Hannah Fox, dau. of David Fox d 1669, married Capt John Mottrom. Their son was Spencer Mottrom Sr, who m. Sarah Young and had Spencer Jr and Mary. David Fox d 1669 is the father of David (1647-1702) who m. Hannah Ball. Carolyn H. Jett, _Heathsville, yesterday and today_ (Woman's Club of Northumberland County, Heathsville, VA, 1980), p. 43: "By 1705, Spencer was dead, and his daughter Mary Mottrom chose Richard Ball as her guardian. (ob1699-1713:344) Soon afterward, Mary, daughter of Spencer Mottrom, became the wife of Joseph Ball. (ob1699-1713:451) Evidence will be presented later to show that some of Spencer Mottrom's Black Point property went into the hands of the heirs of Joseph and Mary Mottrom Ball. . . . "Now let us turn to Mottrom's land which went into the possession of the Ball family when Joseph Ball married Mary Mottrom. By 1721, Joseph Ball was dead. In his will, he left land to his daughter Sarah on condition that his 'loving wife' would give each of their sons, Joseph and William Ball, 'part of her lands at Black Point.' (rb1718-1726:225) "The next mention of Black Point comes in the year 1767, in the will of Spencer Ball. To his son Jesse, he bequeathed 'the upper part of my land called Black Point containing 400 acres.' But if Jesse died without male issue, the land was to go to Spencer's son William Ball. (rb7:50) In 1769, Jesse Ball died, presumably without issue, as he left his property to his brother James and a brother-in-law. (rb7:325) This meant that the Black Point property would go to William Ball, as directed by his father's will, which entailed the property." On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 Janean wrote: > > > May I inquire before I input David Fox-1 if you know, who he was married > to. > THIS David Fox-2 is the only one I have. I only had as children Hannah and > William so changing my database will be easy enough but I had Hannah as m. > to Spencer Mottrom s/o John.... with daughter Mary who m. Joseph Ball and > William Loury. > > With Mary Mottrom and Capt. Joseph Ball b. 15 Oct. 1680 d. 11 Sept. 1721. > I show 5 children one of which and probably 1st born is Col. Spencer Ball > b. > 14 Mar 1707. and another son William Ball m. Hannah Kenner. > > SO if Hannah Fox didn't m. Spencer Mottrom I have a line of descent really > really wrong. > > Can I get clarification on this Spencer Mottrom gentleman and exactly who > he > married if not Hannah Fox-2 and where this line truly belongs? Because > once > I change what I have to what you have..... this line is out there dangling. > >

"Fox Family," William & Mary Quarterly, series 1, vol. 17, no. 1 (Jul. 1908), p. 62: "Samuel^3 Fox (David^2, David^1) married Anne, probably daughter of John Payne and Ann Walker. See Quarterly VIII, 96. He died about 1712, when his inventory was recorded January 1, 1712, value £1010.6.3. His wife, Ann, died about 1722." What's the evidence that Ann was nee Daingerfield? Ann's sister Frances was married to a Daingerfield. Sam Sparacio <[email protected]> post to VA-ROOTS 19 May 1998: "Essex County Order Book, 1693-1694, p. 306. Court of 13 August 1694. The Condicon of this obligacon is such that whereas EDWIN THACKER has this day obteyned a Lycence for his Marriage with MRS. FRANCES DAINGERFIELD." "Fox Family," William & Mary Quarterly, series 1, vol. 17, no. 1 (Jul. 1908), p. 62-63: "Deed of Henry Thacker, recorded at Middlesex Court House. Henry Thacker (of ye parish of Christ Church) & Elizabeth, his wife, to Edwin Thacker, a tract of land given by John Payne, Sen^r, late of Rappahannock County, dec'd, unto Anne Payne, his daughter-in-law, late wife to his son, John Payne, Jun., dec'd, for & during the said Ann Payne's natural life, & after her decease unto the child then in her womb begotten by his said son, John Payne Jr., which said child is Elizabeth ye said wife of Henry Thacker, land in Rappahannock County on Pepetiak Creek. Date 17 April 1690. "Will of Mrs. Ann Fox. To brother William Daingerfield a ring, to sister Frances Thacker a ring, to cousin Ann Thacker 1 doz. silver spoons of £5 value & one silver cane of £5 value, & one mourning ring to cousin Edwin Daingerfield 1 doz. silver spoons of £5 value & one silver cane of £5 value, & a mourning ring to cousin Martha Daingerfield the same. All the spoons and canes to be marked A.F. To cousin Edwin Thacker a ring & to my cousin, Elizabeth, his wife, a ring, to Rev. Bartholomew Yates a ring, for his wife Sarah, a ring, to cousin Elizabeth Vivion a ring, to Ann Burges, of England, a ring, to my daughter Frances, the wife of Charles Burges, a ring & two orphan children named Kell (?) until their time is expired & to her also all rest of my estate. To my son, Charles Burges, a ring, & appoint him and my daughter Frances Executors. Date March 13, 1722. Proved June 12, 1723." Sisters Elizabeth and Frances married brothers Henry and Edwin Thacker. "Cousin Edwin Thacker" and "Cousin Elizabeth, his wife" were the son of Frances and the daughter of Elizabeth--both Thackers and first cousins. Presumably "brother William Daingerfield" is the brother of Frances's dead husband and cousins Edwin and Martha Daingerfield are Frances's children. Hayden gives the birthdates of Samuel as 28 Feb 1674[/5?] and William as 20 Jan 1673/4. What's the evidence that he got them backwards? I'd say that David Fox died in childhood (age 7), not infancy, but that's a minor point. I don't see anything about a daughter Mary in William Fox's will as published in "Fox Family". William & Mary College Quarterly, series 1, vol. 14, no. 3 (Jan. 1906), p. 178: "William Fox speaks of his niece, Frances Spelman, in his will, proved in 1718." "Fox Family," William & Mary Quarterly, series 1, vol. 17, no. 1 (Jul. 1908), pp. 61-62: "Will of William Fox. To sister Hannah Spellman the use of 4 negroes during life and then to her daughter Frances Spellman, and if she die without issue to Elizabeth Vaulx [note: Elizabeth Kenner, daughter of Rodham Kenner and Hannah Fox, married 1) Richard Bushrod, son of Thomas B; 2) Robert Vaulx, of Westmoreland County; 3) Rev. Lawrence De Butts. Richard Bushrod married Elizabeth Kenner, daughter of Rodham Kenner and died leaving his wife with child of a son Richard, 1712 (North'd Co. Rec.). Robert Vaulx and Elizabeth, his wife, one of the daus. and legatees of Rodham Kenner, Aug. 21, 1712. In his will proved January 18, 1727, Richard Kenner mentions his sister, Elizabeth DeButts.] & Hannah Harris [note: Hannah Harris was another daughter of Rodham Kenner. In 1704 mention is made of Richard Hull and Hannah, his wife, one of the daughters of Rodham Kenner. In 1718 John Harris made his will naming wife Hannah. In 1720, Mrs. Hannah Crallé, formerly Mrs. Hull, relict of Richard Hull, presented estate of Richard Hull Jr.]. To wife Anne a negro girl for life & then to Elizabeth, daughter of Capt. George Heale. To said Elizabeth Heale 3 negroes & if she dies without issue to Ellen & Sarah Heale. To Ellen, daughter of Capt. George Heale two negroes, with reversion to Elizabeth & Sarah Heale. To nephew David Fox my watch & silver tobacco box. Sister Anne Fox a ring, to sister Hannah Spellman a ring, to William Dare £6 to buy his wife rings, to sister Catherine Heale a ring, to James Reeves & William Atchison a cow & calf each. to Thomas Frayser my wearing clothes, except my broad cloth suit trimmed with gold, my new silk suit that came in this year & my new beaver hat & silk stockings. To parish church of St. Mary's White Chapel the font that came in this year, & it is my will that my wife send for the Lord's prayer & creed well drawn in gold letters & my name under each of them set in black frames, to give to the said church. Whole estate, as it now stands, to wife for life, to nieces Frances Spellman & Frances Fox all the negro children that shall be born for seven years. My clothes before excepted to Major William Ball & James Ball. To Capt. George Heale [husband of wife's sister Catherine Chinn Heale] £5, William Payne £5, nephew Richard Kenner [note: for Kenner family see Quarterly XIV, 173] £6; after death of wife estate given to his nephew, David Fox, except plate (not here mentioned) which he gives to wife Anne; but if said nephew dies without issue give estate to Frances Fox, Frances Spellman & all the daughters of George Heale then alive. To Elizabeth, daughter of George Heale, 10 head of cattle. Wife and Mr. William Payne executor. Dated March 22, 1717-1718. Proved Nov. 12, 1718. "After the death of William Fox, his widow married Richard Chichester, Esq. (Marriage bond dated July 11, 1719)" Kathleen On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 Craig wrote: > > I'll start with David-2 Fox and wife Hannah Ball, daughter of William-1 > Ball, emigrant. This will be a change to many of your data bases. This > couple had only four children, and only three who survived to adulthood. > Son David-3 (b. 10 Oct 1672, died in infancy in Jan 1780, n.s.). The other > three (and only other three) are: > > 1. Hannah Fox , b 25 JUL 1671 who married (1) Rodham Kenner and (2) > Clement Spellman. She is named in the 1718 will of her brother as "sister > Hannah Spellman." I don't when she died. > > 2. Capt. Samuel Fox, b. 28 Feb 1672/3. Married Ann Daingerfield. Died > 1712, Lancaster County, intestate. His two children are named in the will of > his brother William Fox as "niece Frances Fox" and "nephew David Fox." This > will also names his "sister" [i.e. "sister-in-law"" Ann Fox. Some have > confused the language of William's will go mean it was his blood sister and > thus a daughter of David-2 Fox and Hannah Ball. This is not the case. > > 3. William Fox, b. 20 Jan 1673/4. Married Ann Chinn, daughter of > John-1 and Alice (-----) Chinn. His 1718 will names wife Ann and only one > child, a daughter Mary, who apparently died young. She is not named in the > will of her mother, Ann (Chinn) Fox Chichester (widow of Richard Chichester, > her 2nd husband). We believe this is how a fictional daughter Mary got added > to some of the published genealogies as a child of David-2 Fox and Hannah > Ball. His will also names "Sister" Catherine Heale, wife of George Heale. > Again, she was a sister-in-law, and she was Catherine Chinn, another > daughter of John-1 and Alice (-----) Chinn. And again, some have turned her > into a blood sister of WIlliam Fox and such is not the case. > > There were two more to dispose of as children of David-1 Fox and Hannah > Ball: Mary (explained above) and a questionable son Henry Fox. The source > for Henry Fox being included as a child in this family SEEMS to go back to a > footnote in Hayden's *Virginia Genealogies* when he says there was a Henry > Fox in King William County who "MAY" be a son of David-1 Fox, father of > David-2. Regardless, he is NOT a son in this family. >

This should have read: "There were two more _CHILDREN_ to dispose of as children of David-2 Fox [not David-1 Fox] and Hannah Ball" instead of "David-1 and Hannah Ball" as I wrote. I apologize (again.) Craig On Sep 14, 2011, at 1:01 AM, Craig Kilby wrote: >> There were two more [children] to dispose of as children of David-1 Fox and Hannah >> Ball: Mary (explained above) and a questionable son Henry Fox. The source >> for Henry Fox being included as a child in this family SEEMS to go back to a >> footnote in Hayden's *Virginia Genealogies* when he says there was a Henry >> Fox in King William County who "MAY" be a son of David-1 Fox, father of >> David-2. Regardless, he is NOT a son in this family

Janean: My focus has not been on David-1 Fox, but I have some done some work on him. According to what I have assembled: David-1 Fox, emigrant. First land patent was in 1650 for land on Morattico Creek in Lancaster County. That makes him a very early settler in the Northern Neck. His was Mary (-----), mother of three of his children, viz: (1) David-2 (m. Hannah Ball) (2) Hannah-2 (m. John-2 Mottrom, son of pioneer John-1 Mottrom of Northumberland & Westmoreland Counties) (3) Rebecca-2 (m. Robert Tomlin The 2nd wife of David-1 Fox was Ann MOTRROM, daughter of John-1 Mottrom, as above. Yes, this confusing quite quickly. (Supposedly) By Ann Mottrom, David-1 Fox had two more children: (4) William Fox (I have no further data at the moment) (5) Elizabeth Fox (I have no further data at the moment) But like I said, I haven't gotten into the nitty gritty of this bunch. It is not part of my immediate mission. I have several articles before me on this family to wade through. Your time line below looks to be very much in error. The people you are discussing are of MUCH later vintage, well into the 1700s. Good thread to start, however. Craig On Sep 13, 2011, at 11:01 PM, Janean Ray wrote: > May I inquire before I input David Fox-1 if you know, who he was married to. > THIS David Fox-2 is the only one I have. I only had as children Hannah and > William so changing my database will be easy enough but I had Hannah as m. > to Spencer Mottrom s/o John.... with daughter Mary who m. Joseph Ball and > William Loury. > > With Mary Mottrom and Capt. Joseph Ball b. 15 Oct. 1680 d. 11 Sept. 1721. > I show 5 children one of which and probably 1st born is Col. Spencer Ball b. > 14 Mar 1707. and another son William Ball m. Hannah Kenner. > > SO if Hannah Fox didn't m. Spencer Mottrom I have a line of descent really > really wrong. > > Can I get clarification on this Spencer Mottrom gentleman and exactly who he > married if not Hannah Fox-2 and where this line truly belongs? Because once > I change what I have to what you have..... this line is out there dangling. > > > Janean > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Craig Kilby > Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:23 PM > To: Northern Neck Northern Neck List > Subject: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] David-2 Fox & Hannah Ball > > Hello all, > > I spent the afternoon (Tuesday, Sept 13, 2011) with MBW volunteer Barbara > Whitbeck going through some inconsistencies in various sources, including > Peggy Hill's *Ball Outline* and need to share our conclusions with all of > you. > > I'll start with David-2 Fox and wife Hannah Ball, daughter of William-1 > Ball, emigrant. This will be a change to many of your data bases. This > couple had only four children, and only three who survived to adulthood. > Son David-3 (b. 10 Oct 1672, died in infancy in Jan 1780, n.s.). The other > three (and only other three) are: > > 1. Hannah Fox , b 25 JUL 1671 who married (1) Rodham Kenner and (2) > Clement Spellman. She is named in the 1718 will of her brother as "sister > Hannah Spellman." I don't when she died. > > 2. Capt. Samuel Fox, b. 28 Feb 1672/3. Married Ann Daingerfield. Died > 1712, Lancaster County, intestate. His two children are named in the will of > his brother William Fox as "niece Frances Fox" and "nephew David Fox." This > will also names his "sister" [i.e. "sister-in-law"" Ann Fox. Some have > confused the language of William's will go mean it was his blood sister and > thus a daughter of David-2 Fox and Hannah Ball. This is not the case. > > 3. William Fox, b. 20 Jan 1673/4. Married Ann Chinn, daughter of John-1 > and Alice (-----) Chinn. His 1718 will names wife Ann and only one child, a > daughter Mary, who apparently died young. She is not named in the will of > her mother, Ann (Chinn) Fox Chichester (widow of Richard Chichester, her 2nd > husband). We believe this is how a fictional daughter Mary got added to some > of the published genealogies as a child of David-2 Fox and Hannah Ball. His > will also names "Sister" Catherine Heale, wife of George Heale. Again, she > was a sister-in-law, and she was Catherine Chinn, another daughter of John-1 > and Alice (-----) Chinn. And again, some have turned her into a blood sister > of WIlliam Fox and such is not the case. > > There were two more to dispose of as children of David-1 Fox and Hannah > Ball: Mary (explained above) and a questionable son Henry Fox. The source > for Henry Fox being included as a child in this family SEEMS to go back to a > footnote in Hayden's *Virginia Genealogies* when he says there was a Henry > Fox in King William County who "MAY" be a son of David-1 Fox, father of > David-2. Regardless, he is NOT a son in this family. > > And...believe it or not. This was the "easy" part today. I have two more > corrections to send out in separate emails: the line of Ann Ball Conway and > James-4 Ball of Bewdley. Those were a bit more entangled. > > Craig > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks Craig, I should have cleared that up when I posted. I was in a hurry leaving work and didn't make it clear. As far as Easter..... I was typing the information AS this Gertrude Griffin had done. But you're right we need to type it always correctly in order to get it changed to the proper way. Janean -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Craig Kilby Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:41 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Ball research in England Janean, To clarify to our readers, the information you are citing was a document found handwritten in the 1880s in Kentucky. I wouldn't want people to think this came from your research. I agree the Romney/Rogers or maybe something else entirely is up in the air. NOW...I will again be the lone dissenter on the name "Esther" Ball. It was EASTER Ball. That is how she clearly signed her own name to her own will (admittedly, I only have the recorded copy, but the clerk who copied it would have no doubt known her name quite well, considering all the consternation she had with her husband Rawleigh Chinn.) And, she is almost always referred to as EASTER in the records, not ESTHER. But, this has become so rampantly disseminated and repeated for so long I doubt I will ever be able to stamp it out. Frankly, I don't put a lot of stock in Gertrude Chinn Brockenbrough's data, as she was living in Kentucky and writing two centuries after the fact. And her lack of information on others is evident. I am of the opinion she was in correspondence with Rev. Horace Hayden as it was at this time he was writing his book. I don't think she woke up one morning and decided to draw a genogram. Craig On Sep 13, 2011, at 5:19 PM, Janean Ray wrote: > Kathleen FYI..... I just received a copy of a family lineage by a descendant > of the Sarah Yates and John Chinn line and not too far down the line > either.... Who wrote Col Joseph Ball b. May 25, 1649 m. 1st Miss Rogers - > then widow Mary Johnson > > Anyway... Here is the line AS WRITTEN BY GERTRUDE CHINN BROCKENBROUGH ca 1888 BEGIN QUOTE: > > Esther Ball 1706 Raleigh Chinn > Elizabeth Ball (1) Wife Unknown by me..... 1727............ Joseph Chinn > Sarah Yates................ 1765............. John Chinn of Lancaster b. > 1739 > Joseph Chinn son of above............. John Yates........ Son of above > Married > Elizabeth Griffin > Whose mother was Judith Ball > Issue > John Leroy and Jos. Wm. > (descendant-living) (my father) > married Marianna Smith of Mortico Hall > > ISSUE > > Gertrude Griffin............................. J.W. Chinn born 1836 > who married Ro. S. Hipkins married in 1860 > Gabriella Brockenbrough END QUOTE ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

May I inquire before I input David Fox-1 if you know, who he was married to. THIS David Fox-2 is the only one I have. I only had as children Hannah and William so changing my database will be easy enough but I had Hannah as m. to Spencer Mottrom s/o John.... with daughter Mary who m. Joseph Ball and William Loury. With Mary Mottrom and Capt. Joseph Ball b. 15 Oct. 1680 d. 11 Sept. 1721. I show 5 children one of which and probably 1st born is Col. Spencer Ball b. 14 Mar 1707. and another son William Ball m. Hannah Kenner. SO if Hannah Fox didn't m. Spencer Mottrom I have a line of descent really really wrong. Can I get clarification on this Spencer Mottrom gentleman and exactly who he married if not Hannah Fox-2 and where this line truly belongs? Because once I change what I have to what you have..... this line is out there dangling. Janean -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Craig Kilby Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:23 PM To: Northern Neck Northern Neck List Subject: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] David-2 Fox & Hannah Ball Hello all, I spent the afternoon (Tuesday, Sept 13, 2011) with MBW volunteer Barbara Whitbeck going through some inconsistencies in various sources, including Peggy Hill's *Ball Outline* and need to share our conclusions with all of you. I'll start with David-2 Fox and wife Hannah Ball, daughter of William-1 Ball, emigrant. This will be a change to many of your data bases. This couple had only four children, and only three who survived to adulthood. Son David-3 (b. 10 Oct 1672, died in infancy in Jan 1780, n.s.). The other three (and only other three) are: 1. Hannah Fox , b 25 JUL 1671 who married (1) Rodham Kenner and (2) Clement Spellman. She is named in the 1718 will of her brother as "sister Hannah Spellman." I don't when she died. 2. Capt. Samuel Fox, b. 28 Feb 1672/3. Married Ann Daingerfield. Died 1712, Lancaster County, intestate. His two children are named in the will of his brother William Fox as "niece Frances Fox" and "nephew David Fox." This will also names his "sister" [i.e. "sister-in-law"" Ann Fox. Some have confused the language of William's will go mean it was his blood sister and thus a daughter of David-2 Fox and Hannah Ball. This is not the case. 3. William Fox, b. 20 Jan 1673/4. Married Ann Chinn, daughter of John-1 and Alice (-----) Chinn. His 1718 will names wife Ann and only one child, a daughter Mary, who apparently died young. She is not named in the will of her mother, Ann (Chinn) Fox Chichester (widow of Richard Chichester, her 2nd husband). We believe this is how a fictional daughter Mary got added to some of the published genealogies as a child of David-2 Fox and Hannah Ball. His will also names "Sister" Catherine Heale, wife of George Heale. Again, she was a sister-in-law, and she was Catherine Chinn, another daughter of John-1 and Alice (-----) Chinn. And again, some have turned her into a blood sister of WIlliam Fox and such is not the case. There were two more to dispose of as children of David-1 Fox and Hannah Ball: Mary (explained above) and a questionable son Henry Fox. The source for Henry Fox being included as a child in this family SEEMS to go back to a footnote in Hayden's *Virginia Genealogies* when he says there was a Henry Fox in King William County who "MAY" be a son of David-1 Fox, father of David-2. Regardless, he is NOT a son in this family. And...believe it or not. This was the "easy" part today. I have two more corrections to send out in separate emails: the line of Ann Ball Conway and James-4 Ball of Bewdley. Those were a bit more entangled. Craig ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Janean, To clarify to our readers, the information you are citing was a document found handwritten in the 1880s in Kentucky. I wouldn't want people to think this came from your research. I agree the Romney/Rogers or maybe something else entirely is up in the air. NOW...I will again be the lone dissenter on the name "Esther" Ball. It was EASTER Ball. That is how she clearly signed her own name to her own will (admittedly, I only have the recorded copy, but the clerk who copied it would have no doubt known her name quite well, considering all the consternation she had with her husband Rawleigh Chinn.) And, she is almost always referred to as EASTER in the records, not ESTHER. But, this has become so rampantly disseminated and repeated for so long I doubt I will ever be able to stamp it out. Frankly, I don't put a lot of stock in Gertrude Chinn Brockenbrough's data, as she was living in Kentucky and writing two centuries after the fact. And her lack of information on others is evident. I am of the opinion she was in correspondence with Rev. Horace Hayden as it was at this time he was writing his book. I don't think she woke up one morning and decided to draw a genogram. Craig On Sep 13, 2011, at 5:19 PM, Janean Ray wrote: > Kathleen FYI..... I just received a copy of a family lineage by a descendant > of the Sarah Yates and John Chinn line and not too far down the line > either.... Who wrote Col Joseph Ball b. May 25, 1649 m. 1st Miss Rogers - > then widow Mary Johnson > > Anyway... Here is the line AS WRITTEN BY GERTRUDE CHINN BROCKENBROUGH ca 1888 BEGIN QUOTE: > > Esther Ball 1706 Raleigh Chinn > Elizabeth Ball (1) Wife Unknown by me..... 1727............ Joseph Chinn > Sarah Yates................ 1765............. John Chinn of Lancaster b. > 1739 > Joseph Chinn son of above............. John Yates........ Son of above > Married > Elizabeth Griffin > Whose mother was Judith Ball > Issue > John Leroy and Jos. Wm. > (descendant-living) (my father) > married Marianna Smith of Mortico Hall > > ISSUE > > Gertrude Griffin............................. J.W. Chinn born 1836 > who married Ro. S. Hipkins married in 1860 > Gabriella Brockenbrough END QUOTE

Hello all, I spent the afternoon (Tuesday, Sept 13, 2011) with MBW volunteer Barbara Whitbeck going through some inconsistencies in various sources, including Peggy Hill's *Ball Outline* and need to share our conclusions with all of you. I'll start with David-2 Fox and wife Hannah Ball, daughter of William-1 Ball, emigrant. This will be a change to many of your data bases. This couple had only four children, and only three who survived to adulthood. Son David-3 (b. 10 Oct 1672, died in infancy in Jan 1780, n.s.). The other three (and only other three) are: 1. Hannah Fox , b 25 JUL 1671 who married (1) Rodham Kenner and (2) Clement Spellman. She is named in the 1718 will of her brother as "sister Hannah Spellman." I don't when she died. 2. Capt. Samuel Fox, b. 28 Feb 1672/3. Married Ann Daingerfield. Died 1712, Lancaster County, intestate. His two children are named in the will of his brother William Fox as "niece Frances Fox" and "nephew David Fox." This will also names his "sister" [i.e. "sister-in-law"" Ann Fox. Some have confused the language of William's will go mean it was his blood sister and thus a daughter of David-2 Fox and Hannah Ball. This is not the case. 3. William Fox, b. 20 Jan 1673/4. Married Ann Chinn, daughter of John-1 and Alice (-----) Chinn. His 1718 will names wife Ann and only one child, a daughter Mary, who apparently died young. She is not named in the will of her mother, Ann (Chinn) Fox Chichester (widow of Richard Chichester, her 2nd husband). We believe this is how a fictional daughter Mary got added to some of the published genealogies as a child of David-2 Fox and Hannah Ball. His will also names "Sister" Catherine Heale, wife of George Heale. Again, she was a sister-in-law, and she was Catherine Chinn, another daughter of John-1 and Alice (-----) Chinn. And again, some have turned her into a blood sister of WIlliam Fox and such is not the case. There were two more to dispose of as children of David-1 Fox and Hannah Ball: Mary (explained above) and a questionable son Henry Fox. The source for Henry Fox being included as a child in this family SEEMS to go back to a footnote in Hayden's *Virginia Genealogies* when he says there was a Henry Fox in King William County who "MAY" be a son of David-1 Fox, father of David-2. Regardless, he is NOT a son in this family. And...believe it or not. This was the "easy" part today. I have two more corrections to send out in separate emails: the line of Ann Ball Conway and James-4 Ball of Bewdley. Those were a bit more entangled. Craig

Kathleen, Thank you very much for these suggestions. He is only devoting one day of time for this, but I have forwarded your email to him. I also sent him another package today with some interesting leads from the *Gordon Kinship* book plus the two pages in your McCarty book on the English Balls. There are definite questions in my mind about both Hannah ATHERALL/ATHEROLD and Elizabeth ROMNEY (or ROGERS). But if has only one day, it may be best spent in Northamtonshire Record Office. Maybe he'll become so intrigued he'll give us more time. As you know, the records are scattered all over the place. His original offer was one day at PRO in Kew. I don't know how long he will be there. It is summer and he is a professor of chemistry, so off for the summer I hope, and staying with relatives so maybe he can have an open-ended schedule. Time will tell. This has been very timely for us, since it coincides with a total review of the early Ball generations and thus getting our files and citations in order--I have some corrections to make on the Hannah Ball Fox line and the Ann Ball Conway line. I'll be posting those shortly. Craig On Sep 13, 2011, at 10:36 AM, Kathleen Much wrote: > Suggestions for the Ball researcher going to England: > Given the timing and location, *Easter Ball* and *Rawleigh Chinn's 1703 > marriage* in England (if it can be verified) could quite well tie to Widow > Mary (--) Johnson's 1707 marriage to Easter's dad, Joseph Chinn. > > > It would be helpful if we could find a *Millenbeck* or the parish register > for Stratford by Bow. We know the families traveled back and forth to > England with some regularity, so maybe Mary Johnson was an Essex girl who > married Joe in England rather than in VA. > > Elizabeth *Romney*/Romney is supposed to have come from London and married > Joseph Ball in 1675 or thereabouts. It's possible that her father, William, > will turn up in Boyd's London Inhabitants. If so, we can narrow down the > parishes where she might have married. > > > > I hauled out Phillimore and discovered that "Stratford by Bow in Essex" is > most likely *St* *Mary's, Stratford-le-Bow, in Middlesex*. It's just across > the river from West Ham, Essex, where present-day Stratford is. The index is > not clear on the location of the registers-- nothing appears in the column > for copies held at the SoG, but they do seem to be indexed in Boyd's > Marriage Index (now on computers at SoG). We should check 1675-ish and > 1700-1707 at the SoG. Phillimore's Index is now out of date concerning > locations of registers and other indexes. > > > > I am virtually certain that Wm Ball's wife, Hannah, was not an Atherold. > Peter Walne, "The English Ancestry of Colonel William Ball of Millenbeck," > (VA Mag of History & Biography, 67:399-405), pretty well demolishes that > claim, which dates back only to the mid-18th century. I'm not sure where we > could find her real name, though. > > > Kathleen Much > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Kathleen FYI..... I just received a copy of a family lineage by a descendant of the Sarah Yates and John Chinn line and not too far down the line either.... Who wrote Col Joseph Ball b. May 25, 1649 m. 1st Miss Rogers - then widow Mary Johnson Anyway... Here is the line Esther Ball 1706 Raleigh Chinn Elizabeth Ball (1) Wife Unknown by me..... 1727............ Joseph Chinn Sarah Yates................ 1765............. John Chinn of Lancaster b. 1739 Joseph Chinn son of above............. John Yates........ Son of above Married Elizabeth Griffin Whose mother was Judith Ball Issue John Leroy and Jos. Wm. (descendant-living) (my father) married Marianna Smith of Mortico Hall ISSUE Gertrude Griffin............................. J.W. Chinn born 1836 who married Ro. S. Hipkins married in 1860 Gabriella Brockenbrough Sooooo this line of descent was either written by Gertrude or her brother J.W. Chinn and they are claiming ROGERS not Romney. I have an Ellen Rogers who m. George Heale Notes for Ellen Rogers: William Heale was born after the death of his father, therefore was not mentioned in his father's will. His mother Ellen survived her husband twelve years. Her will, dated October 15, 1710 was proved December 13, 1710. She bequeathed to her son WILLIAM the five hundred acre tract she bought from Mr. Thomas Taylor and Elizabeth his wife on the branches of Captain Richard Ball's mill and also a lot in Queen's Town. But if WILLIAM died without issue, this land was to go to her son John Heale. To her son William she gave three slaves, the furniture in her chamber, her stock of cattle and hogs as well as her brandy still. Her sons John and Joseph were given the money they owed her. Slaves and personalty were given to her daughters Ellen, Elizabeth and Sarah Heale equally. To her daughter Ellen Heale, she gave one hundred acres "lying at Cherry Point, formerly given me by my mother as by deed of gift for the same recorded amongst the records of the County" (Northumberland). In case Elizabeth died without heirs, this land was to go to her son John Heale. Her daughter Mrs. Hannah Ball, wife of Captain William Ball, was given L5 Sterling; her son George was given a silver hilted sword and belt which was his father's and her son Nicholas was given twenty shillings sterling as his full share of her estate. Her books were to be divided equally among her three daughters and her son William, but Joseph was to have one entitled "Dolton County Justice". John and Joseph were made overseers of WILLIAM until he came of age and the three of them were named executors of her will. Could there be anything to this ROGERS name? Janean -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kathleen Much Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 10:37 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Ball research in England Suggestions for the Ball researcher going to England: Given the timing and location, *Easter Ball* and *Rawleigh Chinn's 1703 marriage* in England (if it can be verified) could quite well tie to Widow Mary (--) Johnson's 1707 marriage to Easter's dad, Joseph Chinn. It would be helpful if we could find a *Millenbeck* or the parish register for Stratford by Bow. We know the families traveled back and forth to England with some regularity, so maybe Mary Johnson was an Essex girl who married Joe in England rather than in VA. Elizabeth *Romney*/Ronney is supposed to have come from London and married Joseph Ball in 1675 or thereabouts. It's possible that her father, William, will turn up in Boyd's London Inhabitants. If so, we can narrow down the parishes where she might have married. I hauled out Phillimore and discovered that "Stratford by Bow in Essex" is most likely *St* *Mary's, Stratford-le-Bow, in Middlesex*. It's just across the river from West Ham, Essex, where present-day Stratford is. The index is not clear on the location of the registers-- nothing appears in the column for copies held at the SoG, but they do seem to be indexed in Boyd's Marriage Index (now on computers at SoG). We should check 1675-ish and 1700-1707 at the SoG. Phillimore's Index is now out of date concerning locations of registers and other indexes. I am virtually certain that Wm Ball's wife, Hannah, was not an Atherold. Peter Walne, "The English Ancestry of Colonel William Ball of Millenbeck," (VA Mag of History & Biography, 67:399-405), pretty well demolishes that claim, which dates back only to the mid-18th century. I'm not sure where we could find her real name, though. Kathleen Much ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Suggestions for the Ball researcher going to England: Given the timing and location, *Easter Ball* and *Rawleigh Chinn's 1703 marriage* in England (if it can be verified) could quite well tie to Widow Mary (--) Johnson's 1707 marriage to Easter's dad, Joseph Chinn. It would be helpful if we could find a *Millenbeck* or the parish register for Stratford by Bow. We know the families traveled back and forth to England with some regularity, so maybe Mary Johnson was an Essex girl who married Joe in England rather than in VA. Elizabeth *Romney*/Ronney is supposed to have come from London and married Joseph Ball in 1675 or thereabouts. It's possible that her father, William, will turn up in Boyd's London Inhabitants. If so, we can narrow down the parishes where she might have married. I hauled out Phillimore and discovered that "Stratford by Bow in Essex" is most likely *St* *Mary's, Stratford-le-Bow, in Middlesex*. It's just across the river from West Ham, Essex, where present-day Stratford is. The index is not clear on the location of the registers-- nothing appears in the column for copies held at the SoG, but they do seem to be indexed in Boyd's Marriage Index (now on computers at SoG). We should check 1675-ish and 1700-1707 at the SoG. Phillimore's Index is now out of date concerning locations of registers and other indexes. I am virtually certain that Wm Ball's wife, Hannah, was not an Atherold. Peter Walne, "The English Ancestry of Colonel William Ball of Millenbeck," (VA Mag of History & Biography, 67:399-405), pretty well demolishes that claim, which dates back only to the mid-18th century. I'm not sure where we could find her real name, though. Kathleen Much

On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 Connie wrote: > > Mary PEACHEY, widow of Samuel PEACHEY, was first married to James > BIDDLECOMB, who died bef. 8 Jan 1683/1684 in Old Rappahannock Co, VA. Mrs. > Mary TARPLEY, Mary PEACHEY's daughter by James BIDDLECOMB, was married to > James TARPLEY, who d. 1713 in Richmond Co, VA. James TARPLEY was the > brother of John TARPLEY of Richmond County. [Deed & Will Abst. of (Old) > Rappahannock Co, VA, Ruth & Sam Sparacio; Wills of Richmond Co, VA, > 1692-1800, Robert K. Headley, Jr.] > Thank you, Connie. Are you sure Mary Peachey was the widow of Samuel? Headley says he was William and implies that the 1713 will was his, though I think he was wrong there. Robert K. Headley Jr., _Wills of Richmond County, Virginia, 1699-1800_ (Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., 1983), p. 26, citing Wills and Inventories 1709-1719: "p. 151 - [William] Peachey, will; May 1713, 2 Sep 1713. Grdaus. Mary and Elizabeth Tarpley; dau. Mary Tarpley; chil. of James Biddlecomb; chil. of dau. Elizabeth Jones; ex: none named; pres. by Mrs. Mary Tarpley and prov. by the oath of John Tarpley Gent." Was William Peachey a brother of Capt. Samuel Peachey? And was Elizabeth Jones the daughter of Biddlecomb or Peachey? Kathleen Much

Mike, Mary PEACHEY, widow of Samuel PEACHEY, was first married to James BIDDLECOMB, who died bef. 8 Jan 1683/1684 in Old Rappahannock Co, VA. Mrs. Mary TARPLEY, Mary PEACHEY's daughter by James BIDDLECOMB, was married to James TARPLEY, who d. 1713 in Richmond Co, VA. James TARPLEY was the brother of John TARPLEY of Richmond County. [Deed & Will Abst. of (Old) Rappahannock Co, VA, Ruth & Sam Sparacio; Wills of Richmond Co, VA, 1692-1800, Robert K. Headley, Jr.] 1713-1714 Richmond Co VA Order Book 6; Antient Press: (Page 138) Richmond County Court 2d of September 1713 - The Nuncupative Will of MARY PEACHEY, deced., was presented in Court by MRS. MARY TARPLEY, who made Oath thereto, and JOHN TARPLEY, Gent., upon Oath, that he wrote the same by the directions of the deced., and that at the time of takeing the said directions to the best of his Judgment she was in perfect sence and memory; whereupon it is admitted to Record. And at the motion of MRS. MARY TARPLEY and her performing what is usuall in such case, Certificate is granted her for obtaining Letters of Administration with the Will annext in due form - FRANCIS LUCAS, EDGCOMB SUGGITT, JAMES SUGGITT and GILES WEBB or any three of them are appointed sometime between this and the next Court to inventory and appraise all and singular the Estate of MRS. MARY PEACHEY, deced., as shall be presented to their view /the said Estate to be appraised in money and make report thereof to the next Court. WILLIAM WOODBRIDGE, Gent., or any other Justices of the Peace for this County, is requested to administer an Oath to the Appraisers for their true appraisment of the deced.'s Estate and also to MRS. MARY TARPLEY, the Admrx. with the Will annext, for her true discovery thereof. And it is further ordered that ye same p:sons appointed to appraise ye Estate, doe divide the same and make report thereof accordingly

Craig and David This is Thomas BALL who mar Sarah Bell and their dau. Catherine/Katherine Ball mar. Abraham Bledsoe. Henry Bell died in 1695 and in July/1698 Lancaster Co.arising out of another law suit that originated from the will of Henry Bell. The action of debt brought by Wm. Ball of Richard Ball, executor of Capt. Wm. Ball, deceased and Ffranciso Fforizal.next for Wm. ball to produce his fathers books, the business depending at this court between Thomas Ball and Wm. Wren plaintiff and Andrew Jackson and Wm. Lister, defendants/defemdamts cpmcermong a egacu govem tp Wm. Wren and Catherine Ball ye daughter of Thomas Ball.on and on I can fax you a list of ideas of where to look. My library doesn`t have but half of the info. Not sure if it would help but worth a try. The info you stated below on Richard Ball is new to me. Jim -----Original Message----- From: Craig Kilby <[email protected]> To: va-northern-neck <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Sep 12, 2011 7:03 pm Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] HAYDEN vs HILL Downing/Ball Connections Jim, I have never heard of a "Forgotten Thomas Ball" in relation to the Balls of Virginia. Eldest son Richard Ball was the subject of an article by that title some years ago. But Thomas is a new one for me. Can you provide some more detail here? Are we talking about BALL or BELL? Craig On Sep 12, 2011, at 7:15 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > Craig and David, while your looking for Balls and the gentleman from NJ.. might want to take a look at a Thomas Ball, the forgotten Ball. I can not believe someone does not to research that. Maybe another son of Wm. Ball? Notes for Richard Ball: Wm. Ball of Richard Ball for Wm. Ball to produce his fathers books. Law suit arising out of another that Lancaster originated from the will of Henry Bell. This line of Bells brobably came fron Norfolk just above Suffolk. Edmund Bell was the MP and built the flag ship for the London Trading Co. in Suffolk. Let me talk to the man in NJ. Jim > > > > > This is very interesting news concerning future research of the Ball family in > England. I thought the Ball family of the Northern Neck stemmed from Suffolk > in England. Is this not true or do we really have no idea? There was > supposedly a Ball/Dameron marriage in the early 1600's in Suffolk (see below), > which many have attributed as evidence of an earlier connection between the two > families. > > "And there is still another item that seems to connect Col. William Ball with > County Suffolk. In the parish register of St. Matthew’s church, Ipswich, > Suffolk, is the entry of the marriage, 17 November, 1605, of Thomas Ball and > Anne Dameron, widow." Source: Ball, Cuppage and Dameron of Northumberland > County, Virginia By Charles H. Browning -- Genealogies of Virginia Families From > the William and Mary College Quarterly Historical Magazine > > Thanks. > > David > > From: Craig Kilby <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 1:39 PM > Subject: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] HAYDEN vs HILL Downing/Ball Connections > > On a side note, a gentleman from New Jersey is much interested in all things > Ball. He has relatives in England and will be going there next July and is > donating one day of time at PRO in Kew [though we may send him to > Northamtonshire instead]. We (MBW) are diligently working with him to collect > anything and everything we know of written about Balls in England. It is a mass > of material but Peter Walne's 1959 article remains the best source for clues, > along with the first part of Heck's booklet written in the 1920s. Nancy > McBride's book, *Gordon Kinship* has a lengthy section on records in England > that she identified but did not examine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks, but I am still totally confused. There are only two Thomas Balls in my entire Ball database, and the first of them is Dr. Thomas K. Ball, born in 1775. There are a total of 13 Thomas Balls in Peggy Hill's index to the Ball Outline, but those are all later generations than the one I just cited. There is no surname "BELL" in Mrs. Hill's books. I do not know of any marriage of a Thomas Ball to a Sarah Bell in Lancaster County. What time frame are we talking about? What is the source for this? What has this got to do with finding origins of the Balls in England in the 1600s? This is the first I've heard of it. There was indead a Henry BELL who died in Lancaster County in 1695. He names, among others, Katherine BELL daughter of Thomas and Sarah BELL (no relationship stated.) I don't understand the last two sentences--they do not make sense. Can you please clarify what you are talking about? Craig On Sep 12, 2011, at 8:46 PM, DAVID BROWN wrote: > Craig, below is the info that Jim posted last week. Unfortunately, I don't have any information on this Thomas Ball either, but Jim is right in that this requires more follow-up. > > Thanks. > > David > > > [email protected] wrote: > Jim, do you think the rest would be interested? This will take someone with a better library than i have aces to and some time. It is a Thomas Ball who mar. Sarah Bell-d/o Henry Bell-d. 1695 Lancaster Co.. Their dau. Katherine Ball mar. Abraham Bledsoe, his first wife.This comes from a lawsuit in July 1698 ( after the death of Henry Bell . The action of debt brought by Wm. Ballof Richard Ball executor of Capt. Wm. Ball, deceased and FFranciso FForizal--next for---Wm. Ball to produce his fathers books, the business depending at Catherine Ball & Thomas Ball. so on &so on. > In the info i have he is called the forgotten Ball. I have a list of sources one could look but like i said, don`t have the material. Jim > > > > ________________________________ > From: Craig Kilby <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 6:56 PM > Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] HAYDEN vs HILL Downing/Ball Connections > > Jim, > > I have never heard of a "Forgotten Thomas Ball" in relation to the Balls of Virginia. Eldest son Richard Ball was the subject of an article by that title some years ago. But Thomas is a new one for me. Can you provide some more detail here? Are we talking about BALL or BELL? > > Craig > > On Sep 12, 2011, at 7:15 PM, [email protected] wrote: > >> >> Craig and David, while your looking for Balls and the gentleman from NJ.. might want to take a look at a Thomas Ball, the forgotten Ball. I can not believe someone does not to research that. Maybe another son of Wm. Ball? Notes for Richard Ball: Wm. Ball of Richard Ball for Wm. Ball to produce his fathers books. Law suit arising out of another that Lancaster originated from the will of Henry Bell. This line of Bells brobably came fron Norfolk just above Suffolk. Edmund Bell was the MP and built the flag ship for the London Trading Co. in Suffolk. Let me talk to the man in NJ. Jim >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Jim, I have never heard of a "Forgotten Thomas Ball" in relation to the Balls of Virginia. Eldest son Richard Ball was the subject of an article by that title some years ago. But Thomas is a new one for me. Can you provide some more detail here? Are we talking about BALL or BELL? Craig On Sep 12, 2011, at 7:15 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > Craig and David, while your looking for Balls and the gentleman from NJ.. might want to take a look at a Thomas Ball, the forgotten Ball. I can not believe someone does not to research that. Maybe another son of Wm. Ball? Notes for Richard Ball: Wm. Ball of Richard Ball for Wm. Ball to produce his fathers books. Law suit arising out of another that Lancaster originated from the will of Henry Bell. This line of Bells brobably came fron Norfolk just above Suffolk. Edmund Bell was the MP and built the flag ship for the London Trading Co. in Suffolk. Let me talk to the man in NJ. Jim > > > > > This is very interesting news concerning future research of the Ball family in > England. I thought the Ball family of the Northern Neck stemmed from Suffolk > in England. Is this not true or do we really have no idea? There was > supposedly a Ball/Dameron marriage in the early 1600's in Suffolk (see below), > which many have attributed as evidence of an earlier connection between the two > families. > > "And there is still another item that seems to connect Col. William Ball with > County Suffolk. In the parish register of St. Matthew’s church, Ipswich, > Suffolk, is the entry of the marriage, 17 November, 1605, of Thomas Ball and > Anne Dameron, widow." Source: Ball, Cuppage and Dameron of Northumberland > County, Virginia By Charles H. Browning -- Genealogies of Virginia Families From > the William and Mary College Quarterly Historical Magazine > > Thanks. > > David > > From: Craig Kilby <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 1:39 PM > Subject: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] HAYDEN vs HILL Downing/Ball Connections > > On a side note, a gentleman from New Jersey is much interested in all things > Ball. He has relatives in England and will be going there next July and is > donating one day of time at PRO in Kew [though we may send him to > Northamtonshire instead]. We (MBW) are diligently working with him to collect > anything and everything we know of written about Balls in England. It is a mass > of material but Peter Walne's 1959 article remains the best source for clues, > along with the first part of Heck's booklet written in the 1920s. Nancy > McBride's book, *Gordon Kinship* has a lengthy section on records in England > that she identified but did not examine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Craig, This much older and different Thomas Ball is new for me too and I don't really have much of anything on him other than what Jim previously shared.   However, I did locate a GenForum posting (see link below) which hopefully adds more clarity to the question: http://genforum.genealogy.com/ball/messages/6352.html It seems that additional examination of the original documents alluded in this GenForum message is necessary to determine if the name really is, in fact, Ball (instead of Bell). Thanks. David ________________________________ From: Craig Kilby <[email protected]> To: DAVID BROWN <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 8:31 PM Subject: Thomas Ball? Thanks, but I am still totally confused. There are only two Thomas Balls in my entire Ball database, and the first of them is Dr. Thomas K. Ball, born in 1775. There are a total of 13 Thomas Balls in Peggy Hill's index to the Ball Outline, but those are all later generations than the one I just cited. There is no surname "BELL" in Mrs. Hill's books. I do not know of any marriage of a Thomas Ball to a Sarah Bell in Lancaster County. What time frame are we talking about? What is the source for this? What has this got to do with finding origins of the Balls in England in the 1600s? This is the first I've heard of it. There was indead a Henry BELL who died in Lancaster County in 1695. He names, among others, Katherine BELL daughter of Thomas and Sarah BELL (no relationship stated.) I don't understand the last two sentences--they do not make sense. Can you please clarify what you are talking about? Craig On Sep 12, 2011, at 8:46 PM, DAVID BROWN wrote: > Craig, below is the info that Jim posted last week.  Unfortunately, I don't have any information on this Thomas Ball either, but Jim is right in that this requires more follow-up. > > Thanks. > > David > > > [email protected] wrote: > Jim, do you think the rest would be interested? This will take someone with a better library than i have aces to and some time. It is a Thomas Ball who mar. Sarah Bell-d/o Henry Bell-d. 1695 Lancaster Co.. Their dau. Katherine Ball mar. Abraham Bledsoe, his first wife.This comes from a lawsuit in July 1698 ( after the death of Henry Bell . The action of debt brought by Wm. Ballof Richard Ball executor of Capt. Wm. Ball, deceased  and FFranciso FForizal--next for---Wm. Ball to produce his fathers books, the business depending at Catherine Ball & Thomas Ball. so on &so on. > In the info i have he is called the forgotten Ball. I have a list of sources one could look but like i said, don`t have the material.  Jim > > > > ________________________________ > From: Craig Kilby <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 6:56 PM > Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] HAYDEN vs HILL Downing/Ball Connections > > Jim, > > I have never heard of a "Forgotten Thomas Ball" in relation to the Balls of Virginia. Eldest son Richard Ball was the subject of an article by that title some years ago. But Thomas is a new one for me. Can you provide some more detail here?  Are we talking about BALL or BELL? > > Craig > > On Sep 12, 2011, at 7:15 PM, [email protected] wrote: > >> >> Craig and David, while your looking for Balls and the gentleman from NJ.. might want to take a look at a Thomas Ball, the forgotten Ball. I can not believe someone does not to research that. Maybe another son of Wm. Ball? Notes for Richard Ball: Wm. Ball of Richard Ball for Wm. Ball to produce his fathers books. Law suit arising out of another that Lancaster originated from the will of Henry Bell. This line of Bells brobably came fron Norfolk just above Suffolk. Edmund Bell was the MP and built the flag ship for the London Trading Co. in Suffolk. Let me talk to the man in NJ.    Jim >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Craig and David, while your looking for Balls and the gentleman from NJ.. might want to take a look at a Thomas Ball, the forgotten Ball. I can not believe someone does not to research that. Maybe another son of Wm. Ball? Notes for Richard Ball: Wm. Ball of Richard Ball for Wm. Ball to produce his fathers books. Law suit arising out of another that Lancaster originated from the will of Henry Bell. This line of Bells brobably came fron Norfolk just above Suffolk. Edmund Bell was the MP and built the flag ship for the London Trading Co. in Suffolk. Let me talk to the man in NJ. Jim This is very interesting news concerning future research of the Ball family in England. I thought the Ball family of the Northern Neck stemmed from Suffolk in England. Is this not true or do we really have no idea? There was supposedly a Ball/Dameron marriage in the early 1600's in Suffolk (see below), which many have attributed as evidence of an earlier connection between the two families. "And there is still another item that seems to connect Col. William Ball with County Suffolk. In the parish register of St. Matthew’s church, Ipswich, Suffolk, is the entry of the marriage, 17 November, 1605, of Thomas Ball and Anne Dameron, widow." Source: Ball, Cuppage and Dameron of Northumberland County, Virginia By Charles H. Browning -- Genealogies of Virginia Families From the William and Mary College Quarterly Historical Magazine Thanks. David From: Craig Kilby <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 1:39 PM Subject: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] HAYDEN vs HILL Downing/Ball Connections On a side note, a gentleman from New Jersey is much interested in all things Ball. He has relatives in England and will be going there next July and is donating one day of time at PRO in Kew [though we may send him to Northamtonshire instead]. We (MBW) are diligently working with him to collect anything and everything we know of written about Balls in England. It is a mass of material but Peter Walne's 1959 article remains the best source for clues, along with the first part of Heck's booklet written in the 1920s. Nancy McBride's book, *Gordon Kinship* has a lengthy section on records in England that she identified but did not examine.

Thanks Craig. Also, I apologize as my query went through twice (I believe the below query was my first attempt). David ------Original Message------ From: Craig Kilby To: DAVID BROWN To: [email protected] Subject: TRAVERS Downman Sent: Sep 12, 2011 12:56 PM David, I believe the name is TRAVERS, not TRAVERSE, though it may sometimes be transcribed that way. Craig On Sep 11, 2011, at 9:15 PM, DAVID BROWN wrote: > Thanks Kathleen for the information on the Downman family. I understand that William Downman & Ann Ball (whom you mentioned in your post below) are the parents of Traverse Downman who married Grace Ball, daughter of George Ball & Grace Haynie. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Craig, below is the info that Jim posted last week.   Unfortunately, I don't have any information on this Thomas Ball either, but Jim is right in that this requires more follow-up. Thanks. David [email protected] wrote: Jim, do you think the rest would be interested? This will take someone with a better library than i have aces to and some time. It is a Thomas Ball who mar. Sarah Bell-d/o Henry Bell-d. 1695 Lancaster Co.. Their dau. Katherine Ball mar. Abraham Bledsoe, his first wife.This comes from a lawsuit in July 1698 ( after the death of Henry Bell . The action of debt brought by Wm. Ballof Richard Ball executor of Capt. Wm. Ball, deceased  and FFranciso FForizal--next for---Wm. Ball to produce his fathers books, the business depending at Catherine Ball & Thomas Ball. so on &so on.  In the info i have he is called the forgotten Ball. I have a list of sources one could look but like i said, don`t have the material.  Jim ________________________________ From: Craig Kilby <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] HAYDEN vs HILL Downing/Ball Connections Jim, I have never heard of a "Forgotten Thomas Ball" in relation to the Balls of Virginia. Eldest son Richard Ball was the subject of an article by that title some years ago. But Thomas is a new one for me. Can you provide some more detail here?  Are we talking about BALL or BELL? Craig On Sep 12, 2011, at 7:15 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > Craig and David, while your looking for Balls and the gentleman from NJ.. might want to take a look at a Thomas Ball, the forgotten Ball. I can not believe someone does not to research that. Maybe another son of Wm. Ball? Notes for Richard Ball: Wm. Ball of Richard Ball for Wm. Ball to produce his fathers books. Law suit arising out of another that Lancaster originated from the will of Henry Bell. This line of Bells brobably came fron Norfolk just above Suffolk. Edmund Bell was the MP and built the flag ship for the London Trading Co. in Suffolk. Let me talk to the man in NJ.    Jim >