Thanks. I guess I don't see the harm in discussing this information even if it is considered old news. Some people may not see it that way.    Anyway, I must move on to other things so will not be commenting further on this subject.   From: Craig Kilby <persisto1@gmail.com> To: DAVID BROWN <dbrown544@prodigy.net>; va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2012 5:58 PM Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Richard Ball, possible father of Wm the Immigrannt Don, I really must apologize. This is such old news to me that I get agitated. Heck'd book is interesting up to page 5. Then it is ridiculous. Walne tries to fix parts of that. You have to read both of them. Then you have to go back to Hayden, and then back from there. As we speak, efforts are underway to build a FAQ page to put a permanent end to this repetitive stream of unconscienceness. This will include links to articles. There are copyright issues to resolve. Craig

David, Wow. I do not how your are coming up with these conclusions. The only "parchments" I can remember reading about were papers only Hayden had seen. Not Walne. Walne never said anything except that William Ball, the emigrant, was NOT from Barkham Manor, he MAY have been from Northamptonshire, and that Hanna his wife was NOT a daughter of Thomas Atherold of London. There is nothing difficult here. Craig On Nov 1, 2012, at 1:50 PM, DAVID BROWN wrote: > Thanks Kathleen. I have read the Walne article, and he does not state William Ball of Virginia may be a son of Richard Ball of Northamptonshire. He only states that William Ball may be connected to the Northamptonshire family. However, I think Walne's statement to this effect is based on very flimsy evidence (a Parchment that no one has seen) and not sure how this meets the genealogical standards/expectations as set forth by others on this List. Recently, I quoted a late 1500's will from Suffolk, England which specifically mentioned a Ball and was told it was fantastic and speculative. Yet, it seems List members are more than willing to accept Walne's statement regarding the Northamptonshire Ball family which is based on a supposed parchment invented by Heck (not Hayden). I don't get it. Is it because Walne is published and therefore given more freedom to speculate as he pleases??? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kathleen Much <much.bookdr@gmail.com> > Sender: va-northern-neck-bounces@rootsweb.com > Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 06:30:17 > To: va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com<va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com> > Reply-To: va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com > Subject: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Richard Ball, > possible father of Wm the Immigrannt > > Here's what Peter Walne said about the Richard Ball he thought might possibly be (Walne did not claim he was) William's father: > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VA-NORTHERN-NECK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! Begin forwarded message: > From: Donna Price <dpsqrd@gmail.com> > Date: November 1, 2012, 2:51:03 PM EDT > To: Bartlett Jim <jim4bartletts@verizon.net> > Subject: Fwd: sources > > There should not be a copyright infringement if the source is quoted. > > Sent from my iPad > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Donna Price <dpsqrd@gmail.com> >> Date: November 1, 2012, 1:46:06 PM CDT >> To: "persisto1@gmail.com" <persisto1@gmail.com> >> Cc: BROWN DAVID <dbrown544@prodigy.net> >> Subject: sources >> >> Craig, >> The person who quoted the Walne article has listed all his sources at the end of the article. >> >> Walne, Peter, Virginia Magazine of History and Biography 67: 399-405, pp. 16-22. Reprinted in Genealogies of Virginia Families from the Virginia Magazine of History and Biogrphy. 1981, Genealogical Pub. Co., Baltimore, Maryland. >> >> All five volumes of Genealogies of Va. Families from The Va. Magazine of History and Biography are for sale for $350. They would be a good purchase by MBW. >> >> Donna >> >> My emails are being rejected by Rootsweb. We are in Colby, KS on our way to Denver. >> >> Sent from my iPad

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 11:34 PM, Craig Kilby <persisto1@gmail.com> wrote: > Peter Walne article was published in the Virginia Magazine of History & > Biography in Vol. 67 No. 4 (October 1959) That is a long time in light of all the new records coming to the forefront. Has anyone validated this in recent time with all the new records and information available? Given the source I am sure they believed it correct in 1959 but we all have seen corrections based on newly available information -- Douglas Burnett Satellite Beach FL As a member of the Association of Professional Genealogists (APG), the National Genealogical Society (NGS), the Florida State Genealogical Society(FSGS) and the Virginia Genealogical Society(VGS), I support and adhere to the APG's Code of Ethics.

Craig,   The Walne article clearly states that Heck was the one who invented this bizarre parchment theory.  The quote (as Kathleen has already shared) is right here in Walne's own words (I don't see Heyden mentioned at all):     "Heck [note: _Colonel William Ball of Virginia_, pp. 16 ff. The arms are _Argent a lion passant sable on a chief of the second three mullets of the first_ with a crest _Out of clouds proper a demi lion rampant sable holding a globe or_.] shows clearly that the arms which were known to and claimed by the family in Virginia were identical or very similar to those granted in 1613 to Dr. Richard Ball, son of Lawrence Ball of Northamptonshire.   If Heck's statement is correct and Colonel William Ball did indeed bring 'an illuminated parchment' when he emigrated from England, then the origins of the family must be sought in the Northamptonshire line"   From: Craig Kilby <persisto1@gmail.com> To: DAVID BROWN <dbrown544@prodigy.net>; va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2012 3:27 PM Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Richard Ball, possible father of Wm the Immigrannt David, Wow. I do not how your are coming up with these conclusions. The only "parchments" I can remember reading about were papers only Hayden had seen. Not Walne. Walne never said anything except that William Ball, the emigrant, was NOT from Barkham Manor, he MAY have been from Northamptonshire, and that Hanna his wife was NOT a daughter of Thomas Atherold of London. There is nothing difficult here. Craig

Well I don't advocate for copyright infringement. Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! On Nov 1, 2012, at 8:27 AM, Craig Kilby <persisto1@gmail.com> wrote: > Jim, yeah. I'll get right on that. If you have access to JSTOR you can find the article there. Severe copyright and access issues involved. It would be easier to go through VHS and post it through a link at MBW. That too requires permission issues. It seems to be simpler for others to just find a pirate copy and shamelessly slap it up on the internet without a care about professional ethics or being sued. > > Craig > > On Nov 1, 2012, at 8:17 AM, Jim Bartlett wrote: > >> Craig >> >> Perhaps a short summary posted in the NN Tree with a hyperlink to the full article... >> >> Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime!

For those who may have forgot, it is a good idea to bookmark this URL so that we do not have to revisit things that have been thoroughly discussed, chewed up, and mulled over in the past 3 years: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=va-northern-neck ALSO, for those who did not read the memo, we have a very robust and well documented tree on ancestry.com managed by Jim Bartlett. it is FREE even if you do not subscribe to ancestry.com. If you do not subscribe to ancestry, all you have to do is send Jim an email. The URL at ancestry is: http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/30617119/family?cfpid=12287870034 And Jim's email is: jim4bartletts@verizon.net

I thought the Northamptonshire coat of arms story was invented by Heck instead of Heyden??? From: Craig Kilby <persisto1@gmail.com> To: va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2012 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] William Ball (died Nov. 1680) & Hannah Atherold Jim, Indeed. I think these "coats of arms" were part of the Joseph Ball estate scam in the late 1870s. Horace Heyden apparently fell for it. I have yet to see ANY of these reported coats of arms, either in Virginia or in New England.  Craig

Thanks Kathleen.  I have read the Walne article, and he does not state William Ball of Virginia may be a son of Richard Ball of Northamptonshire.   He only states that William Ball may be connected to the Northamptonshire family.  However, I think Walne's statement to this effect is based on very flimsy evidence (a Parchment that no one has seen) and not sure how this meets the genealogical standards/expectations as set forth by others on this List.   Recently, I quoted a late 1500's will from Suffolk, England which specifically mentioned a Ball and was told it was fantastic and speculative.  Yet, it seems List members are more than willing to accept Walne's statement regarding the Northamptonshire Ball family which is based on a supposed parchment invented by Heck (not Hayden).  I don't get it.  Is it because Walne is published and therefore given more freedom to speculate as he pleases???   -----Original Message----- From: Kathleen Much <much.bookdr@gmail.com> Sender: va-northern-neck-bounces@rootsweb.com Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 06:30:17 To: va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com<va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com> Reply-To: va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com Subject: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Richard Ball,       possible father of Wm the Immigrannt   Here's what Peter Walne said about the Richard Ball he thought might possibly be (Walne did not claim he was) William's father:

Jim, Indeed. I think these "coats of arms" were part of the Joseph Ball estate scam in the late 1870s. Horace Heyden apparently fell for it. I have yet to see ANY of these reported coats of arms, either in Virginia or in New England. Craig On Nov 1, 2012, at 8:21 AM, Jim Bartlett wrote: > Craig > > Were Coats of Arms common in the Colonies? As I understand them, most Colonists were no more entitled to them than we are. I would think such a parchment would be a dead giveaway. > > Jim -

Jim, yeah. I'll get right on that. If you have access to JSTOR you can find the article there. Severe copyright and access issues involved. It would be easier to go through VHS and post it through a link at MBW. That too requires permission issues. It seems to be simpler for others to just find a pirate copy and shamelessly slap it up on the internet without a care about professional ethics or being sued. Craig On Nov 1, 2012, at 8:17 AM, Jim Bartlett wrote: > Craig > > Perhaps a short summary posted in the NN Tree with a hyperlink to the full article... > > Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! >

Craig Were Coats of Arms common in the Colonies? As I understand them, most Colonists were no more entitled to them than we are. I would think such a parchment would be a dead giveaway. Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! On Oct 31, 2012, at 11:56 PM, Craig Kilby <persisto1@gmail.com> wrote: > David, > > You are absolutely right that I was wrong. The Walne article does indeed say Northamptonshire, not Lincolnshire. It is all very iffy. The "Coats of Arms" is a lingering mystery. > > Craig > > On Oct 31, 2012, at 10:48 PM, DAVID BROWN wrote: > >> Thanks Donna. I have the article and was trying to figure out why Craig alluded to Richard Ball of Lincolnshire. It looks like Craig made a mistake and meant to say Northamptonshire instead of Lincolnshire. Anyway, I find it humorous that Walne SPECULATES of a Northamptonshire connection based on an ALLEGED parchment (with Coat of Arms) which William Ball, died Nov. 1680, SUPPOSEDLY brought with him to the colonies. >> >> >> From: Donna Price <dpsqrd@gmail.com> >> Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] William Ball (died Nov. 1680) & Hannah Atherold >> >> David, >> I found the article online. >> Walne proposes that a more likely ancestor would be Dr. Richard Ball, of Northamptonshire. I include the entire article here with his footnotes. >> http://www.afamilytree.net/milesforsite/dispute.html >> From: Craig Kilby <persisto@live.com> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 4:50 PM >>> Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] William Ball (died Nov. 1680) & Hannah Atherold >>> >>> If you will read the rest of the Walne article, he opens a wide door as to William Ball being the son of Richard Ball of Lincolnshire. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VA-NORTHERN-NECK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VA-NORTHERN-NECK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Craig Perhaps a short summary posted in the NN Tree with a hyperlink to the full article... Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! On Oct 31, 2012, at 11:34 PM, Craig Kilby <persisto1@gmail.com> wrote: > David, the Peter Walne article was published in the Virginia Magazine of History & Biography in Vol. 67 No. 4 (October 1959), pages 399-405. The title is "The English Ancestry of Colonel William Ball of Millenbeck." The title is a misnomer, because it does not determine any ancestry for William-1 Ball, it simply disproves the Barkam Manor stuff. > > It is recommended reading. In fact, I am going to recommend that the Mary Ball Washington Museum & Library gets permission from the Virginia Historical Society to reprint it on on our website so that this business about William-1 Ball being born at Barkam can can have a permanent bullet to its head to be fired when needed. > > As to the possible Lincolnshire origins from Rev. Richard Ball...it is just a possibility and it has never, to my knowledge, been tested. Walne opens that door in his article, which I encourage you to read. The article does NOT come out and say this, nor does it provide any evidence--or even claim to having done any research--on this. It also explores SOME London records. Nothing is claimed to be conclusive except that William-1 Ball of Lancaster County WAS NOT born at Barkham Manor. > > Craig

Here's what Peter Walne said about the Richard Ball he thought might possibly be (Walne did not claim he was) William's father: "In the problem of the Ball ancestry, the approach most likely to lead to a solution is a reconsideration of the heraldic evidence. When William Ball [of London and Berkshire] recorded his pedigree he recorded his arms _Azure on a cross pierced of the field or four galtraps of the first_ with a crest, _A galtrap azure the upward point bloody_. Had there been a close connection between the Balls of Berkshire and Virginia, one would have expected to find these arms or some close approximation to them used in the Virginia branch of the family. Heck [note: _Colonel William Ball of Virginia_, pp. 16 ff. The arms are _Argent a lion passant sable on a chief of the second three mullets of the first_ with a crest _Out of clouds proper a demi lion rampant sable holding a globe or_.] shows clearly that the arms which were known to and claimed by the family in Virginia were identical or very similar to those granted in 1613 to Dr. Richard Ball, son of Lawrence Ball of Northamptonshire. If Heck's statement is correct and Colonel William Ball did indeed bring 'an illuminated parchment' when he emigrated from England, then the origins of the family must be sought in the Northamptonshire line. On the heraldic evidence, there is nothing inherently improbable in the descent he postulates for the Balls of Lancaster County, though admittedly the pedigree which results from this is by no means as tidy as the one at present traditionally favoured. It is impossible, however, heraldically to claim one descent, as is the case in _Burke's Landed Gentry_, from a family entitled to bear arms and to append to the descent the arms of an entirely different family, albeit of the same name. One is wrong, descent or arms. If Colonel William did bring a representation of the Northamptonshire arms with him, then his evidence of descent antedates the Downman pedigree evidence and the lines which it suggests should be followed."

For those who want to read Walne's article, here are two ways to find it (I cited the first one yesterday). Good genealogical or historical libraries should have one or both. Peter Walne, "The English Ancestry of Colonel William Ball of Millenbeck," Virginia Magazine of History and Biography, vol. 67:399-405. Reprinted in _Genealogies of Virginia Families from the Virginia Magazine of History and Biography_ (Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., 1981), vol. 1, pp. 16-22. Here are pertinent excerpts I have transcribed: "From the time of Joseph Ball II of Lancaster County, many attempts have been made to establish the English pedigree of Colonel William Ball of Millenbeck, first Virginia ancestor of George Washington's mother. . . . "It was perhaps unfortunate that by the time Joseph Ball II began to conduct his own researches into his ancestry in the 1740s, during his long residence in England, passage of time appears to have dimmed to the point of extinction the clear light of true knowledge of his family's origins. For instance, Joseph was not certain of grandmother Hannah's surname, as letters to Joseph Chinn of July 17, 1745, and May 23, 1747, and to his cousin Mrs. Ellen Ball Chichester in 1745 in his letter book show. . . . "Traditionally, Colonel William is said to have been the son of William Ball of Lincoln's Inn, one of the four Sworn Attorneys of the Court of the Exchequer of Pleas in London. [note: The pedigree of Ball of Barkham and Wokingham recorded by this William Ball at the Herald's Visitation of London in 1634/5, and now amongst the records of the College of Arms, volume C.24, seems to have been the starting point of almost all past Ball researches. This pedigree is printed in _Visitations of Berkshire_, I, 62 (Harleian Society, vol. LVII, London, 1908).] In recording his pedigree and arms before the Heralds, William gave a line of descent back to the late fifteenth century in the parish of Barkham in Berkshire. His first ancestor was himself a William said to have died in 1480, [note: Not, as in the Downman family Bible and the account in the 1939 edition of _Burke's Landed Gentry_, lord of the manor of Barkham, but merely an inhabitant of the parish possibly of yeoman status.] leaving a son, Robert, said to have died in 1543 but most probably the Robert whose burial is recorded on May 30, 1546, in the Barkham parish register. [note: I am indebted to the vicar, the Reverend C.C. Roycroft, for permission to inspect the first parish register, still in his custody, from which the entries relating to Balls in Barkham are quoted.] Robert by his wife Margaret, who was buried on June 13, 1542, left two sons, William 'to whom his father gave all his personal estate, died 1550. Lived at Wokingham,' and Edward 'to whom his father gave all his lands.' Edward died in 1558, was buried on August 21 leaving a will proved in October 1558 from which it appears he left a wife, Agnes, and two daughters. William, the elder son, married Margaret Moody and had by her a son, John, and three daughters. John succeeded to his father's lands in Wokingham and took to himself two wives, one of whom, Agnes, daughter of Richard Holloway of Barkham, died without issue, and the other, Alice Haynes of Finchampstead, bore him four sons and three daughters. John died in 1599 and, according to the wish expressed in his will, was buried in the churchyard at Wokingham. [note: His will was proved in the Court of the Dean of Salisbury as the parish was a part of that ecclesiastical peculiar. I am indebted to my colleague, M.G. Rathbone, County Archivist, Wiltshire, for a photostat of this will now in his custody with the other probate records of this Court.] The eldest survivor of the children of John and Alice Ball was another John, tenant of the manor of Evendons in Wokingham, who married Elizabeth, daughter of Thomas Webb of Ruscombe near Wokingham, [note: This Elizabeth was not, as the pedigree in _Burke's Landed Gentry_, 1939 edition, says, the wife of John Ball who died in 1599. Two generations have been conflated in that account.] by whom he had five sons and six daughters before her burial at Wokingham on September 12, 1616. [note: The parish registers of Wokingham do not begin before 1674. An almost complete series of 'Bishop's Transcripts,' 1600-1640, exists in the records of the Dean of Salisbury, now housed at Salisbury. . .] John himself is reputed to have died in 1628, but no trace of his will or of his burial at Wokingham have been found. "The first-born and eldest surviving child of John Ball at the time of his death was William. The exact date of his birth is not known, but it was probably in 1603. [note: In March 1639 Robert Ball of Holshot, Hampshire, gentleman, died. This Robert was brother to John Ball who died in 1599 and uncle of William. He held certain lands in Wiltshire and Hampshire by feudal tenure and his death necessitated an _Inquisition Post Mortem_ into these lands. This ends with a statement of the relationship between Robert and William and also says that William's age in 1639 was about 36, i.e., he was born about 1603. The Bishop's Transcripts of the Wokingham registers are deficient for the years 1602 to 1606. The inquisition on Robert's death is P.R.O., _Chancery I.P.M._, 15 Chas I, pt. I, no. 99.] This is the William traditionally asserted to have been father to Colonel William of Millenbeck. [note: The preceding brief account, as modified by reference to original sources, is based on the pedigree as recorded in 1634/5. From local Berkshire records in the Berks Record Office, Reading, it could be amplified.] . . . "On September 1, 1623, William Ball, son and heir of John Ball of Wokingham, gentleman, was admitted to Lincoln's Inn to commence his studies as an embryo lawyer. [note: Lincoln's Inn Admission Register, f.85.] In due course, he must have successfully completed his studies and probably, thanks to his uncle Robert, [note: Robert's will proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury, 1639 (P.C.C. Harvey 133) speaks of his 'friends of the Exchequer' and of his law books.] himself a practitioner in the Exchequer of Pleas (if not a sworn attorney), was practising in that court as early as the beginning of 1630. [note: P.R.O. E12/14.] The date of his appointment to one of the four attorneyships in the court is not certain but it must lie between 1630 and 1634, when his own statement in the recorded pedigree attests the fact. . . . "On July 16, 1627, . . . William married Alice, daughter of Richard Waltham of London, merchant. . . . "William's death occurred in November or early December 1647. . . . His wife Alice was named executor, to whom probate was granted on December 14. [note: This will, surprisingly enough never discovered before, was proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury and is registered amongst the records of the Court now in the Principal Probate Registry, Somerset House (P.C.C. Fines 244).] . . . "His will [leaves legacies] to his daughters, Elizabeth, Mary, Susan, and Sarah and to his sons Richard and Samuel. [note: This disproves the statement in _Burke's Landed Gentry_, 1939 edition, that he had five other sons besides Colonel William.] No mention is made in the will of a son, William, who might have been Colonel William of Millenbeck. "But a son and heir William there was. . . . The omission of specific legacy to the widow Alice would seem to support the probability that arrangements had been made before November 1647 for the future fortunes of widow and eldest son. An argument could be put forth that William had already gone to Virginia before his father's death, but this would antedate Hayden's date of 1650 (p. 51) or the date 1657 in the Ball letter book and Downman Bible. In any case, the younger William could have been no more than nineteen years old in 1649, since his parents were only married in 1627, and could certainly not have married a Hannah Atherold in 1638. Nor, as Hayden asserts, is he likely to have been born in 1615 when his father was a mere child of twelve years. "The first evidence of a William Ball, son of William Ball, attorney of the Exchequer of Pleas, who could have become Colonel William of Millenbeck is found in the 'Parish Booke for Wokingham'. . . . A deed of September 28, 1641, . . . names . . . William Ball of Wokingham, gentleman, and William Ball, son and heir of William Ball. [note: Berks R.O. Wo/RZ 1, f. 109] Unless the first of these two Williams is an entirely different person of another branch of this numerous family, then he must be equated with William of Lincoln's Inn and Fetter Lane and his son must be the person traditionally said to be the first Ball in Virginia. . . . Unless the father had married in London or Wokingham before 1627 (and there is no evidence that this did happen), this son could hardly have married at the age of ten a girl from Suffolk nor even in 1650 been described as of mature years. . . . "The man who is reputed to have founded the family in Virginia, in fact never left England or Berkshire. In the same 'Parish Booke' of Wokingham already quoted is entered the next deed in the series of appointments of trustees of the Almshouses. [note: Berks R.O. Wo/RZ, 1, f. 110] This is dated April 13, 1670, and in it the four surviving trustees appointed by the deed of 1641 appoint further new trustees. One of the survivors is William Ball 'of Bracknell, Esquire,' who can only be the younger William of 1641. . . . On June 10, 1687, at Trinity College, Oxford, Samuel Ball, son of William Ball of Bracknell, esquire, aged fifteen, matriculated but never appears to have taken a degree. [note: _Alumni Oxonensis_, ed. J. Foster (Oxford, 1891)]" Kathleen Much

David, You are absolutely right that I was wrong. The Walne article does indeed say Northamptonshire, not Lincolnshire. It is all very iffy. The "Coats of Arms" is a lingering mystery. Craig On Oct 31, 2012, at 10:48 PM, DAVID BROWN wrote: > Thanks Donna. I have the article and was trying to figure out why Craig alluded to Richard Ball of Lincolnshire. It looks like Craig made a mistake and meant to say Northamptonshire instead of Lincolnshire. Anyway, I find it humorous that Walne SPECULATES of a Northamptonshire connection based on an ALLEGED parchment (with Coat of Arms) which William Ball, died Nov. 1680, SUPPOSEDLY brought with him to the colonies. > > > From: Donna Price <dpsqrd@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] William Ball (died Nov. 1680) & Hannah Atherold > > David, > I found the article online. > Walne proposes that a more likely ancestor would be Dr. Richard Ball, of Northamptonshire. I include the entire article here with his footnotes. > http://www.afamilytree.net/milesforsite/dispute.html > From: Craig Kilby <persisto@live.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 4:50 PM >> Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] William Ball (died Nov. 1680) & Hannah Atherold >> >> If you will read the rest of the Walne article, he opens a wide door as to William Ball being the son of Richard Ball of Lincolnshire. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VA-NORTHERN-NECK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

David, the Peter Walne article was published in the Virginia Magazine of History & Biography in Vol. 67 No. 4 (October 1959), pages 399-405. The title is "The English Ancestry of Colonel William Ball of Millenbeck." The title is a misnomer, because it does not determine any ancestry for William-1 Ball, it simply disproves the Barkam Manor stuff. It is recommended reading. In fact, I am going to recommend that the Mary Ball Washington Museum & Library gets permission from the Virginia Historical Society to reprint it on on our website so that this business about William-1 Ball being born at Barkam can can have a permanent bullet to its head to be fired when needed. As to the possible Lincolnshire origins from Rev. Richard Ball...it is just a possibility and it has never, to my knowledge, been tested. Walne opens that door in his article, which I encourage you to read. The article does NOT come out and say this, nor does it provide any evidence--or even claim to having done any research--on this. It also explores SOME London records. Nothing is claimed to be conclusive except that William-1 Ball of Lancaster County WAS NOT born at Barkham Manor. Craig On Oct 31, 2012, at 6:41 PM, DAVID BROWN wrote: > Where is this mentioned in the Walne article? > > From: Craig Kilby <persisto@live.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 4:50 PM > Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] William Ball (died Nov. 1680) & Hannah Atherold > > > If you will read the rest of the Walne article, he opens a wide door as to William Ball being the son of Richard Ball of Lincolnshire. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VA-NORTHERN-NECK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks for the clarification.   ________________________________ From: Craig Kilby <persisto1@gmail.com> To: DAVID BROWN <dbrown544@prodigy.net>; va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:56 PM Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] William Ball (died Nov. 1680) & Hannah Atherold David, You are absolutely right that I was wrong. The Walne article does indeed say Northamptonshire, not Lincolnshire. It is all very iffy. The "Coats of Arms" is a lingering mystery. Craig

I've read the Walne article and there's nothing mentioned about Lincolnshire.   ________________________________ From: Craig Kilby <persisto1@gmail.com> To: DAVID BROWN <dbrown544@prodigy.net>; va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] William Ball (died Nov. 1680) & Hannah Atherold As to the possible Lincolnshire origins from Rev. Richard Ball...

Thanks Donna. I have the article and was trying to figure out why Craig alluded to Richard Ball of Lincolnshire.  It looks like Craig made a mistake and meant to say Northamptonshire instead of Lincolnshire.  Anyway, I find it humorous that Walne SPECULATES of a Northamptonshire connection based on an ALLEGED parchment (with Coat of Arms) which William Ball, died Nov. 1680, SUPPOSEDLY brought with him to the colonies.   From: Donna Price <dpsqrd@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] William Ball (died Nov. 1680) & Hannah Atherold David,  I found the article online. Walne proposes that a more likely ancestor would be Dr. Richard Ball, of Northamptonshire. I include the entire article here with his footnotes. http://www.afamilytree.net/milesforsite/dispute.html From: Craig Kilby <persisto@live.com> >Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 4:50 PM >Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] William Ball (died Nov. 1680) & Hannah Atherold > >If you will read the rest of the Walne article, he opens a wide door as to William Ball being the son of Richard Ball of Lincolnshire.