Marilyn-I have no concrete evidence that my Creels link to a George Creel that you mention. As a DAR member & officer, I use their database quite often in my research & there is a Rev War Patriot named George Creel b c1745 Prince William Co, VA, (m c1770 to Mary Athey), & d c1825 Wood Co, VA. He may or may not be a brother to my William Creel b c1749--? My research is ongoing so I will keep you in mind if I'm able to document anything further. Jude PS-The DAR database is not without errors, but I find it very helpful & it is constantly being updated & corrected as time goes on & new documentation becomes available. -----Original Message----- From: Marilyn Brien <brien@satx.rr.com> To: va-northern-neck <va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Oct 22, 2012 9:39 am Subject: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] NN Creel Family Jude, you list early Creel's in your NN surnames. I'd like to know whether you or anyone else knows of any evidence that would link or discount a link from your NN Creel's to David/George Creel from Pr.Wm. to Wood County, WVA, then westward. I've checked the Creel DNA site and find there are few Creel's tested and none of the listed appear to have trees going back to these early lines. Marilyn Brien My e-mail is: brien@satx.rr.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VA-NORTHERN-NECK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

sorry--and NOT thousands of years ago On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:31 AM, James Burnett <dougb81042@gmail.com> wrote: > Jim > Thank you very much for that effort. I also appreciate that we are working > in genealogy time-4-6 gens--and thousands of years ago. > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Jim Bartlett <jim4bartletts@verizon.net>wrote: > >> hard to develop explanations for all this stuff that don't require any >> biology. > > > > > -- > Douglas Burnett > Satellite Beach > FL > As a member of the Association of Professional Genealogists (APG), the > National Genealogical Society (NGS), the Florida State Genealogical > Society(FSGS) and the Virginia Genealogical Society(VGS), I support and > adhere to the APG's Code of Ethics. > > > -- Douglas Burnett Satellite Beach FL As a member of the Association of Professional Genealogists (APG), the National Genealogical Society (NGS), the Florida State Genealogical Society(FSGS) and the Virginia Genealogical Society(VGS), I support and adhere to the APG's Code of Ethics.

Jim Thank you very much for that effort. I also appreciate that we are working in genealogy time-4-6 gens--and thousands of years ago. On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Jim Bartlett <jim4bartletts@verizon.net>wrote: > hard to develop explanations for all this stuff that don't require any > biology. -- Douglas Burnett Satellite Beach FL As a member of the Association of Professional Genealogists (APG), the National Genealogical Society (NGS), the Florida State Genealogical Society(FSGS) and the Virginia Genealogical Society(VGS), I support and adhere to the APG's Code of Ethics.

Jim, We are working in genealogy time, which can go back many more generations. I now have five 10th cousins (back 11 generations), from the Family Finder test. My average is 7th and 8th cousins. The Family Finder test is much more precise at 4-6 generations, but you have many more cousins, and will get many more matches, beyond that. The extent you can find Common Ancestors depends almost entirely on your Tree and your match's Tree because the Common Ancestor must be in both. The Family Finder test will give the participant a broad brush outline of geographic diversity (UK, Europe, Africa, Asia, etc). I don't plan to do anything with that info, at this point. My focus will be on the Family Finder Common Ancestors in the Northern Neck - that should keep me busy enough. Jim Bartlett On 10/22/12, James Burnett<dougb81042@gmail.com> wrote: Jim Thank you very much for that effort. I also appreciate that we are working in genealogy time-4-6 gens--and thousands of years ago. On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Jim Bartlett <[1]jim4bartletts@verizon.net>wrote: > hard to develop explanations for all this stuff that don't require any > biology. -- Douglas Burnett References 1. mailto:jim4bartletts@verizon.net

Craig The participants do not see anything more than they saw before. They each have a new NN option to show only Y or mt matches within the group, if they want. The participants will not see each other, except as matches. The public will not see anyone's personal page, which is password protected. The public will see the website. They can see the text that I have already added to describe the project and our goals. Soon the public will see the list of Patriarchs and Matriarchs of our participants on the website. The public is not allowed to see the private pages, the participants' addresses, their data, their lists of matches, etc. The group project does not create a fish bowl effect, if that is what you're looking for. As the participants agree, I can include a list of them and links to their public Trees. This must be done with the permission of each person. I plaster my name, genealogy email, and links to several online Trees everywhere I can. I want people to look at my anc! estors and find matches and contact me. But this is a personal choice, and not everyone sees it that way. I'm also working on a format for posting matches on the public website, as agreed by the participants. I will often err on the side of privacy, and will sometimes need to be reminded, by participants, to post their info. I get uneasy, sometimes, worrying about releasing sensitive info. Actually, I'd rather not know it! One issue I'm already facing is the names of the other side of a Common Ancestor match. Here is a person, not in our group, who is a match. This name is actually quite valuable because other participants should be looking to see if they have him/her as a match, too. I'm not sure how it will turn out. Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! On Oct 22, 2012, at 1:40 AM, Craig Kilby <persisto1@gmail.com> wrote: > Jim, I know all of this and I understand all of this. No need to keep repeating it. What I don't understand how the FTDNA SITE itself is supposed to work if it is only showing Y-DNA and mtDNA but NOT atDNA results. Can you explain it? > > Craig

Jude, you list early Creel's in your NN surnames. I'd like to know whether you or anyone else knows of any evidence that would link or discount a link from your NN Creel's to David/George Creel from Pr.Wm. to Wood County, WVA, then westward. I've checked the Creel DNA site and find there are few Creel's tested and none of the listed appear to have trees going back to these early lines. Marilyn Brien My e-mail is: brien@satx.rr.com

Barbara Actually, as I think about it, it is FTDNA's policy (and mine) to observe the privacy requests of their customers. In fact all three companies provide methods for customers to participate but still maintain some privacy. We will have to be careful to observe these requests. At the same time this is a group project, so we want to share as much as possible. This is one reason why I've asked the participants to provide the information about their Patriarchs for our group list. I also allow the names of the test takers to remain a John/Jane Doe (or even selected people in a Tree) if that's desired. To use these DNA tools it is not essential to know everything - the individual who takes the test is not important, their ancestry is. Even a few close ancestors are not critical - most of the group interest is in the tips of the trees, the Patriarchs and Matriarchs of lines. Our own interest is whether DNA was passed down from Common Ancestors to ourselves and to someone else - thereby proving both lines. Well really proving our own line. The DNA is a tool. We use it to learn more about our genealogies. We can do that and still respect the desires of others. Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! On Oct 22, 2012, at 1:15 AM, "karenhappuch" <karenhappuch@cox.net> wrote: > Jim, > I don't think I'd want my tree seen by non-matches. My tree will > contain some likely persons that I don't "publish"; that is I don't include > them on my website or in printed reports. Some of these will be in the > gedcom that goes to FTDNA. They'll be there because they might be the > common ancestor with a match. > > Barbara > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Bartlett" <jim4bartletts@verizon.net> > To: <va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 9:08 PM > Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Autosomal DNA Project for NorthernNeck > Families > > >> David >> >> I'll ask FTDNA if this is possible. >> >> However you can see the posted Trees of anyone who matches you through >> Family Finder from your FTDNA webpage. I don't understand why you'd want >> to see the Trees of people you don't match? >> >> And we should all be adding our NN ancestries to the NN Tree. This would >> make the NN Tree a very valuable companion tool to those with Family >> Finder tests in the NN DNA Group. And we'd all be working off the same >> sheet of music - that's a goal for this group. >> >> Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime!

Ball, Benjamin 1719 Middlesex-1807 Fauquier Ball, Edward c 1670 ?-1726 Middlesex Owen, Augustine c 1680 Middlesex-c 1725 Middlesex McNeal(e), John 1744 Middlesex-1787 Fauquier Creel, William 1712 Richmond-1757 Prince William Creel, Thomas 1685 Old Rappahannock(later Richmond)-1727 Richmond Creele, John c 1656 England-c 1720 Northumberland Dodson, Thomas 1681 Old Rappahannock(later Richmond)-1740 Richmond Dodson, Charles Joseph c 1649 Lancaster (later Old Rap)-1705 Richmond Dodson, Jesse c 1623 Jamestown-1655 Old Rappahannock (later Richmond) Durham, Thomas 1661 Old Rappahannock (later Richmond)-1716 Richmond Smoot, William c 1652 Old Rappahannock (later Essex or Richmond)-1716 Essex or Richmond

Jim, I know all of this and I understand all of this. No need to keep repeating it. What I don't understand how the FTDNA SITE itself is supposed to work if it is only showing Y-DNA and mtDNA but NOT atDNA results. Can you explain it? Craig On Oct 20, 2012, at 11:03 AM, Jim Bartlett wrote: > Craig > > I think I see the confusion here. > > The Y-DNA test uses only the Y-chromosome - the smallest chromosome of all (by far), but with the unique property of passing only from father to son. > > The mtDNA test uses only the mitochondrial DNA, which is not even a chromosome - it also has a unique property - passing only from mothers to children, not passed on by men > > The atDNA test uses the autosomal DNA, chromosomes 1 to 22, representing over 95% if all you DNA. It is passed from parents to children - you get 50% from each parent. > > These three tests are very different (apples, oranges, cranberries). They are each very powerful tools but don't interrelate. The genealogies do interrelate, but the DNA tools must be used separately (think hammer, saw and screwdriver when building a birdhouse) > > Hope this helps,

Janean I've worked hard to develop explanations for all this stuff that don't require any biology. If I get too deep in the jargon please call me on it, and I'll try a kinder/gentler explanation. We don't need any degree to apply the DNA tools. Some elbow grease and midnight oil perhaps, but no biology. Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! On Oct 21, 2012, at 10:28 PM, "Janean Ray" <jray38@neo.rr.com> wrote: > This all sounds like it takes a PhD to understand the lingo. Been glancing > over the emails as they come in and for a the lay person, wow! A lot to > digest. But I'll keep watching > > Janean

David I'll ask FTDNA if this is possible. However you can see the posted Trees of anyone who matches you through Family Finder from your FTDNA webpage. I don't understand why you'd want to see the Trees of people you don't match? And we should all be adding our NN ancestries to the NN Tree. This would make the NN Tree a very valuable companion tool to those with Family Finder tests in the NN DNA Group. And we'd all be working off the same sheet of music - that's a goal for this group. Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! On Oct 21, 2012, at 4:44 PM, DAVID BROWN <dbrown544@prodigy.net> wrote: > Hi Jim, > > I'm in! Sorry it took so long as I was away from the computer for a few days. My sister will be joining too (she's not a member of this List, but I can answer questions for her). > > I will also send a listing of my surnames/locations. > > I've missed quite a few e-mails in the last couple of days, so my apologies if this has already been covered. But, since the Project lists the participants by YDNA and mtDNA results, do you think FTDNA would allow us to access the posted GEDCOM/family trees/pedigrees. For example, I've posted both my surnames and a GEDCOM to the FTDNA site, which may be accessed by any of my autosomal matches. However, it could be beneficial if each of us within the Northern Neck project could also access those GEDCOM/Family Tree/Pedigree files. Hopefully, what I'm asking makes sense. It may very well be that FTDNA won't allow this anyway. > > Thanks again for doing this! > > David > > > ________________________________ > From: Jim Bartlett <jim4bartletts@verizon.net> > To: "va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com" <va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 4:50 PM > Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Autosomal DNA Project for Northern Neck Families > > David > > We're waiting for you and your sister.... Just kidding;>j > > As of this morning we have 9 participants with almost 2,000 matches (not all with NN of course). I'm sure we have more in the wings... > > Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! > > On Oct 11, 2012, at 3:45 PM, DAVID BROWN <dbrown544@prodigy.net> wrote: > >> Thanks so much Jim! When the NN Project is available, I will be sure to add both myself and my sister to the list. My sister actually has some matches who show Dameron family ancestry in their family trees whereas my matches do not (at least they don't show obvious Dameron ancestry). This is yet another intriguing aspect of DNA autosomal testing. Of my 260 or so matches through the FTDNA Family Finder (autosomal) testing, I only share about 50% of that number with my sister! I have heard elsewhere that 50% is a good baseline with most siblings! You would think this percentage of shared matches between siblings would be significantly higher. Amazing! As such, my sister's testing has opened up other avenues for me to possibly break down the proverbial brick walls! >> >> Thanks again! >> >> David Brown > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VA-NORTHERN-NECK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VA-NORTHERN-NECK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This all sounds like it takes a PhD to understand the lingo. Been glancing over the emails as they come in and for a the lay person, wow! A lot to digest. But I'll keep watching Janean -----Original Message----- From: va-northern-neck-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:va-northern-neck-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jim Bartlett Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 12:12 AM To: va-northern-neck Subject: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] NN DNA status As of tonight we have 13 participants. 9 of the first 10 to join have agreed to publicize their info. And 11 of 13 have already taken the Family Finder test and they have 3,099 matches. Quite the start for our first two days! Lots to work with here. Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VA-NORTHERN-NECK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5345 - Release Date: 10/21/12

Jim, I don't think I'd want my tree seen by non-matches. My tree will contain some likely persons that I don't "publish"; that is I don't include them on my website or in printed reports. Some of these will be in the gedcom that goes to FTDNA. They'll be there because they might be the common ancestor with a match. Barbara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Bartlett" <jim4bartletts@verizon.net> To: <va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 9:08 PM Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Autosomal DNA Project for NorthernNeck Families > David > > I'll ask FTDNA if this is possible. > > However you can see the posted Trees of anyone who matches you through > Family Finder from your FTDNA webpage. I don't understand why you'd want > to see the Trees of people you don't match? > > And we should all be adding our NN ancestries to the NN Tree. This would > make the NN Tree a very valuable companion tool to those with Family > Finder tests in the NN DNA Group. And we'd all be working off the same > sheet of music - that's a goal for this group. > > Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! > > On Oct 21, 2012, at 4:44 PM, DAVID BROWN <dbrown544@prodigy.net> wrote: > >> Hi Jim, >> >> I'm in! Sorry it took so long as I was away from the computer for a few >> days. My sister will be joining too (she's not a member of this List, >> but I can answer questions for her). >> >> I will also send a listing of my surnames/locations. >> >> I've missed quite a few e-mails in the last couple of days, so my >> apologies if this has already been covered. But, since the Project lists >> the participants by YDNA and mtDNA results, do you think FTDNA would >> allow us to access the posted GEDCOM/family trees/pedigrees. For >> example, I've posted both my surnames and a GEDCOM to the FTDNA site, >> which may be accessed by any of my autosomal matches. However, it could >> be beneficial if each of us within the Northern Neck project could also >> access those GEDCOM/Family Tree/Pedigree files. Hopefully, what I'm >> asking makes sense. It may very well be that FTDNA won't allow this >> anyway. >> >> Thanks again for doing this! >> >> David >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Jim Bartlett <jim4bartletts@verizon.net> >> To: "va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com" <va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 4:50 PM >> Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Autosomal DNA Project for Northern Neck >> Families >> >> David >> >> We're waiting for you and your sister.... Just kidding;>j >> >> As of this morning we have 9 participants with almost 2,000 matches (not >> all with NN of course). I'm sure we have more in the wings... >> >> Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! >> >> On Oct 11, 2012, at 3:45 PM, DAVID BROWN <dbrown544@prodigy.net> wrote: >> >>> Thanks so much Jim! When the NN Project is available, I will be sure to >>> add both myself and my sister to the list. My sister actually has some >>> matches who show Dameron family ancestry in their family trees whereas >>> my matches do not (at least they don't show obvious Dameron ancestry). >>> This is yet another intriguing aspect of DNA autosomal testing. Of my >>> 260 or so matches through the FTDNA Family Finder (autosomal) testing, I >>> only share about 50% of that number with my sister! I have heard >>> elsewhere that 50% is a good baseline with most siblings! You would >>> think this percentage of shared matches between siblings would be >>> significantly higher. Amazing! As such, my sister's testing has >>> opened up other avenues for me to possibly break down the proverbial >>> brick walls! >>> >>> Thanks again! >>> >>> David Brown >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VA-NORTHERN-NECK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> VA-NORTHERN-NECK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > VA-NORTHERN-NECK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Jim, Yes, I am able to access trees/pedigrees of my FTDNA matches (if they actually post them).  If you don't think having access to the family trees/pedigrees of other NN Project members will be helpful, then there's no need to contact FTDNA about it.   Thanks. David  ________________________________ From: Jim Bartlett <jim4bartletts@verizon.net> To: "va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com" <va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Autosomal DNA Project for Northern Neck Families I don't understand why you'd want to see the Trees of people you don't match?

Jim, I am including my NN Ancestors below. Some Dates are estimates. As always, I'm looking for more documentation on all of the connections below.  Any corrections are appreciated. Thanks! David DAMERON & ALLIED FAMILIES of the NN: BALL, William, 1641 - 1694, Lancaster Co., VA, married to Margaret Williamson (he was son of William Ball, died c.1680, Lancaster Co., VA) BERRY, Thomas, c.1683 - 1743, Northumberland Co., VA, married Patience MNU (he was son of Thomas Berry, died c.1700, Northumberland Co., VA BYSSHE (BISH), Ursula, died c.1661, Northumberland Co., VA, married to Richard Thompson, John Mottram, and George Colclough COCKRILL, John, died 1707, Northumberland Co., VA, married to Elizabeth Presley DAMERON, Lawrence, c.1615 - 1660, Northumberland Co., VA, married to Dorothy MNU GARLINGTON, Christopher, died Aft. 1658, Northumberland Co., VA, married to Elizabeth Wyatt (?) HARRIS, John, died c.1707, Northumberland Co., VA, married to Grace MNU (I believe she was also married to John Ingram & Thomas Hopkins) HAYNIE, John, c.1624 - 1697, Northumberland Co., VA, married to Jane Morris (dau. of Nicholas) INGRAM, Thomas, died 1707, Northumberland Co., VA, married (supposedly) Katherine Winter (believe he was son of John Ingram) MOREHEAD, Alexander, died 1744, Northumberland Co., VA, married to Hannah Cockrill (he was son of Charles Morehead & Jane Presley????) MORRIS, Nicholas, died 1664, Northumberland Co., VA, married to Martha MNU (Martha has some connection to Robert Newman and/or his wife) PRESLEY, William, died c.1656, Northumberland Co., VA, married to Jane MNU (Jane has some connection to Robert Newman and/or his wife) THOMPSON, Richard, died c.1649, Northumberland Co., VA, married to Ursula Bysshe WILLIAMSON, Margaret, died 1709, Lancaster Co., VA, married to William Ball (dau. of Dr. James Williamson & Ann Underwood) OTHER NN Families: BUSH, Abraham, died 1686/1687, Lancaster Co., VA FRANK, Robert Sr., died 1725, Westmoreland Co., VA, married to Elizabeth MNU MARSHALL, Sarah, died 1726, Westmoreland Co., VA, married to Robert Frank, Jr. (possibly dau. of Thomas Marshall, died 1704, Westmoreland Co., VA) PROCTOR, George, died c.1735, Spotsylvania Co., VA (he lived most of his life in Richmond & King George Co., VA), may have married Mary Price, daughter of Edward Price, Sr. SHARP, Elias, died 1745, King George Co., VA, married Margaret Proctor I also have James Freeman/David Sharp families of Fauquier CO., VA with connections to Shaw, Compton, Clarke, etc. of Charles Co., MD. ________________________________ From: Jim Bartlett <jim4bartletts@verizon.net> To: va-northern-neck <va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 2:42 PM Subject: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Identify NN Ancestors for DNA For participants in the NN DNA group, please post here or send to me the following information about your NN Patriarchs (or Matriarchs): SURNAME, FirstName b yr-d yr NN county.

Hi Jim, I'm in!  Sorry it took so long as I was away from the computer for a few days.  My sister will be joining too (she's not a member of this List, but I can answer questions for her). I will also send a listing of my surnames/locations. I've missed quite a few e-mails in the last couple of days, so my apologies if this has already been covered.  But, since the Project lists the participants by YDNA and mtDNA results, do you think FTDNA would allow us to access the posted GEDCOM/family trees/pedigrees.  For example, I've posted both my surnames and a GEDCOM to the FTDNA site, which may be accessed by any of my autosomal matches.  However, it could be beneficial if each of us within the Northern Neck project could also access those GEDCOM/Family Tree/Pedigree files.  Hopefully, what I'm asking makes sense.  It may very well be that FTDNA won't allow this anyway. Thanks again for doing this! David ________________________________ From: Jim Bartlett <jim4bartletts@verizon.net> To: "va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com" <va-northern-neck@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [VA-NORTHERN-NECK] Autosomal DNA Project for Northern Neck Families David We're waiting for you and your sister.... Just kidding;>j As of this morning we have 9 participants with almost 2,000 matches (not all with NN of course). I'm sure we have more in the wings... Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! On Oct 11, 2012, at 3:45 PM, DAVID BROWN <dbrown544@prodigy.net> wrote: > Thanks so much Jim!  When the NN Project is available, I will be sure to add both myself and my sister to the list.  My sister actually has some matches who show Dameron family ancestry in their family trees whereas my matches do not (at least they don't show obvious Dameron ancestry).  This is yet another intriguing aspect of DNA autosomal testing.  Of my 260 or so matches through the FTDNA Family Finder (autosomal) testing, I only share about 50% of that number with my sister!  I have heard elsewhere that 50% is a good baseline with most siblings!  You would think this percentage of shared matches between siblings would be significantly higher.  Amazing!  As such, my sister's testing has opened up other avenues for me to possibly break down the proverbial brick walls! >  > Thanks again! >  > David Brown ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to VA-NORTHERN-NECK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Side note here: Besides some typos I cannot repair now, I wanted to add that I added our NN Tree the images of the original consent to and marriage bond of Anthony Sydnor to Elizabeth Taylor. I also added a transcript of the 1749 deed from William & Catherine Sydnor to Anthony & Elizabeth Sydnor. I wasn't very clear on who was granting and who was receiving. --Craig

[This is a bit long, but there is a valuable lesson here] All of are accustomed to using other people's versions of what the original records say. Few of us have the luxury of checking out their accuracy by consulting the original record. And even those of who--like me-- do have that luxury rarely feel compelled to so. Well, I was compelled to so in the case of Anthony Sydnor (Fortunatus-2, Fortunatus-1) and his wife Elizabeth Taylor. Why? Because the published abstracts were clearly not adding up. What led me to conclude that "something was not right" was transcribing an original deed from William & Catherine Sydnor to Anthony & Elizabeth Sydnor. The deed is quite clear in stating that Catherine was the widow of John Taylor and that she had remarried to William Sydnor, and that Elizabeth Sydnor was the daughter of John Taylor (same John Taylor, deceased) and the wife of Anthony Sydnor, and William & Catherine are deeded her dower interests to this property, the remaining ownership being vested in Elizabeth upon the death of her brother Joseph Taylor (who had died.) The deed is even kind enough to tell us that Anthony & Elizabeth were living in Wicomico Parish in Northumberland County, and that William & Catherine were residents of St. Mary's White Chapel Parish in Lancaster County, where! the land was located [and one presumes where they were then living] What was NOT clear were the published records for these people. Talk about fuzzy math. Let's review the published versions of this story: (1) Ida J. Lee, Abstracts of Lancaster County Wills 1663-1800. Will of John Taylor. Names wife Catherine, son Joseph, daughter Ann and "unchristened child." John Taylor's will was dated 20 Mar 1721/2. [I found his original will and this is indeed what it says]. This "unchristened child" turns out to be Elizabeth Taylor wife of Anthony Sydnor. (2) Catherine (-----) Taylor, widow of John Taylor, married William Sydnor in Lancaster County, bond dated 1 Mar 1724/5 (Nottingham, 72). Nottingham's abstract does not call her a widow. Since this was not in dispute or question by me, I have not looked up the original bond. (3) Lee, ibid. Division of Estate of John Taylor 10 July 1737. Joseph Taylor, William & Catherine Sydnor, Anthony Sydnor & Elizabeth his wife "part of HER FATHER'S estate." That was the flag to look more deeply. Here is where it gets tricky--the published version of the marriage of Anthony Sydnor to Elizabeth Taylor: (1) Stratton Nottingham (p. 71). "Sydnor, Anthony SON OF WILLIAM & CATHERINE SYDNOR m. Elizabeth Taylor 3 Jan 1736/7, Thomas Edwards, sec." Keep in mind, Nottingham was abstract bonds, not ministers' returns. The purpose of the marriage bond was to ensure there was no legal impediment to the marriage. Thomas Edwards the clerk of the court, and he would certainly not have been the security for an illegal marriage, which if Anthony Sydnor was really the son of William and Catherine Sydnor here would have been. It would mean that Anthony was the half-brother of his bride Elizabeth Taylor. Further, this William (William-2, Fortunatus-1) had no son named Anthony. (2) Robert K. Headley in _Married Well AND Often--, (p. 340): "SYDNOR, Anthony & TAYLOR, Elizabeth. b [bond] 3 Jan 1736/37. Thomas Edwards (sec.), GROOM WAS A SON OF WM. AND CATHERINE SYDNOR WHO GAVE THEIR CONSENT. REALLY???????? Headley does give a caveat by adding, [The Chinn Book, p. 274, gives groom's father as Fortunatus Sydnor" And yes, in this case--and I know I have not always found this book to be reliable--The Chinn book is correct. Or, at I least I agree with it, and they did apparently look at the ORIGINAL CONSENT, which I did too, which says this (my transcript): "Sir, I desire you grant license for a marriage intended between Anthony Sydnor & [INTERLINED "OUR DAUGHTER") Elizabeth Taylor you'll Oblige your Humble Serv'ts" and signed by both William Sydnor and Catherine Sydnor (not by mark.) and dated 2 January 1736 (1737 N.S.) Thomas Edwards, clerk of the court, countersigned it. William Sydnor was the step-father of Elizabeth Taylor, not her biological father, hence the reason his wife Catherine--Elizabeths biological mother--also gave her consent. Since Elizabeth was born in 1722, she was only 15 years old (barely) at this time, but of marriageable age. Had she been only 14, there would have been a lawful impediment to the marriage. All of which just goes to show, just because something is in print does make it true. And in all of our research, we should always strive to get the originals of ANYTHING. Or, Elizabeth Shown Mills, one of America's most renowned genealogists says, "TRUST NO ONE!" Your Humble Servant, Craig Kilby

For participants in the NN DNA group, please post here or send to me the following information about your NN Patriarchs (or Matriarchs): SURNAME, FirstName b yr-d yr NN county. I think this has much more info than a surname only list, and it is sufficient info to tie down the ancestor in a pretty compact format. I would put all of these in alphabetical order (that would be easy to scan by anyone) and I would add the names of our DNA participants who had that ancestor (so they will know to look for them on their match lists) Example: BARTLETT, Thomas c1705-1783 Richmond: James V Bartlett, Jr; James V Bartlett, Sr; David D Bartlett* * I'll have to think about this one. I know David D Bartlett did FF, he matches me, and he descends from Thomas. So he is also a known FF tester (but hasn't joined our NN project, yet) who is known to have a NN ancestor, so the NN Project members should also look for his name as a match) waddayathink? If all the DNA participants will do this, it will save me a lot of retyping and I can focus on arrangement. I'll try posting this list on this list serve from time to time. It will be good for everyone else on this list to see, and comment on the ones they know, if they want. I think this would be a good starting point that will give everyone on this list a good idea of the scope of this project (be it large or small). Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime!

Barbara You may order the Family Finder DNA test directly from our NN Project (look for a JOIN tab on the top row, and click on the N in the Dual Geographic Project) or from the FamilyTreeDNA home page. Jim - Sent from my iPhone - FaceTime! On Oct 20, 2012, at 1:44 PM, "karenhappuch" <karenhappuch@cox.net> wrote: > Uh? My surname is not NN. My NN surname, BRENT, ends at my grandmother. > Only a small portion of my tree is NN, but that includes 11 surnames. You > are going to get many times that from some participants. I'm sending for my > test tomorrow and assume I need to wait until results are in to join the > project. > Barbara