There is no record of a Hardin - Watson marriage in Red River co. between 1846 and 1903. ----- Original Message ----- From: <DaaazyHardin@aol.com> To: <txredriv@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [TXREDRIV] Marriage in 1853 or 1854?HARDIN/WATSON Hello, I am looking for a marriage that may have taken place between my great grand parents: John H. Hardin and Roxcina P. Watson. It may have been later in 1853 or sometime in 1854? John and Roxcina lived in Grayson county during at least 1854 through1860. John's first son, John William was born at old Preston in Grayson county on Jan 1,1855.. Dianne Hardin in California. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TXREDRIV-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/862 - Release Date: 6/22/2007 3:04 PM

(Just a note of interest in RR Co) I knew that Wm Stout was already on the bank of the Delaware Creek went Clark came to the area that became Clarksville. I would have thought that by this 1860 census that Stout would have been a has been and living on another creek bank some where. According to the census, he still had a lot of land and worth total over $22,000.00 which was a lot of money then. I don't know what land was worth back then but my guess would be $1 to $2 per acre, make Stout still having at least 9,000 acres. Jim G ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Giddens To: Jim Giddens Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 12:44 PM Subject: Stout in RR Co 1860 census Value Red River Co, Tx Census 1860 Land Personal 108 Wm B. Stout 55 m Farmer 18,000 5,450 VA Matilda 39 f SC William 17 m RRCo TX George 13 m RRCo TX Mary 9 f RRCo TX Benjamin 7 m RRCo TX Wm Byers 23 m Laborer MO

In most Texas counties (at least a few years ago), if the original marriage certificate was not picked up, the first descendant to come and ask for it, gets it - free of charge. I presume you could also ask for it by telephone or mail. I picked up my daughter's, my own, my parents, two sets of grandparents --- and they let me go ahead and have those of three uncles. Trevia Wooster Beverly Houston, Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sybil Slavin" <sib520@juno.com> To: <txredriv@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 7:28 PM Subject: Re: [TXREDRIV] TXREDRIV Digest, Vol 2, Issue 122 > For the individual who asked about marriage bonds, I went to Clarksville > many years ago and asked to see the book the marriage was posted in/ The > lady in the courthouse said they had some marriage certificates that had > not been picked up and they may be in a drawer there. I looked and low > and behold there was a beautiful ceritficate with the number 394 in red > on the back. I assume it meant it was that number up to that time. It was > Dec, 1899. I dont know how busy they may be at the courthouse, but worth > asking someone to look up the date and individuals you want. Sibyl > Slavin, Choctaw, Oklahoma > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TXREDRIV-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For the individual who asked about marriage bonds, I went to Clarksville many years ago and asked to see the book the marriage was posted in/ The lady in the courthouse said they had some marriage certificates that had not been picked up and they may be in a drawer there. I looked and low and behold there was a beautiful ceritficate with the number 394 in red on the back. I assume it meant it was that number up to that time. It was Dec, 1899. I dont know how busy they may be at the courthouse, but worth asking someone to look up the date and individuals you want. Sibyl Slavin, Choctaw, Oklahoma

Red River Co group: I am like a little boy in the toy store. I can not believe that I have exchanged e-mails with Jesse Stiles of Clarksville Tiger legend and famous for football and coaching with Texas Tech and other colleges. He still does a little part-time work with the coaches (visiting coaches) at Tech. I got in contact with him not for football but because of the genealogy connection with the Giddens and Stiles that goes back prior to 1850. The pioneer and Texas Rev War veteran, John Stiles, is buried at the old Concord (Giddens) Cemetery about 20 feet from my great great great Grandfather Giddens. The two men were neighbors (White Rock & Concord) and there were at least two Giddens-Stiles marriages. A distant Watson cousin of mine works at Tech and knows him, is how I got in contact with him. Of course I do remember all the times I have heard his name as a football player at Clarksville. I am anxious to visit with him some time in the future. He lettered 5 years with the high school team, would have been 6 years but he got his leg broke during the 8th grade. I hope to meet with him face to face at some point in the future when he is in the area and tour the back road cemeteries of White Rock and Concord. Jim Giddens Paris, Tx

I doubt that there was any marriage bond. A marriage bond is when someone posts a bond to be sure that the bride (or groom) does not back out of the marriage. Typically used in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. I don't recall them being used in Texas, at least not regularly. Marriage licenses for Red River County date from 1845. An excellent book that should be use is "Marriage Laws in the Unites States, 1887-1906" by S.N.D. North You can obtain this book from Desmond Walls Allen **** of Arkansas Research, PO Box 303, Conway AR 72033 **** Desmond will be one of the speakers at the upcoming Angelina College Genealogy Conference - still time to register - http://www.angelina.edu/genealogy.htm Trevia Wooster Beverly Houston, Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: <NANAREB@aol.com> To: <txredriv@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 8:38 AM Subject: Re: [TXREDRIV] Marriage bond question In a message dated 6/25/07 9:25:22 PM Central Standard Time, TChris56@aol.com writes: Does the courthouse in Clarksville have marriage bonds for around 1899? What is a marriage bond? .··-.¸.-··. (`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´) .··-.¸.-··. `·. .·´ «..* Edith *..» `·. .·` (¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TXREDRIV-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In a message dated 6/25/07 9:25:22 PM Central Standard Time, TChris56@aol.com writes: Does the courthouse in Clarksville have marriage bonds for around 1899? What is a marriage bond? .··-.¸.-··. (`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´) .··-.¸.-··. `·. .·´ «..* Edith *..» `·. .·` (¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Does the courthouse in Clarksville have marriage bonds for around 1899? If so is there any one willing to look one up for me? I would be happy to pay a fee and any expenses. Carol ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

> >> In one census, my ggfather and children were listed, but ten years later >> they had disappeared. I found them by chance reading the entire census >> and finding GW Bates with my ggfather's children. Undoubtedly, the census >> taker wrote out GW Bates rather than GW Butts, my ggfather, who could not >> read nor write as many of his earlier documents were signed with an"X"; >> later he learned to write his name as it appears on some later documents. >> Billy >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ben Cooper" <bcooper@mc2k.com> >> To: <txredriv@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 11:34 AM >> Subject: Re: [TXREDRIV] Census Records Question >> >> >>> Joyce, it makes a difference if you are talking about a maternal or >>> paternal >>> DNA print match. >>> >>> The paternal DNA print test is on the Y-Chromosome which is unique to >>> the >>> male and is passed from father to son generation after generation and >>> changes rarely, like on the average one-marker every 500-years as such >>> is >>> very useful in identifying familial kinships going back through the >>> years. >>> If you cannot find your most recent common ancestor back to 1850 it >>> becomes >>> much more difficult, if not impossible beyond that. If you have not used >>> the >>> message boards in genealogy.com, you may try that. >>> >>> I have found numerous irregularities with census records which compounds >>> the >>> problems when searching census records. I found one ancestor in RRC >>> where >>> the first name was listed as the last name in the 1860 USC. I found it >>> only >>> by doing a page by page search of the census. >>> >>> If it is a materal match this is another issue. I have yet to find a >>> common >>> ancestor with 20-25 mtDNA print matches with my mother's DNA print >>> withother >>> families. I have not gotten off the ground with this type of match >>> research. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> H. Ben Cooper >>> Bella Vista, Arkansas >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joyce A King" <jkin467@juno.com> >>> To: <txredriv@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 9:34 AM >>> Subject: Re: [TXREDRIV] Census Records Question >>> >>> >>> A lady and I have connected our gr grandparents through a DNA project, >>> however, through years of searching and every different spelling of >>> their >>> names, we have never found them on a census record anywhere--I even >>> hired a >>> professional to do the census check and he couldn't find anything - so, >>> my >>> question is, why would there be people that never show up on a census >>> record? Has anyone else had this problem? Were the census records so >>> inaccurate that this could happen? Anyone have any opinions on this? >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> TXREDRIV-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >

In a message dated 6/22/07 5:06:57 PM Central Daylight Time, black@1starnet.com writes: Edith, What was your great aunt's name? I have a good bit of Bagwell history that I have collected through the years. My people have been at Bagwell or north of Bagwell since before Texas was a republic. Sharon The family was Booker. My grandmother was Ella Genevieve Booker, her sister (my great-aunt) was Louise Booker. The father was Waller T. (or Walter) and their mother was Mary Ella Baker Stone. I used to visit the old homestead in Bagwell when I was little, but it burned to the ground several years ago. Both my grandmother and her sister ended up in Dallas, but I can't even find where my grandmother married my grandfather, Amos Luther Stone, Sr. My dad was born in Red River county (Amos Luther Stone, Jr.). Supposedly Waller T. (or Walter T.) is buried at Old Shamrock but we did not find his grave when we were there week before last. .··-.¸.-··. (`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´) .··-.¸.-··. `·. .·´ «..* Edith *..» `·. .·` (¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸) In loving memory of Elizabeth B. Post August 8, 2006 Co-Coordinator: Heartmade Blessings Comfortghan Program "Caring Hearts, Touching Lives, One Stitch at a Time" _http://www.heartmadeblessings.org/_ (http://www.heartmadeblessings.org/) A Member of CrochetList Admin ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

I have known of teachers in Red River Co. area that taught with a teachers' certificate. They passed a test of some sort, no college. Marilyn ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Edith, What was your great aunt's name? I have a good bit of Bagwell history that I have collected through the years. My people have been at Bagwell or north of Bagwell since before Texas was a republic. Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: <NANAREB@aol.com> To: <TXREDRIV@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:05 PM Subject: [TXREDRIV] Colleges in Red River County/1907 My great-aunt was born and raised in Bagwell, and ended up in Dallas as a teacher. She was born in 1887, so does anybody know if there was a college around Clarksville in around 1907? She disappears off the census reports until much later. Edith/Duncanville ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TXREDRIV-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.8.15/847 - Release Date: 6/12/2007 9:42 PM

There was a Woman's college in the 1860s at Boston which moved to Clarksville Red River County. Rosalie/New Boston In a message dated 6/22/2007 1:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, jimgidd@suddenlink.net writes: Edith, The McKenzie College just out of Clarksville closed for good in 1871 after struggling during the Civil War. I don't know the year, but Texas A&M Commerce, was East Texas State Teachers College in the 50s and many from Clarksville when to school there. Many went to PJC first. Not sure when the school started. I also do know what education was required of a teacher in the early years. I know my grandfather was teaching in Red River County country schools from 1900 to about 1920. I have nerve heard anything about his own education except being referred to as a educated man, probably finished high school, or at least could read and had a talent for teaching. Just my thoughts. Jim Giddens Paris, Tx ----- Original Message ----- From: <BBIRDSWIFE@aol.com> To: <txredriv@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [TXREDRIV] Colleges in Red River County/1907 >I don't know. I know there was Paris Junior College but I think much >later > than 1907. If you knew the school district in Dallas that she taught at, > then you can contact them to get her teaching record. Also, I would > think maybe > her obit might give a clue to where she attended teaching college. > > Debra ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

My suggestion would be for you to contact Mike McCrary of Dekalb. I am sure he is in the telephone book. I really believe he would have the answer for you. Rosalie/New Boston In a message dated 6/22/2007 12:05:56 P.M. Central Standard Time, NANAREB@aol.com writes: My great-aunt was born and raised in Bagwell, and ended up in Dallas as a teacher. She was born in 1887, so does anybody know if there was a college around Clarksville in around 1907? She disappears off the census reports until much later. Edith/Duncanville ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Guess I shouldn't have believed the first news story. It's always a good idea to check further. Bob Merriman

In a message dated 6/22/07 11:46:53 AM Central Standard Time, BBIRDSWIFE@aol.com writes: Also, if she was in the Texas Retired Teachers Association....that is an idea too. Never thought of that! Thanks for the idea! .··-.¸.-··. (`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´) .··-.¸.-··. `·. .·´ «..* Edith *..» `·. .·` (¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸) http://new.photos.yahoo.com/nanarebaol/albums/ Co-Coordinator: Heartmade Blessings Comfortghan Program "Caring Hearts, Touching Lives, One Stitch at a Time" _http://www.heartmadeblessings.org/_ (http://www.heartmadeblessings.org/) A Member of CrochetList Admin ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Also, if she was in the Texas Retired Teachers Association....that is an idea too. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Edith, The McKenzie College just out of Clarksville closed for good in 1871 after struggling during the Civil War. I don't know the year, but Texas A&M Commerce, was East Texas State Teachers College in the 50s and many from Clarksville when to school there. Many went to PJC first. Not sure when the school started. I also do know what education was required of a teacher in the early years. I know my grandfather was teaching in Red River County country schools from 1900 to about 1920. I have nerve heard anything about his own education except being referred to as a educated man, probably finished high school, or at least could read and had a talent for teaching. Just my thoughts. Jim Giddens Paris, Tx ----- Original Message ----- From: <BBIRDSWIFE@aol.com> To: <txredriv@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [TXREDRIV] Colleges in Red River County/1907 >I don't know. I know there was Paris Junior College but I think much >later > than 1907. If you knew the school district in Dallas that she taught at, > then you can contact them to get her teaching record. Also, I would > think maybe > her obit might give a clue to where she attended teaching college. > > Debra > > > > ************************************** See what's free at > http://www.aol.com. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TXREDRIV-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In a message dated 6/22/07 11:16:55 AM Central Standard Time, BBIRDSWIFE@aol.com writes: If you knew the school district in Dallas that she taught at, then you can contact them to get her teaching record. Also, I would think maybe her obit might give a clue to where she attended teaching college. I do know where she taught, so that's an idea. By the time she passed away, those that knew where she went to school, ect. had passed away, and I don't even think there was one. Edith/Duncanville ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

I don't know. I know there was Paris Junior College but I think much later than 1907. If you knew the school district in Dallas that she taught at, then you can contact them to get her teaching record. Also, I would think maybe her obit might give a clue to where she attended teaching college. Debra ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.