Ed, Most excellent! I'm resending it back to the list for the simple reason it should be archived on the subject line of Kinsale, and not "Jones" for future reference. I have made a gross error in two articles I have written and published about the Journal of John Fontaine, who arrived at Kinsale in 1714. I said in both that while the port was not named Kinsale at the time he arrived, and that the enabling legislation creating it.....I now see the error of my ways. I did not find it in Hening's Statutes. But failed to look at the supplements to it. Which reminds, another very useful link to save to favorite places is the on-line and searchable Hening's Statutes At Large. Keep in mind this does not include Shepherd's Supplement which of laws found later in London that fill in a lot of blanks. I don't know if those are on-line or not. Here is the link to Hening's Statutes At Large (MOST USEFUL!) http://vagenweb.org/hening/ Many thanks, and especially for clarifying the role of Dr. William Flood in this affair. Craig Begin forwarded message: > From: Edward White <[email protected]> > Date: September 26, 2011 5:01:10 PM EDT > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Jones > Reply-To: [email protected] > > The name Kinsale: > > *LAWS OF VIRGINIA*, OCTOBER 1705.---4th ANNE. > p. 415 Towns to be established > Yohocomoco upon the land of Richard Tidwell in Westmoreland. > > p. 417 . . . > That at Yohocomoco to be called Kingsale, and to have Tuesday and > Satturday in each week for market days, and the nineteenth day of October > and four following days, exclusive of Sundays, annually their fair. > > The town was not established, and the act was repealed, but the name stuck. > > Westmoreland WD 15-79, 4/14/1770 John and Elizabeth Graham to WILLIAM > FLOOD. Deed recites that Major William TAITE who was married to Graham’s > grandmother (Passed to Graham by will of Taite), agreed in his life to > agreed to sell to Flood 200 acres”commonly known by the name of “KINSALE”. > > Name comes from Gaelic supposedly, leaning head of water. It is said that > Samuel Bonum used it near his land on Rotank Creek. Also may have been used > in Southern MD. > > I have a deed somewhere referring to Kingsale. The other day I ran across a > slave by that name.

Janean, What you describe below is EXACTLY why a group effort will be immensely helpful. Jones? Are you kidding? Yes, they can be sorted out. But this way, we only have to go through this discussion ONCE, and cure your "dangling Balls" problem. Jim Bartlett and I are working on it as we speak. Craig On Sep 26, 2011, at 2:28 PM, Janean Ray wrote: > I would like to address two things Craig to this email > > (1) I have several JONES in connection with my lines. Sarah Ball & Mr. > Jones, Ann Keen Jones and Rowland Lawson, Humphrey Jones & Elizabeth (father > of Lodswick Jones h/o Lucy Tarpley) Dr. William M. Jones & Elizabeth Sophia > Chinn and daug. Willimina Jones. So I'm curious about which Rawleigh > Downman you're talking about. > > (2) As far as "placing people" I am trying to do this with all the BALL > individuals we were talking about the other day...... I have them dangling > right now..... I have connected and unconnected them to families but have > not deleted them...... I'm trying to match them with the proper people and > need someone to help me. Maybe you can answer me off line and help me fix > what I have mixed up. > > Thanks, > > Janean > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Craig Kilby > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:17 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] We have a golden opportunity to > buildalastinglegacy for Northern Neck Families > > Jim, > > Instead of multiple and different trees, I'd rather we have JUST ONE to > build upon. As I go through this BALL stuff and start adding to it, I am > amazed at how quickly it grows and overlaps and branches out. I was > gobsmacked the other day when I actually connected Thomas Jefferson--yes, > THE Thomas Jefferson--to the Ball tree. It came about due to some research I > was doing on Dr Walter Jones of Northumberland County, a close friend of > Jeffersons. They had gone to William & Mary College together. Jone's > roommate was (can't think of first name) SKELTON, who was the first husband > of Martha Jefferson. Skelton's sister married a brother of Dr. Jones. Jones > had already been connected to the tree because his daughter Elizabeth > married (2) Rawleigh Downman, etc..... (I intend to write more about this > soon. It also carries into the origins of Kinsale, Westmoreland County. I > did not know it was Dr. William Flood, whose daughter Alice was the wife of > Dr. Walter Jones who gave the place! > its name...Ed, any ideas on that?) > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The name Kinsale: *LAWS OF VIRGINIA*, OCTOBER 1705.---4th ANNE. p. 415 Towns to be established Yohocomoco upon the land of Richard Tidwell in Westmoreland. p. 417 . . . That at Yohocomoco to be called Kingsale, and to have Tuesday and Satturday in each week for market days, and the nineteenth day of October and four following days, exclusive of Sundays, annually their fair. The town was not established, and the act was repealed, but the name stuck. Westmoreland WD 15-79, 4/14/1770 John and Elizabeth Graham to WILLIAM FLOOD. Deed recites that Major William TAITE who was married to Graham’s grandmother (Passed to Graham by will of Taite), agreed in his life to agreed to sell to Flood 200 acres”commonly known by the name of “KINSALE”. Name comes from Gaelic supposedly, leaning head of water. It is said that Samuel Bonum used it near his land on Rotank Creek. Also may have been used in Southern MD. I have a deed somewhere referring to Kingsale. The other day I ran across a slave by that name. On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Janean Ray <[email protected]> wrote: > I would like to address two things Craig to this email > > (1) I have several JONES in connection with my lines. Sarah Ball & Mr. > Jones, Ann Keen Jones and Rowland Lawson, Humphrey Jones & Elizabeth > (father > of Lodswick Jones h/o Lucy Tarpley) Dr. William M. Jones & Elizabeth Sophia > Chinn and daug. Willimina Jones. So I'm curious about which Rawleigh > Downman you're talking about. > > (2) As far as "placing people" I am trying to do this with all the BALL > individuals we were talking about the other day...... I have them dangling > right now..... I have connected and unconnected them to families but have > not deleted them...... I'm trying to match them with the proper people and > need someone to help me. Maybe you can answer me off line and help me fix > what I have mixed up. > > Thanks, > > Janean > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Craig Kilby > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:17 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] We have a golden opportunity to > buildalastinglegacy for Northern Neck Families > > Jim, > > Instead of multiple and different trees, I'd rather we have JUST ONE to > build upon. As I go through this BALL stuff and start adding to it, I am > amazed at how quickly it grows and overlaps and branches out. I was > gobsmacked the other day when I actually connected Thomas Jefferson--yes, > THE Thomas Jefferson--to the Ball tree. It came about due to some research > I > was doing on Dr Walter Jones of Northumberland County, a close friend of > Jeffersons. They had gone to William & Mary College together. Jone's > roommate was (can't think of first name) SKELTON, who was the first husband > of Martha Jefferson. Skelton's sister married a brother of Dr. Jones. > Jones > had already been connected to the tree because his daughter Elizabeth > married (2) Rawleigh Downman, etc..... (I intend to write more about this > soon. It also carries into the origins of Kinsale, Westmoreland County. I > did not know it was Dr. William Flood, whose daughter Alice was the wife of > Dr. Walter Jones who gave the place! > its name...Ed, any ideas on that?) > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Yea thought so..... Little steep..... But I'd rather put that kind of money towards Ancestry first. Good savings... But one has to pick their battles. Thanks for getting me the info. Janean -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim Bartlett Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 4:08 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Big DNA Sale now through midnight Tuesday I was just explaining Family Finder DNA testing on this list, and a new email came in: Big sale going on now at [1]www.familytreedna.com For new customers on Y-DNA 12, mtDNA, Y-DNA 37 ; Family Finder; mtDNA Full Sequence; and several combinations. Family Finder is about 2/3 regular price during this sale, and is also offered as add-on for existing customers - a good chance to get this great test. You can see more about this sale on the FamilyTreeDNA Facebook page, which just hit 15,000 Likes. Jim Bartlett References 1. http://www.familytreedna.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This was a very clear and consise explaination.... Very good! Even I could understand this. LOL Now the next question is cost which I haven't found a clear answer yet on that.... Is there a specific website for this Family Finder? I'm seeing it listed within many various DNA testing sites etc. But so far it appears cost prohibitive. Anyway, my connection from Rowland LAWSON and Lettice WALE is: Daughter: Joanna LAWSON and Fortunatus SYDNOR m. 1670 Son: Anthony SYDNOR and Elizabeth DEW m. 1710 Daughter: Elizabeth SYDNOR and Travers TARPLEY m. 1737 Daughter: Frances TARPLEY and Rawleigh CHINN m. 1775 Daughter: Elizabeth CHINN and John WILSON m. 1796 >From there they leave Loudoun Co. Virginia go into White Co. IL and down to me. I had you ancestor Rowland II and wife Ann Keen Jones ONLY with one child so far... Rowland III b. 1672 and wife Jean Glascock b. 10 July 1673 with 7 children: Rowland IV, John (Mary Dew) Thomas, Sarah, Joanna, Anthony and Elizabeth (Thomas Barber) Generally when I find someone like yourself that I connect to, I add their line of descent thereby giving me another cousin. I would like to participate in the testing especially considering I've proven my Mayflower lines and that could be helpful to people but only if the costs are reasonable but I am seeing prices all over the spectrum. Janean I descend from Roland LAWSON and Lettice WALE three ways: Rowland LAWSON II c1644 through son Henry b c1678 m c1697 Mary SALLARD, through dau Sarah m 1720 Wm HATHAWAY John LAWSON b c1657 m 1680 Mary KILBEE, through son Epaphroditus b 1684 m 1710 Elizabeth DYMER, through dau Judith b 1710 m 1730 Francis TIMBERLAKE Letitiia m William HATHAWAY b 1636: grandfather of Wm above. Perhaps you and I both got large enough segments of the same DNA from these folks that came all the way down to us, that we would show up as a FF DNA match! Sign up for the Family Finder DNA test!

Jim is bang-on with this. I have sent him the Ball tree that I have compiled. I call it the "Ball Tree" because it started with William-1 Ball. It now has about 1500 people in it. The more I think about it, it is probably better to start with a smaller tree that may have its share of problems but nothing compared to a tree with 84,000 people in it. With 1500 people, there is probably enough there for others to be able to find a limb or even a twig to glob on to. I have sent two versions of a gedcom to Jim from my Reunion Program for him to review which ones will import to FTM the best. One is sttandard Gedcom format and the other is a delineated text file. Both were prepared for a Windows platform. Once Jim Bartlett and I have chewed this over, we may be ready to launch. I think even the most skeptical among us will realize its benefits not only for us, but for those who will stand upon our shoulders when we have all shed this mortal coil. Craig P.S. Please realize, for the Ball project I am working on now, this will not effect any of my data. However if and when it goes on line, I will need to make any changes I make to my own database to that tree as well. A small price to pay. On Sep 26, 2011, at 2:05 PM, Jim Bartlett wrote: > > I agree with you that sources such as FTM, WC, A.com, "my own history", a > County History, "because I say so", etc. are pretty much worthless - I say > pretty much worthless because sometimes I've found a stated relationship, > for which I've been searching for years, and upon further investigation it > proves to be correct and there are many records to back it up. > > With the tools Ancestry has now, it's fairly easy to find and attach real > records, and/or links to them, to individuals. > > I have done a lot with the census records. As Admin for the BARTLETT-DNA > Project, I have extracted BARTLETTs from every census 1790-1880 for VA, WV, > MD, DC, NC, SC, GA, TN, KY, AL and AR, and have partials for many other > states. When you look at this body of evidence (and I know it's strengths > and weeknesses) you can learn a lot about the many BARTLETT lines - it took > me about 6 months to do each state and arrange it into families (using other > records, too), so that now I'm able to help most newbies with their tree. > I've filled in the VA BARTLETTs with details from the annual Personal > Property Tax Lists (PPTL; 1782 - 1850) - again a lot of microfilms to > scroll, but once done, it's done, and the body of knowledge is very > instructive in putting together family lines. My next big project will be > committing this all to Ancestry (then making a GEDcom and uploading it to > WorldConnect). Folks can use it, or not, as they wish. It's my legacy of > researching since 1974... > > My point in the above is that Ancestry, now makes it very easy to link the > census records to your tree pages; the same with many other digital copies > and/or links of original, and transcribed, records - this is how I'm trying > to document my trees on Ancestry. Adding pictures is also easy. > > For a NN Tree we should strive to populate each page (like a family group > sheet) with links to real records or add pdf copies of records we have. This > will be the real power of the NN Tree - documentation. Even many "copiers" > will accept a documented tree over an undocumented one. It's almost a > responsibility of serious genealogists to put up documented trees and try to > get the record straight - to take the offensive! > > By working on this as a group, we can draw on the research of many, and > build an impressively documented tree - I've seen in the email traffic, the > kind of info this list holds - it's like gold - and a NN Tree could capture > it for all. > > Coupled with serious peer review on this message list and FB, the NN Tree > could be an outstanding model. > > Jim Bartlett > > On 09/26/11, Edward White<[email protected]> wrote: > You can view World Connect for free. If you are lucky and patient, you may > well find decent information with what we would call sources, or better yet > a confession that the author is not sure of a certain listing. When I see a > "tree" with thousands of names, I run. > I once sent them a message asking why they cannot create better categories > of what they call "sources". At present they list FTM files, LDS and > whatever as a "source". Of course I received no answer. They are in > business to achieve the greatest number of hits. That is why the ads, which > take forever to load, are there. > It is dreary, but then so are a lot of "sources" printed in hardcover for > family glorification. > This is why historians, often unfairly, view genealogists as poor > stepchildren to be lodged in the scullery. > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Janean Ray <[1][email protected]> wrote: >> I totally agree with you on being part of the solution and taking the >> offense..... However.. What I'm saying is.. People take what is on line as >> gospel. I think it's a step in the right direction. I had Ancestry for a >> few years for research....... I was lucky to have gotten it at a greatly >> reduced rate due to an error by the guy signing me up.... Unfortunately I >> had to let my subscription go. I hear a lot of people complaining about >> what happens to their stuff once its uploaded.... So that scares me. I >> don't know enough about it. But my question is...... If invited.... Do you >> have be subscribed to veiw it? I don't think so as I believe someone once >> sent me an invite but there again..... With anyone having the ability to >> upload their stuff (people LOVE seeing themselves online) its still a >> matter >> of proving it yourself. I am totally all for correct information getting >> out >> there... What I'm saying is.... Just on this list alone..... There has > been >> bickering over whose source is a better one..... So I'm just saying..... > In >> theory it sounds like a great plan.... But some people will STILL use the >> source information that works for them so be prepared that one person > can't >> change the world.... But one person can possibly make a difference. Its >> worth a try....because right now..... Doing something positive is better >> than letting the weeds keep growing. I'm on board.... Just playing devil's >> advocate >> >> >> Janean Ray >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: va-n[2][email protected] >> [[3]mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim > Bartlett >> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 5:06 PM >> To: [4][email protected] >> Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] We have a golden opportunity tobuild >> alastinglegacy for Northern Neck Families. >> >> >> Janean, >> >> Some of what you point out may be true, but the other side of the coin is >> that a lot of good research is on Ancestry, AND it has a good suite of >> tools >> that are integrated with teh trees to let you find records and attach >> them >> to your trees; add pictures of people and/or tombstones, etc. and add in >> writen documents expaining what you've done and why. Of course there are >> some who just mine the info and have no idea if it's right or wrong. But >> we >> can't stop that. What we can do, is put up well documented info - in >> other >> words: rather than duck or hide from the issues, go on the offensive and >> post to the best of our ability. As a group, we would be open to peer >> review, and could correct (and document) the info, just as has been >> happening on this list. >> >> Let this group be part of the solution. >> >> >> Jim Bartlett >> >> On 09/23/11, Janean Ray<[5][email protected]> wrote: >> I'm a little suspicious of why anyone would want to upload their entire >> database to places like ancestry and say world connect.... Nothing is >> EVER >> fully proven and therefore subject to just continually passing along >> wrong >> information. I have had people take my information and upload it to World >> Connect and at this very minute my LIVING mother is listed on there. I >> have >> seen hoards of my information on there that someone got a hold of very >> early >> on in my research and put it on World Connect and its totally now wrong. >> Ancesty I've heard then OWNS your information and people have tried to >> remove it or make corrections and can't... I don't know the details >> because >> it didn't involve me but I've also seen people who "collect" names and >> families..... And don't care where they get the information. 20+ thousand >> people in a database seems a little suspicious to me. I've seen that on >> World Connect and I've gone into people's pages...... And somehow always >> seem to find my family attached to them. >> Janean >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VA-N[6][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VA-N[7][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VA-N[8][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > References > > 1. mailto:[email protected] > 2. mailto:[email protected] > 3. mailto:[email protected] > 4. mailto:[email protected] > 5. mailto:[email protected] > 6. mailto:[email protected] > 7. mailto:[email protected] > 8. mailto:[email protected] > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I was just explaining Family Finder DNA testing on this list, and a new email came in: Big sale going on now at [1]www.familytreedna.com For new customers on Y-DNA 12, mtDNA, Y-DNA 37 ; Family Finder; mtDNA Full Sequence; and several combinations. Family Finder is about 2/3 regular price during this sale, and is also offered as add-on for existing customers - a good chance to get this great test. You can see more about this sale on the FamilyTreeDNA Facebook page, which just hit 15,000 Likes. Jim Bartlett References 1. http://www.familytreedna.com/

To all, I would like to add without DNA the progress although very slow would not have been possible without this filter system to eliminate people who are not the correct DNA. Many instances of several different Butler lines marrying into another surname line. Also, sharing of information is something that many for whatever reason do not do. No one is out to disprove anothers information in my opinion, just to look for the sources and verify information. Not all the old writings people rely on are correct, and although they produce a guide, that is basically all it is. I share all I can find in the hopes of solving my own ancestry. Along the way I have been gratified personally for helping others find their family, even though I have not found my own connections. Billie Sutton Smith M-0125 Butler History site -----Original Message----- From: Jim Bartlett <[email protected]> To: va-northern-neck <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Sep 26, 2011 2:41 pm Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] DNA Janean Great questions all - if I don't give a satisfactory answer to some, ask again. I've been at this since 1974 (I worked for the Smithsonian 1978-80 and walked over to the Archives on lunch hours to scroll microfilms) - so I might be starting to geeze some - be gentle with me... You DO need male descendants to do Y-DNA testing - which is like a laser beam, looking back up the surname line and very effective for that line alone. Anyone (including you, Janean) can take the new Family Finder (FF) DNA test - this is NOT about the the all-male or all-female lines, it IS about the all-ancestor lines! Say you go back to the 7th generation, where you have 128 ancestors - you (Janean) have 1/128th of your DNA from each of those ancestors; 1/256th of each of your 8th generation ancestors, etc. - do you follow me so far? When you take the FF DNA test, they look at over 700,000 places across all of your DNA (vs 67 for Y-DNA or even 16,500 for a full mtDNA test). Computers analyze your results and compare it with everyone else's FF results in their database. The give you a list of names (WITH EMAILS) of everyone with a long string of DNA exactly like yours! The amount of matching DNA segments and their lengths determines if there is enough for them to declare you are almost certainly cousins, and for them to estimate whether you are probably 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th or "distant" cousins. If someone could tell you for almost certain, that a specific person on this list was your fourth cousin, wouldn't you want to compare ancestors with that person and determine your common ancestor? I sure would! And that's why I've corresponded with over 150 matches. Granted, it takes some work to show your ancestry to others and to slog through their trees for the one ancestral couple who is also yours. And, granted, some of your FF matches will be just starting out, or will come from a family in Finland with no known tie to America, or will be adopted and know nothing - but many have good trees and documentation and are eager to share with anyone who is probably their cousin. Your best bet to link with a Y-DNA participant is to correspond with the Admin of that list and ask the Admin to forward your request to the participant. About 2/3 of my project participants have allowed their kit number and name to be made public and I can respond to an outsider's query directly with a copy to the participant and link them together. Otherwise I can only forward the query to the participant, but often I know all about his ancestral line and can answer any question about it. That's what Admins should be able to do. I descend from Roland LAWSON and Lettice WALE three ways: Rowland LAWSON II c1644 through son Henry b c1678 m c1697 Mary SALLARD, through dau Sarah m 1720 Wm HATHAWAY John LAWSON b c1657 m 1680 Mary KILBEE, through son Epaphroditus b 1684 m 1710 Elizabeth DYMER, through dau Judith b 1710 m 1730 Francis TIMBERLAKE Letitiia m William HATHAWAY b 1636: grandfather of Wm above. Perhaps you and I both got large enough segments of the same DNA from these folks that came all the way down to us, that we would show up as a FF DNA match! Sign up for the Family Finder DNA test! Jim Bartlett On 09/26/11, Janean Ray<[email protected]> wrote: OK Jim, here's your chance to "esplain to Lucy" about DNA...lol First of all I have no male descendants to test ANY of my family lines except for my brother from one particular line because it comes down from all men through my father's father. All the rest of my lines go to my father then my grandmother back to Virginia and all the CHINN, BALL, TRAVERS ETC. ETC. lines and my understanding is you can't use women. Anyway..... IF I find someone has proven their line through DNA..... And I KNOW for certain that is my line.... How can I get hooked up with that person? Everyone I have ever spoken to or websites I've been directed to I get a bunch of batch numbers that mean absolutely nothing to me. So for instance..... Below: You mention Roland/Rowland Lawson...... Who I'm assuming is the spouse to Letitia Wales and son to John Lawson MY NOTES: John Lawson b. 1575, of "Brough Hall", England. He was son of Sir Ralph Lawson & Elizabeth Brough. He married Sarah Rowland on 1606, Brough hall, Catterick, Yorkshire, England. She was b. 1582, England. She was dau. of Richard Rowland Esq. & Joyce Lyttell. They also said Sarah's father was Thomas Rowland (most likely be Richard). They had four children. One of their son: Rowland Lawson Sr. b. 1608/17, England, came to America 1638 - Greer - early Virginia Immigrants. He was the son of John Lawson & Sarah Rowland. He married Lettice "Letitia" Wales on bef 1629 or bef 1636, Lancaster County, Virginia, d. aft 1661, Lancaster County, Virginia. She was dau. of George Wales & Lewys (no last name). George Wales first settle in Maryland, d. Mar 1670/71, Lancaster County, Virginia. Lewys (no last name) b. bet 1610-11, England, d. aft Aug 1689. Rowland Lawson & Lettice "Letitia" Wales had eight children. NOW....... Roland was my 9th great grandfather. Allegedly! SO if this DNA has say been proven to YOU.... And you are some person I've never met... On a Lawson DNA website how do people like me get involved??? Get connected to the person who belongs to this line? I have found in the little bit I've looked into - these people are not very forthcoming with information. Its like THEY shelled out the money to get tested and don't want to share their information. Is that just the nature of the beast and not everyone is like that? What are your thoughts? And what is Eppa; Henry mean? I don't mean to sound ignorant but there are a lot of areas of genealogy I have yet to explore... Some things come natural to some and not so much to others. I learn by asking questions because with adult A.D.D. I often find it difficult to try and read and comprehend some of this stuff so I do a lot of asking questions and just pushing buttons to see where it gets me. LOL I have a hard enough time just trying to digest all the verbiage posted on here sometimes. LAWSON, Roland b 1617 England; to VA 1633; four generations Lancaster Co, VA thru 1700s: Eppa; Henry Thanks, Janean ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VA-N[1][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. mailto:[email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I would like to address two things Craig to this email (1) I have several JONES in connection with my lines. Sarah Ball & Mr. Jones, Ann Keen Jones and Rowland Lawson, Humphrey Jones & Elizabeth (father of Lodswick Jones h/o Lucy Tarpley) Dr. William M. Jones & Elizabeth Sophia Chinn and daug. Willimina Jones. So I'm curious about which Rawleigh Downman you're talking about. (2) As far as "placing people" I am trying to do this with all the BALL individuals we were talking about the other day...... I have them dangling right now..... I have connected and unconnected them to families but have not deleted them...... I'm trying to match them with the proper people and need someone to help me. Maybe you can answer me off line and help me fix what I have mixed up. Thanks, Janean -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Craig Kilby Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 11:17 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] We have a golden opportunity to buildalastinglegacy for Northern Neck Families Jim, Instead of multiple and different trees, I'd rather we have JUST ONE to build upon. As I go through this BALL stuff and start adding to it, I am amazed at how quickly it grows and overlaps and branches out. I was gobsmacked the other day when I actually connected Thomas Jefferson--yes, THE Thomas Jefferson--to the Ball tree. It came about due to some research I was doing on Dr Walter Jones of Northumberland County, a close friend of Jeffersons. They had gone to William & Mary College together. Jone's roommate was (can't think of first name) SKELTON, who was the first husband of Martha Jefferson. Skelton's sister married a brother of Dr. Jones. Jones had already been connected to the tree because his daughter Elizabeth married (2) Rawleigh Downman, etc..... (I intend to write more about this soon. It also carries into the origins of Kinsale, Westmoreland County. I did not know it was Dr. William Flood, whose daughter Alice was the wife of Dr. Walter Jones who gave the place! its name...Ed, any ideas on that?) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ed You are right, only the eldest son has the entailed estate in this case. The other sons have merely life estates, and at their death to the eldest male heir of the father. I agree that OFTEN the laws of entail and primogeniture were ignored and/or forgotten. The same goes for "leases for lives." But I have studied one case in great detail for land in Middlesex County. This case involved Thomas Kidd who died in, oh say 1686 leaving only two sons. To the eldest son Thomas he left one of his patents "to him and his heirs forever." To the younger son William he left the other patent. Period. No language of "to him and his heirs forever." Well, time goes on, descendants of William sell parts of it, keep others. Thomas-2 Kidd goes on to have Thomas-3 and Thomas-3 has Thomas-4. Suddenly, out of nowhere a long long time later, Thomas-4, supposedly as a resident of Edgecombe County, North Carolina, gives one William Upshaw Davis a Power of Attorney to initiate actions to clear his titles. This was, as you suggest, done at the State Court level. (I say he was supposedly of Edgecombe County, NC because other than this POA he left nay shred of evidence of his ever being there) Davis proceeds to this record this court order in Essex County (not in Middlesex where the land was), and proceeds to have it all surveyed and he promptly resells it back to the very same people who THOUGHT they already owned it. And these were not deeds of gifts! Oh, those clever lawyers. I've sent this link before but now is a good time to send it again. It is called Bob's Genealogy Cabinet and does a very good job of explaining all sorts of colonial laws, including one pertaining to land and inheritance in general. I disagree with a few things he says (in particular that if you see a woman signing as a witness to a will or a deed it means she was single, and this is patently NOT TRUE.) Here is the link: http://www.genfiles.com/ I strongly recommend if you have not saved this site to favorite places, you do so now. Craig On Sep 26, 2011, at 11:13 AM, Edward White wrote: > would differ on whether an estate tail would be created. "I give my real > estate to A" at common law gives A a life estate. The remainder would then > pass to the heirs of A. probably intestate and thus winding up as you said > in the eldest. A true estate in tail is: I give Blackacre to my son John > and the heirs male of his body. Thus you have both words of purchase and > words of limitation.

When I first started genealogy I wanted to know about my father's parentage especially HIS father.... As we knew very little. I typed in my search browser GENEALOGY and found Rootsweb. From there I found World Connect. WHAT a goldmine (I thought). Yes World Connect is good to get you started.... And good for a basis to connect to people but that's where it ends. You might, as you say, find decent information if you try hard enough and have patience. Fortunately for me I found some AMAZING people and from them I found USGENWEB and all their state and county sites as well as message boards and these lists. Rootsweb is a must for a beginner because everything is there to get you started. I can't imagine how hard this was for our predecessors before computers. Facebook will now be another wonderful tool I think. Janean -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Edward White Sent: Monday, September 26, 2011 11:25 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] We have a golden opportunity tobuild alastinglegacy for Northern Neck Families. You can view World Connect for free. If you are lucky and patient, you may well find decent information with what we would call sources, or better yet a confession that the author is not sure of a certain listing. When I see a "tree" with thousands of names, I run. I once sent them a message asking why they cannot create better categories of what they call "sources". At present they list FTM files, LDS and whatever as a "source". Of course I received no answer. They are in business to achieve the greatest number of hits. That is why the ads, which take forever to load, are there. It is dreary, but then so are a lot of "sources" printed in hardcover for family glorification. This is why historians, often unfairly, view genealogists as poor stepchildren to be lodged in the scullery. On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Janean Ray <[email protected]> wrote: > I totally agree with you on being part of the solution and taking the > offense..... However.. What I'm saying is.. People take what is on > line as gospel. I think it's a step in the right direction. I had > Ancestry for a few years for research....... I was lucky to have > gotten it at a greatly reduced rate due to an error by the guy signing > me up.... Unfortunately I had to let my subscription go. I hear a lot > of people complaining about what happens to their stuff once its > uploaded.... So that scares me. I don't know enough about it. But my > question is...... If invited.... Do you have be subscribed to veiw it? > I don't think so as I believe someone once sent me an invite but there > again..... With anyone having the ability to upload their stuff > (people LOVE seeing themselves online) its still a matter of proving > it yourself. I am totally all for correct information getting out > there... What I'm saying is.... Just on this list alone..... There has > been bickering over whose source is a better one..... So I'm just > saying..... In theory it sounds like a great plan.... But some people > will STILL use the source information that works for them so be > prepared that one person can't change the world.... But one person can > possibly make a difference. Its worth a try....because right now..... > Doing something positive is better than letting the weeds keep > growing. I'm on board.... Just playing devil's advocate > > > Janean Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim > Bartlett > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 5:06 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] We have a golden opportunity tobuild > alastinglegacy for Northern Neck Families. > > > Janean, > > Some of what you point out may be true, but the other side of the coin is > that a lot of good research is on Ancestry, AND it has a good suite > of tools > that are integrated with teh trees to let you find records and > attach them > to your trees; add pictures of people and/or tombstones, etc. and add in > writen documents expaining what you've done and why. Of course there are > some who just mine the info and have no idea if it's right or wrong. > But we > can't stop that. What we can do, is put up well documented info - in > other > words: rather than duck or hide from the issues, go on the offensive and > post to the best of our ability. As a group, we would be open to peer > review, and could correct (and document) the info, just as has been > happening on this list. > > Let this group be part of the solution. > > > Jim Bartlett > > On 09/23/11, Janean Ray<[email protected]> wrote: > I'm a little suspicious of why anyone would want to upload their entire > database to places like ancestry and say world connect.... Nothing > is EVER > fully proven and therefore subject to just continually passing along > wrong > information. I have had people take my information and upload it to World > Connect and at this very minute my LIVING mother is listed on there. > I have > seen hoards of my information on there that someone got a hold of > very early > on in my research and put it on World Connect and its totally now wrong. > Ancesty I've heard then OWNS your information and people have tried to > remove it or make corrections and can't... I don't know the details > because > it didn't involve me but I've also seen people who "collect" names and > families..... And don't care where they get the information. 20+ thousand > people in a database seems a little suspicious to me. I've seen that on > World Connect and I've gone into people's pages...... And somehow always > seem to find my family attached to them. > Janean > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Janean Great questions all - if I don't give a satisfactory answer to some, ask again. I've been at this since 1974 (I worked for the Smithsonian 1978-80 and walked over to the Archives on lunch hours to scroll microfilms) - so I might be starting to geeze some - be gentle with me... You DO need male descendants to do Y-DNA testing - which is like a laser beam, looking back up the surname line and very effective for that line alone. Anyone (including you, Janean) can take the new Family Finder (FF) DNA test - this is NOT about the the all-male or all-female lines, it IS about the all-ancestor lines! Say you go back to the 7th generation, where you have 128 ancestors - you (Janean) have 1/128th of your DNA from each of those ancestors; 1/256th of each of your 8th generation ancestors, etc. - do you follow me so far? When you take the FF DNA test, they look at over 700,000 places across all of your DNA (vs 67 for Y-DNA or even 16,500 for a full mtDNA test). Computers analyze your results and compare it with everyone else's FF results in their database. The give you a list of names (WITH EMAILS) of everyone with a long string of DNA exactly like yours! The amount of matching DNA segments and their lengths determines if there is enough for them to declare you are almost certainly cousins, and for them to estimate whether you are probably 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th or "distant" cousins. If someone could tell you for almost certain, that a specific person on this list was your fourth cousin, wouldn't you want to compare ancestors with that person and determine your common ancestor? I sure would! And that's why I've corresponded with over 150 matches. Granted, it takes some work to show your ancestry to others and to slog through their trees for the one ancestral couple who is also yours. And, granted, some of your FF matches will be just starting out, or will come from a family in Finland with no known tie to America, or will be adopted and know nothing - but many have good trees and documentation and are eager to share with anyone who is probably their cousin. Your best bet to link with a Y-DNA participant is to correspond with the Admin of that list and ask the Admin to forward your request to the participant. About 2/3 of my project participants have allowed their kit number and name to be made public and I can respond to an outsider's query directly with a copy to the participant and link them together. Otherwise I can only forward the query to the participant, but often I know all about his ancestral line and can answer any question about it. That's what Admins should be able to do. I descend from Roland LAWSON and Lettice WALE three ways: Rowland LAWSON II c1644 through son Henry b c1678 m c1697 Mary SALLARD, through dau Sarah m 1720 Wm HATHAWAY John LAWSON b c1657 m 1680 Mary KILBEE, through son Epaphroditus b 1684 m 1710 Elizabeth DYMER, through dau Judith b 1710 m 1730 Francis TIMBERLAKE Letitiia m William HATHAWAY b 1636: grandfather of Wm above. Perhaps you and I both got large enough segments of the same DNA from these folks that came all the way down to us, that we would show up as a FF DNA match! Sign up for the Family Finder DNA test! Jim Bartlett On 09/26/11, Janean Ray<[email protected]> wrote: OK Jim, here's your chance to "esplain to Lucy" about DNA...lol First of all I have no male descendants to test ANY of my family lines except for my brother from one particular line because it comes down from all men through my father's father. All the rest of my lines go to my father then my grandmother back to Virginia and all the CHINN, BALL, TRAVERS ETC. ETC. lines and my understanding is you can't use women. Anyway..... IF I find someone has proven their line through DNA..... And I KNOW for certain that is my line.... How can I get hooked up with that person? Everyone I have ever spoken to or websites I've been directed to I get a bunch of batch numbers that mean absolutely nothing to me. So for instance..... Below: You mention Roland/Rowland Lawson...... Who I'm assuming is the spouse to Letitia Wales and son to John Lawson MY NOTES: John Lawson b. 1575, of "Brough Hall", England. He was son of Sir Ralph Lawson & Elizabeth Brough. He married Sarah Rowland on 1606, Brough hall, Catterick, Yorkshire, England. She was b. 1582, England. She was dau. of Richard Rowland Esq. & Joyce Lyttell. They also said Sarah's father was Thomas Rowland (most likely be Richard). They had four children. One of their son: Rowland Lawson Sr. b. 1608/17, England, came to America 1638 - Greer - early Virginia Immigrants. He was the son of John Lawson & Sarah Rowland. He married Lettice "Letitia" Wales on bef 1629 or bef 1636, Lancaster County, Virginia, d. aft 1661, Lancaster County, Virginia. She was dau. of George Wales & Lewys (no last name). George Wales first settle in Maryland, d. Mar 1670/71, Lancaster County, Virginia. Lewys (no last name) b. bet 1610-11, England, d. aft Aug 1689. Rowland Lawson & Lettice "Letitia" Wales had eight children. NOW....... Roland was my 9th great grandfather. Allegedly! SO if this DNA has say been proven to YOU.... And you are some person I've never met... On a Lawson DNA website how do people like me get involved??? Get connected to the person who belongs to this line? I have found in the little bit I've looked into - these people are not very forthcoming with information. Its like THEY shelled out the money to get tested and don't want to share their information. Is that just the nature of the beast and not everyone is like that? What are your thoughts? And what is Eppa; Henry mean? I don't mean to sound ignorant but there are a lot of areas of genealogy I have yet to explore... Some things come natural to some and not so much to others. I learn by asking questions because with adult A.D.D. I often find it difficult to try and read and comprehend some of this stuff so I do a lot of asking questions and just pushing buttons to see where it gets me. LOL I have a hard enough time just trying to digest all the verbiage posted on here sometimes. LAWSON, Roland b 1617 England; to VA 1633; four generations Lancaster Co, VA thru 1700s: Eppa; Henry Thanks, Janean ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VA-N[1][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. mailto:[email protected]

In a message dated 9/26/2011 1:14:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Amanda, I can't say whether or not Daniel Field was the brother of Margaret Ashton, but it is true that his daughter Joyce Field married Joshua-2 Hudson, son of Joshua-1 Hudson & Elizabeth Rush. Craig On Sep 26, 2011, at 10:26 AM, Amanda Douglass wrote: > Craig, > > Part of your post. I caught name "Charles Ashton". [I haven't posted in awhile but watch. Hope this isn't too long.] > > "Here is the case. Joshua HUDSON died in Westmoreland County in 1704, testate. His will was dated 6 JUN 1704 and proved 26 JUL 1704. He names his wife Elizabeth [who was Elizabeth RUSH] and four sons: > > (2) Joshua, 100 acres "I now live on" adjacent Capt. Charles Ashton and William Rust" > > > Question: > Was above Charles Ashton one of the below men? > I ask because the name of Daniel Field being in this record. > Was Daniel Field related to Margaret...like her brother? > > Record with source cut and pasted: > > WESTMORELAND COUNTY ORDER BOOK, 1707-1709; pg 65 > Westmoreland County Court 26th ofJanuary 1708/09 > - MARGRETT ASHTON to B. ASHTON, Gent., dischame &c A Release of > Dower and Thirds of the lands of CHARLES ASHTON, Gent., deceased, from Madam MARGRETT ASHTON, Relict of CHARLES ASHTON, deceased, to BURDETT ASHTON and CHARLES ASHTON, as also satisfaction for her Widdow's part of the personall Estate ofher deceased Husband acknowledged by DANIELL FIELD by vertue of a Power ofAttorney from sd MARGREET to him and ordered to bee recorded > > Sources: > 1.. Title: Abraham Field > Repository: > Media: Book > Text: Descendants of Abraham Field, Westmoreland County, Virginia, 1636-1674 > by Lucie Catherine Field, Eugene Allen Field & Miriam Grasz Field © August 2004 Patterson California All rights reserved > > Question: > If above DANIEL FIELD was a brother of Margaret who was widow of CHARLES ASHTON, then it looks like DANIEL FIELD had a daughter [stepdaugher?] JOYCE married a HUDSON. Could this be the same HUDSON line? > > Record with source cut and pasted: > > "Wills of Westmoreland County, Virginia , Page 71 > FIELD, DANIEL, 17 April 1720; * * *; July 1720. 2 plantations and 1 negro to dau. Joyce Hudson; Emma Price; sons Abraham and Henry my still and worm; son Henry 50 acres of land and the land in the fork of Rappahannock River to Abraham and Henry; son John Wheeler exr; Evan Price land in Stafford county; son Daniel Field land on Popes Creek." > > My interest is line of Daniel Field. > > Thank you, > Amanda > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Amanda, I can't say whether or not Daniel Field was the brother of Margaret Ashton, but it is true that his daughter Joyce Field married Joshua-2 Hudson, son of Joshua-1 Hudson & Elizabeth Rush. Craig On Sep 26, 2011, at 10:26 AM, Amanda Douglass wrote: > Craig, > > Part of your post. I caught name "Charles Ashton". [I haven't posted in awhile but watch. Hope this isn't too long.] > > "Here is the case. Joshua HUDSON died in Westmoreland County in 1704, testate. His will was dated 6 JUN 1704 and proved 26 JUL 1704. He names his wife Elizabeth [who was Elizabeth RUSH] and four sons: > > (2) Joshua, 100 acres "I now live on" adjacent Capt. Charles Ashton and William Rust" > > > Question: > Was above Charles Ashton one of the below men? > I ask because the name of Daniel Field being in this record. > Was Daniel Field related to Margaret...like her brother? > > Record with source cut and pasted: > > WESTMORELAND COUNTY ORDER BOOK, 1707-1709; pg 65 > Westmoreland County Court 26th ofJanuary 1708/09 > - MARGRETT ASHTON to B. ASHTON, Gent., dischame &c A Release of > Dower and Thirds of the lands of CHARLES ASHTON, Gent., deceased, from Madam MARGRETT ASHTON, Relict of CHARLES ASHTON, deceased, to BURDETT ASHTON and CHARLES ASHTON, as also satisfaction for her Widdow's part of the personall Estate ofher deceased Husband acknowledged by DANIELL FIELD by vertue of a Power ofAttorney from sd MARGREET to him and ordered to bee recorded > > Sources: > 1.. Title: Abraham Field > Repository: > Media: Book > Text: Descendants of Abraham Field, Westmoreland County, Virginia, 1636-1674 > by Lucie Catherine Field, Eugene Allen Field & Miriam Grasz Field © August 2004 Patterson California All rights reserved > > Question: > If above DANIEL FIELD was a brother of Margaret who was widow of CHARLES ASHTON, then it looks like DANIEL FIELD had a daughter [stepdaugher?] JOYCE married a HUDSON. Could this be the same HUDSON line? > > Record with source cut and pasted: > > "Wills of Westmoreland County, Virginia , Page 71 > FIELD, DANIEL, 17 April 1720; * * *; July 1720. 2 plantations and 1 negro to dau. Joyce Hudson; Emma Price; sons Abraham and Henry my still and worm; son Henry 50 acres of land and the land in the fork of Rappahannock River to Abraham and Henry; son John Wheeler exr; Evan Price land in Stafford county; son Daniel Field land on Popes Creek." > > My interest is line of Daniel Field. > > Thank you, > Amanda >

I agree with you that sources such as FTM, WC, A.com, "my own history", a County History, "because I say so", etc. are pretty much worthless - I say pretty much worthless because sometimes I've found a stated relationship, for which I've been searching for years, and upon further investigation it proves to be correct and there are many records to back it up. With the tools Ancestry has now, it's fairly easy to find and attach real records, and/or links to them, to individuals. I have done a lot with the census records. As Admin for the BARTLETT-DNA Project, I have extracted BARTLETTs from every census 1790-1880 for VA, WV, MD, DC, NC, SC, GA, TN, KY, AL and AR, and have partials for many other states. When you look at this body of evidence (and I know it's strengths and weeknesses) you can learn a lot about the many BARTLETT lines - it took me about 6 months to do each state and arrange it into families (using other records, too), so that now I'm able to help most newbies with their tree. I've filled in the VA BARTLETTs with details from the annual Personal Property Tax Lists (PPTL; 1782 - 1850) - again a lot of microfilms to scroll, but once done, it's done, and the body of knowledge is very instructive in putting together family lines. My next big project will be committing this all to Ancestry (then making a GEDcom and uploading it to WorldConnect). Folks can use it, or not, as they wish. It's my legacy of researching since 1974... My point in the above is that Ancestry, now makes it very easy to link the census records to your tree pages; the same with many other digital copies and/or links of original, and transcribed, records - this is how I'm trying to document my trees on Ancestry. Adding pictures is also easy. For a NN Tree we should strive to populate each page (like a family group sheet) with links to real records or add pdf copies of records we have. This will be the real power of the NN Tree - documentation. Even many "copiers" will accept a documented tree over an undocumented one. It's almost a responsibility of serious genealogists to put up documented trees and try to get the record straight - to take the offensive! By working on this as a group, we can draw on the research of many, and build an impressively documented tree - I've seen in the email traffic, the kind of info this list holds - it's like gold - and a NN Tree could capture it for all. Coupled with serious peer review on this message list and FB, the NN Tree could be an outstanding model. Jim Bartlett On 09/26/11, Edward White<[email protected]> wrote: You can view World Connect for free. If you are lucky and patient, you may well find decent information with what we would call sources, or better yet a confession that the author is not sure of a certain listing. When I see a "tree" with thousands of names, I run. I once sent them a message asking why they cannot create better categories of what they call "sources". At present they list FTM files, LDS and whatever as a "source". Of course I received no answer. They are in business to achieve the greatest number of hits. That is why the ads, which take forever to load, are there. It is dreary, but then so are a lot of "sources" printed in hardcover for family glorification. This is why historians, often unfairly, view genealogists as poor stepchildren to be lodged in the scullery. On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Janean Ray <[1][email protected]> wrote: > I totally agree with you on being part of the solution and taking the > offense..... However.. What I'm saying is.. People take what is on line as > gospel. I think it's a step in the right direction. I had Ancestry for a > few years for research....... I was lucky to have gotten it at a greatly > reduced rate due to an error by the guy signing me up.... Unfortunately I > had to let my subscription go. I hear a lot of people complaining about > what happens to their stuff once its uploaded.... So that scares me. I > don't know enough about it. But my question is...... If invited.... Do you > have be subscribed to veiw it? I don't think so as I believe someone once > sent me an invite but there again..... With anyone having the ability to > upload their stuff (people LOVE seeing themselves online) its still a > matter > of proving it yourself. I am totally all for correct information getting > out > there... What I'm saying is.... Just on this list alone..... There has been > bickering over whose source is a better one..... So I'm just saying..... In > theory it sounds like a great plan.... But some people will STILL use the > source information that works for them so be prepared that one person can't > change the world.... But one person can possibly make a difference. Its > worth a try....because right now..... Doing something positive is better > than letting the weeds keep growing. I'm on board.... Just playing devil's > advocate > > > Janean Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: va-n[2][email protected] > [[3]mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim Bartlett > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 5:06 PM > To: [4][email protected] > Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] We have a golden opportunity tobuild > alastinglegacy for Northern Neck Families. > > > Janean, > > Some of what you point out may be true, but the other side of the coin is > that a lot of good research is on Ancestry, AND it has a good suite of > tools > that are integrated with teh trees to let you find records and attach > them > to your trees; add pictures of people and/or tombstones, etc. and add in > writen documents expaining what you've done and why. Of course there are > some who just mine the info and have no idea if it's right or wrong. But > we > can't stop that. What we can do, is put up well documented info - in > other > words: rather than duck or hide from the issues, go on the offensive and > post to the best of our ability. As a group, we would be open to peer > review, and could correct (and document) the info, just as has been > happening on this list. > > Let this group be part of the solution. > > > Jim Bartlett > > On 09/23/11, Janean Ray<[5][email protected]> wrote: > I'm a little suspicious of why anyone would want to upload their entire > database to places like ancestry and say world connect.... Nothing is > EVER > fully proven and therefore subject to just continually passing along > wrong > information. I have had people take my information and upload it to World > Connect and at this very minute my LIVING mother is listed on there. I > have > seen hoards of my information on there that someone got a hold of very > early > on in my research and put it on World Connect and its totally now wrong. > Ancesty I've heard then OWNS your information and people have tried to > remove it or make corrections and can't... I don't know the details > because > it didn't involve me but I've also seen people who "collect" names and > families..... And don't care where they get the information. 20+ thousand > people in a database seems a little suspicious to me. I've seen that on > World Connect and I've gone into people's pages...... And somehow always > seem to find my family attached to them. > Janean > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VA-N[6][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VA-N[7][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VA-N[8][email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. mailto:[email protected] 2. mailto:[email protected] 3. mailto:[email protected] 4. mailto:[email protected] 5. mailto:[email protected] 6. mailto:[email protected] 7. mailto:[email protected] 8. mailto:[email protected]

OK Jim, here's your chance to "esplain to Lucy" about DNA...lol First of all I have no male descendants to test ANY of my family lines except for my brother from one particular line because it comes down from all men through my father's father. All the rest of my lines go to my father then my grandmother back to Virginia and all the CHINN, BALL, TRAVERS ETC. ETC. lines and my understanding is you can't use women. Anyway..... IF I find someone has proven their line through DNA..... And I KNOW for certain that is my line.... How can I get hooked up with that person? Everyone I have ever spoken to or websites I've been directed to I get a bunch of batch numbers that mean absolutely nothing to me. So for instance..... Below: You mention Roland/Rowland Lawson...... Who I'm assuming is the spouse to Letitia Wales and son to John Lawson MY NOTES: John Lawson b. 1575, of "Brough Hall", England. He was son of Sir Ralph Lawson & Elizabeth Brough. He married Sarah Rowland on 1606, Brough hall, Catterick, Yorkshire, England. She was b. 1582, England. She was dau. of Richard Rowland Esq. & Joyce Lyttell. They also said Sarah's father was Thomas Rowland (most likely be Richard). They had four children. One of their son: Rowland Lawson Sr. b. 1608/17, England, came to America 1638 - Greer - early Virginia Immigrants. He was the son of John Lawson & Sarah Rowland. He married Lettice "Letitia" Wales on bef 1629 or bef 1636, Lancaster County, Virginia, d. aft 1661, Lancaster County, Virginia. She was dau. of George Wales & Lewys (no last name). George Wales first settle in Maryland, d. Mar 1670/71, Lancaster County, Virginia. Lewys (no last name) b. bet 1610-11, England, d. aft Aug 1689. Rowland Lawson & Lettice "Letitia" Wales had eight children. NOW....... Roland was my 9th great grandfather. Allegedly! SO if this DNA has say been proven to YOU.... And you are some person I've never met... On a Lawson DNA website how do people like me get involved??? Get connected to the person who belongs to this line? I have found in the little bit I've looked into - these people are not very forthcoming with information. Its like THEY shelled out the money to get tested and don't want to share their information. Is that just the nature of the beast and not everyone is like that? What are your thoughts? And what is Eppa; Henry mean? I don't mean to sound ignorant but there are a lot of areas of genealogy I have yet to explore... Some things come natural to some and not so much to others. I learn by asking questions because with adult A.D.D. I often find it difficult to try and read and comprehend some of this stuff so I do a lot of asking questions and just pushing buttons to see where it gets me. LOL I have a hard enough time just trying to digest all the verbiage posted on here sometimes. LAWSON, Roland b 1617 England; to VA 1633; four generations Lancaster Co, VA thru 1700s: Eppa; Henry Thanks, Janean

You can view World Connect for free. If you are lucky and patient, you may well find decent information with what we would call sources, or better yet a confession that the author is not sure of a certain listing. When I see a "tree" with thousands of names, I run. I once sent them a message asking why they cannot create better categories of what they call "sources". At present they list FTM files, LDS and whatever as a "source". Of course I received no answer. They are in business to achieve the greatest number of hits. That is why the ads, which take forever to load, are there. It is dreary, but then so are a lot of "sources" printed in hardcover for family glorification. This is why historians, often unfairly, view genealogists as poor stepchildren to be lodged in the scullery. On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Janean Ray <[email protected]> wrote: > I totally agree with you on being part of the solution and taking the > offense..... However.. What I'm saying is.. People take what is on line as > gospel. I think it's a step in the right direction. I had Ancestry for a > few years for research....... I was lucky to have gotten it at a greatly > reduced rate due to an error by the guy signing me up.... Unfortunately I > had to let my subscription go. I hear a lot of people complaining about > what happens to their stuff once its uploaded.... So that scares me. I > don't know enough about it. But my question is...... If invited.... Do you > have be subscribed to veiw it? I don't think so as I believe someone once > sent me an invite but there again..... With anyone having the ability to > upload their stuff (people LOVE seeing themselves online) its still a > matter > of proving it yourself. I am totally all for correct information getting > out > there... What I'm saying is.... Just on this list alone..... There has been > bickering over whose source is a better one..... So I'm just saying..... In > theory it sounds like a great plan.... But some people will STILL use the > source information that works for them so be prepared that one person can't > change the world.... But one person can possibly make a difference. Its > worth a try....because right now..... Doing something positive is better > than letting the weeds keep growing. I'm on board.... Just playing devil's > advocate > > > Janean Ray > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim Bartlett > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 5:06 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] We have a golden opportunity tobuild > alastinglegacy for Northern Neck Families. > > > Janean, > > Some of what you point out may be true, but the other side of the coin is > that a lot of good research is on Ancestry, AND it has a good suite of > tools > that are integrated with teh trees to let you find records and attach > them > to your trees; add pictures of people and/or tombstones, etc. and add in > writen documents expaining what you've done and why. Of course there are > some who just mine the info and have no idea if it's right or wrong. But > we > can't stop that. What we can do, is put up well documented info - in > other > words: rather than duck or hide from the issues, go on the offensive and > post to the best of our ability. As a group, we would be open to peer > review, and could correct (and document) the info, just as has been > happening on this list. > > Let this group be part of the solution. > > > Jim Bartlett > > On 09/23/11, Janean Ray<[email protected]> wrote: > I'm a little suspicious of why anyone would want to upload their entire > database to places like ancestry and say world connect.... Nothing is > EVER > fully proven and therefore subject to just continually passing along > wrong > information. I have had people take my information and upload it to World > Connect and at this very minute my LIVING mother is listed on there. I > have > seen hoards of my information on there that someone got a hold of very > early > on in my research and put it on World Connect and its totally now wrong. > Ancesty I've heard then OWNS your information and people have tried to > remove it or make corrections and can't... I don't know the details > because > it didn't involve me but I've also seen people who "collect" names and > families..... And don't care where they get the information. 20+ thousand > people in a database seems a little suspicious to me. I've seen that on > World Connect and I've gone into people's pages...... And somehow always > seem to find my family attached to them. > Janean > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Would agree that personal property can be divided and is not subject to intestate laws of primogeniture. I would differ on whether an estate tail would be created. "I give my real estate to A" at common law gives A a life estate. The remainder would then pass to the heirs of A. probably intestate and thus winding up as you said in the eldest. A true estate in tail is: I give Blackacre to my son John and the heirs male of his body. Thus you have both words of purchase and words of limitation. In reading many of these wills one does wonder just how closely the common law was followed. Many wills simply leave land to X, and are treated from there on as a fee simple in X and his heirs. It obviously worked because in the bulk of the cases there was no challenge. I have noticed in Westmoreland Orders how few wills are challenged, though that may have occurred at a higher court level. Even under common law a court could seek the true intent of the testator, though that doctrine was not as strong as it is today. On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 11:56 PM, Craig Kilby <[email protected]> wrote: > No, this isn't a law suit. It's an odd situation and one I hope will be an > interesting item for discussion here. I must first preface this with a less > withering assault on this source than either Beverley Fleet or John Dorman > gave in their abstracts of transcribed Westmoreland County record books. The > following both come from the transcribed copy of the now-lost original of > Westmoreland County Deeds & Wills No. 3, 1701-1707. The transcript was made > in 1852 and both Fleet and Dorman URGE the reader to be very cautious in > using it. > > Here is the case. Joshua HUDSON died in Westmoreland County in 1704, > testate. His will was dated 6 JUN 1704 and proved 26 JUL 1704. He names his > wife Elizabeth [who was Elizabeth RUSH] and four sons: > > (1) John, the plantation he now lives on > (2) Joshua, 100 acres "I now live on" adjacent Capt. Charles Ashton and > William Rust > (3) & (4) Caleb and Rush "the remainder part of my land lying between John > and Joshua to be equally divided, Caleb having first choice" > > To wife Elizabeth "all the remainder part of my estate." > > Wife Elizabeth and son Joshua executors. > > Witnessed by Jno Lilley, Wm. Ramsey, Hannah Baker > > First note the language regarding the land does not leave any of the land > to "him and his heirs forever" thus creating an entailed estate to > (presumably) eldest son John and his heirs. John died in 1708 leaving two > daughters Margaret and Mary Hudson. His will names no wife. > > BUT....that is just one part of it. The will does not name four of his > daughters. > > We learn their identity in a deed of gift to them from one Chapman Dark > dated 27 Jan 1704/5. The deed leaves specific personal property to"my loving > friends" Sarah Hudson, Ann Hudson, Elizabeth Hudson and Margaret Hudson > "daughters of Josh: Hudson late deceased" for love, good will and affection. > The deeds specifies that for three of the daughters, the gift was to be > theirs when they arrive to age 17. This was witnessed by Caleb Hudson and > Cossom Bennett. > > I can only SURMISE that Chapman Dark was their Godfather but that is merely > a guess on my part. I don't know of any familial relationship, at least at > this point. > > If I understand colonial law correctly, the "remainder of my estate" > (almost certainly all the personal property) mentioned in Joshua's will > which was left to his wife would be divided at her death between all of her > children, male and female. > > So, an interesting case study and does anyone know who Chapman Dark was? > > Craig > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I totally agree with you on being part of the solution and taking the offense..... However.. What I'm saying is.. People take what is on line as gospel. I think it's a step in the right direction. I had Ancestry for a few years for research....... I was lucky to have gotten it at a greatly reduced rate due to an error by the guy signing me up.... Unfortunately I had to let my subscription go. I hear a lot of people complaining about what happens to their stuff once its uploaded.... So that scares me. I don't know enough about it. But my question is...... If invited.... Do you have be subscribed to veiw it? I don't think so as I believe someone once sent me an invite but there again..... With anyone having the ability to upload their stuff (people LOVE seeing themselves online) its still a matter of proving it yourself. I am totally all for correct information getting out there... What I'm saying is.... Just on this list alone..... There has been bickering over whose source is a better one..... So I'm just saying..... In theory it sounds like a great plan.... But some people will STILL use the source information that works for them so be prepared that one person can't change the world.... But one person can possibly make a difference. Its worth a try....because right now..... Doing something positive is better than letting the weeds keep growing. I'm on board.... Just playing devil's advocate Janean Ray -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jim Bartlett Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 5:06 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] We have a golden opportunity tobuild alastinglegacy for Northern Neck Families. Janean, Some of what you point out may be true, but the other side of the coin is that a lot of good research is on Ancestry, AND it has a good suite of tools that are integrated with teh trees to let you find records and attach them to your trees; add pictures of people and/or tombstones, etc. and add in writen documents expaining what you've done and why. Of course there are some who just mine the info and have no idea if it's right or wrong. But we can't stop that. What we can do, is put up well documented info - in other words: rather than duck or hide from the issues, go on the offensive and post to the best of our ability. As a group, we would be open to peer review, and could correct (and document) the info, just as has been happening on this list. Let this group be part of the solution. Jim Bartlett On 09/23/11, Janean Ray<[email protected]> wrote: I'm a little suspicious of why anyone would want to upload their entire database to places like ancestry and say world connect.... Nothing is EVER fully proven and therefore subject to just continually passing along wrong information. I have had people take my information and upload it to World Connect and at this very minute my LIVING mother is listed on there. I have seen hoards of my information on there that someone got a hold of very early on in my research and put it on World Connect and its totally now wrong. Ancesty I've heard then OWNS your information and people have tried to remove it or make corrections and can't... I don't know the details because it didn't involve me but I've also seen people who "collect" names and families..... And don't care where they get the information. 20+ thousand people in a database seems a little suspicious to me. I've seen that on World Connect and I've gone into people's pages...... And somehow always seem to find my family attached to them. Janean ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Craig, Part of your post. I caught name "Charles Ashton". [I haven't posted in awhile but watch. Hope this isn't too long.] "Here is the case. Joshua HUDSON died in Westmoreland County in 1704, testate. His will was dated 6 JUN 1704 and proved 26 JUL 1704. He names his wife Elizabeth [who was Elizabeth RUSH] and four sons: (2) Joshua, 100 acres "I now live on" adjacent Capt. Charles Ashton and William Rust" Question: Was above Charles Ashton one of the below men? I ask because the name of Daniel Field being in this record. Was Daniel Field related to Margaret...like her brother? Record with source cut and pasted: WESTMORELAND COUNTY ORDER BOOK, 1707-1709; pg 65 Westmoreland County Court 26th ofJanuary 1708/09 - MARGRETT ASHTON to B. ASHTON, Gent., dischame &c A Release of Dower and Thirds of the lands of CHARLES ASHTON, Gent., deceased, from Madam MARGRETT ASHTON, Relict of CHARLES ASHTON, deceased, to BURDETT ASHTON and CHARLES ASHTON, as also satisfaction for her Widdow's part of the personall Estate ofher deceased Husband acknowledged by DANIELL FIELD by vertue of a Power ofAttorney from sd MARGREET to him and ordered to bee recorded Sources: 1.. Title: Abraham Field Repository: Media: Book Text: Descendants of Abraham Field, Westmoreland County, Virginia, 1636-1674 by Lucie Catherine Field, Eugene Allen Field & Miriam Grasz Field © August 2004 Patterson California All rights reserved Question: If above DANIEL FIELD was a brother of Margaret who was widow of CHARLES ASHTON, then it looks like DANIEL FIELD had a daughter [stepdaugher?] JOYCE married a HUDSON. Could this be the same HUDSON line? Record with source cut and pasted: "Wills of Westmoreland County, Virginia , Page 71 FIELD, DANIEL, 17 April 1720; * * *; July 1720. 2 plantations and 1 negro to dau. Joyce Hudson; Emma Price; sons Abraham and Henry my still and worm; son Henry 50 acres of land and the land in the fork of Rappahannock River to Abraham and Henry; son John Wheeler exr; Evan Price land in Stafford county; son Daniel Field land on Popes Creek." My interest is line of Daniel Field. Thank you, Amanda http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=mrmarsha&id=I26287