Mike Marshall was in the MBW library today and he thinks he has solved this problem. He had sent an earlier post which far exceeded the 10k b limit. Since it had already been bounced back to him, and after his discoveries today, I will look forward to his own research report. I am sure it will be very good, because Mike Marshall is a very good researcher. So, stay tuned all! I can only hint that yes, there really was an ELIZABETH SHIRLEY woman of Gloucester County who married a John Carter of Lancaster County, one of his many wives. Mike will explain it far better than I. Mike: Remember: JUST THE FACTS MA'AM, JUST THE FACTS. Craig P.S. I am not beyond making fun of myself. Mike made what I can only call an "aside" remark today about my "MISSOURI ATTITUDE." When pressed for an explanation of that meant, he said , "That whole "Show Me" Thing Attitude." I proudly plead guilty. On Apr 16, 2011, at 7:46 PM, Kathleen Much wrote: > I assume Mike is asking what the question marks in my post represent. The > one after Shirley is a quote from the book's author--I think he meant that > he didn't know Elizabeth -- Shirley Carter's maiden name. The others are the > computer's "translation" of the pound character that I typed. > > On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Mike wrote:

Hi, Drove down to the Mary Ball Library in Lancaster County Va today and Craig Kilby presented these two abstracts: 1: the Carter Tree compiled by Robert Randolph Carter of Shirley shows John Carter married twice... this explains the Elizabeth Grandmother of his daughter Elizabeth Hull. 2: Gloucester Records from other Virginia Counties pg 125 Pg 63: MARRIAGE CONTRACT - JOHN CARTER AND ELIZABETH SHERLEY - 1668 Marriage contract tripartite - between John Carter Jr., John Carter Esqr father of John Carter Jnr, both of the county of Lancaster, and Elizabeth Sherley Spinster of the county of Gloucester; foreasmuch as there is a marriage to be solomized between sd John Carter Esqr and Elizabeth Sherley, a joynture in lieu of dower in the lands of the sd John Carter Esqr for his life then to Elizabeth Sherley for her life for her joynture then to the heirs of the sd John Carter Esqr, second.  24th Oct 1668 John Carter Recd: Lancaster County Court 15th February 1668 Teste Edmd Dale Cl Curr

I assume Mike is asking what the question marks in my post represent. The one after Shirley is a quote from the book's author--I think he meant that he didn't know Elizabeth -- Shirley Carter's maiden name. The others are the computer's "translation" of the pound character that I typed. On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Mike wrote: > ? > > ________________________________ > From: Kathleen Much <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thu, April 14, 2011 2:59:27 PM > Subject: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Edwin Conway's 2nd wife, Part 2 > > Continuation of my reply to Mike Marshall's question. > Probably the most comprehensive treatment of John Carter's wives is in > Clifford Dowdey, _The Virginia Dynasties_: > "During the years of his rise and power at Corotoman, John Carter's > personal > life was made turbulent by deaths and remarriages. When he built his house > about one hundred yards back from the riverfront, his family consisted of > his wife, formerly Jane Glyn, his sons John II and George, and his daughter > Elizabeth. His wife soon died, and he married a widow, Eleanor Brocas, from > Lancastershire [sic; s/b Lancashire], England. She did not live long and > died without having borne any children. Then he married Ann Carter, the > daughter of Cleave (Cleve) Carter, thought to be an English cousin of her > husband. She also died soon, leaving no children. Then came the wife who > produced Robert: Sarah Ludlow was her name, and all known about her was > that > she was the daughter of Mr. Gabriel Ludlow: the 'Mr.' was carved on her > tomb, and that designation was not used loosely. She was also the mother of > Robert's sister Sarah. This fourth wife lasted a little longer than her > immediate predecessors. She died in early 1668, when Robert was five. > "Later in the year 1668 Colonel Carter took his fifth wife, Elizabeth > Shirley (?), a widow from Gloucester County. This last, late venture - for > he was near his own end then - seemed to be his first sour marriage. He > died > June 10, 1669, leaving his new wife about eight months pregnant. Carter's > will showed what he thought of the mother of his unborn child and of his > progeny by her. > "She was to have ?500 (which was part of the marriage contract), a Negro > boy, 'her' necklace of diamond and pearls and 'her own books,' and share > with Carter's sons John and Robert in the residual personal estate. To > these > bequests he pointedly added two books from the library (which otherwise > went > to John and Robert): Byfield's treatise _The Whole Duty of Man_ and > _David's > Tears_, an 'appropriate legacy for a mourning widow.' > "Assuming that her child would be a boy, 'whose name is intended Charles,' > and never referring to this future Carter exept as 'her son,' he provided > for this heir as meagerly as decency would permit. His executors were to > allow the widow ?12 a year for his education and '[my] son John is to allow > my wife's son necessary clothes.' . . . He provided for the contingency of > the widow putting 'her son out [to] apprentice.' . . . > "The widow's child was a boy whom she dutifully named Charles, after which > he disappeared from the records. He was presumably alive at twenty-one, for > John Carter II made provision for him in his will--one-third of the > personal > estate--though nothing indicated that he claimed his share." > > There is no mention of a Carter sister or sister-in-law who might have > married Edwin Conway. >

Don't know the county but this was the directions out of the book about the family Go east on Rt 202 out of Montross until you pass a VDOT shed—look for rusting wearied marker that commemorates the home of the celebrated Robert Carter. Make a right turn alongside that marker on to Beale’s Mill Road, another right at the first stop sign and go about a mile. Look for a plain wooden fence on the right upon which is mounted a small peeling sign that reads, Nomini Hall Circa 1850 On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Craig Kilby <[email protected]> wrote: > Marianne, > > I think you are a bit confused on this one. Nomini Hall was in Westmoreland > County, home of Robert "Councilor" Carter III, much later than this. This > John Carter was the great-grandfather of him, and he (John) did indeed die > in Lancaster County. His origins are a matter of continuing debate. Though > it has never been proved, you may read all over the place that he was the > brother of Col. Thomas Carter "of Barford." There is no proof of that that > I know of. > > Read the post by Robert Lumsden about a week ago. > > Craig > > On Apr 14, 2011, at 5:23 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > > Martha Eltonhead's sister Eleanor Eltonhead married Col. John Carter and > he died June 1669 in "Nomini Hall" Lancaster Co., Va. Eleanor married Capt. > William Borcus after Col. John Carter died. I don't now who Col. john > Carter's parents are. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Douglas Burnett Satellite Beach FL

  ________________________________ From: Kathleen Much <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, April 14, 2011 2:59:27 PM Subject: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Edwin Conway's 2nd wife, Part 2 Continuation of my reply to Mike Marshall's question. Probably the most comprehensive treatment of John Carter's wives is in Clifford Dowdey, _The Virginia Dynasties_: "During the years of his rise and power at Corotoman, John Carter's personal life was made turbulent by deaths and remarriages. When he built his house about one hundred yards back from the riverfront, his family consisted of his wife, formerly Jane Glyn, his sons John II and George, and his daughter Elizabeth. His wife soon died, and he married a widow, Eleanor Brocas, from Lancastershire [sic; s/b Lancashire], England. She did not live long and died without having borne any children. Then he married Ann Carter, the daughter of Cleave (Cleve) Carter, thought to be an English cousin of her husband. She also died soon, leaving no children. Then came the wife who produced Robert: Sarah Ludlow was her name, and all known about her was that she was the daughter of Mr. Gabriel Ludlow: the 'Mr.' was carved on her tomb, and that designation was not used loosely. She was also the mother of Robert's sister Sarah. This fourth wife lasted a little longer than her immediate predecessors. She died in early 1668, when Robert was five. "Later in the year 1668 Colonel Carter took his fifth wife, Elizabeth Shirley (?), a widow from Gloucester County. This last, late venture - for he was near his own end then - seemed to be his first sour marriage. He died June 10, 1669, leaving his new wife about eight months pregnant. Carter's will showed what he thought of the mother of his unborn child and of his progeny by her. "She was to have £500 (which was part of the marriage contract), a Negro boy, 'her' necklace of diamond and pearls and 'her own books,' and share with Carter's sons John and Robert in the residual personal estate. To these bequests he pointedly added two books from the library (which otherwise went to John and Robert): Byfield's treatise _The Whole Duty of Man_ and _David's Tears_, an 'appropriate legacy for a mourning widow.' "Assuming that her child would be a boy, 'whose name is intended Charles,' and never referring to this future Carter exept as 'her son,' he provided for this heir as meagerly as decency would permit. His executors were to allow the widow £12 a year for his education and '[my] son John is to allow my wife's son necessary clothes.' . . . He provided for the contingency of the widow putting 'her son out [to] apprentice.' . . . "The widow's child was a boy whom she dutifully named Charles, after which he disappeared from the records. He was presumably alive at twenty-one, for John Carter II made provision for him in his will--one-third of the personal estate--though nothing indicated that he claimed his share." There is no mention of a Carter sister or sister-in-law who might have married Edwin Conway. Mike, please let us know if you identify the elusive Mary -- Conway. Kathleen Much ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Craig. I don't know that much about Col. John Carter except he was married to Agatha Eltonhead a sister to my Martha Eltonhead. And Col. John Carter did leave that heifer to Eltonhead Conway who is my grandmother who married Henry Thacker, Sr. I am not sure where I got that info on Col. John Carter. I missed a lot of the postings on the Carter's because my hard drive went out on me and I just got back online late last night. I was offline for 10 days. I did want to clear up that death date on Edwin Conway, Sr. Its a good thing the Lancaster County courthouse had that record. That changes some things concerning his son Edwin. I think some get the two mixed up. Marianne Dillow ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Kilby" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 6:13:14 AM Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Edwin Conway's 2nd wife Marianne, I think you are a bit confused on this one. Nomini Hall was in Westmoreland County, home of Robert "Councilor" Carter III, much later than this. This John Carter was the great-grandfather of him, and he (John) did indeed die in Lancaster County. His origins are a matter of continuing debate. Though it has never been proved, you may read all over the place that he was the brother of Col. Thomas Carter "of Barford." There is no proof of that that I know of. Read the post by Robert Lumsden about a week ago. Craig On Apr 14, 2011, at 5:23 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Martha Eltonhead's sister Eleanor Eltonhead married Col. John Carter and he died June 1669 in "Nomini Hall" Lancaster Co., Va. Eleanor married Capt. William Borcus after Col. John Carter died. I don't now who Col. john Carter's parents are.

Continuation of my reply to Mike Marshall's question. Probably the most comprehensive treatment of John Carter's wives is in Clifford Dowdey, _The Virginia Dynasties_: "During the years of his rise and power at Corotoman, John Carter's personal life was made turbulent by deaths and remarriages. When he built his house about one hundred yards back from the riverfront, his family consisted of his wife, formerly Jane Glyn, his sons John II and George, and his daughter Elizabeth. His wife soon died, and he married a widow, Eleanor Brocas, from Lancastershire [sic; s/b Lancashire], England. She did not live long and died without having borne any children. Then he married Ann Carter, the daughter of Cleave (Cleve) Carter, thought to be an English cousin of her husband. She also died soon, leaving no children. Then came the wife who produced Robert: Sarah Ludlow was her name, and all known about her was that she was the daughter of Mr. Gabriel Ludlow: the 'Mr.' was carved on her tomb, and that designation was not used loosely. She was also the mother of Robert's sister Sarah. This fourth wife lasted a little longer than her immediate predecessors. She died in early 1668, when Robert was five. "Later in the year 1668 Colonel Carter took his fifth wife, Elizabeth Shirley (?), a widow from Gloucester County. This last, late venture - for he was near his own end then - seemed to be his first sour marriage. He died June 10, 1669, leaving his new wife about eight months pregnant. Carter's will showed what he thought of the mother of his unborn child and of his progeny by her. "She was to have £500 (which was part of the marriage contract), a Negro boy, 'her' necklace of diamond and pearls and 'her own books,' and share with Carter's sons John and Robert in the residual personal estate. To these bequests he pointedly added two books from the library (which otherwise went to John and Robert): Byfield's treatise _The Whole Duty of Man_ and _David's Tears_, an 'appropriate legacy for a mourning widow.' "Assuming that her child would be a boy, 'whose name is intended Charles,' and never referring to this future Carter exept as 'her son,' he provided for this heir as meagerly as decency would permit. His executors were to allow the widow £12 a year for his education and '[my] son John is to allow my wife's son necessary clothes.' . . . He provided for the contingency of the widow putting 'her son out [to] apprentice.' . . . "The widow's child was a boy whom she dutifully named Charles, after which he disappeared from the records. He was presumably alive at twenty-one, for John Carter II made provision for him in his will--one-third of the personal estate--though nothing indicated that he claimed his share." There is no mention of a Carter sister or sister-in-law who might have married Edwin Conway. Mike, please let us know if you identify the elusive Mary -- Conway. Kathleen Much

My reply to Mike Marshall keeps bouncing, evidently because it exceeds the list maximum. I have trimmed all of his previous message except this: Edwin's first wife was Martha Eltonhead, and all I've read is that his 2nd wife was a sister or sister-in-law of John Carter of Corotoman. I will split my reply into two messages so that it may make it through the filter. First: Crozier's assumption that Mary Conway, widow, was a sister of John Carter doesn't bear close examination, as the "niece" relationship is satisfied by the Eltonhead sisters. John Carter married Eleanor ELTONHEAD Brocas, sister of Martha ELTONHEAD Conway. "[William] Brocas, [Ralph] Wormeley, and [Rowland] Burnham were all brothers-in-law (married to Eleanor, Agatha, and Alice Eltonhead respectively)." Darrett B. and Anita H. Rutman, _A Place in Time: Middlesex County, Virginia, 1650-1750_, pp. 48-49. P. 54: "Brocas's Eltonhead wife, Eleanor, did not leave the vicinity at his death; marrying John Carter, she simply moved across the Rappahannock to the north shore." Bishop Meade originally thought that John Carter's second wife was Anne Carter: "The first John Carter had three wives--1st, Jane, the daughter of Morgan Glyn, by whom he had George and Eleanor; 2d, Ann, the daughter of Cleave Carter, probably of England; 3d, Sarah, the daughter of Gabriel Ludlowe, by whom he had Sarah. All these died before him, and he was buried with them, near the chancel, in the church which he built, and the tombstone from which we take the above covers them all, being still in the same position in the present church. He had also a son named Charles, of whom nothing is known. His son Robert was by his last wife, Sarah Ludlowe." _Old Churches, Ministers, and Families of Virginia_, vol. I, p. 110. Later, Meade named four wives for Carter: Vol. II, p. 121: "This inscription is to the north of the chancel, in the east end of the [Old Christ Church]: 'Here lyeth bureied ye body of John Carter, Esq., who died ye 10th of June, Anno Domini 1669; and also Jane, ye daughter of Mr. Morgan Glyn, and George her son, and Elenor Carter, and Ann, ye daughter of Mr. Cleave Carter, and Sarah, ye daughter of Mr. Gabriel Ludlow, and Sarah her daughter, which were all his wives successively, and died before him.'" Meade evidently didn't know about Carter's last marriage, to Elizabeth -- Shirley, who survived him. Hayden didn't know of any Carter sister, but says Edwin Conway *may* have married twice: "This second marriage, if it occurred, may have been to a sister of Anne Glynne, Carter's first wife."

Maybe I can help some on the posting below. Edwin Conway, Sr and Martha Eltonhead are my 9th great grandparents. I descend from their daughter Eltonhead Conway that married Henry Thacker, Sr. I do not know of Edwin Conway, Sr having a second wife. Also, Edwin Conway's death date has been in error in Hayden' Glassell book. According to this source Edwin Conway, Sr died earlier than what most people think. Source: Va. Col. Abstracts, Lancaster Co., Va. p. 11.. Lancaster Court Session 14 March 1660/61. Minute Book, p. 141, Com. of Administration on the Est. of MR. EDWIN CONNOWAY, DEC'D to HENRY CORBYN. There was a land record much later in 1675 but Edwin Conway, Sr was already dead and many people think he died then which is an error according to Lancaster County Court records listed above. Martha Eltonhead's sister Eleanor Eltonhead married Col. John Carter and he died June 1669 in "Nomini Hall" Lancaster Co., Va. Eleanor married Capt. William Borcus after Col. John Carter died. I don't now who Col. john Carter's parents are. I also gave Mike Marshall the record on Eltonhead Conway , my next grandmother, the record of Col. John Carter giving Eltonhead Conway the heifer listed below. Marianne Dillow Illinois ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike marshall" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: "Linda Reno" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2011 5:54:52 PM Subject: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Edwin Conway's 2nd wife Edwin's first wife was Martha Eltonhead, and all I've read is that his 2nd wife was a sister or sister-in-law of John Carter of Corotoman. The following record shows her name was Mary but the second record indicates John Carter had a niece via first wife Eleanor Eltonhead's sister Martha (w/o Edwin Conway) Has a maiden name been found for this Mary? === 1674-1678 Lancaster County Order Book: pg 366 Lancaster County Court 9th of May 1677 - Mrs. MARY CONWAY, Widdowe, beings arrested to this Cort: att the suite of HENERY WILLOUGHBY and not appeareing to answers the saide suite, and the Sheriffe not takeing security accordinge to Acts, order accordinge to Acts is granted against the saide Sheriffs, upon whose request, Attachmt. accordinge to Acts is granted against the saide CONWAY === 1654-1661 Lancaster County Deed-Wills pg 151 THESE P:SENTS Witnesseth that I Colo. JOHN CARTER of Rapa. River in the County of Lancaster in Virginia Esqr. for ye Love that I bear towards my Neice, ELTONHEADE, the Daughterof EDWYN CONNAWAY, have  given granted &., assigned have given order to be delivered & do by these p:sents give grant assigne & deliver unto EDWYN CONNAWAY for ye use of ye sd ELTONHEADE the oldest heifer that 1 now have in ye possession & at ye Plantation of WILLM. LUCAS on ye South side of Rapa, River coloured red & a flower deluce on both ears To have & to hold ye sd heifer with all her increase both male & female unto her ye sd ELTONHED CONNOWAY her heirs Exrs. Admrs. & assignes without ye lawfull let or disturbance of anyp:son or p:sons whatsoever In Witnes whereof I have hereunto set my hand ye 9th day of April Ao: 1656 Signed & delivered in presence of JASPER BAKER, JOHN CARTER FOSLIN DELANALL === Virginia Heraldica, edited by Wm. Armstrong Crozier (Baltimore, 1978, originally published 1908), pp. 68-69: "Conway. Northampton and Lancaster counties. . . . "Edwin Conway of the county of Worcester, England, came to Virginia in 1640, and in 1642 was clerk of Northampton county. He was born about 1610, and died in Lancaster county in 1675. He married, 1st, in England, Martha, daughter of Richard Eltonhead, Esq., of Lancashire. He moved from Northampton to Lancaster county about 1652; his second wife being either a sister or sister-in-law of John Carter of Corotoman. His known issue,gathered from deeds in Lancaster Court House: 1) Edwin, born about 1640-4, died 1698, married, 1st, Sarah Fleete; married, 2nd, in 1695, Elizabeth Thompson; 2) Eltonhead (daughter), born about 1646, married about 1662 Henry Thacker."

Marianne, I think you are a bit confused on this one. Nomini Hall was in Westmoreland County, home of Robert "Councilor" Carter III, much later than this. This John Carter was the great-grandfather of him, and he (John) did indeed die in Lancaster County. His origins are a matter of continuing debate. Though it has never been proved, you may read all over the place that he was the brother of Col. Thomas Carter "of Barford." There is no proof of that that I know of. Read the post by Robert Lumsden about a week ago. Craig On Apr 14, 2011, at 5:23 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Martha Eltonhead's sister Eleanor Eltonhead married Col. John Carter and he died June 1669 in "Nomini Hall" Lancaster Co., Va. Eleanor married Capt. William Borcus after Col. John Carter died. I don't now who Col. john Carter's parents are.

The article focused on the Anne vs Anna dispute so what I posted was merely a snipit of the complete article and all the theories/logic/sources and references regarding that issue. The article was NOT about Allerton Newton nor Sarah Lee. These were merely cogs in the wheel to solve the mystery about the two Anne(a)'s. Like I said....... I wrote to the author to inquire about these very specific references and the full context of them. Still waiting. Janean -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kathleen Much Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 2:06 PM To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] VA-NORTHERN-NECK Digest, Vol 3, Issue 28 Thanks for posting, Janean. I don't know of anyone these days who doubts Hancock Lee's two daughters Anne and Anna. That battle was won a while back. But I decry the bland assumption that Sarah Allerton married a Newton without ANY documentation beyond Barbara Merrick's previously well-rebutted article. I'd like to know why Dorman evidently no longer believes that Mary -- Newton (John's widow and probably Allerton's mother; Stafford Co will 1700) died AFTER Sarah Allerton had married Hancock Lee. There was no other Newton in the vicinity whom Sarah could have survived as a widow. A disappointment. I had hoped that the NEHGS article would reject or bolster Merrick's claims, not just adopt them wholesale and uncritically. On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 Janean wrote: > > I am reading the 10 page article from the Winter 2010 of Mayflower > Descendants Vol. 59, No. 1. > > The article is written by James Reid Hancock .... > > The entire article addresses the debate over whether Hancock Lee had TWO > daughters Anna/Anne one each by both wives.... on page 11 > of the book it states: > > "Though the case for the two daughters Anna and Anne has been proven, a > secondary next question to further support the case is when was Anne (Lee) > Eustace born? Her mother Sarah (Allerton)(Newton) Lee died on 17 May 1731 > at age 60, so Sarah was born circa 1671. Sarah had a son Allerton Newton > by > her first husband circa 1691. [44} > > [44] Brewster Fam., 107. > > Barbara Lambert Merrick, Mayflower Families in Progress, William Brewster > of > the Mayflower and his Descendants for Four Generations (Plymouth, Mass., > rev. 3rd ed 2000) [hereafter Brewster Fam.] 107. > > Further it says "Sarah married first ______ NEWTON" [57] > > [57] Dorman, 3: 654. > > John Frederick Dorman, ed., Adventurers of Purse and Person 1607-1624/5 > (Baltimore, 4th ed, 2004) [hereafter Dorman] which supersedes (1987) > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks for posting, Janean. I don't know of anyone these days who doubts Hancock Lee's two daughters Anne and Anna. That battle was won a while back. But I decry the bland assumption that Sarah Allerton married a Newton without ANY documentation beyond Barbara Merrick's previously well-rebutted article. I'd like to know why Dorman evidently no longer believes that Mary -- Newton (John's widow and probably Allerton's mother; Stafford Co will 1700) died AFTER Sarah Allerton had married Hancock Lee. There was no other Newton in the vicinity whom Sarah could have survived as a widow. A disappointment. I had hoped that the NEHGS article would reject or bolster Merrick's claims, not just adopt them wholesale and uncritically. On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 Janean wrote: > > I am reading the 10 page article from the Winter 2010 of Mayflower > Descendants Vol. 59, No. 1. > > The article is written by James Reid Hancock .... > > The entire article addresses the debate over whether Hancock Lee had TWO > daughters Anna/Anne one each by both wives.... on page 11 > of the book it states: > > "Though the case for the two daughters Anna and Anne has been proven, a > secondary next question to further support the case is when was Anne (Lee) > Eustace born? Her mother Sarah (Allerton)(Newton) Lee died on 17 May 1731 > at age 60, so Sarah was born circa 1671. Sarah had a son Allerton Newton > by > her first husband circa 1691. [44} > > [44] Brewster Fam., 107. > > Barbara Lambert Merrick, Mayflower Families in Progress, William Brewster > of > the Mayflower and his Descendants for Four Generations (Plymouth, Mass., > rev. 3rd ed 2000) [hereafter Brewster Fam.] 107. > > Further it says "Sarah married first ______ NEWTON" [57] > > [57] Dorman, 3: 654. > > John Frederick Dorman, ed., Adventurers of Purse and Person 1607-1624/5 > (Baltimore, 4th ed, 2004) [hereafter Dorman] which supersedes (1987) > > >

I am reading the 10 page article from the Winter 2010 of Mayflower Descendants Vol. 59, No. 1. The article is written by James Reid Hancock B.S. of Louisville, Ky who is the current First Deputy Governor and Historian of the Society of Mayflower Descendants in the Commonwealth of Kentucky and Registrar General of the Order of First Families of Main, and has been a professional land title examiner and underwriter for over thirty years. He has many years of experience in Virginia and New England genealogical research. He thanks in this effort John Frederick Dorman, CG, for his assistance. Also, William P. Carrell II, current Governor of the Society of Mayflower Descendants in the Commonwealth of Kentucky, for his efforts to make this article possible. The entire article addresses the debate over whether Hancock Lee had TWO daughters Anna/Anne one each by both wives. In this article.... on page 11 of the book it states: "Though the case for the two daughters Anna and Anne has been proven, a secondary next question to further support the case is when was Anne (Lee) Eustace born? Her mother Sarah (Allerton)(Newton) Lee died on 17 May 1731 at age 60, so Sarah was born circa 1671. Sarah had a son Allerton Newton by her first husband circa 1691. [44} [44] Brewster Fam., 107. Barbara Lambert Merrick, Mayflower Families in Progress, William Brewster of the Mayflower and his Descendants for Four Generations (Plymouth, Mass., rev. 3rd ed 2000) [hereafter Brewster Fam.] 107. Further it says "Sarah married first ______ NEWTON" [57] [57] Dorman, 3: 654. John Frederick Dorman, ed., Adventurers of Purse and Person 1607-1624/5 (Baltimore, 4th ed, 2004) [hereafter Dorman] which supersedes (1987) The General Society of Mayflower Descendants engaged the services of John Frederick Dorman, the pre-eminent Virginia genealogist, to further research this issue in an effort to address these concerns for the benefit of the Society's Five Generations Project. Mr. Dorman concluded in 2008 that Anne (Lee) Eustace was the daughter of Sarah (Allerton) Newton Lee.(11) John Frederick Dorman report "Brewster-Allerton-Lee: Analysis of Records Concerning Anne (Lee) Eustace and Elizabeth (Lee) Jones Taylor: dated 28 Feb. 2008 that was prepared for GSMD;s Five Generations Project. A copy of this full report is in the Mass. Society of Mayflower Descendants library along with the author's report of this subject. I know someone will say "ok this is all well and good but it STILL doesn't say exactly WHAT the proof is, what document are they using for this information" I have written to the author of the article. I'm hoping someone can clear this up. Don't shoot the messenger! Janean

OK I found the information It comes from Mayflower Descendant Massachusetts Society of Mayflower Descendants Winter 2010 Volume 59, No. 1 Contents Anne (Lee) Eustace, Daughter of Hancock Lee of Northumberland Co., Va. and his Second Wife Sarah (Allerton) Newton James R. Hancock I have not read this as of yet. I would have to order the paper back or have the Society copy the article for me and mail it to me. Which I will probably do. I may check first with my local library to see if they have a copy of the issue. I do not know what it contains. Janean -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Linda S. Hughes Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 8:27 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Allerton/Newton I'm a member of NEHGS. I checked the table of contents for the Register from 2007 until the latest issue in January 2011. Alas, no such article. Linda Hughes On Apr 4, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Kathleen Much wrote: > A long time ago now, we had a polite controversy on this list about the > children of Isaac Allerton and Elizabeth Willoughby (widow of Simon Overzee > and George Colclough)........Supposedly an article spelling out the details of the NEHGS's conclusion > were to be published last year. I have not yet heard of any such publication > (I'm not a member). If any of our listmates is a member, could you please > let me know where to look for such an article if one was indeed published? > > Kathleen Much > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Craig can you please send the link back to me if you still have it. I can't find anything that I received on it. I thought I got it here at home but I'm not finding it. The link WAS only for the table of contents. They said I could either check my library for a copy or they'd copy the article for me in lieu of me purchasing the book. I thought maybe you may have access to it at your library. I will have to look again tomorrow at work but I swore it was from my home computer. Hmmm Janean -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Craig Kilby Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 6:54 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Allerton/Newton Janean, The link you sent to 2011 issue (Winter, or was that Winter 2012?) was only for a table of contents, which did not include any article by title relating to these families. We'd all like to know if the Winter Issue had such an article, and what the title of it was. I realize the title may not include the words "Allerton" or "Newby" or any of the other names in question. On Apr 7, 2011, at 5:00 PM, Janean Ray wrote: > The article has been found and the link to sent to me. I do not know the > contents of it....... I will either have to go to my library and copy it or > have the Society copy it and send it to me. Unless you can provide a copy. > > I'll have to send it when I get home. I don't have the email here at work. > Janean ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Janean, The link you sent to 2011 issue (Winter, or was that Winter 2012?) was only for a table of contents, which did not include any article by title relating to these families. We'd all like to know if the Winter Issue had such an article, and what the title of it was. I realize the title may not include the words "Allerton" or "Newby" or any of the other names in question. On Apr 7, 2011, at 5:00 PM, Janean Ray wrote: > The article has been found and the link to sent to me. I do not know the > contents of it....... I will either have to go to my library and copy it or > have the Society copy it and send it to me. Unless you can provide a copy. > > I'll have to send it when I get home. I don't have the email here at work. > Janean

Edwin's first wife was Martha Eltonhead, and all I've read is that his 2nd wife was a sister or sister-in-law of John Carter of Corotoman. The following record shows her name was Mary but the second record indicates John Carter had a niece via first wife Eleanor Eltonhead's sister Martha (w/o Edwin Conway) Has a maiden name been found for this Mary? === 1674-1678 Lancaster County Order Book: pg 366 Lancaster County Court 9th of May 1677 - Mrs. MARY CONWAY, Widdowe, beings arrested to this Cort: att the suite of HENERY WILLOUGHBY and not appeareing to answers the saide suite, and the Sheriffe not takeing security accordinge to Acts, order accordinge to Acts is granted against the saide Sheriffs, upon whose request, Attachmt. accordinge to Acts is granted against the saide CONWAY === 1654-1661 Lancaster County Deed-Wills pg 151 THESE P:SENTS Witnesseth that I Colo. JOHN CARTER of Rapa. River in the County of Lancaster in Virginia Esqr. for ye Love that I bear towards my Neice, ELTONHEADE, the Daughterof EDWYN CONNAWAY, have  given granted &., assigned have given order to be delivered & do by these p:sents give grant assigne & deliver unto EDWYN CONNAWAY for ye use of ye sd ELTONHEADE the oldest heifer that 1 now have in ye possession & at ye Plantation of WILLM. LUCAS on ye South side of Rapa, River coloured red & a flower deluce on both ears To have & to hold ye sd heifer with all her increase both male & female unto her ye sd ELTONHED CONNOWAY her heirs Exrs. Admrs. & assignes without ye lawfull let or disturbance of anyp:son or p:sons whatsoever In Witnes whereof I have hereunto set my hand ye 9th day of April Ao: 1656 Signed & delivered in presence of JASPER BAKER, JOHN CARTER FOSLIN DELANALL === Virginia Heraldica, edited by Wm. Armstrong Crozier (Baltimore, 1978, originally published 1908), pp. 68-69: "Conway. Northampton and Lancaster counties. . . . "Edwin Conway of the county of Worcester, England, came to Virginia in 1640, and in 1642 was clerk of Northampton county. He was born about 1610, and died in Lancaster county in 1675. He married, 1st, in England, Martha, daughter of Richard Eltonhead, Esq., of Lancashire. He moved from Northampton to Lancaster county about 1652; his second wife being either a sister or sister-in-law of John Carter of Corotoman. His known issue,gathered from deeds in Lancaster Court House: 1) Edwin, born about 1640-4, died 1698, married, 1st, Sarah Fleete; married, 2nd, in 1695, Elizabeth Thompson; 2) Eltonhead (daughter), born about 1646, married about 1662 Henry Thacker." ________________________________ From: mike marshall <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, April 2, 2011 12:13:38 PM Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Fwd: William Carter - Lancaster Co. Va this Dr. John Edwards http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=mrmarsha&id=I72546 ________________________________ From: Janean Ray <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: Mike Marshall <[email protected]> Sent: Sat, April 2, 2011 11:43:20 AM Subject: RE: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Fwd: William Carter - Lancaster Co. Va Well you can't throw a rock back then without hitting relations.  The Merryman/Payne connection comes to mind.... William Underwood is a good clue.  However as far as John Edwards...... I know it's a common name but I do have one but don't know where he is from exactly but maybe the spousal names could help. John Edwards s/o Wm. Edwards and Unk Harrison Wife Jane Arrington Daughter Elizabeth Edwards m. 1737 to William Valentine King of Stafford/Halifax Co's. The Peytons of Virginia II (2004 William Valentine King was b. 1711 StaffordCo, VA.  He m. Elizabeth Edwards 21 May 1738.  He d. 1778, HalifaxCo, VA. Coinsidentally....... Susan Carter's association to Richard Merryman and the Merryman/Merriman's Payne association. Long shots and many families involved here but just thought I'd throw out the Edwards possible associations.  Searching collateral lines always helps complete the circle. Janean -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Craig Kilby Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 6:02 PM To: Northern Neck Northern Neck List Cc: Mike Marshall Subject: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Fwd: William Carter - Lancaster Co. Va With the permission of Mike Marshall, I'm forwarding this one along to our group. I don't know the answer to his question. I know of Thomas Carter and John Carter, but not this early William Carter. Can anyone help with this? Craig Begin forwarded message: > From: mike marshall > Date: March 31, 2011 10:11:25 PM EDT > To: Craig Kilby <[email protected]> > Subject: William Carter - Lancaster Co. Va > > Hi Craig >  > Is this William the brother of Thomas Carter who married Catherine Dale? I'm not finding him listed in the Carter books and usual places >  > === > 1652-1657 Lancaster County Order Book pg 290 > Lancaster County Court 3d of September 1656 > - Certificate of Land is granted unto Mr. WM. UNDERWOOD for the transportacon of PETER LEONARD, MARY HAWKES, WILLM. CARTER & PAULL WOOD accordinge to Act > === > 1656-1661 Lancaster County Order Book pg 166 > Lancaster County Court 13th of November 1661 > - Upon a peticon to this Cort: by SAM: GRIFFIN, the assignee of Capt. RICH: HOBBS agt. the Estate of WILL: CARTER (late deced.) It is ordered (that in respect to the Widd: & Relict of the sd. WILL: CARTER, to whom the administracon thereof doth p:perlie belonge hath not yet administered & as this Cort: was this day informed bath imbezelled the saide Estate, noe p:son whatsoever intrusted wth: any pte: of the sd. Estate upon any pr:tence whatsoever until this Cort: doe further determine therein, (but at their owne wills) > === > 1656-1661 Lancaster County Order Book pg 169 > Lancaster County Court 12th of March 1661/62 > - Administracon accordinge to Acte is granted unto WILLIAM NESSHAM upon the Estate of WILL: CARTER, deced., hee puttinge in securitie accordinge to Acte. HENRY ( ) & JO: SHARPE to apprize the Estate on Saturday next and is likewise granted to the sd: WILL: NEESHAM for 3200 lb. of tobaccoe & ca: in the first place out of the sd. Estate > === > 1662-1666 Lancaster County Order Book pg 299 > Lancaster County Court 14th of ( ) 1664 > - Whereas SUSAN CARTER, Daughter of WILL: CARTER, deced., was by order of this Cort., putt unto JOHN EDWARDS till she should attaine her age of one & twentie yeres. & by the sde. EDWARDS assigned unto THO: MARSHALL, & by the sde. MARSHALL assigned unto RICHD. MERRYMAN, It is ordered by this Cort., that the sde. SUSAN doe continue with: the sde. RICHD; MERRYMAN till she attaine to the age of 21 yeres, accordinge to the tenor of the order granted to EDWARDS > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The article has been found and the link to sent to me. I do not know the contents of it....... I will either have to go to my library and copy it or have the Society copy it and send it to me. Unless you can provide a copy. I'll have to send it when I get home. I don't have the email here at work. Janean -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Linda S. Hughes Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 8:27 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Allerton/Newton I'm a member of NEHGS. I checked the table of contents for the Register from 2007 until the latest issue in January 2011. Alas, no such article. Linda Hughes On Apr 4, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Kathleen Much wrote: > A long time ago now, we had a polite controversy on this list about the > children of Isaac Allerton and Elizabeth Willoughby (widow of Simon Overzee > and George Colclough)........Supposedly an article spelling out the details of the NEHGS's conclusion > were to be published last year. I have not yet heard of any such publication > (I'm not a member). If any of our listmates is a member, could you please > let me know where to look for such an article if one was indeed published? > > Kathleen Much > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I can't find my contact person from the last email regarding this subject - I checked the archives the best I could but there was just too much so I'm requesting again, but from scratch. Hopefully there will something new. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Craig Kilby Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 9:02 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Allerton/Newton Well, Janean, you DID promise. On Apr 4, 2011, at 8:46 PM, Janean Ray wrote: > Since interest has risen again on this subject I will see what I can find > out. > > Janean > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Well, Janean, you DID promise. On Apr 4, 2011, at 8:46 PM, Janean Ray wrote: > Since interest has risen again on this subject I will see what I can find > out. > > Janean >