But the Balls and Gordons were also in the good-ole-boy club. The Balls were at least of average morality--though inventory of Joseph Ball, Sr. did includ hundreds of empty bottles--no doubt to be filled with brandy made from his sizeable peach orchard. Col. James Gordon was a highly religious man--but since he was Presbyterian he probably didn't have the same social cache. Some of his remarks about the Anglican services he DID attend are actually quite amusing. Craig On Sep 12, 2011, at 2:59 PM, Janean Ray wrote: > Yes, they got away with a lot..... They always seemed to have someone > "testifying" on their behalf...... It was very much the "good old boy" land > back then and the Chinns were among the "good old boys".

Yes Craig it was. Journal of Col. James Gordon James Gordon William and Mary College Quarterly Historical Magazine, Vol. 11, No. 4. (Apr., 1903), pp. 217-236. VOL.XI. APRIL, 1903. No. 4. JOURNAL OF COL. JAMES GORDON. (Cotvtimued from page 205.) 1761. NEW YEAR'SDAY. JAN. 26. Mrs. Chin departed this life last Friday night. I heard to-day that Col. Conway has given notice to have a jury on her before she is buried, for it is reported her husband was the occa- sion of her death by beating & abusing her. 0Lord, how are the hearts of men corrupted when devoid of thy grace ! 0, preserve us from the many & great evils that surround us, & make reli- gion & virtue flourish & increase among us. 1762 September 8. Mr. SVaddel advised 1Ir. Mitchell f~om going to the races at Mr. Chin's, 6. discouraged Col. Selden from going. 0, what reason we have to be thankful that we have a minister who will watch over his flock that they may not go astray. If I followed along correct...... It was right below where their daughter Sally was buried. Yes, they got away with a lot..... They always seemed to have someone "testifying" on their behalf...... It was very much the "good old boy" land back then and the Chinns were among the "good old boys". If I run across anything else I'll let you know. Janean -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Craig Kilby Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 12:55 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] The Murder of Ann (Conway) Edmunds CHINN Janean, Was this also from the Journal of Col. James Gordon? If so, what year? Yes the Chinn men seem to have literally gotten away with murder. I'm surprised somebody didn't "off" one of them. On Sep 12, 2011, at 12:36 AM, Janean Ray wrote: > Craig, I searched briefly my records for any information and couldn't > find anything except this: > > September 8. "Mr. Waddel advised Mr. Mitchell from going to the races at Mr. > Chin's, & discouraged Col. Selden from going. O, what reason we have > to be thankful that we have a minister who will watch over his flock > that they may not go astray." > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Kathleen, As I wrote earlier, I am in the process of vetting at least the first three generations of the Ball Family. Believe me, if it comes down to trusting Peggy Hill's book or Horace Hayden's book, Peggy's book wins hands down. That is not to say that Hayden was not a source for some of her research. His is only place where specific dates are given (with no source, usually.) And this is not to say Peggy's book is without errors or, some very vague lines. Perhaps it is just coincidence that it was just about the time he wrote his book 1885 that Richmond County Will Book went missing. So, all we left is his word for things attributed to that source. Aggravating, but such is life. On a side note, a gentleman from New Jersey is much interested in all things Ball. He has relatives in England and will be going there next July and is donating one day of time at PRO in Kew [though we may send him to Northamtonshire instead]. We (MBW) are diligently working with him to collect anything and everything we know of written about Balls in England. It is a mass of material but Peter Walne's 1959 article remains the best source for clues, along with the first part of Heck's booklet written in the 1920s. Nancy McBride's book, *Gordon Kinship* has a lengthy section on records in England that she identified but did not examine. If you have any suggestions for this project, please send them to me at [email protected] Many thanks, Craig Kilby On Sep 12, 2011, at 2:09 PM, Kathleen Much wrote: > > > Margaret Lester Hill, _Ball Families of Virginia's Northern Neck, An > Outline_ (Mary Ball Washington Museum, 1990), p. 39: "Thomas Ball (George, > George, William, Wm.), d. May 1814-Feb 1816 [Northumberland Co., VA, _Record > Book 20_: 353-355]. Mbnd 3 Apr 1766, Richmond Co., VA, Mildred Downman (b. > 1749), daughter of Elizabeth Porteus and Capt. Robert Downman." > > If Hill is right, Thomas was the son of Capt George Ball d 1770 and Anna > Taylor d 1782. That makes him the grandson of Grace Haynie. Calling him > "junior" doesn't mean he's the son of another Thomas, just that there was an > elder Thomas somewhere in the neighborhood. The Balls were prolific, so > that's not out of the question. > > Horace Edwin Hayden, _Virginia Genealogies_ (Wilkes-Barre, PA, 1891), p. 67: > "55. iii. Capt. George, d. 1770; will dat. June 29, 1770; pro. North'd Co. > Oct 8, 1770 (Bk 8, 73). Names father, Capt. George Ball, and mother, Grace > Ball, brothers Joseph, Richard, and David, wife Ann, sister Grace Downman, > grandson David Ball Jr., and children as given. 'George Ball Jr., m. June > 14, 1736, Ann Taylor, Lanc'r Co., dau. of Elizabeth, with the mother's > consent. Witnessed by Merriatt Taylor (L). Mr. B. was Justice and mem. > North'd Co. Court 1753, and Sheriff July 1757, with David Ball as his > Deputy. Vestryman of Wicomico Par. 1770. > "Children (will): 1. David. ii. Thomas. iii. Sarah. iv. Martha. v. Mary > Taylor." >

David, I believe the name is TRAVERS, not TRAVERSE, though it may sometimes be transcribed that way. Craig On Sep 11, 2011, at 9:15 PM, DAVID BROWN wrote: > Thanks Kathleen for the information on the Downman family. I understand that William Downman & Ann Ball (whom you mentioned in your post below) are the parents of Traverse Downman who married Grace Ball, daughter of George Ball & Grace Haynie.

Craig,   For what it's worth (probably not much), Edwin Conway purchased from the estate of my ancestor Christopher Dameron (who married Sarah Ball) in 1764:   Buyers at the Estate Sale of Christopher Dameron:  David Ball, Jr., Bartholomew Dameron, George Dameron, Mayes Fletcher, Edwin Conway, Charles Pritchard, Mark Harding, Thomas Dameron, Stephen Swanson, John Mahanes, Sarah Dameron, ____ Chilton, John Leland.   Dec. 10, 1764, Executors George Ball & Bartholomew Dameron.    Source:  Northumberland County Record Book, Volume 6,  1762-1766,Page 508. FHL Film #32675.   Thanks. David From: Craig Kilby <[email protected]> To: DAVID BROWN <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 12:56 PM Subject: TRAVERS Downman David, I believe the name is TRAVERS, not TRAVERSE, though it may sometimes be transcribed that way. Craig On Sep 11, 2011, at 9:15 PM, DAVID BROWN wrote: > Thanks Kathleen for the information on the Downman family.  I understand that William Downman & Ann Ball (whom you mentioned in your post below) are the parents of Traverse Downman who married Grace Ball, daughter of George Ball & Grace Haynie. 

Craig,   This is very interesting news concerning future research of the Ball family in England.   I thought the Ball family of the Northern Neck stemmed from Suffolk in England.   Is this not true or do we really have no idea?   There was supposedly a Ball/Dameron marriage in the early 1600's in Suffolk (see below), which many have attributed as evidence of an earlier connection between the two families.    "And there is still another item that seems to connect Col. William Ball with County Suffolk.  In the parish register of St. Matthew’s church, Ipswich, Suffolk, is the entry of the marriage, 17 November, 1605, of Thomas Ball and Anne Dameron, widow."   Source:  Ball, Cuppage and Dameron of Northumberland County, Virginia By Charles H. Browning -- Genealogies of Virginia Families From the William and Mary College Quarterly Historical Magazine     Thanks. David From: Craig Kilby <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 1:39 PM Subject: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] HAYDEN vs HILL Downing/Ball Connections On a side note, a gentleman from New Jersey is much interested in all things Ball. He has relatives in England and will be going there next July and is donating one day of time at PRO in Kew [though we may send him to Northamtonshire instead]. We (MBW) are diligently working with him to collect anything and everything we know of written about Balls in England. It is a mass of material but Peter Walne's 1959 article remains the best source for clues, along with the first part of Heck's booklet written in the 1920s. Nancy McBride's book, *Gordon Kinship* has a lengthy section on records in England that she identified but did not examine. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Kathleen!   I didn't have this specific marriage record for Thomas Ball & Mildred Downman and appreciate you posting (as well as the other information you shared).   I guess what confuses me about this couple is why they are found in Amelia (and I believe Spotsylvana too) records, but then must have returned to Northumberland Co., VA.   Does this return migration make sense???   I too agree that Thomas Ball (who married Mildred Downman) was son of George Ball, Jr. & Ann Taylor (George Ball, Jr. is, in turn, the son of George Ball, Sr. & Grace Haynie).  However, since Thomas  is called "Jr." in the record I posted, I'd just like to figure out the identity of Thomas Ball, Sr.  I would assume Thomas Ball, Sr. was either an uncle or older cousin to Thomas Ball, Jr. My opinion is that Harris had maiden name of Ball and married a Downman.   Someone else has shared that Harris Ball married a William Downman.   It this is correct, any ideas on who this William Downman may have been?   Could he be a brother to Travers who married Grace Ball and Robert who married Elizabeth Porteus (parents to Mildred who married Thomas Ball, son of George Ball, Jr., brother to aforementioned Harris Ball & Grace Ball)???? Thanks again! David P.S. By the way, I stumbled upon this information, which I thought was interesting.  I believe the below Joseph Dameron was a grandson of Christopher Dameron & Sarah Ball (i.e., a first cousin to my ancestor Christopher Dameron who married Sarah Ingram and died in Caswell Co., NC in c.1807).  Is the Col. Downman mentioned below actually Raleigh Downman??? The Pensions Declaration of Joseph Dameron of Caswell County, N.C., says he was a private under Capt. Mumford and Col. Downman, 1780, entered the militia from Amelia County, Va., first and later in 1781 joined up from Brunswick County, Va., where his "father lived" who owned the plantation in Amelia which Joseph had managed as overseer. In 1781 he marched to N.C. with Capt. Win. Harrison and Col. Robt. Mumford, and was at the Battle of Guilford Courthouse and at Rumsous Mills.  George(Ball?) B. Dameron testified for the pension saying he was "too young" to go with Joseph into the army.   Joseph Dameron in his paper no. 7129 said he was b. Feb. 2, 1763, Northumberland County, Va., lived in Amelia, then returned to Brunswick, Va. finall;r moving to Caswell County, N.C. Source: Dameron Genealogy by Helen Foster Snow. From: Kathleen Much <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 1:09 PM Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Downing/Ball Connections G.H.S King, _Marriages of Richmond County, VA, 1668-1853_ (Easley, SC: Southern Historical Press, 1986), p. 8: "BALL, THOMAS and Mildred Downman, bond 3 April 1766. Raleigh Downman (b). [She was born in North Farnham Parish, 6 March 1749, the daughter of Captain Robert Downman and his wife nee Elizabeth Porteus. Thomas and Mildred Ball moved to Amelia County, Virginia, and appear frequently on those records. AB#2, P. 4; WB#7, P. 40, 48.]"

G.H.S King, _Marriages of Richmond County, VA, 1668-1853_ (Easley, SC: Southern Historical Press, 1986), p. 8: "BALL, THOMAS and Mildred Downman, bond 3 April 1766. Raleigh Downman (b). [She was born in North Farnham Parish, 6 March 1749, the daughter of Captain Robert Downman and his wife nee Elizabeth Porteus. Thomas and Mildred Ball moved to Amelia County, Virginia, and appear frequently on those records. AB#2, P. 4; WB#7, P. 40, 48.]" Margaret Lester Hill, _Ball Families of Virginia's Northern Neck, An Outline_ (Mary Ball Washington Museum, 1990), p. 39: "Thomas Ball (George, George, William, Wm.), d. May 1814-Feb 1816 [Northumberland Co., VA, _Record Book 20_: 353-355]. Mbnd 3 Apr 1766, Richmond Co., VA, Mildred Downman (b. 1749), daughter of Elizabeth Porteus and Capt. Robert Downman." If Hill is right, Thomas was the son of Capt George Ball d 1770 and Anna Taylor d 1782. That makes him the grandson of Grace Haynie. Calling him "junior" doesn't mean he's the son of another Thomas, just that there was an elder Thomas somewhere in the neighborhood. The Balls were prolific, so that's not out of the question. Horace Edwin Hayden, _Virginia Genealogies_ (Wilkes-Barre, PA, 1891), p. 67: "55. iii. Capt. George, d. 1770; will dat. June 29, 1770; pro. North'd Co. Oct 8, 1770 (Bk 8, 73). Names father, Capt. George Ball, and mother, Grace Ball, brothers Joseph, Richard, and David, wife Ann, sister Grace Downman, grandson David Ball Jr., and children as given. 'George Ball Jr., m. June 14, 1736, Ann Taylor, Lanc'r Co., dau. of Elizabeth, with the mother's consent. Witnessed by Merriatt Taylor (L). Mr. B. was Justice and mem. North'd Co. Court 1753, and Sheriff July 1757, with David Ball as his Deputy. Vestryman of Wicomico Par. 1770. "Children (will): 1. David. ii. Thomas. iii. Sarah. iv. Martha. v. Mary Taylor." I have no information about Harris Ball, called Harris Downman in her mother's will. I've wondered whether she was Harris Downman Ball or Harris (Ball) Downman; i.e., was Downman her middle or her married name? Kathleen On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 David Brown wrote: > > Thanks Kathleen for the information on the Downman family. ? I understand > that William Downman & Ann Ball (whom you mentioned in your post below) are > the parents of Traverse Downman who married Grace Ball, daughter of George > Ball & Grace Haynie. ?Grace Ball had a sister named Sarah Ball who married > Christopher Dameron (they are my ancestors -- Christopher Dameron was son of > Bartholomew Dameron & Elizabeth Garlington). ? Additionally, there was a > sister named Harris Ball who also married a Downman. ? Do you or anyone on > this List know who Harris Ball married (see record transcription below > mentioning "Harris Downman")? > > > I believe Traverse Downman who married Grace Ball had a niece named Mildred > Downman (daughter, I think of Robert Downman & Elizabeth Porteus) who > married Thomas Ball, son of George Ball, Jr., (son of George Ball, Sr. & > Grace Haynie). ? Can you or anyone else confirm this is true? ?A record > below identifies Thomas Ball as "junior" thereby meaning there must have > been an older Thomas Ball. ? However, I'm not sure who that would be as I > don't show any sons named Thomas for George Ball, Sr. & Grace Haynie. ? Any > ideas? > >

Craig is right to doubt Elizabeth Thompson as wife of Edwin Conway 2d. She was Elizabeth Thornton. G.H.S. King, _Marriages of Richmond County, VA, 1668-1853_ (Easley, SC: Southern Historical Press, 1986), pp. 43-44: "CONWAY, EDWIN [Gentleman] (c. 1640-1698) married (1) Sarah Walker (c. 1663-1695), daughter of Colonel John Walker (16??-1668/9) by whom he had two children; m(2) 21 May 1695 Elizabeth Thornton (1674-1732/3), daughter of Francis and Alice (Savage) Thornton (q.v.), by whom he had an only child. Elizabeth (Thornton) Conway, widow, m(2) by 3 March 1698/9 Jonathan Gibson, Gentleman (16??-1729) and left issue by him. This last marriage is confirmed by COB #2, p. 331, 396, 442, and other records. Hayden, p. 231 favors us with a copy of the will of Edwin Conway, Gentleman, once of record in now lost WB#1, but errs in the surnames of both of his wives. The Rev. Mr. Hayden also fails to recognize the second marriage of the widow Conway to Jonathan Gibson, Gentleman, and her issue by him. If this marriage had been known to the Honorable T. Elliott Campbell, this fact would have explained considerable in regard to Jonathan Gibson and his family, so often mentioned by him in his _Colonial Caroline_ (Richmond, 1954). President James Madison (1751-1836), born upon his maternal ancestral lands at Port Conway, King George County, indicates in a genealogical diagram that his mother, Eleanor Rose ("Nellie") Conway (1731-1829), was the daughter of Francis and Rebecca (Catlett) Conway and granddaughter of Edwin and Elizabeth (Thornton) Conway. (_Madison Papers_, Volume I, p. 211). Bible record of Francis Thornton, Senior, Gentleman (1651-1726) in the Virginia Historical Society. There is an imperfect account of the Jonathan Gibson family by Olive Nelson Gibson in her _Descendants of John Nelson Sr. - Mary Toby, Stafford County, Virginia, 1740-1959 with Related Families_ (Redlands, California, 1961), p. 222 et seq." P. 77: "GIBSON, JONATHAN [GENTLEMAN] (16??-1729) of Richmond and King George counties, married by 3 March 1698/9 Elizabeth (Thornton) Conway (1674-1732/3), daughter of Francis and Alice (Savage) Thornton (q.v.) and widow of Edwin Conway, Gentleman (c. 1640-1698) of Richmond County (q.v.). COB#2, P. 331, 396, 442; see references cited under Edwin Conway, p. 43-44." Sarah Walker's mother, Sarah Burden, was married first to Col Henry Fleete, by whom she had a son, Henry Fleete. She m. 2) John Walker and had 3 daughters, Mary (possibly illegitimate, as she is called Mary Burden, not Mary Walker), Sarah Walker, and Esther Walker. She m. 3) Col John Stone and had a fourth daughter, Anne Stone. Henry Fleete was Sarah Walker's half-brother and thus Edwin Conway's brother-in-law. W.A. Crozier was confused when he said Conway's wife was Sarah Fleete, daughter of Henry. Sarah (Burden) Fleete Walker Stone declared in 1672 (Old Rap Co D/B5, pp. 10, 98) that her previous will was revoked and void, because her children had little respect for Col. Stone. Her son Henry Fleete was not to receive the silver buckle and one silver spoon, one feather bed and boulster, etc. when he came of age. I can't solve the problem of which children were Anne Ball's and which Anne Hack's. Edwin Conway 3d had nine children by two wives, or possibly eight, as we found 2 daughters named Anne in various accounts. The only child for whom I have a birthdate is Millicent b 1727. I agree that certainly George was a son of Anne Hack. I don't have a documented death date for either wife (though see below for Anne Hack's death date); Edwin d 1763, as Craig says. Linda Lawhon, a now deceased expert researcher, sent me this transcription: Conway Family of Virginia from the Richmond, Virginia, Times-Dispatch of January, 10th, 1904. "Third Generation "Edwin 3 ( and I cannot read all of this part) m1 Ann Ball in 1704, dau of ____ and Elizabeth Romney. He m 2 Ann Hack 1696-1747. Issue: 1. Elizabeth m. 1724 Christopher Garlinton 2. Anne m. 1729 Robert Edmonds 3. Mary m. THOMAS GASKINS 4. Agatha m. 1737 Cuthbert Spann 5. Peter m.1 Bettie Spann, m2 Bettie Lee 6. George m. Ann Heath 7. Hannah m. 1746 Tunstall Hack 8. Milicent m. 1742 Jas. Gordon." The newspaper did not cite sources, but it probably drew from the next citation (Wm & Mary College Quarterly is viewable through JSTOR if your library has a subscription): "Gaskins Family," WMCQ 11, no. 4 (Apr 1903), pp. 278-279: "Thomas^4 Gaskins (Thomas^3, Josias^2, Thomas^1), married Mary Conway, daughter of Col. Edwin Conway. His will, of which no copy exists, was presented in court by the exors. Mrs. Mary Gaskins and Mr Charles Jones August 8, 1737. He had issue, named in the will of Elizabeth Schreever: Elizabeth, Thomas, Edwin, Sarah Anne, John, and Ann." Kathleen Much On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 Craig wrote: > I am tasked with working out kinks and discrepancies in a revised > "Descendants of William ball" chart for the Mary Ball Washington. Based on > previous research by many of us, but notably Margaret Lester Hill, our > Executive Karen Hart, gave me a draft version yesterday with a list of 13 > discrepancies. > > I am hoping my fellow list members can point to a definitive resource on > the early Conway family in Virginia. > > Three of them involve Ann-3 Ball (Joseph-2, William-1) and her husband > Edwin Conway III. > > The most definitive work I can find on early Conways has been by Nancy S. > McBride in "Gordon Kinship (n.p.: McClure Printing Company, Inc., 1973) p. > 233-243. Edwin Conway III married twice: (1) Ann Ball ca 1704 and > who--according to McBride--died ca 1728 and (2) Ann Hack, daughter of Peter > and Mary (----) Hack. Hill gives the wife of Peter Fox as wife as > Elizabeth FOX. I don't know which one is correct. The only will for a Peter > Fox in Virginia is in Accomack County in 1717. He names his wife as > executrix but does not giver her a name. I suppose checking the Order Books > would be a simple solution for the name of his wife at the time he died. > > For Edwin Conway II, his father, McBride says she is Sarah Walker. I am > confused as to the name of his 2nd wife. His will in now-lost Richmond > County Will Book 1 mentions a brother-in-law Henry Fleete but in what > context this is meant is not at all clear. Others say his 2nd wife was an > Elizabeth Thompson, though I doubt this. > > Edwin II had one sister, Mary Conway who married (2) James Ball. I have not > begun to dig into this yet. > > Now, the really bugaboo is by which wife did Edwin Conway III have which > children? According to McBride, "Genealogists now agree, partly because of > names and dates, that all of his daughters were of the first marriage [to > Ann Ball] and both sons of the second marriage [to Ann Hack.] I am inclined > to agree with her. Certainly George Conway was the son of Ann Hack, as he > named a son Peter Hack Conway. > > Now we get into a discrepancy on the daughters and their spouses. > > McBride lists five: > > 1. Elizabeth mar Christopher Garlington in 1724. This is not in doubt. > > 2. Ann married Robert Edmonds. This is not in doubt, though are no Edmonds > grandchildren named in the will of Edwin Conway III. > > 3. Mary mar Thomas Gaskins. This IS in doubt. She is not included in Hill's > list. The only thing I've found stating this is *Virginia Genealogies from > William & Mary Quarterly* vol. II, p. 91. I don't know when it was > originally written, or by whom. I need to look up the original. This is not > in doubt, though are no Gaskins grandchildren named in the will of Edwin > Conway III. > > 4. Agatha Conway married Cuthbert Spann. This is not in doubt. But, there > are no Spann grandchildren named in the will of Edwin Conway III. > > 5. Millicent Conway, married Col. James Gordon. This is not in doubt for > his own bible tells us so. Still, are no Gordon grandchildren named in the > will of Edwin Conway III. > > Peggy Hill adds another daughter, who IS in doubt: > > 6. Hannah, who per Hill citing Tyler's Quarterly Vol. 7, p 253-262 (which > I have not reviewed), married Tunstall Hack. This may or may not be true. > The will of Tunstall Hack does name some of the heirs of Edwin Conway III > (Ann, above, and grandson George, son of George). > > While Hill does not specifically state who is the mother of which child, > McBride is of the opinion that the two sons (Peter and George) are by Ann > Hack. > > Meanwhile, this is at most 8 children. In The McCarty's of the Northern > Neck, William McCarty and our fellow list member Kathleen Much do not give > much attention to this family but merely state that Ann Ball married Edwin > Conway III and "had nine children." > >

Janean, I think your Sydnor researcher is confused. Ann Ball Conway ca 1728. It was Edwin Conway III who died 4 OCT 1764 (not 3 OCT 1764 as is often reported. I take the date of 4 OCT 1764 from Col. James Gordon's journal of that which says Col. Edwin Conway died early THAT morning. James Gordon was his son-in-law). The 2nd wife of Edwin Conway III was Ann Hack, daughter of Peter Hack. This much is not in dispute. Edwin Conway's will was dated 27 JUL 1763, recorded 21 JUN 1764 (Lee, pg 57 citing WB 17, p. 30). I am not sure about how many children were by the first marriage to Ann Ball. The GORDON book says they were all daughters, and the two sons (Peter and George) were by Ann Hack. I am inclined to agree with that, especially son George who named son Peter Hack Conway, and is named in Edwin's will as such. There is two daughters in question (by Ann Ball) are Mary and Hannah Conway. There was no widow when Edwin died. He was 81 years old and had outlived both wives. I am using very little from Hayden for this research. I am not sure on Edwin II. His wife was Sarah when he died, and it is fairly well accepted that his wife was Sarah WALKER. Hope this helps a little bit. Craig On Sep 12, 2011, at 1:12 AM, Janean Ray wrote: > Ok let me see if I can decipher this > > Edwin Conway III m. Ann Ball (Joseph, William).... 1704...... however Anne > Ball b. 1686 d. 3 Oct. 1764 and this information was given to my by a Sydnor > researcher of 30 years. However the notes I have on their daughter Ann > Conway.. are as follows: Hayden shows parents of Ann Conway as Col.Edwin > Conway b. Lancaster Co., VA, 1681; d. Oct 3, 1763; will dated July 27, 1762, > pro. Lancaster Co. Jan 20, 1764; m. (1) 1704, Anne Ball, b. 1686, dau. of > Col. Joseph and Elizabeth (Romney) Ball; m. (2) Ann Hack b. 1697, d. 28 Aug > 1747. > There were 7 children by the first marriage : Ann, Elizabeth, Agatha, Peter, > George, Hannah b. 1724, Millicent b. 1727 > > So WHO was the widow at the time of Edwin's death..... certainly he couldn't > have married Ann Hack 2nd if Ann Ball d. in 1764..... and Ann Hack dying in > 1747. But any will is just going to say my wife ANN and that doesn't help > unless he specifies people/grandchildren by my first wife etc. that would > narrow it down. Does James Gordon's journals tell any tell? I have about 4 > pages of them I can look at too if you don't have them. > > I don't have all the Edwin's or something is out of order. I have Ediwn > Conway and Sarah Fleete with Col. Edwin Conway (Ann Ball) and Mary Conway > (Col. James Ball)(John Daingerfield) > > You named Ann Balls husband as Edwin III but then said Edwin II had sister > Mary Conway that m. James Ball....... I show her as the sister of Edwin III > son of Edwin Conway and Sarah Fleete..... so is HIS father then Edwin I? > > Edwin I > Edwin II (Sarah Fleete/Walker) > Edwin III (Ann Ball) sister Mary Conway (James Ball) When you get to Mary > and James I have 9 children for them. Lol > > Janean > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Craig Kilby > Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 8:57 PM > To: Northern Neck Northern Neck List > Subject: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] CONWAY FAMILY > > Hello all, > > I knew this would come, and it has. I am tasked with working out kinks and > discrepancies in a revised "Descendants of William ball" chart for the Mary > Ball Washington. Based on previous research by many of us, but notably > Margaret Lester Hill, our Executive Karen Hart, gave me a draft version > yesterday with a list of 13 discrepancies. > > I am hoping my fellow list members can point to a definitive resource on the > early Conway family in Virginia. > > Three of them involve Ann-3 Ball (Joseph-2, William-1) and her husband Edwin > Conway III. > > The most definitive work I can find on early Conways has been by Nancy S. > McBride in "Gordon Kinship (n.p.: McClure Printing Company, Inc., 1973) p. > 233-243. Edwin Conway III married twice: (1) Ann Ball ca 1704 and > who--according to McBride--died ca 1728 and (2) Ann Hack, daughter of Peter > and Mary (----) Hack. Hill gives the wife of Peter Fox as wife as > Elizabeth FOX. I don't know which one is correct. The only will for a Peter > Fox in Virginia is in Accomack County in 1717. He names his wife as > executrix but does not giver her a name. I suppose checking the Order Books > would be a simple solution for the name of his wife at the time he died. > > For Edwin Conway II, his father, McBride says she is Sarah Walker. I am > confused as to the name of his 2nd wife. His will in now-lost Richmond > County Will Book 1 mentions a brother-in-law Henry Fleete but in what > context this is meant is not at all clear. Others say his 2nd wife was an > Elizabeth Thompson, though I doubt this. > > Edwin II had one sister, Mary Conway who married (2) James Ball. I have not > begun to dig into this yet. > > Now, the really bugaboo is by which wife did Edwin Conway III have which > children? According to McBride, "Genealogists now agree, partly because of > names and dates, that all of his daughters were of the first marriage [to > Ann Ball] and both sons of the second marriage [to Ann Hack.] I am inclined > to agree with her. Certainly George Conway was the son of Ann Hack, as he > named a son Peter Hack Conway. > > Now we get into a discrepancy on the daughters and their spouses. > > McBride lists five: > > 1. Elizabeth mar Christopher Garlington in 1724. This is not in doubt. > > 2. Ann married Robert Edmonds. This is not in doubt, though are no Edmonds > grandchildren named in the will of Edwin Conway III. > > 3. Mary mar Thomas Gaskins. This IS in doubt. She is not included in Hill's > list. The only thing I've found stating this is *Virginia Genealogies from > William & Mary Quarterly* vol. II, p. 91. I don't know when it was > originally written, or by whom. I need to look up the original. This is not > in doubt, though are no Gaskins grandchildren named in the will of Edwin > Conway III. > > 4. Agatha Conway married Cuthbert Spann. This is not in doubt. But, there > are no Spann grandchildren named in the will of Edwin Conway III. > > 5. Millicent Conway, married Col. James Gordon. This is not in doubt for > his own bible tells us so. Still, are no Gordon grandchildren named in the > will of Edwin Conway III. > > Peggy Hill adds another daughter, who IS in doubt: > > 6. Hannah, who per Hill citing Tyler's Quarterly Vol. 7, p 253-262 (which I > have not reviewed), married Tunstall Hack. This may or may not be true. The > will of Tunstall Hack does name some of the heirs of Edwin Conway III (Ann, > above, and grandson George, son of George). > > While Hill does not specifically state who is the mother of which child, > McBride is of the opinion that the two sons (Peter and George) are by Ann > Hack. > > Meanwhile, this is at most 8 children. In The McCarty's of the Northern > Neck, William McCarty and our fellow list member Kathleen Much do not give > much attention to this family but merely state that Ann Ball married Edwin > Conway III and "had nine children." > > So without further belaboring the point, I'd be most interested in the most > recent thinking on this family. > > Many thanks, > > Craig Kilby > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Ok let me see if I can decipher this Edwin Conway III m. Ann Ball (Joseph, William).... 1704...... however Anne Ball b. 1686 d. 3 Oct. 1764 and this information was given to my by a Sydnor researcher of 30 years. However the notes I have on their daughter Ann Conway.. are as follows: Hayden shows parents of Ann Conway as Col.Edwin Conway b. Lancaster Co., VA, 1681; d. Oct 3, 1763; will dated July 27, 1762, pro. Lancaster Co. Jan 20, 1764; m. (1) 1704, Anne Ball, b. 1686, dau. of Col. Joseph and Elizabeth (Romney) Ball; m. (2) Ann Hack b. 1697, d. 28 Aug 1747. There were 7 children by the first marriage : Ann, Elizabeth, Agatha, Peter, George, Hannah b. 1724, Millicent b. 1727 So WHO was the widow at the time of Edwin's death..... certainly he couldn't have married Ann Hack 2nd if Ann Ball d. in 1764..... and Ann Hack dying in 1747. But any will is just going to say my wife ANN and that doesn't help unless he specifies people/grandchildren by my first wife etc. that would narrow it down. Does James Gordon's journals tell any tell? I have about 4 pages of them I can look at too if you don't have them. I don't have all the Edwin's or something is out of order. I have Ediwn Conway and Sarah Fleete with Col. Edwin Conway (Ann Ball) and Mary Conway (Col. James Ball)(John Daingerfield) You named Ann Balls husband as Edwin III but then said Edwin II had sister Mary Conway that m. James Ball....... I show her as the sister of Edwin III son of Edwin Conway and Sarah Fleete..... so is HIS father then Edwin I? Edwin I Edwin II (Sarah Fleete/Walker) Edwin III (Ann Ball) sister Mary Conway (James Ball) When you get to Mary and James I have 9 children for them. Lol Janean -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Craig Kilby Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 8:57 PM To: Northern Neck Northern Neck List Subject: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] CONWAY FAMILY Hello all, I knew this would come, and it has. I am tasked with working out kinks and discrepancies in a revised "Descendants of William ball" chart for the Mary Ball Washington. Based on previous research by many of us, but notably Margaret Lester Hill, our Executive Karen Hart, gave me a draft version yesterday with a list of 13 discrepancies. I am hoping my fellow list members can point to a definitive resource on the early Conway family in Virginia. Three of them involve Ann-3 Ball (Joseph-2, William-1) and her husband Edwin Conway III. The most definitive work I can find on early Conways has been by Nancy S. McBride in "Gordon Kinship (n.p.: McClure Printing Company, Inc., 1973) p. 233-243. Edwin Conway III married twice: (1) Ann Ball ca 1704 and who--according to McBride--died ca 1728 and (2) Ann Hack, daughter of Peter and Mary (----) Hack. Hill gives the wife of Peter Fox as wife as Elizabeth FOX. I don't know which one is correct. The only will for a Peter Fox in Virginia is in Accomack County in 1717. He names his wife as executrix but does not giver her a name. I suppose checking the Order Books would be a simple solution for the name of his wife at the time he died. For Edwin Conway II, his father, McBride says she is Sarah Walker. I am confused as to the name of his 2nd wife. His will in now-lost Richmond County Will Book 1 mentions a brother-in-law Henry Fleete but in what context this is meant is not at all clear. Others say his 2nd wife was an Elizabeth Thompson, though I doubt this. Edwin II had one sister, Mary Conway who married (2) James Ball. I have not begun to dig into this yet. Now, the really bugaboo is by which wife did Edwin Conway III have which children? According to McBride, "Genealogists now agree, partly because of names and dates, that all of his daughters were of the first marriage [to Ann Ball] and both sons of the second marriage [to Ann Hack.] I am inclined to agree with her. Certainly George Conway was the son of Ann Hack, as he named a son Peter Hack Conway. Now we get into a discrepancy on the daughters and their spouses. McBride lists five: 1. Elizabeth mar Christopher Garlington in 1724. This is not in doubt. 2. Ann married Robert Edmonds. This is not in doubt, though are no Edmonds grandchildren named in the will of Edwin Conway III. 3. Mary mar Thomas Gaskins. This IS in doubt. She is not included in Hill's list. The only thing I've found stating this is *Virginia Genealogies from William & Mary Quarterly* vol. II, p. 91. I don't know when it was originally written, or by whom. I need to look up the original. This is not in doubt, though are no Gaskins grandchildren named in the will of Edwin Conway III. 4. Agatha Conway married Cuthbert Spann. This is not in doubt. But, there are no Spann grandchildren named in the will of Edwin Conway III. 5. Millicent Conway, married Col. James Gordon. This is not in doubt for his own bible tells us so. Still, are no Gordon grandchildren named in the will of Edwin Conway III. Peggy Hill adds another daughter, who IS in doubt: 6. Hannah, who per Hill citing Tyler's Quarterly Vol. 7, p 253-262 (which I have not reviewed), married Tunstall Hack. This may or may not be true. The will of Tunstall Hack does name some of the heirs of Edwin Conway III (Ann, above, and grandson George, son of George). While Hill does not specifically state who is the mother of which child, McBride is of the opinion that the two sons (Peter and George) are by Ann Hack. Meanwhile, this is at most 8 children. In The McCarty's of the Northern Neck, William McCarty and our fellow list member Kathleen Much do not give much attention to this family but merely state that Ann Ball married Edwin Conway III and "had nine children." So without further belaboring the point, I'd be most interested in the most recent thinking on this family. Many thanks, Craig Kilby ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Janean, Was this also from the Journal of Col. James Gordon? If so, what year? Yes the Chinn men seem to have literally gotten away with murder. I'm surprised somebody didn't "off" one of them. On Sep 12, 2011, at 12:36 AM, Janean Ray wrote: > Craig, I searched briefly my records for any information and couldn't find > anything except this: > > September 8. "Mr. Waddel advised Mr. Mitchell from going to the races at Mr. > Chin's, & discouraged Col. Selden from going. O, what reason we have to be > thankful that we have a minister who will watch over his flock that they may > not go astray." >

Craig, I searched briefly my records for any information and couldn't find anything except this: September 8. "Mr. Waddel advised Mr. Mitchell from going to the races at Mr. Chin's, & discouraged Col. Selden from going. O, what reason we have to be thankful that we have a minister who will watch over his flock that they may not go astray." But considering he was my 6th Great Grandfather...... and a CHINN I'm assuming he got off like his father before him and his son Rawleigh AFTER him..... being charged with the murder of a slave and found not guilty. Money Talks! Janean -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Craig Kilby Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 11:56 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] The Murder of Ann (Conway) Edmunds CHINN Ooops again. It was "Mrs. CHINN" who departed this life, her husband at the time being Thomas Chinn. Corrected below. On Sep 11, 2011, at 10:56 PM, Craig Kilby wrote: > In going through some of the Gordon material, I notice a note I had made about Ann (Conway Edmunds Chinn, in the journal of Col. James Gordon on 26 JAN 1761:* > > "Mrs CHINN departed this life last Friday night. I heard today [the 26th] that Col. Conway [her father] has given notice to have a jury on her before she is buried, for it is reported her husband was the occasion of her death by beating & abusing her. O Lord, how are the hearts of men corrupted when devoid of they grace! O, preserve us from the many & great evils that surround us, & make religion & virtue & increase among us." > > Ann Conway was the daughter of Edwin Conway III and his first wife, Ann Ball. Her first husband was Robert Edmunds whom she married in Lancaster in 1729. She married Thomas Chinn in 1752. > > Ann Conway and Thomas Chinn were first cousins through their mothers. He was the son of Rawleigh Chinn and Easter Ball--another tumultuous marriage. She was his second wife. > > *Journal of Col. James Gordon, of Lancaster County, VA", William & Mary Quarterly, Vol. XI, No. 4 (April 1903), 217. > > I do not know what became of the inquisition, but I'd like to find out! > > Craig > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ooops again. It was "Mrs. CHINN" who departed this life, her husband at the time being Thomas Chinn. Corrected below. On Sep 11, 2011, at 10:56 PM, Craig Kilby wrote: > In going through some of the Gordon material, I notice a note I had made about Ann (Conway Edmunds Chinn, in the journal of Col. James Gordon on 26 JAN 1761:* > > "Mrs CHINN departed this life last Friday night. I heard today [the 26th] that Col. Conway [her father] has given notice to have a jury on her before she is buried, for it is reported her husband was the occasion of her death by beating & abusing her. O Lord, how are the hearts of men corrupted when devoid of they grace! O, preserve us from the many & great evils that surround us, & make religion & virtue & increase among us." > > Ann Conway was the daughter of Edwin Conway III and his first wife, Ann Ball. Her first husband was Robert Edmunds whom she married in Lancaster in 1729. She married Thomas Chinn in 1752. > > Ann Conway and Thomas Chinn were first cousins through their mothers. He was the son of Rawleigh Chinn and Easter Ball--another tumultuous marriage. She was his second wife. > > *Journal of Col. James Gordon, of Lancaster County, VA", William & Mary Quarterly, Vol. XI, No. 4 (April 1903), 217. > > I do not know what became of the inquisition, but I'd like to find out! > > Craig > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

In going through some of the Gordon material, I notice a note I had made about Ann (Conway Edmunds Chinn, in the journal of Col. James Gordon on 26 JAN 1761:* "Mrs Gordon departed this life last Friday night. I heard today [the 26th] that Col. Conway [her father] has given notice to have a jury on her before she is buried, for it is reported her husband was the occasion of her death by beating & abusing her. O Lord, how are the hearts of men corrupted when devoid of they grace! O, preserve us from the many & great evils that surround us, & make religion & virtue & increase among us." Ann Conway was the daughter of Edwin Conway III and his first wife, Ann Ball. Her first husband was Robert Edmunds whom she married in Lancaster in 1729. She married Thomas Chinn in 1752. Ann Conway and Thomas Chinn were first cousins through their mothers. He was the son of Rawleigh Chinn and Easter Ball--another tumultuous marriage. She was his second wife. *Journal of Col. James Gordon, of Lancaster County, VA", William & Mary Quarterly, Vol. XI, No. 4 (April 1903), 217. I do not know what became of the inquisition, but I'd like to find out! Craig

Hello all, I knew this would come, and it has. I am tasked with working out kinks and discrepancies in a revised "Descendants of William ball" chart for the Mary Ball Washington. Based on previous research by many of us, but notably Margaret Lester Hill, our Executive Karen Hart, gave me a draft version yesterday with a list of 13 discrepancies. I am hoping my fellow list members can point to a definitive resource on the early Conway family in Virginia. Three of them involve Ann-3 Ball (Joseph-2, William-1) and her husband Edwin Conway III. The most definitive work I can find on early Conways has been by Nancy S. McBride in "Gordon Kinship (n.p.: McClure Printing Company, Inc., 1973) p. 233-243. Edwin Conway III married twice: (1) Ann Ball ca 1704 and who--according to McBride--died ca 1728 and (2) Ann Hack, daughter of Peter and Mary (----) Hack. Hill gives the wife of Peter Fox as wife as Elizabeth FOX. I don't know which one is correct. The only will for a Peter Fox in Virginia is in Accomack County in 1717. He names his wife as executrix but does not giver her a name. I suppose checking the Order Books would be a simple solution for the name of his wife at the time he died. For Edwin Conway II, his father, McBride says she is Sarah Walker. I am confused as to the name of his 2nd wife. His will in now-lost Richmond County Will Book 1 mentions a brother-in-law Henry Fleete but in what context this is meant is not at all clear. Others say his 2nd wife was an Elizabeth Thompson, though I doubt this. Edwin II had one sister, Mary Conway who married (2) James Ball. I have not begun to dig into this yet. Now, the really bugaboo is by which wife did Edwin Conway III have which children? According to McBride, "Genealogists now agree, partly because of names and dates, that all of his daughters were of the first marriage [to Ann Ball] and both sons of the second marriage [to Ann Hack.] I am inclined to agree with her. Certainly George Conway was the son of Ann Hack, as he named a son Peter Hack Conway. Now we get into a discrepancy on the daughters and their spouses. McBride lists five: 1. Elizabeth mar Christopher Garlington in 1724. This is not in doubt. 2. Ann married Robert Edmonds. This is not in doubt, though are no Edmonds grandchildren named in the will of Edwin Conway III. 3. Mary mar Thomas Gaskins. This IS in doubt. She is not included in Hill's list. The only thing I've found stating this is *Virginia Genealogies from William & Mary Quarterly* vol. II, p. 91. I don't know when it was originally written, or by whom. I need to look up the original. This is not in doubt, though are no Gaskins grandchildren named in the will of Edwin Conway III. 4. Agatha Conway married Cuthbert Spann. This is not in doubt. But, there are no Spann grandchildren named in the will of Edwin Conway III. 5. Millicent Conway, married Col. James Gordon. This is not in doubt for his own bible tells us so. Still, are no Gordon grandchildren named in the will of Edwin Conway III. Peggy Hill adds another daughter, who IS in doubt: 6. Hannah, who per Hill citing Tyler's Quarterly Vol. 7, p 253-262 (which I have not reviewed), married Tunstall Hack. This may or may not be true. The will of Tunstall Hack does name some of the heirs of Edwin Conway III (Ann, above, and grandson George, son of George). While Hill does not specifically state who is the mother of which child, McBride is of the opinion that the two sons (Peter and George) are by Ann Hack. Meanwhile, this is at most 8 children. In The McCarty's of the Northern Neck, William McCarty and our fellow list member Kathleen Much do not give much attention to this family but merely state that Ann Ball married Edwin Conway III and "had nine children." So without further belaboring the point, I'd be most interested in the most recent thinking on this family. Many thanks, Craig Kilby

Regarding the record I posted in my last missive (posting again below), I initially thought Ann Dameron listed as a witness was a sister to Bartholomew and Grace.   However, it has occurred to me that she may actually be the wife of Bartholomew Dameron (he married Anne Morehead).   This would make sense since (just as I mention in my notes below) Christopher Dameron did not mention a daughter Ann in his 1763 will. Thanks. David ________________________________ From: DAVID BROWN <[email protected]> Know all men by ye presents that we Traverse Downman and Grace his wife in the Parish of St. Stephens the county of Northumberland are held and firmly bound unto George Ball of the Parish of Wicomoco of the county aforesaid  in the full and just sum of 800 pounds Current Money of Virginia to be paid unto the said George Ball his heirs Executors & Administrators____ to the which payment ___ ____ ___ truly to be made and done we bind ourselves our heirs our Executors  and Administrators ___ firmly by these presents sealed with our own hand and dated this fifth day of October 1754. The condition of this above obligation is such that whereas the above bounded Traverse Downman and Grace his wife doth covenant and agree with the above said George Ball that for the natural love and affection that they have unto their children and other good causes they do agree that immediately after Death of the above said Traverse Downman and Grace his wife that one third part of the twelve Negros that came by the said Grace his wife viz. Frank, James, Abraham, Jane, Judy, ____, Dinah, Tabitha, Milly, _____, Emanuel, and Cloe and their future increase should be equally divided between Ann and Mary Downman daughters of the said Traverse and Grace his wife and the child or children that shall be hereafter be begot by the said Traverse in the body of the said Grace his wife and their children be in case the said Ann and Mary and the child or children that shall be hereafter be begot  by the said Traverse of the body of Grace his wife should all of them depart this life without leaving any child or children that then immediately after the death of the said Mary and Ann and the child or children if there should be any born as aforesaid that then ye said one third part of the aforesaid twelve Negros and their future increase should be immediately equally divided between George David & Joseph Ball and Harris Downman Brothers and Sisters to the said Grace and their Heirs.   Now know ye that if the said Traverse Downman and Grace his Wife their Heirs Executors and Administrators Ye shall well and truly in all things fulfill and keep the above said Condition and Agreement then that ye above obligation to be void and of non effect otherwise to be and remain in full force power and virtue. Signed Sealed and Delivered in presence of Bartho Dameron                                                                                       Traverse Downman (seal) Ann Dameron (her mark)                                                                     Grace Downman (her mark) Grace Dameron (her mark) Source:  Northumberland County Record Book, Volume 3, , 1753-1756, Page 153-154. FHL Film #32673. Notes:  Bartholomew Dameron & Grace Dameron both mentioned in June 28, 1763 will of Christopher Dameron who married Sarah Ball.  Ann Dameron not mentioned; therefore, presume she may have died prior to the writing of the will. 

Thanks Kathleen for the information on the Downman family.   I understand that William Downman & Ann Ball (whom you mentioned in your post below) are the parents of Traverse Downman who married Grace Ball, daughter of George Ball & Grace Haynie.  Grace Ball had a sister named Sarah Ball who married Christopher Dameron (they are my ancestors -- Christopher Dameron was son of Bartholomew Dameron & Elizabeth Garlington).   Additionally, there was a sister named Harris Ball who also married a Downman.   Do you or anyone on this List know who Harris Ball married (see record transcription below mentioning "Harris Downman")? I believe Traverse Downman who married Grace Ball had a niece named Mildred Downman (daughter, I think of Robert Downman & Elizabeth Porteus) who married Thomas Ball, son of George Ball, Jr., (son of George Ball, Sr. & Grace Haynie).   Can you or anyone else confirm this is true?  A record below identifies Thomas Ball as "junior" thereby meaning there must have been an older Thomas Ball.   However, I'm not sure who that would be as I don't show any sons named Thomas for George Ball, Sr. & Grace Haynie.   Any ideas? I'm pasting a couple of records of interest below. Thanks! David Know all men by ye presents that we Traverse Downman and Grace his wife in the Parish of St. Stephens the county of Northumberland are held and firmly bound unto George Ball of the Parish of Wicomoco of the county aforesaid  in the full and just sum of 800 pounds Current Money of Virginia to be paid unto the said George Ball his heirs Executors & Administrators____ to the which payment ___ ____ ___ truly to be made and done we bind ourselves our heirs our Executors  and Administrators ___ firmly by these presents sealed with our own hand and dated this fifth day of October 1754. The condition of this above obligation is such that whereas the above bounded Traverse Downman and Grace his wife doth covenant and agree with the above said George Ball that for the natural love and affection that they have unto their children and other good causes they do agree that immediately after Death of the above said Traverse Downman and Grace his wife that one third part of the twelve Negros that came by the said Grace his wife viz. Frank, James, Abraham, Jane, Judy, ____, Dinah, Tabitha, Milly, _____, Emanuel, and Cloe and their future increase should be equally divided between Ann and Mary Downman daughters of the said Traverse and Grace his wife and the child or children that shall be hereafter be begot by the said Traverse in the body of the said Grace his wife and their children be in case the said Ann and Mary and the child or children that shall be hereafter be begot  by the said Traverse of the body of Grace his wife should all of them depart this life without leaving any child or children that then immediately after the death of the said Mary and Ann and the child or children if there should be any born as aforesaid that then ye said one third part of the aforesaid twelve Negros and their future increase should be immediately equally divided between George David & Joseph Ball and Harris Downman Brothers and Sisters to the said Grace and their Heirs.   Now know ye that if the said Traverse Downman and Grace his Wife their Heirs Executors and Administrators Ye shall well and truly in all things fulfill and keep the above said Condition and Agreement then that ye above obligation to be void and of non effect otherwise to be and remain in full force power and virtue. Signed Sealed and Delivered in presence of Bartho Dameron                                                                                       Traverse Downman (seal) Ann Dameron (her mark)                                                                     Grace Downman (her mark) Grace Dameron (her mark) Source:  Northumberland County Record Book, Volume 3, , 1753-1756, Page 153-154. FHL Film #32673. Notes:  Bartholomew Dameron & Grace Dameron both mentioned in June 28, 1763 will of Christopher Dameron who married Sarah Ball.  Ann Dameron not mentioned; therefore, presume she may have died prior to the writing of the will.    Deed Book 10:   354-(533) Thomas Ball Jr & his wife Mildred of Amelia Co to Richard Lanier of Brunswick Co.   1 Aug 1771.   40 Pounds VA.   100 acres in St. Andrew Parish, joining Hugh Williams, sd Richard Lanier, James Quarles, Xpher Haskins, as by deeds from Joshua Draper & Sampson Caudle to sd John Caudle.  Wit:  Hugh Williams, Christ Dameron, Moses Quarles, James Quarles, Persons Anderson.    Source:  Dr. Stephen E. Bradley, Jr., “Brunswick County, Virginia Deed Books, Volume 5, 1770-1775, p. 51”  Notes:  I believe this Thomas Ball, Jr. (why Jr.?) was son of George Ball, Jr. & grandson of George Ball, Sr.   I think his wife may have been Mildred Downman, daughter of Robert Downman & Elizabeth Porteus.   Christopher Dameron mentioned as witness was son of Bartholomew Dameron & Anne Morehead and a grandson to Christopher Dameron who married Sarah Ball.

Thanks Kathleen for the information on the Downman family.   I understand that William Downman & Ann Ball (whom you mentioned in your post below) are the parents of Traverse Downman who married Grace Ball, daughter of George Ball & Grace Haynie.  Grace Ball had a sister named Sarah Ball who married Christopher Dameron (they are my ancestors -- Christopher Dameron was son of Bartholomew Dameron & Elizabeth Garlington).   Additionally, there was a sister named Harris Ball who also married a Downman.   Do you or anyone on this List know who Harris Ball married (see record transcription below mentioning "Harris Downman")? I believe Traverse Downman who married Grace Ball had a niece named Mildred Downman (daughter, I think of Robert Downman & Elizabeth Porteus) who married Thomas Ball, son of George Ball, Jr., (son of George Ball, Sr. & Grace Haynie).   Can you or anyone else confirm this is true?  A record below identifies Thomas Ball as "junior" thereby meaning there must have been an older Thomas Ball.   However, I'm not sure who that would be as I don't show any sons named Thomas for George Ball, Sr. & Grace Haynie.   Any ideas? I'm pasting a couple of records of interest below. Thanks! David Know all men by ye presents that we Traverse Downman and Grace his wife in the Parish of St. Stephens the county of Northumberland are held and firmly bound unto George Ball of the Parish of Wicomoco of the county aforesaid  in the full and just sum of 800 pounds Current Money of Virginia to be paid unto the said George Ball his heirs Executors & Administrators____ to the which payment ___ ____ ___ truly to be made and done we bind ourselves our heirs our Executors  and Administrators ___ firmly by these presents sealed with our own hand and dated this fifth day of October 1754. The condition of this above obligation is such that whereas the above bounded Traverse Downman and Grace his wife doth covenant and agree with the above said George Ball that for the natural love and affection that they have unto their children and other good causes they do agree that immediately after Death of the above said Traverse Downman and Grace his wife that one third part of the twelve Negros that came by the said Grace his wife viz. Frank, James, Abraham, Jane, Judy, ____, Dinah, Tabitha, Milly, _____, Emanuel, and Cloe and their future increase should be equally divided between Ann and Mary Downman daughters of the said Traverse and Grace his wife and the child or children that shall be hereafter be begot by the said Traverse in the body of the said Grace his wife and their children be in case the said Ann and Mary and the child or children that shall be hereafter be begot  by the said Traverse of the body of Grace his wife should all of them depart this life without leaving any child or children that then immediately after the death of the said Mary and Ann and the child or children if there should be any born as aforesaid that then ye said one third part of the aforesaid twelve Negros and their future increase should be immediately equally divided between George David & Joseph Ball and Harris Downman Brothers and Sisters to the said Grace and their Heirs.   Now know ye that if the said Traverse Downman and Grace his Wife their Heirs Executors and Administrators Ye shall well and truly in all things fulfill and keep the above said Condition and Agreement then that ye above obligation to be void and of non effect otherwise to be and remain in full force power and virtue. Signed Sealed and Delivered in presence of Bartho Dameron                                                                                       Traverse Downman (seal) Ann Dameron (her mark)                                                                     Grace Downman (her mark) Grace Dameron (her mark) Source:  Northumberland County Record Book, Volume 3, , 1753-1756, Page 153-154. FHL Film #32673. Notes:  Bartholomew Dameron & Grace Dameron both mentioned in June 28, 1763 will of Christopher Dameron who married Sarah Ball.  Ann Dameron not mentioned; therefore, presume she may have died prior to the writing of the will.    Deed Book 10:   354-(533) Thomas Ball Jr & his wife Mildred of Amelia Co to Richard Lanier of Brunswick Co.   1 Aug 1771.   40 Pounds VA.   100 acres in St. Andrew Parish, joining Hugh Williams, sd Richard Lanier, James Quarles, Xpher Haskins, as by deeds from Joshua Draper & Sampson Caudle to sd John Caudle.   Wit:  Hugh Williams, Christ Dameron, Moses Quarles, James Quarles, Persons Anderson.    Source:  Dr. Stephen E. Bradley, Jr., “Brunswick County, Virginia Deed Books, Volume 5, 1770-1775, p. 51”  Notes:  I believe this Thomas Ball, Jr. (why Jr.?) was son of George Ball, Jr. & grandson of George Ball, Sr.   I think his wife may have been Mildred Downman, daughter of Robert Downman & Elizabeth Porteus.   Christopher Dameron mentioned as witness was son of Bartholomew Dameron & Anne Morehead and a grandson to Christopher Dameron who married Sarah Ball. ________________________________ From: Kathleen Much <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 3:07 PM Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] William Downman d 1712 & Wife Elizabeth There was another William, the son of Million and William. He was born 1685 and died between 1739 and 1741. He married Anne Ball and had 7 children (Bill McCarty and I found no evidence that a Francis was among the children, as _The Chinn Book_ claims. We think Margaret Lewis misread "Travis" as "Francis". It was an alternate spelling of "Travers", William's mother's surname). Kathleen

Janean is right that William's (d 1712) only wife was Million Travers; probably the mention of "Elizabeth" as executrix either refers to their daughter or is an error. William and Million had 9 children, including Elizabeth b 26 Jan 1688/9. Janean is also right to caution against using abstracts alone. In particular, the attribution of the 1727 will is a glaring error. When I got hold of a photocopy of it, it was obvious to me that it is MILLION Downman's will, not another William's as Headley has it in his abstracts. I suspect that he read it in a hurry and wasn't expecting the given name Millan, which does look similar to William in an 18th-century hand. Men's wills are much more common than women's, anyway. A number of researchers have contorted the evidence of the abstracts to conjure up another William Downman in the sequence. He did not exist. Richmond Co., VA, Will Book 5, pp. 75-76, photocopy in possession of K. Much: "March 31: 1727. In the name of God amen. I Millan [sic] Downman of the County of Richmond and in the parrish of North Farnham being in perfect health and memory but considering the uncertainty of this life I do make this my Last Will and Testament in manner and form following, first: I give my soul into the hand of almighty God who gave it me and I Bequeath my body to the Earth to receive Christian Burial and as for the worldly goods God hath Blest me with I Bestow as followeth. I give unto my son Travers Downman four Negroes and their increase Mary, James, Anne, and Flora. I give them to him and his heirs for ever they are already received. Item I give unto my above said son one feather Bed and furniture if not received already. I lend unto my Daughter Priscilla Heale five negroes with their increase for the term of her life Dinah, King, Robin, Dick, and Hester, and I give the above said negroes and their increase unto the heirs Lawfully Begotten of her Body but for want of such heirs the above said negroes and increase shall return to my sons and Daughters or my next heirs at Law. Item I give unto my aforesaid Daughter tenn [?] sheep. Item I give unto my two grand sons William and Rawleigh sons of my son Rawleigh Downman the iith [?] part of that Estate left by my sister Elizabeth Wormley but the same shall remain in the hands of my two sons to be mannaged for their best advantage untill they come to twenty years of age and then they shall have it themselves. I lend unto my Daughter Elizabeth Downman During her life one Negroe Wooman and her increase and I give the above said Negroe to her heirs Lawfully Begotten of her body but for want of such heirs the above negroe and increase shall return to my sons or my next heirs at Law. I order as much of this Estate as I possess as will be four parts and each part made equall by men [?] to that part my Daughter Heale had which parts I give to be equally divided to my sons William Downman and Travers Downman and my two Daughters Millian Glasscock and Elizabeth Downman each one taking their part by Lott. Item I give unto my Daughter Elizabeth one feather bed and furniture, and all the rest of my Estate I give to be equally Divided Between my two sons and my three Daughters William Downman and Travers Downman Millian Glasscock Elisabeth Downman and Priscilla Heale, after my Debts and Legacies paid I give all my wearing cloths to be eaqually Divided Between my three Daughters. Lastly I make and appoint my two sons to be whole and sole executors of this my Last Will and Testament. Signed seald and declared in presence of us. "The Eighth day of June 1727. William Glasscock, Tobias Phillips, and Caron Brannon in open court made oath that they are acquainted with the handwriting of Mrs: Million Downman Late Deceased, and that they do verily believe this Will was wrote by her, also William Downman Gent. made oath in court that he found this writing amongst the said Million Downman's papers and doth verily believe to be her own handwriting Whereupon on the motion of the said William Downman the same is ordered to be Recorded. Test. W: Beckwith Clk. Court." There was another William, the son of Million and William. He was born 1685 and died between 1739 and 1741. He married Anne Ball and had 7 children (Bill McCarty and I found no evidence that a Francis was among the children, as _The Chinn Book_ claims. We think Margaret Lewis misread "Travis" as "Francis". It was an alternate spelling of "Travers", William's mother's surname). Kathleen On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 2:01 AM, Janean wrote: > > Ok I think I've figured it out...... Basically, Elizabeth is their > daughter. > Mom, Million was unable to come to court to administer the oath of her > husbands will when they wanted to prove it on May 7th 1712 so John Tarpley > and James Griffin went to her.... to administer the oath and they then made > a report thereof and returned that to court to be present at the next court > with the Will. THEN, on June 4, 1712 The Last Will and Testament of > WILLIAM DOWNEMAN, deced., was this proved in Court by the Oath of WILLIAM > ACKERS and WILLIAM GOAD and ordered to be recorded, and ELIZABETH DOWNEMAN, > the Executrix therein named having taken the Oath of an Exrx. before Capt. > JOHN TARPLEY and Mr. THOMAS GRIFFIN according to a former Order of this > Court, Probate of her Husband's Estate is accordingly granted her.. > > So basically she stepped in "the executrix therein named having taken the > oat before John Tarpley and Thomas Griffin..... according to a former > order. > I think there are some important words missing here... this is an > abstract... so not complete and taken out of context. > > Here are my notes on William Downman > > Downman, William. 23 May, 1711 - 4 June, 1712. Son Rawleigh, son Robert, > son > Travers, son William; daughter Million, daughter Elizabeth; son Glascock; > daughter Priscilla. > > > Downman, William. 8 June, 1727 - 21 March, 1728. Son Travers; daughter > Priscilla; grandsons William and Rawleigh, sons of son Rawleigh Downman; > sons William and Travers, and daughters Million Glasscock and Elizabeth > Downman and Priscilla Heale. > > William Downman, North Farnham Parish, Richmond Co., Will; 23 May 1711, 4 > Jun 1712 > son Rawleigh tract of land bought of Edward King called "Mt. Sion" and 250 > ac. bought of Charles Caleb; son Travers all the land I bought of Arthur > [Attey] in the forest of Moraticon; son William what moneys son Glascock > owes me for the millstones and what belongs to them; daus. Million, > Elizabeth, Priscilla; ex: wife; wits: Abraham Goad, William Ackers, William > Goad. > > So I think Elizabeth was named Executrix to stand in for her mother in > court > per a previous order of the Probate of Williams estate... I think the > wording is just confusing. > > A year later William Fox filed a complaint against the estate it appears > and > names John Tarpley..... Mrs. Million Downman and George Glasscock who > happened to be Millions' son-in-law. I think if you saw the whole will it > would make much more sense. > >