Yes, I agree, the original is expunged, but, have you compared the original Birth Index printing compared to the Online Birth Index? Adoptions cannot take place for six months. That is the law. All I know is that the adoption record I was researching was different on both. Actually, corresponding with others who were searching for records were the ones who told me that it was not unusual to find the original on the Birth Index that was published. ----- Original Message ----- From: Teresa <tshands@lv.rmci.net> To: <TXWILLIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 6:20 PM Subject: Re: [TXWILLIA] FW: Birth Records taken down from Web > > When I was adopted by my mother's second husband at the age of 6, a birth > certificate was issued by the state of TX with his name as my father, no > mention of the adoption. Legally, on paper, he was my father from the day I > was born. There is no record of my birth with the name of my natural father. > The original record of birth is expunged when someone is adopted. > Teresa > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Don Holland <holland@ix.netcom.com> > To: <TXWILLIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 3:58 PM > Subject: RE: [TXWILLIA] FW: Birth Records taken down from Web > > > How would the birth record show an adoption? I am curious. > > I have been wondering about these records and adoptions. I have had two > families where I have heard for years that the children were adopted but the > Texas Birth General Index shows the parents who I thought would be adopted > parents as the birth parents. Are these records by any chance manipulated > with when filed at birth/adoption to make it look like an adopted parent is > the birth parent? > Don > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anna Price [mailto:annaprice@compaq.net] > Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 3:47 PM > To: TXWILLIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [TXWILLIA] FW: Birth Records taken down from Web > > > I thought everyone should be aware of this. > > Thanks, > Anna Houston Price > Austin, TX > 512-231-0640 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: James Hollas [mailto:jameshollas@austin.rr.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 3:32 PM > To: AnnaPrice@compaq.net > Subject: Birth Records taken down from Web > > > Dear AGS Members, > Secretary Ginger Goetze passed this along for our members: > > Texas Birth Indexes. This page is temporarily unavailable. > > The Government Code permits indexes to be open records documents if the > fact > of adoption cannot be revealed. The Bureau of Vital Statistics has > identified > a possible case where the indexes may have assisted in the > identification of > an adoption. As part of the review process, we must evaluate the > existing > birth indexes to ensure compliance with the State law. Therefore, the > indexes > are temporarily unavailable until this review has been completed. It > could be > several months before the final review process is completed. > Ginger > > PS -- The pages are still available on RootsWeb.com where all can be > searched at once. -- james > > PPS -- Please note that my e-mail address has been changed to > jameshollas@austin.rr.com > > > >

My cousin is listed under her birth parents and adopted parents. Doris Moore djmoore@nb.net

When I was adopted by my mother's second husband at the age of 6, a birth certificate was issued by the state of TX with his name as my father, no mention of the adoption. Legally, on paper, he was my father from the day I was born. There is no record of my birth with the name of my natural father. The original record of birth is expunged when someone is adopted. Teresa ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Holland <holland@ix.netcom.com> To: <TXWILLIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 3:58 PM Subject: RE: [TXWILLIA] FW: Birth Records taken down from Web How would the birth record show an adoption? I am curious. I have been wondering about these records and adoptions. I have had two families where I have heard for years that the children were adopted but the Texas Birth General Index shows the parents who I thought would be adopted parents as the birth parents. Are these records by any chance manipulated with when filed at birth/adoption to make it look like an adopted parent is the birth parent? Don -----Original Message----- From: Anna Price [mailto:annaprice@compaq.net] Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 3:47 PM To: TXWILLIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [TXWILLIA] FW: Birth Records taken down from Web I thought everyone should be aware of this. Thanks, Anna Houston Price Austin, TX 512-231-0640 -----Original Message----- From: James Hollas [mailto:jameshollas@austin.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 3:32 PM To: AnnaPrice@compaq.net Subject: Birth Records taken down from Web Dear AGS Members, Secretary Ginger Goetze passed this along for our members: Texas Birth Indexes. This page is temporarily unavailable. The Government Code permits indexes to be open records documents if the fact of adoption cannot be revealed. The Bureau of Vital Statistics has identified a possible case where the indexes may have assisted in the identification of an adoption. As part of the review process, we must evaluate the existing birth indexes to ensure compliance with the State law. Therefore, the indexes are temporarily unavailable until this review has been completed. It could be several months before the final review process is completed. Ginger PS -- The pages are still available on RootsWeb.com where all can be searched at once. -- james PPS -- Please note that my e-mail address has been changed to jameshollas@austin.rr.com

How would the birth record show an adoption? I am curious. I have been wondering about these records and adoptions. I have had two families where I have heard for years that the children were adopted but the Texas Birth General Index shows the parents who I thought would be adopted parents as the birth parents. Are these records by any chance manipulated with when filed at birth/adoption to make it look like an adopted parent is the birth parent? Don -----Original Message----- From: Anna Price [mailto:annaprice@compaq.net] Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 3:47 PM To: TXWILLIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [TXWILLIA] FW: Birth Records taken down from Web I thought everyone should be aware of this. Thanks, Anna Houston Price Austin, TX 512-231-0640 -----Original Message----- From: James Hollas [mailto:jameshollas@austin.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 3:32 PM To: AnnaPrice@compaq.net Subject: Birth Records taken down from Web Dear AGS Members, Secretary Ginger Goetze passed this along for our members: Texas Birth Indexes. This page is temporarily unavailable. The Government Code permits indexes to be open records documents if the fact of adoption cannot be revealed. The Bureau of Vital Statistics has identified a possible case where the indexes may have assisted in the identification of an adoption. As part of the review process, we must evaluate the existing birth indexes to ensure compliance with the State law. Therefore, the indexes are temporarily unavailable until this review has been completed. It could be several months before the final review process is completed. Ginger PS -- The pages are still available on RootsWeb.com where all can be searched at once. -- james PPS -- Please note that my e-mail address has been changed to jameshollas@austin.rr.com

When a child in Texas is adopted in a closed adoption, the original record isn't expunged. It's just taken out of the recordkeeping process, put in a super-secret vault and isn't part of the adopted person's birth records, which show the adoptive parents as the ones giving birth to the child. My daughter and son's birth records look just like I gave birth to them, even though they were each several months old when we adopted them 27 and 28 years ago. Under some circumstances, original records can be opened to the adopted person.

Useful guide on how to site sources, from the Board for Certification of Genealogists. Teresa http://www.bcgcertification.org/skbld959.html

I for one am very glad Ric brought the copyright issue up on this list. Had it been on a Hamilton Co. list, I would never have had some of the answers I have wondered about when I would copy something from a book. Thanks Ric. Dolores At 06:29 PM 11/5/00 -0800, you wrote: >Rebecca, > Threatening to unsubscribe Ric from the list seems a little extreme. The discussion we were having dealt with copyright issues, not just the Hamilton Co Cemetery records, which is of interest to anyone who does genealogical research. No one else seemed to be offended by the thread except you. > > Teresa > >

Rebecca, Threatening to unsubscribe Ric from the list seems a little extreme. The discussion we were having dealt with copyright issues, not just the Hamilton Co Cemetery records, which is of interest to anyone who does genealogical research. No one else seemed to be offended by the thread except you. Teresa

I thought everyone should be aware of this. Thanks, Anna Houston Price Austin, TX 512-231-0640 -----Original Message----- From: James Hollas [mailto:jameshollas@austin.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 3:32 PM To: AnnaPrice@compaq.net Subject: Birth Records taken down from Web Dear AGS Members, Secretary Ginger Goetze passed this along for our members: Texas Birth Indexes. This page is temporarily unavailable. The Government Code permits indexes to be open records documents if the fact of adoption cannot be revealed. The Bureau of Vital Statistics has identified a possible case where the indexes may have assisted in the identification of an adoption. As part of the review process, we must evaluate the existing birth indexes to ensure compliance with the State law. Therefore, the indexes are temporarily unavailable until this review has been completed. It could be several months before the final review process is completed. Ginger PS -- The pages are still available on RootsWeb.com where all can be searched at once. -- james PPS -- Please note that my e-mail address has been changed to jameshollas@austin.rr.com

If this works it'll mean we'll be able to do it for ANY county, Rebecca. So lets all of us think a bit more BEYOND the immediate and limited boundaries. Besides, I asked everyone to report to me privately and most have. Others have mistakingly posted to the list. As for me, I joined this list so I could not only get information, but also share it freely. Ric Rebecca Osborne wrote: > > A thread on Hamilton County is _completely_ off topic for this list. > > Rebecca > list administrator

If you contact me privately and NOT on the lists, I'll see to it that cemetery information gets online for Hamilton County "ONLY" if people want to contribute about their relatives in this format: Cemetery: Name on tombstone: Full name: Date of Birth and place: Date of Death and place: Name of spouse Date of Marriage and place Father: Mother: Of course, this would certainly be in a different format from HCGS' Cemetery Book--and only their FORMAT of public information is copyrighted.

A thread on Hamilton County is _completely_ off topic for this list. Rebecca list administrator

Was the Ray spelled "Ray" or "Rhea"? Don Holland -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia Williams [mailto:cwilliams6@austin.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 4:32 PM To: TXWILLIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [TXWILLIA] Davis I am wondering if any of the davis family that has been mentioned might have a female davis that married a ray and had a daughter named Fannie Jane Ray. My greatgrandfather Charles Dunhan Shafer maried Fannie in Williamson Co, Thanks, Cynthia Williams, Smithville, Tx.

List, Ric & Duane: What is the point of genealogical study and writings if they cannot be shared? MOST folks that write these are doing so to share this information for study and advancement of "the cause". Hoarding and hiding genealogical information does no one any good and if proper credit is given, it should be shared. I personally have bought genealogical books because the information was shared with me first and I wanted to have the original in my own library and also to see what else might be in there that would advance my own personal study. Where do people think the LDS get all their data? Even though all this information will someday be available on the internet, books are not going out of style and will still be sold. After all, most genealogical information, including cemetery information, is public record to begin with. Just another person's opinion, Lynda ---------- > From: duanewin <duanewin@gateway.net> > To: TXWILLIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [TXWILLIA] Cemetery Records > Date: Saturday, November 04, 2000 10:23 PM > > Ric; > I have seen where people give data from published book which is copyrighted > and have gotten the impression that as long as credit for the source is > given, > it seem to be OK

The following message was sent to me and below it you can see my response. Don't misunderstand, my intentions are not to undermine the hard work of those that contributed time and effort to complete the cemetery record books. In fact, I think everyone that helped, in all aspects, should get credit for their long hours of dedication to genealogy and history of Hamilton County. My ancestors have only been in the Hamilton area since 1880 and I know many of yours have been there even longer. Whatever records we can dig up should be for anyone interested or involved in the county. from: Betty Cole Wienke (in the following you'll notice that only Pittman and Hengst show credit for the Cemetery Records of Hamilton County, TX) > Ric, I checked "Volume 2, Cemetery Records of Hamilton County, TX. Pittman > and Hengst, published 1996, Honey Creek Cemetery, pages 769-795. Directions: > From Hamilton's square take Hwy. 281 north about 10 miles to Olin, turn left > on F.M. 219. Travel 3 miles north on F.M. 219, turn right on Co. Rd. 120. > Travel 2 miles on Co. Rd, cemetery is on the right. Open gate and go about > 1/2 mile to cemetery. Cemetery is barely visible from road." > > Ric, if you will send me your mailing address, I will scan and land mail the > pages of Honey Creek Cemetery to you. Then the following came from Carlian Pittman: > > Ric: The book Cemetery Records of Hamilton County, Texas is > > copywrighted. Betty Weinke is not allowed to copy the pages from the > > book on Honey Creek Cemetery and send them to you. > > Carlian Massingill Pittman > > President > > Hamilton County Genealogy Scoiety Then my response: > Carlian, > > I know she can't copy the book by scanning the information or using a > xerox machine to copy it (because of the copyright), but she can read it > and tell me what she read by sending it either e-mail or snail mail. > > Ric So..... all this boils down to one thing. Should anyone and everyone have access to the cemetery records of the county? AND, if someone were to buy the book, do they then have the right to put the information on the internet? After all, they bought the book. It then belongs to them. Let me know what ya'll think. I already know what some of you are going to say but I want to hear from more of you. Perhaps some of you that actually did the work on the books but have never gotten credit. Fred (Ric) Gordon Williamson Co., Texas By the way folks. Just so you know I do have SOME interest in Hamilton, though small, I went to school there but dropped out of high school in 1962 and joined the Navy. I haven't always been very smart. :^)

Hello, Ric, The way I understand it, a copyright is to prevent someone from publishing information in a book as their own, it has nothing to do with sending pages of it to someone else to read. She is not publishing the pages, nor even posting it online, and what little she did quote was thoroughly cited. People quote from published sources all the time, and as long as the original work is properly cited, there shouldn't be a problem. Teresa ----- Original Message ----- From: Ric <fdg@flash.net> To: <TXWILLIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 9:56 PM Subject: [TXWILLIA] Cemetery Records The following message was sent to me and below it you can see my response. Don't misunderstand, my intentions are not to undermine the hard work of those that contributed time and effort to complete the cemetery record books. In fact, I think everyone that helped, in all aspects, should get credit for their long hours of dedication to genealogy and history of Hamilton County. My ancestors have only been in the Hamilton area since 1880 and I know many of yours have been there even longer. Whatever records we can dig up should be for anyone interested or involved in the county. from: Betty Cole Wienke (in the following you'll notice that only Pittman and Hengst show credit for the Cemetery Records of Hamilton County, TX) > Ric, I checked "Volume 2, Cemetery Records of Hamilton County, TX. Pittman > and Hengst, published 1996, Honey Creek Cemetery, pages 769-795. Directions: > From Hamilton's square take Hwy. 281 north about 10 miles to Olin, turn left > on F.M. 219. Travel 3 miles north on F.M. 219, turn right on Co. Rd. 120. > Travel 2 miles on Co. Rd, cemetery is on the right. Open gate and go about > 1/2 mile to cemetery. Cemetery is barely visible from road." > > Ric, if you will send me your mailing address, I will scan and land mail the > pages of Honey Creek Cemetery to you. Then the following came from Carlian Pittman: > > Ric: The book Cemetery Records of Hamilton County, Texas is > > copywrighted. Betty Weinke is not allowed to copy the pages from the > > book on Honey Creek Cemetery and send them to you. > > Carlian Massingill Pittman > > President > > Hamilton County Genealogy Scoiety Then my response: > Carlian, > > I know she can't copy the book by scanning the information or using a > xerox machine to copy it (because of the copyright), but she can read it > and tell me what she read by sending it either e-mail or snail mail. > > Ric So..... all this boils down to one thing. Should anyone and everyone have access to the cemetery records of the county? AND, if someone were to buy the book, do they then have the right to put the information on the internet? After all, they bought the book. It then belongs to them. Let me know what ya'll think. I already know what some of you are going to say but I want to hear from more of you. Perhaps some of you that actually did the work on the books but have never gotten credit. Fred (Ric) Gordon Williamson Co., Texas By the way folks. Just so you know I do have SOME interest in Hamilton, though small, I went to school there but dropped out of high school in 1962 and joined the Navy. I haven't always been very smart. :^)

Ric, I think as long as a credit is given to the material, writer and where it originally came from, there is not a problem. This usually generates me to try to locate a copy of the book so that I HAVE a copy of my own, so it is still benefiting the original author/compiler. Jackie -----Original Message----- From: Ric [mailto:fdg@flash.net] Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 11:56 PM To: TXWILLIA-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [TXWILLIA] Cemetery Records The following message was sent to me and below it you can see my response. Don't misunderstand, my intentions are not to undermine the hard work of those that contributed time and effort to complete the cemetery record books. In fact, I think everyone that helped, in all aspects, should get credit for their long hours of dedication to genealogy and history of Hamilton County. My ancestors have only been in the Hamilton area since 1880 and I know many of yours have been there even longer. Whatever records we can dig up should be for anyone interested or involved in the county. from: Betty Cole Wienke (in the following you'll notice that only Pittman and Hengst show credit for the Cemetery Records of Hamilton County, TX) > Ric, I checked "Volume 2, Cemetery Records of Hamilton County, TX. Pittman > and Hengst, published 1996, Honey Creek Cemetery, pages 769-795. Directions: > From Hamilton's square take Hwy. 281 north about 10 miles to Olin, turn left > on F.M. 219. Travel 3 miles north on F.M. 219, turn right on Co. Rd. 120. > Travel 2 miles on Co. Rd, cemetery is on the right. Open gate and go about > 1/2 mile to cemetery. Cemetery is barely visible from road." > > Ric, if you will send me your mailing address, I will scan and land mail the > pages of Honey Creek Cemetery to you. Then the following came from Carlian Pittman: > > Ric: The book Cemetery Records of Hamilton County, Texas is > > copywrighted. Betty Weinke is not allowed to copy the pages from the > > book on Honey Creek Cemetery and send them to you. > > Carlian Massingill Pittman > > President > > Hamilton County Genealogy Scoiety Then my response: > Carlian, > > I know she can't copy the book by scanning the information or using a > xerox machine to copy it (because of the copyright), but she can read it > and tell me what she read by sending it either e-mail or snail mail. > > Ric So..... all this boils down to one thing. Should anyone and everyone have access to the cemetery records of the county? AND, if someone were to buy the book, do they then have the right to put the information on the internet? After all, they bought the book. It then belongs to them. Let me know what ya'll think. I already know what some of you are going to say but I want to hear from more of you. Perhaps some of you that actually did the work on the books but have never gotten credit. Fred (Ric) Gordon Williamson Co., Texas By the way folks. Just so you know I do have SOME interest in Hamilton, though small, I went to school there but dropped out of high school in 1962 and joined the Navy. I haven't always been very smart. :^)

Ric; I have seen where people give data from published book which is copyrighted and have gotten the impression that as long as credit for the source is given, it seem to be OK See it many times on the Hunt List 1 BUT I am not a copyright specialist nor a author ! Just one persons opinion ? Duane ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ric" <fdg@flash.net> To: <TXWILLIA-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 9:56 PM Subject: [TXWILLIA] Cemetery Records > The following message was sent to me and below it you can see my > response. Don't misunderstand, my intentions are not to undermine the > hard work of those that contributed time and effort to complete the > cemetery record books. In fact, I think everyone that helped, in all > aspects, should get credit for their long hours of dedication to > genealogy and history of Hamilton County. My ancestors have only been in > the Hamilton area since 1880 and I know many of yours have been there > even longer. Whatever records we can dig up should be for anyone > interested or involved in the county. > > > from: Betty Cole Wienke > (in the following you'll notice that only Pittman and Hengst show > credit for the Cemetery Records of Hamilton County, TX) > > > Ric, I checked "Volume 2, Cemetery Records of Hamilton County, TX. Pittman > > and Hengst, published 1996, Honey Creek Cemetery, pages 769-795. Directions: > > From Hamilton's square take Hwy. 281 north about 10 miles to Olin, turn left > > on F.M. 219. Travel 3 miles north on F.M. 219, turn right on Co. Rd. 120. > > Travel 2 miles on Co. Rd, cemetery is on the right. Open gate and go about > > 1/2 mile to cemetery. Cemetery is barely visible from road." > > > > Ric, if you will send me your mailing address, I will scan and land mail the > > pages of Honey Creek Cemetery to you. > > Then the following came from Carlian Pittman: > > > > Ric: The book Cemetery Records of Hamilton County, Texas is > > > copywrighted. Betty Weinke is not allowed to copy the pages from the > > > book on Honey Creek Cemetery and send them to you. > > > Carlian Massingill Pittman > > > President > > > Hamilton County Genealogy Scoiety > > Then my response: > > > Carlian, > > > > I know she can't copy the book by scanning the information or using a > > xerox machine to copy it (because of the copyright), but she can read it > > and tell me what she read by sending it either e-mail or snail mail. > > > > Ric > > So..... all this boils down to one thing. Should anyone and everyone > have access to the cemetery records of the county? AND, if someone were > to buy the book, do they then have the right to put the information on > the internet? After all, they bought the book. It then belongs to them. > > Let me know what ya'll think. I already know what some of you are going > to say but I want to hear from more of you. Perhaps some of you that > actually did the work on the books but have never gotten credit. > > Fred (Ric) Gordon > Williamson Co., Texas > > By the way folks. Just so you know I do have SOME interest in Hamilton, > though small, I went to school there but dropped out of high school in > 1962 and joined the Navy. I haven't always been very smart. :^) > >

I just noticed that Land of Good Water is being auctioned on ebay. The auction will end tomorrow at about 3:00 p.m. CST. If you want to take a look, just click on: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=481685282 I've never sold anything on ebay--just figured someone on this list might be interested. Best always, Linda "We need 4 hugs a day for survival, 8 hugs a day for maintenance, 12 hugs a day for growth." Virginia Slatir

Are you connected to the solomon Barnes that married Amanda Cook, I believe his mother was an AKE? Lynette -----Original Message----- From: LutherMarie@aol.com <LutherMarie@aol.com> To: TXWILLIA-L@rootsweb.com <TXWILLIA-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [TXWILLIA] Williamson Co. Help >I have Williams data for Williamson Co TX...many of them came from Washington >Co AR...will exchange data and share what I have. Some of my Williams >connections are Barnes, Ake, Robbins, Hanna, and more >Gayle H. Cloud in Little Rock AR