then too, I hope we listen to Steve and Bunny; they and Margaret Haun have a measure of expertise that I - and most others of us - certainly do not share. At Eve's suggestion, I also have undertaken to answer the question of several of you "What are 'Loose Papers' and to whom do these belong?'" Eve wrote: > The Surry Circuit Court records are entrusted to the care of the > popularly elected Clerk of the Circuit Court. The Clerk is legally > responsible for what happens to them. The Clerk must operate within the > budget provided by the Surry County Board of Supervisors. That means > that the number of Deputy Clerks that can be hired is limited by that > budget. The Clerk of the Circuit Court MUST perform duties set down by > the law. The issues of today must be resolved BEFORE those of times > past, whether the rest of us like it or not. *** Amen, and this also applies to researchers in courthouses. Those folks are at their business day, and their time may not be such that they can assist you to any substantial extent right then. > > Paul, perhaps you could expand upon the full range of duties of clerks > of circuits courts in Virginia. I know they include verbatim recordation > of court proceedings and handling all the details of those proceedings, > issuance of various licenses (marriage, for instance), reception, > recordation and preservation of other legal documents, including deeds, > wills, mortgages, land surveys, and papers from lawsuits and others that > do not come to my mind at the moment. ***Records in the charge of the Clerks and their judges include those mentioned by Eve and still others that arise from the administration of any and all offices that have to do, directly or indirectly, with any activities of or for the Circuit Courts. Also, of great importance for us in this category are sherriffs' returns - whenever a judge ordered any sherriff or other county official to do something, a "return" showing what was done was legally required (even though that rule was often violated). BUT - and primary to this discussion - there is another category of documents and materials as to which the law has made NO provision, because such could not be anticipated with accuracy. Those are exactly what we now hope to help preserve, and consist of ALL those papers for which NO depository has been designated and no officer has been designated as "keeper." Such are the "Loose Papers." "Loose Papers" are just that; those usually written materials which were usually not "owned" by anybody who cared and were: a) left at the court house inadvertently or as not needed or any longer wanted by the citizens who once could have claimed such. As but two examples, 1) many are the deeds never picked up at the courthouse by the original buyers after recordation, and 2) copies of memos by the parishes that the court needed for whatever reason (their jurisdictions conflicted many times). b) the myriad exhibits, notes, and memos that were a part of a zillion grand and petit jury proceeding, coroners' proceedings, sheriffs and constables' activities, lawsuits and settlements now long ago concluded, notes by judges, petitions to the courts by the citizens, bonds posted for a hundered reasons, public notices and warnings judicially noted by the ancient judges, surveys, drawings and plats ordered by judges trying land disputes, ches - notice that many "estate files" you seek now consist of the inventory and appraisement only, even though there were many other writings in each of those cases, of which papers the clerks, etc., long ago disposed. c) The many memos and papers that once reported to the court what had been done by way of care for infants or the destitute, those reports and orders having to do with road work, documents that concerend land owned by the "Crown," the colony or the county, and those having to do with what few schools. d) Everything else not needed or required as part of the records of some other courthouse office, yet thought too important to throw away. SO, while someone may have once had some right to claim many of such, yet no citizen, court or official needed or any longer gave a hoot, those papers remained at the court house. BUT notice that the law did and does give Judges, their Clerks and several other officials (like a sherriff) the power to simply determine what else is "necessary and proper" for the harmonious operation of the county, those records are for our purposes the proiperty of the county/Circuit Court/Clerk. > > We are all fortunate that Surry's Clerks have preserved and passed down > to us nearly all of the records entrusted to them since 1652. This is no > mean feat, because that represents a LOT of records. ***PLEASE HEAR THIS, ALL; it is so important and we may be grateful to the Emmersons and the many Clerks before them > The good news, however, is that the Surry County Historical Society, in > just the three short years it has existed, is already aware of those > "loose papers," as well as many other items of historic importance in > the county. Now folks, there are legal, diplomatic, logistical, as well > as financial, elements in this equation that must be dealt with, in the > right way. This cannot be done quick and dirty, and I'm afraid there > will be no instant gratification for any of us as individuals. And I > cannot imagine that there will be any financial profit either. > > ....Rome was not built in a day, but it was built. Surry's "loose papers" > will not be indexed, microfilmed, transcribed and disseminated to the > public all at once, "right now," but it will be done. It will require > the cooperation of the appropriate governmental and civic entities and > officials, as well as private individuals. We all need to exercise our > patience and common sense in this matter, regardless of how we may feel.

Dear List On 28 Dec 1914 Benjamin H Van Oot married Miriam L Harris in Richmond VA. Attending the wedding were three ladies from Suffolk; Miss Bee Pugh, Miss Ruby Keller and Mis Mary Stallings. It is beleived that one or more of these ladies were cousins of Miriam L Harris either through a Harris line or a Williams line. Does anyone have any information on any of these ladies? Richard Stanley

May I suggest we give the "Surrey Loose Pages" a rest on this page before someone FLAMES someone else? In the meantime one or more of you might want to contact the Surrey Court Clerk, The Library of Virginia, or the Surrey Historical Society and then post an update '"from the source". Thank you, Olin When the fire has burned down low, Long after the day's even glow It's night. We rest. We add up our credits for the day And measure them against Jesus' way. We're sad. We've fallen short again. But as we fall asleep to dream, We ask God for another day, And for another chance. Olin Compton, 1975

Greetings All! I've been away from my computer for several days, so I've just found the flood of emails about the Surry County Circuit Court records. I see my name invoked several time, so I'll tell you what I think. But I speak only for myself as an individual, not for any corporate entity or government body. I share in the mixture of enthusiasm and frustration that I see in the "loose papers" discussion. I also confess to feeling a bit like a Native American when told about Columbus's discovery. I have lived in Surry County all my life and have worked with the Circuit Court records for nearly forty years. It's just possible I may know more about the situation than at least some of you, although I'm not interested in arguing the point. The Surry Circuit Court records are entrusted to the care of the popularly elected Clerk of the Circuit Court. The Clerk is legally responsible for what happens to them. The Clerk must operate within the budget provided by the Surry County Board of Supervisors. That means that the number of Deputy Clerks that can be hired is limited by that budget. The Clerk of the Circuit Court MUST perform duties set down by the law. The issues of today must be resolved BEFORE those of times past, whether the rest of us like it or not. Paul, perhaps you could expand upon the full range of duties of clerks of circuits courts in Virginia. I know they include verbatim recordation of court proceedings and handling all the details of those proceedings, issuance of various licenses (marriage, for instance), reception, recordation and preservation of other legal documents, including deeds, wills, mortgages, land surveys, and papers from lawsuits and others that do not come to my mind at the moment. We are all fortunate that Surry's Clerks have preserved and passed down to us nearly all of the records entrusted to them since 1652. This is no mean feat, because that represents a LOT of records. I'm positive that none of us has an accurate count of just how many that is. But that means that careful, thorough, accurate indexing, microfilming, and disseminating information from those "loose papers" will not be done instantly, no matter how much we all might wish it. The good news, however, is that the Surry County Historical Society, in just the three short years it has existed, is already aware of those "loose papers," as well as many other items of historic importance in the county. Now folks, there are legal, diplomatic, logistical, as well as financial, elements in this equation that must be dealt with, in the right way. This cannot be done quick and dirty, and I'm afraid there will be no instant gratification for any of us as individuals. And I cannot imagine that there will be any financial profit either. In case anyone is not aware that the Society's Newsletters contain transcriptions of original Surry documents that are not available anywhere else (the term "loose papers" comes to mind), perhaps you should take a look at them. They are all at the Society's web site, put there at the same hourly rate that Steve and Bunny get for the tax records they provide to the rest of us at the same price. Rome was not built in a day, but it was built. Surry's "loose papers" will not be indexed, microfilmed, transcribed and disseminated to the public all at once, "right now," but it will be done. It will require the cooperation of the appropriate governmental and civic entities and officials, as well as private individuals. We all need to exercise our patience and common sense in this matter, regardless of how we may feel. For some documents already transcribed and disseminated, check out the Society's Newsletters here: http://www.rootsweb.com/~vaschsm/SCHSNews.html A search engine on the main page can be used to search the entire site, including the Newsletters. Good Hunting, One and All! Eve ------------------------ Eve S. Gregory, Director Virginia Foundation for Archaeological Research, Inc. http://home.earthlink.net/~vfar1/ Visit my home page for history and genealogy links! http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~eve368g/

Margy, I agree. Let the more experienced people at the LVA do it. They undoubtedly have the equipment to perform the project efficiently. I would think that they would actually make a digital image first, anyway. It can then be enhanced before putting on film. Even if it goes directly to microfilm, it can and probably would be digitized anyway. It would be interesting to find out. The LVA also has a special fund that is used for genealogical projects. The URL of the LVA Foundation is: http://www.lva.lib.va.us/about/foundation/index.htm It says that you can restrict gifts to certain projects (one of which is a records project). However, it is not clear if you can restrict them down to the Surry Project. but there must be a way. However, a call to the Foundation should provide more info on how to contribute effectively to the Surry Project. I think this may be the most efficient use of your money. However, the discussion has provoked an interesting thought. The Foundation might collect more money if they went to the lists with specific projects in mind. People do seem more excited when the money is going to something in which they are involved. It is certainly in the best interest of records preservation if they get in there and film all records. A lot of their budget goes for general library work. A few months back the VA legislature was trying to cut their budget for genealogical work. I never heard the outcome, but I am sure they can use all the money they can get.

Hello, The discussion of late prompted me to go to the list archive for the earlier postings. May I quote Steve and Bunny's post. "As we left I asked the staff about those boxes. I was told that they were off limits because these contents were newly discovered loose court case papers and they were going to be microfilmed and categorized by the Library of Virginia. For more information I was to talk to the Surry County Historical Society which was 'right around the corner'." let me paraphase a little... talked to Dennis. Dennis said they were to be cat. & filmed by Lib. of Va. with assistance from a lady in NC who had done significant Surry research..wait for more info.... then Steve queried as to outcome of this if known. Sounds like they are not being ignored. But It is worth investigating what is going on and plans, for general knowledge and if any assistance is needed. Margy Go to vasouthside archives 2001 enter steve camera in search engine, two hits come up, this post is one of them

> If the person who does all this time consuming work can make a penny from > all their hard work, I say 'Go For IT'. > > Margaret On the Rockbridge project, the genealogical society sells the cd's, but the images are also in the USGenWeb Archives. Linda

VA-SOUTHSIDE-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > Subject: > > VA-SOUTHSIDE-D Digest Volume 01 : Issue 294 > > Today's Topics: > #1 Re: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] CONTRIBUTION ["Paul Drake" <martee@citlink.net>] > #2 [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Re: Surry Loose P ["Paul Drake" <martee@citlink.net>] > #3 Re: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Surry Loose P ["G. Lee Hearl" <glh@naxs.com>] > #4 Re: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Re: Surry Loo ["Sarah Keesee" <lydiap@salisbury.n] > #5 [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Repeat messages ["Teresa" <tshands@lv.rmci.net>] > > Administrivia: > To unsubscribe from VA-SOUTHSIDE-D, send a message to > VA-SOUTHSIDE-D-request@rootsweb.com > that contains in the body of the message the command > unsubscribe > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] CONTRIBUTION > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 20:48:05 -0500 > From: "Paul Drake" <martee@citlink.net> > To: VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com > > Thanks, Connie. I have noted your name/address, as I presume > someone in VA has also done. I will pass along whatever I come to > know ASAP. As should all, please understand that the Society (of > which I know precious little from this distance) must decide a) if > it will gain the permission of the county and 2) if it wishes to > move on the project. If it does, it needs but call a meeting (and a > committee, Lord forbid :) and determine the FIRST steps to be taken > or tell us it will NOT do so. If not, we all can go home. If it > does, it needs to commence the task. I say again that all who have > abstracted records, seen to the filming of such, written and > published the results perfectly understand that the processes of > gathering the materials and making preliminary decisions as to WHAT > to publish (print or net) and WHO it is that will be the boss and > who will do this and that work are NOT rocket science. We now > simply need to hold our advice, offer money for that express > purpose - as we have - and await a call by those powers-that-be. > Paul > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Re: Surry Loose Papers > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:12:26 -0500 > From: "Paul Drake" <martee@citlink.net> > To: VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com > > Hi, Sarah. Please do not think that I am disdainful of your view, > for I surely am not. I feel that this is not a complicated project, > however I have examined thousands of papers from courts and full > well realize that the many names buried in that tedious writing are > revealed only through experience. > > That writing in those thousands of documents is NOT readable by most > of us without great labor, and without an index to those names, the > work is next to useless. It would take a lifetime for the casual > researcher to even begin to search those records, and then all who > followed that researcher would travel the same road over and over > and over, to no benefit whatever for us all. > > While SOME volunteers are able - AND HAVE THE TIME - to decipher > 18th century writing, most are simply not able or have the days to > do so. If we can gain the assistance of such as Steve, Bunny and > Weynette Haun, we will be years ahead in accomplishing the task. Who > derives what funds, if any, and when are simply not what we should > be worried about now. Paul > > --- Original Message ----- > From: "Sarah Keesee" <lydiap@salisbury.net> > To: <VASURRY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:59 PM > Subject: Surry Loose Papers > > > Paul, this has gone in all directions from my request that > access be > > allowed to the Surry loose papers until I'm not sure it is > related. All I > > asked is that the papers be made available to someone such as > Bunny & Steve > > if they will photo & put on internet free of charge. For that I > was & will > > still be glad to contribute (modest amount) to them directly for > their > > expenses and for the time they put in. > > This has now snowballed into a full blown suggested project of > > organizing, > > publishing with every conceivable complicated method & process-- > a > > for-profit deal that the public is then expected to buy-- the > product they > > financed to get done. > > Any minute I'm expecting the organization to be incorporated with > shares > > offered. The Peter Principle is becoming a possiblity. > > > > Simple: one sheet at a time as taken from the box, no indexing, > no > > organization; I will be able to organize according to my needs. > That done, > > the photos can then be sorted, organized, indexed & put into any > type > > publication one wants for sale. > > > > So.....my offer is still good as described above. Otherwise, I > will have > > to see the final plans (if they ever come about) before I commit > to > > subsidizing the proposed project.. I'll just wait until some > enterprising > > soul is able to publish & then purchase a copy of their work... > of which I > > have no problem at all. Love the printed page! > > Best, > > Sarah > > > > > > > > ==== VASURRY Mailing List ==== > > Don't forget to check out the Surry County, Virginia, Historical > Society > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~vaschsm/Index.html > > List Mistress is Eve Gregory egregory20@earthlink.net > > > > > > ============================== > > Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history > > learning and how-to articles on the Internet. > > http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library > > > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Surry Loose Papers > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 22:50:21 -0700 > From: "G. Lee Hearl" <glh@naxs.com> > To: VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com > > >>Paul, this has gone in all directions from my request that access be > allowed to the Surry loose papers until I'm not sure it is related. All I > asked is that the papers be made available to someone such as Bunny & > Steve<< > Note: These "loose papers" are public records which probably will have to be > photographed in the presence of the County Court personell and not removed > from the courthouse.. After the copies are made the originals should be > filed properly in the Clerks Office.. The local Historical Society could > index the names contained and make copies available to the public. The index > and page numbers could be put on line so interested researchers could order > copies of pages of interest or have a local researcher transcribe the > information.. > Just a suggestion.. > G. Lee Hearl > Authentic Appalachian Storyteller > Abingdon, Va. > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Re: Surry Loose Papers > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 23:22:12 -0700 > From: "Sarah Keesee" <lydiap@salisbury.net> > To: VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com > > Paul, > This is the third copy of your message. I understood the first very well > and I'm glad you aren't disdainful of my view so I'll carry on: In my > little experience (miniscule compared to yours I'm sure) in organizing work > I've found that the simpler the better; the fewer the committees, the fewer > meetings the faster a project can be finished. Too many cooks and all that. > > I've also seen early writing and agree it is miserable--sometimes > impossible--at times to read. Since there is no order to them now, those > that are illegible could be set aside (with no damage done) until the last > with the note "illegible" or let the recipient of the photo copy decide. > In my own amateurish way, I have also indexed books & appreciate the time & > work it takes. So if this project is to include committees, meetings, > organizing, transcribing, indexing, THEN photo-ing and publishing, we will > be able to look forward to the finished product, with a little luck, June > 2020. Again the recipient can download the photos & index his own. He/she > is not going to be interested in every name in those boxes. Please give the > average researcher a little credit in being able to use records on his own. > All he needs is to SEE them. > This is my last on the subject. Please remove my name from the list of > contributors in fairness to the Historical Society so they won't be making > decisions depending on my donation. > As always, > My best > Sarah > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Drake" <martee@citlink.net> > To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 7:12 PM > Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Re: Surry Loose Papers > > > Hi, Sarah. Please do not think that I am disdainful of your view, > > for I surely am not. I feel that this is not a complicated project, > > however I have examined thousands of papers from courts and full > > well realize that the many names buried in that tedious writing are > > revealed only through experience. > > > > That writing in those thousands of documents is NOT readable by most > > of us without great labor, and without an index to those names, the > > work is next to useless. It would take a lifetime for the casual > > researcher to even begin to search those records, and then all who > > followed that researcher would travel the same road over and over > > and over, to no benefit whatever for us all. > > > > While SOME volunteers are able - AND HAVE THE TIME - to decipher > > 18th century writing, most are simply not able or have the days to > > do so. If we can gain the assistance of such as Steve, Bunny and > > Weynette Haun, we will be years ahead in accomplishing the task. Who > > derives what funds, if any, and when are simply not what we should > > be worried about now. Paul > > > > --- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sarah Keesee" <lydiap@salisbury.net> > > To: <VASURRY-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:59 PM > > Subject: Surry Loose Papers > > > > > > > Paul, this has gone in all directions from my request that > > access be > > > allowed to the Surry loose papers until I'm not sure it is > > related. All I > > > asked is that the papers be made available to someone such as > > Bunny & Steve > > > if they will photo & put on internet free of charge. For that I > > was & will > > > still be glad to contribute (modest amount) to them directly for > > their > > > expenses and for the time they put in. > > > This has now snowballed into a full blown suggested project of > > > organizing, > > > publishing with every conceivable complicated method & process-- > > a > > > for-profit deal that the public is then expected to buy-- the > > product they > > > financed to get done. > > > Any minute I'm expecting the organization to be incorporated with > > shares > > > offered. The Peter Principle is becoming a possiblity. > > > > > > Simple: one sheet at a time as taken from the box, no indexing, > > no > > > organization; I will be able to organize according to my needs. > > That done, > > > the photos can then be sorted, organized, indexed & put into any > > type > > > publication one wants for sale. > > > > > > So.....my offer is still good as described above. Otherwise, I > > will have > > > to see the final plans (if they ever come about) before I commit > > to > > > subsidizing the proposed project.. I'll just wait until some > > enterprising > > > soul is able to publish & then purchase a copy of their work... > > of which I > > > have no problem at all. Love the printed page! > > > Best, > > > Sarah > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== VASURRY Mailing List ==== > > > Don't forget to check out the Surry County, Virginia, Historical > > Society > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~vaschsm/Index.html > > > List Mistress is Eve Gregory egregory20@earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history > > > learning and how-to articles on the Internet. > > > http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library > > > > > > > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > > USGW Archives Pension Project > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/pensions/ > > > > > > ============================== > > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: > > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. > > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com > > > > > > ______________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Repeat messages > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 20:45:44 -0700 > From: "Teresa" <tshands@lv.rmci.net> > To: VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com > > Hi, all, > I'm not sure why, but I am getting at least two copies of every letter > that goes to VA-Southside list today. Is anyone else having this > problem ? > > Teresa Wouldn't it be a good idea to get in touch with the Library of Virginia to see if/when they plan to microfilm these loose papers? The may be agreeable to accepting donations to finance this project. Jean.

Hi Everyone! I am searching for the origin of Elisha Estes who was born between 1725 and 1740 probably in VA. There are many persons with this given name and it has been determined that this Elisha is not the one who married Mary Stone. This Elisha died in Roane Co. TN in 1818/19. His will had the name Eastus at the beginning but was signed as Estes. Since no spouse was mentioned we assume she was deceased. The will was made on 6 September 1818 and according to Roane County records, it was probated at the July 1819 Court session. Therefore, Elisha died some time between these dates. The will named the following children and some of the spouses are known: Elisha Estes . +Spouse Unknown. ( Not shown in the will). ........ 1 Elizabeth Estes b: 1754 ........... +Thomas Crumless ........ 2 Obadiah Eastes b: 04-July-1758 ........... +Francis Harvey ....... 3. Wilmoth Estes ........... +William Mullekin III 4. Jenny (Jincy) Estes ........... +Unknown Neighbour 5. Susanna Estes 6. Clary Estes ........... +unknown Webb ...... ..7. Mary Estes ........... + Warrick Bristow ........ 8 David Shipton Estes b: 1776 ........... +Kezziah unknown ........ 9 Elisha Estes, Jr b: 1778 We believe this family originated in VA as the children were born there. It has also been found that these families migrated into SC and some were shown on the 1790 census for District 96, Greenville Co. Also Obadiah was married in Edgefield SC in February 1792. Records also show the migration of these families into KY, TN and IN. This Elisha could have been born in another State and moved there where the children were born. It is possible he was a land speculator as an unidentified Elisha shows in VA Court records in several Counties We would appreciate any help you may have to offer! Best Regards Roy Eastes, Gulfport, MS

We appreciate everyone's comments, concerns and ideas on this subject. I want to say to all that your enthusiasm has been totally unexpected and delightfully appreciated !! This has been a great and long debate all about GENEALOGY and has great. We have everyone's email saved in a special folder. There has been over 100 messages so far. Thank you all. I think we've beaten this subject to it's limit and I fear some people may start to get tired of it. We do not want to kill your hopes by dragging it on and on and on. So we're going to just wait and see what happens, keep prodding the Historical Society until they start bouncing my emails, and if anything happens we'll pass it on to all. Keeping our fingers crossed............. Steve and Bunny P.S. You all know our email address. Please write us directly if you'd like!! --------- Subscribe to BINNS-L surname email list: mailto:BINNS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe&body=subscribe American Binns Families and Individuals: http://www.yspcbdesigns.com/americanb/index.htm 1790/1800 County Tax Lists of Virginia: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~ysbinns/vataxlists/index.htm

Dear Teresa and List, I think your ideas are correct about the copying of the Loose Papers. I think one important component of the project is to get an overview in writing with (1)an estimate of number of pieces, (2)dates of coverage and (3)their importance to the community. If possible, it would be good to enlist the help of a history-minded judge who might in-turn, convince members of the local Bar Association to contribute funds to a copying project. This has been done in other parts of the country with precious documents now saved for posterity. One might say the court has the best idea of their importance but space is critical with ever-expanding court documents. In a few years someone could decide they are not needed and have them discarded. I have run into that problem in counties (Not in VA) where such records just no longer exist. Rosa Wright ----- Original Message ----- From: Teresa <tshands@lv.rmci.net> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:37 PM Subject: Re: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Re: Surry Loose Papers > I think we should all slow down a little. This whole idea is still in > its infancy. Before anything can be done, the county has to allow > access to these papers. And they haven't said they will do that. Then > some organized entity, preferably the Surry Co Historical Society, > will have to agree to direct the project, which will include > soliciting the funding, choosing someone to photograph the pages, & > someone else to abstract the information from them, and then deciding > the best way to present them. I don't envy anyone these chores. But > until this is an official project with a concrete plan that is > accepting donations for that purpose, there is not much we listers can > do. I'm sure we'll be kept informed via the list of any developements. > > Teresa Shands > > http://gennetwork.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sarah Keesee <lydiap@salisbury.net> > To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:22 PM > Subject: Re: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Re: Surry Loose Papers > > > Paul, > This is the third copy of your message. I understood the first very > well > and I'm glad you aren't disdainful of my view so I'll carry on: In > my > little experience (miniscule compared to yours I'm sure) in organizing > work > I've found that the simpler the better; the fewer the committees, the > fewer > meetings the faster a project can be finished. Too many cooks and all > that. > > I've also seen early writing and agree it is miserable--sometimes > impossible--at times to read. Since there is no order to them now, > those > that are illegible could be set aside (with no damage done) until the > last > with the note "illegible" or let the recipient of the photo copy > decide. > In my own amateurish way, I have also indexed books & appreciate the > time & > work it takes. So if this project is to include committees, > meetings, > organizing, transcribing, indexing, THEN photo-ing and publishing, we > will > be able to look forward to the finished product, with a little luck, > June > 2020. Again the recipient can download the photos & index his own. > He/she > is not going to be interested in every name in those boxes. Please > give the > average researcher a little credit in being able to use records on his > own. > All he needs is to SEE them. > This is my last on the subject. Please remove my name from the list > of > contributors in fairness to the Historical Society so they won't be > making > decisions depending on my donation. > As always, > My best > Sarah > > ---- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Drake" <martee@citlink.net> > To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 7:12 PM > Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Re: Surry Loose Papers > > > > Hi, Sarah. Please do not think that I am disdainful of your view, > > for I surely am not. I feel that this is not a complicated project, > > however I have examined thousands of papers from courts and full > > well realize that the many names buried in that tedious writing are > > revealed only through experience. > > > > That writing in those thousands of documents is NOT readable by most > > of us without great labor, and without an index to those names, the > > work is next to useless. It would take a lifetime for the casual > > researcher to even begin to search those records, and then all who > > followed that researcher would travel the same road over and over > > and over, to no benefit whatever for us all. > > > > While SOME volunteers are able - AND HAVE THE TIME - to decipher > > 18th century writing, most are simply not able or have the days to > > do so. If we can gain the assistance of such as Steve, Bunny and > > Weynette Haun, we will be years ahead in accomplishing the task. Who > > derives what funds, if any, and when are simply not what we should > > be worried about now. Paul > > > > --- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sarah Keesee" <lydiap@salisbury.net> > > To: <VASURRY-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:59 PM > > Subject: Surry Loose Papers > > > > > > > Paul, this has gone in all directions from my request that > > access be > > > allowed to the Surry loose papers until I'm not sure it is > > related. All I > > > asked is that the papers be made available to someone such as > > Bunny & Steve > > > if they will photo & put on internet free of charge. For that I > > was & will > > > still be glad to contribute (modest amount) to them directly for > > their > > > expenses and for the time they put in. > > > This has now snowballed into a full blown suggested project of > > > organizing, > > > publishing with every conceivable complicated method & process-- > > a > > > for-profit deal that the public is then expected to buy-- the > > product they > > > financed to get done. > > > Any minute I'm expecting the organization to be incorporated with > > shares > > > offered. The Peter Principle is becoming a possiblity. > > > > > > Simple: one sheet at a time as taken from the box, no indexing, > > no > > > organization; I will be able to organize according to my needs. > > That done, > > > the photos can then be sorted, organized, indexed & put into any > > type > > > publication one wants for sale. > > > > > > So.....my offer is still good as described above. Otherwise, I > > will have > > > to see the final plans (if they ever come about) before I commit > > to > > > subsidizing the proposed project.. I'll just wait until some > > enterprising > > > soul is able to publish & then purchase a copy of their work... > > of which I > > > have no problem at all. Love the printed page! > > > Best, > > > Sarah > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== VASURRY Mailing List ==== > > > Don't forget to check out the Surry County, Virginia, Historical > > Society > > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~vaschsm/Index.html > > > List Mistress is Eve Gregory egregory20@earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history > > > learning and how-to articles on the Internet. > > > http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library > > > > > > > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > > USGW Archives Pension Project > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/pensions/ > > > > > > ============================== > > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: > > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. > > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com > > > > > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > The USGenWeb Project http://www.usgenweb.org > > > ============================== > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com > > > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > Hosted by Rootsweb http://www.rootsweb.com > > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp >

Paul, This is the third copy of your message. I understood the first very well and I'm glad you aren't disdainful of my view so I'll carry on: In my little experience (miniscule compared to yours I'm sure) in organizing work I've found that the simpler the better; the fewer the committees, the fewer meetings the faster a project can be finished. Too many cooks and all that. I've also seen early writing and agree it is miserable--sometimes impossible--at times to read. Since there is no order to them now, those that are illegible could be set aside (with no damage done) until the last with the note "illegible" or let the recipient of the photo copy decide. In my own amateurish way, I have also indexed books & appreciate the time & work it takes. So if this project is to include committees, meetings, organizing, transcribing, indexing, THEN photo-ing and publishing, we will be able to look forward to the finished product, with a little luck, June 2020. Again the recipient can download the photos & index his own. He/she is not going to be interested in every name in those boxes. Please give the average researcher a little credit in being able to use records on his own. All he needs is to SEE them. This is my last on the subject. Please remove my name from the list of contributors in fairness to the Historical Society so they won't be making decisions depending on my donation. As always, My best Sarah ---- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Drake" <martee@citlink.net> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 7:12 PM Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Re: Surry Loose Papers > Hi, Sarah. Please do not think that I am disdainful of your view, > for I surely am not. I feel that this is not a complicated project, > however I have examined thousands of papers from courts and full > well realize that the many names buried in that tedious writing are > revealed only through experience. > > That writing in those thousands of documents is NOT readable by most > of us without great labor, and without an index to those names, the > work is next to useless. It would take a lifetime for the casual > researcher to even begin to search those records, and then all who > followed that researcher would travel the same road over and over > and over, to no benefit whatever for us all. > > While SOME volunteers are able - AND HAVE THE TIME - to decipher > 18th century writing, most are simply not able or have the days to > do so. If we can gain the assistance of such as Steve, Bunny and > Weynette Haun, we will be years ahead in accomplishing the task. Who > derives what funds, if any, and when are simply not what we should > be worried about now. Paul > > --- Original Message ----- > From: "Sarah Keesee" <lydiap@salisbury.net> > To: <VASURRY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:59 PM > Subject: Surry Loose Papers > > > > Paul, this has gone in all directions from my request that > access be > > allowed to the Surry loose papers until I'm not sure it is > related. All I > > asked is that the papers be made available to someone such as > Bunny & Steve > > if they will photo & put on internet free of charge. For that I > was & will > > still be glad to contribute (modest amount) to them directly for > their > > expenses and for the time they put in. > > This has now snowballed into a full blown suggested project of > > organizing, > > publishing with every conceivable complicated method & process-- > a > > for-profit deal that the public is then expected to buy-- the > product they > > financed to get done. > > Any minute I'm expecting the organization to be incorporated with > shares > > offered. The Peter Principle is becoming a possiblity. > > > > Simple: one sheet at a time as taken from the box, no indexing, > no > > organization; I will be able to organize according to my needs. > That done, > > the photos can then be sorted, organized, indexed & put into any > type > > publication one wants for sale. > > > > So.....my offer is still good as described above. Otherwise, I > will have > > to see the final plans (if they ever come about) before I commit > to > > subsidizing the proposed project.. I'll just wait until some > enterprising > > soul is able to publish & then purchase a copy of their work... > of which I > > have no problem at all. Love the printed page! > > Best, > > Sarah > > > > > > > > ==== VASURRY Mailing List ==== > > Don't forget to check out the Surry County, Virginia, Historical > Society > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~vaschsm/Index.html > > List Mistress is Eve Gregory egregory20@earthlink.net > > > > > > ============================== > > Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history > > learning and how-to articles on the Internet. > > http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library > > > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > USGW Archives Pension Project > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/pensions/ > > > ============================== > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com > >

>>Paul, this has gone in all directions from my request that access be allowed to the Surry loose papers until I'm not sure it is related. All I asked is that the papers be made available to someone such as Bunny & Steve<< Note: These "loose papers" are public records which probably will have to be photographed in the presence of the County Court personell and not removed from the courthouse.. After the copies are made the originals should be filed properly in the Clerks Office.. The local Historical Society could index the names contained and make copies available to the public. The index and page numbers could be put on line so interested researchers could order copies of pages of interest or have a local researcher transcribe the information.. Just a suggestion.. G. Lee Hearl Authentic Appalachian Storyteller Abingdon, Va.

And a big AMEN to that!!!! (The offer still holds, but we need to remember to KISS) Doris....A Texan in Georgia..... Still shaking the family tree and dodging the nuts after 30+ years! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Keesee" <lydiap@salisbury.net> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:59 PM Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Surry Loose Papers > Paul, this has gone in all directions from my request that access be > allowed to the Surry loose papers until I'm not sure it is related. All I > asked is that the papers be made available to someone such as Bunny & Steve > if they will photo & put on internet free of charge. For that I was & will > still be glad to contribute (modest amount) to them directly for their > expenses and for the time they put in. > This has now snowballed into a full blown suggested project of > organizing, > publishing with every conceivable complicated method & process-- a > for-profit deal that the public is then expected to buy-- the product they > financed to get done. > Any minute I'm expecting the organization to be incorporated with shares > offered. The Peter Principle is becoming a possiblity. > > Simple: one sheet at a time as taken from the box, no indexing, no > organization; I will be able to organize according to my needs. That done, > the photos can then be sorted, organized, indexed & put into any type > publication one wants for sale. > > So.....my offer is still good as described above. Otherwise, I will have > to see the final plans (if they ever come about) before I commit to > subsidizing the proposed project.. I'll just wait until some enterprising > soul is able to publish & then purchase a copy of their work... of which I > have no problem at all. Love the printed page! > Best, > Sarah > > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > Hosted by Rootsweb http://www.rootsweb.com > > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history > learning and how-to articles on the Internet. > http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library > >

I think we should all slow down a little. This whole idea is still in its infancy. Before anything can be done, the county has to allow access to these papers. And they haven't said they will do that. Then some organized entity, preferably the Surry Co Historical Society, will have to agree to direct the project, which will include soliciting the funding, choosing someone to photograph the pages, & someone else to abstract the information from them, and then deciding the best way to present them. I don't envy anyone these chores. But until this is an official project with a concrete plan that is accepting donations for that purpose, there is not much we listers can do. I'm sure we'll be kept informed via the list of any developements. Teresa Shands http://gennetwork.org ----- Original Message ----- From: Sarah Keesee <lydiap@salisbury.net> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:22 PM Subject: Re: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Re: Surry Loose Papers Paul, This is the third copy of your message. I understood the first very well and I'm glad you aren't disdainful of my view so I'll carry on: In my little experience (miniscule compared to yours I'm sure) in organizing work I've found that the simpler the better; the fewer the committees, the fewer meetings the faster a project can be finished. Too many cooks and all that. I've also seen early writing and agree it is miserable--sometimes impossible--at times to read. Since there is no order to them now, those that are illegible could be set aside (with no damage done) until the last with the note "illegible" or let the recipient of the photo copy decide. In my own amateurish way, I have also indexed books & appreciate the time & work it takes. So if this project is to include committees, meetings, organizing, transcribing, indexing, THEN photo-ing and publishing, we will be able to look forward to the finished product, with a little luck, June 2020. Again the recipient can download the photos & index his own. He/she is not going to be interested in every name in those boxes. Please give the average researcher a little credit in being able to use records on his own. All he needs is to SEE them. This is my last on the subject. Please remove my name from the list of contributors in fairness to the Historical Society so they won't be making decisions depending on my donation. As always, My best Sarah ---- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Drake" <martee@citlink.net> To: <VA-SOUTHSIDE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 7:12 PM Subject: [VA-SOUTHSIDE-L] Re: Surry Loose Papers > Hi, Sarah. Please do not think that I am disdainful of your view, > for I surely am not. I feel that this is not a complicated project, > however I have examined thousands of papers from courts and full > well realize that the many names buried in that tedious writing are > revealed only through experience. > > That writing in those thousands of documents is NOT readable by most > of us without great labor, and without an index to those names, the > work is next to useless. It would take a lifetime for the casual > researcher to even begin to search those records, and then all who > followed that researcher would travel the same road over and over > and over, to no benefit whatever for us all. > > While SOME volunteers are able - AND HAVE THE TIME - to decipher > 18th century writing, most are simply not able or have the days to > do so. If we can gain the assistance of such as Steve, Bunny and > Weynette Haun, we will be years ahead in accomplishing the task. Who > derives what funds, if any, and when are simply not what we should > be worried about now. Paul > > --- Original Message ----- > From: "Sarah Keesee" <lydiap@salisbury.net> > To: <VASURRY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:59 PM > Subject: Surry Loose Papers > > > > Paul, this has gone in all directions from my request that > access be > > allowed to the Surry loose papers until I'm not sure it is > related. All I > > asked is that the papers be made available to someone such as > Bunny & Steve > > if they will photo & put on internet free of charge. For that I > was & will > > still be glad to contribute (modest amount) to them directly for > their > > expenses and for the time they put in. > > This has now snowballed into a full blown suggested project of > > organizing, > > publishing with every conceivable complicated method & process-- > a > > for-profit deal that the public is then expected to buy-- the > product they > > financed to get done. > > Any minute I'm expecting the organization to be incorporated with > shares > > offered. The Peter Principle is becoming a possiblity. > > > > Simple: one sheet at a time as taken from the box, no indexing, > no > > organization; I will be able to organize according to my needs. > That done, > > the photos can then be sorted, organized, indexed & put into any > type > > publication one wants for sale. > > > > So.....my offer is still good as described above. Otherwise, I > will have > > to see the final plans (if they ever come about) before I commit > to > > subsidizing the proposed project.. I'll just wait until some > enterprising > > soul is able to publish & then purchase a copy of their work... > of which I > > have no problem at all. Love the printed page! > > Best, > > Sarah > > > > > > > > ==== VASURRY Mailing List ==== > > Don't forget to check out the Surry County, Virginia, Historical > Society > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~vaschsm/Index.html > > List Mistress is Eve Gregory egregory20@earthlink.net > > > > > > ============================== > > Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history > > learning and how-to articles on the Internet. > > http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library > > > > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== > USGW Archives Pension Project > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/pensions/ > > > ============================== > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com > > ==== VA-SOUTHSIDE Mailing List ==== The USGenWeb Project http://www.usgenweb.org ============================== Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com

Hi, Sarah. Please do not think that I am disdainful of your view, for I surely am not. I feel that this is not a complicated project, however I have examined thousands of papers from courts and full well realize that the many names buried in that tedious writing are revealed only through experience. That writing in those thousands of documents is NOT readable by most of us without great labor, and without an index to those names, the work is next to useless. It would take a lifetime for the casual researcher to even begin to search those records, and then all who followed that researcher would travel the same road over and over and over, to no benefit whatever for us all. While SOME volunteers are able - AND HAVE THE TIME - to decipher 18th century writing, most are simply not able or have the days to do so. If we can gain the assistance of such as Steve, Bunny and Weynette Haun, we will be years ahead in accomplishing the task. Who derives what funds, if any, and when are simply not what we should be worried about now. Paul --- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Keesee" <lydiap@salisbury.net> To: <VASURRY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:59 PM Subject: Surry Loose Papers > Paul, this has gone in all directions from my request that access be > allowed to the Surry loose papers until I'm not sure it is related. All I > asked is that the papers be made available to someone such as Bunny & Steve > if they will photo & put on internet free of charge. For that I was & will > still be glad to contribute (modest amount) to them directly for their > expenses and for the time they put in. > This has now snowballed into a full blown suggested project of > organizing, > publishing with every conceivable complicated method & process-- a > for-profit deal that the public is then expected to buy-- the product they > financed to get done. > Any minute I'm expecting the organization to be incorporated with shares > offered. The Peter Principle is becoming a possiblity. > > Simple: one sheet at a time as taken from the box, no indexing, no > organization; I will be able to organize according to my needs. That done, > the photos can then be sorted, organized, indexed & put into any type > publication one wants for sale. > > So.....my offer is still good as described above. Otherwise, I will have > to see the final plans (if they ever come about) before I commit to > subsidizing the proposed project.. I'll just wait until some enterprising > soul is able to publish & then purchase a copy of their work... of which I > have no problem at all. Love the printed page! > Best, > Sarah > > > > ==== VASURRY Mailing List ==== > Don't forget to check out the Surry County, Virginia, Historical Society > http://www.rootsweb.com/~vaschsm/Index.html > List Mistress is Eve Gregory egregory20@earthlink.net > > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history > learning and how-to articles on the Internet. > http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library >