Wow, if I can do it anyone can! 40 lists eeeekkk I would go crazy:)) I just went to Rootsweb.com, mailing lists, states, TEXAS, Bexar Co. and there was the contact. I hope they hear from everyone just on principle. This could happen on any subject that someone didn't like. Jeri ----- Original Message ----- From: "g.winters" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 11:57 PM Subject: Fw: Why is Sarah blocked because > Smiling, if I worried about excess mail, lol, I would not subscribe to > more > than 40 mailing lists. I love e-mail. Sure better than an empty screen. > Would you mind explaining to the ones here who are not familiar with > talking to the list administrators about how to do this? > G. Winters > PS, thank you very much. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "George & Jeri Bawden" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 1:41 AM > Subject: Re: Why is Sarah blocked because > > >> Sorry to add to your excess of mail but this is what I sent to the list >> administrator. Just wanted to share! Blessings!!! >> >> I pay for all the Ancestry.com services but one, enjoy my Rootsweb Review >> and belong to several mailing lists. Most of them send mail once in a > while >> if at all. When the Bexar line started having information shared by >> Sarah >> (I have no idea who she or any of the others are) I was really excited >> and >> interested. My family has a lot of history in Texas most of whom were > first >> generation from Sicily, Ireland and Scotland. My Great Grandmother's > family >> were Tejanos who fought for Texas at the Alamo. I don't understand why a >> few people were able to cut off the most interesting flow of messages >> that > I >> have seen. >> >> Also, I am the wife of a Mason, the granddaughter of a Mason, the great >> niece of three Masons, the daughter in law of a Mason and an Eastern Star >> and the mother in law of a Rainbow Worthy Advisor. The mail from the > Mason >> who was furious with Sarah and jumped at the chance of meeting with the > news >> from Wilson County is not my idea of a Mason. He really should have been >> first in line to get this mess taken care of. >> >> I hope you and whoever else makes these rules reconsiders the blocking of >> someone who I presume, until now, has been just another one of us who is >> trying to learn about our history. Thank you. Jeri Alessandro James > Bawden >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "g.winters" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 11:18 PM >> Subject: Why is Sarah blocked because >> >> >> > She is. If you would like to have her able to post, then tell the >> > administrator of this mailing list. I have! Just go to Rootsweb, find >> > this mailing list, there is a place somewhere in there to comment to >> > the >> > list administrator. I started at about 11 oclock with 13 private and >> > publid messages, most of which were about the Alamo Masonic Cemetery >> > and >> > Sarah's fight to get it cleaned. I just made it to the end for now, > mail >> > kept coming and coming and coming. It is now 1:14. and I am almost > brain >> > dead. And more came in as I am writing this message. >> > G. Winters >> > >> > >> > ============================== >> > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >> > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: >> > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> ============================== >> Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the >> areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >> Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >> > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > >

In a message dated 6/12/2005 12:58:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Hi, Linda I have forwarded your questions to Sarah. I am sorry she is not allowed to post on here anymore. She can answer your questions. G. Winters Can anyone here explain to me why Sarah is not allowed to post? This is America, isn't it...what crime did she commit? Seriously, do any of you have an answer other than she filled your mailboxes with genealogy related issues? Sorry but I just do not get it. Explanation please???? Sam

Someone is already naive enough to actually think that I would think coathangers would be acceptable dowsers in the 'scientific community'. Yeah right, hold on while I put away my crystal ball and tea leaves, fellas, and find my ouiga board. ;-) I'm an experienced dowser. I know it isn't an accepted practice, that isn't the point. I will get whatever equipment that may be necessary to verify the existence or non existence of the graves, hire whatever consultant I need to hire, and frankly I would be VERY happy to be proven wrong in this case. I've been dowsing just in Strangers' Row to try to approximate all of the missing graves, never even thought about elsewhere. Several of you have asked to learn more. Here is what I have on it in my files: LOCATING GRAVES The first time that I ever heard of dowsing for graves was in 1984 in the state of Indiana. They had moved the old folks home graveyard to make way for a road and there were no tombstones. How did they find the graves? They dowsed. How do you dowse you ask? Take two metal hangers and cut yourself an L shape from both. Go to a cemetery that you know of, and try it there first. If you can document this on film that would be great, and take several witnesses with you. Don't forget to let them try, though you may not want to give up the rods after you try it yourself a couple of times. Hold the hangers in front of you by the short ends, like you are ready to box someone, with the long ends sticking strait in front of you. You don't want to hold them firm, but not dangling from your fists either. Now, walk across a row of graves that you know are there. WOW! The first time is a shocker. The rods will cross in front of you at even intervals for each grave as you walk at a steady pace across them. If there are unmarked graves in the cem. walk across them too. Do you see how the rods will cross and identify the grave? Don't forget to take the video camera with you when you go out to the farm then. You want to record finding the graves, and you will need to make a grid map of where the graves lye. Using this method, you should be able to identify where all the graves in a cemetery lye. If the rods do the opposite, go out instead of crossing, BINGO!! You have water. I have had that happen once. Really shocked me. ~~~~~~ The Cemetery Collection Process. Written May 2002 by Renee L. Waring of ICM How to number the graves: Go to the front of the cemetery with the names facing you. Folks are usually buried with their heads facing west and their feet facing east, I suppose it is because when Jesus comes back again he will rise in the East and the dead will rise to greet him. If some of the stones are facing the other way, the bodies were still buried in the row that the stones are in with the head to the West. Go to the very left of the row. This will be your first grave to record (see "Dowsing" below). This grave is Number 1 in the Row of 1. If it is in a family plot (which is usually marked with four small stones at each corner) you would list it with a Plot number. Any other grave stones in that plot should have the same plot number, that way they can be ecognized as being buried with those family members. You continue to collected the rest of the cemetery in the same manner, always working left to right. Some questions that may arise: 1) What if some rows are shorter than others? Answer: Check to see if there are unmarked graves. Without the original grave layout plans the only way to tell without someone there that can tell you different is to dowse the ground. More on that later. If you find that there is an unmarked grave, then you will need to assign it a number. You want the grave yard to work like a grid. 2) What if the grave yard is broken up into several areas? Answer: Break it into sections and give it a Section Letter such as A, B, C. A road is something that would break it into sections A and Section B. Use your best judgment on how it is to be broken up. If the grave yard is divided into several sections, this is how your numbering system would go: The first grave in the first section: Section A, Row 1, Number 1, Plot 1 The second one in the first sect: Section A, Row 1, Number 2, Plot 1 The 15th grave in the 3rd sect: Section C, Row 1, Number 15, Plot 28 I hope this makes sense. 3) What if someone asks me what I am doing? Answer: Let the local police department and newspaper know you are working in the area. Perhaps you can get some coverage for your group. If someone asks you what you are doing, tell them, then pump them for information. That is how we found the single grave on the mountain in Clearfield County. Folks that care enough to stop and ask you may just want to jump in to help as well. Perhaps if you are working at a local church in their grave yard contact them before hand, they can get someone out there with some information who also wants to help. It also lets them know you are there working. They should appreciate the fact you considered their feelings enough to notify them. 4) What if I find a grave yard that needs some upkeep? Answer: Find out what the local laws are first off. Who is legally responsible for the upkeep? Sometimes these folks are older and not in the shape to get out there to work on the graves and do not have the funding. If this is the case, then suggest to them that possibly if you work together you can find a group (such as the Boy or Girl Scouts) that might help put the cemetery back into shape. How do you find the owner? If everything else fails, go to the local real-estate taxing department at the local court house and ask who owns the property. Try to have an idea what the address is. If you are not sure, go to the mapping department and ask them. I have worked with both departments and either one could tell you. 5) Why take a walking stick? Answer: You can use it to push shrubs aside to see the stone. You could use it to test the ground for holes. You could use it to throw unwanted things into the bushes (creepy crawly things). If you put a nail in the end, you could use it to see if there is a stone buried under the ground (which the care takers do, or time). You could use it to lift a stone off the ground to see if there is writing on the other side. Or you could use it to just walk with. 6) How do I read a partially illegible stone? Answer: This is a touchy subject. There are several ways to try to read a stone that seems illegible. You could try a mirror, you could try a digital camera looked through at different angles (try to put shadow on the letters as with the mirror), or you could try a piece of sidewalk chalk. I have contacted the chalk company of the brand that we use, and they assure me that it will not damage the stones due to the fact that the substance that they use in the chalk is softer than the stone. There is one type of stone that is very porous and I would not suggest using the chalk on and that is marble. Unfortunately, during the years just before the Civil War and afterwards they used mostly marble. Touch is the best way then. I get down and finger the letters. You will become accustomed to the feel of the letters and sometimes that is the easiest way. You could say you are giving the stone the personal touch. It certainly brings you closer to the one buried there. What is dowsing, and how do you do it? Dowsing is what they have used in the past to identify sites where water could be found. It is also a way to identify unmarked graves. Don't ask how it works, just know that it does. I know of a case out in Hendricks County Indiana that they wanted to build a road past the County Home that dated back into the 1800s but there was a cemetery in the way with many, many unmarked graves. The authorities dowsed the ground to identify the graves, then dug them up and reburied them elsewhere. Justin Houser and I have both used this method to identify graves, and we have asked others who walked by to try it. It does work, and surprises everyone. This is what you do: Take two metal hangers and cut them so you have two pieces of metal shaped like an "L's." Go out to the local grave yard and hold the rods out in front of you like you are holding a steering wheel in the 3 o'clock, 9 o'clock position but not tightly. Walk across a row of graves that you know to be there. As you walk, you will right away notice that the rods cross at the same intervals as you cross over each grave. WOW!!! How does this thing work? I have no idea. Now walk over a row of graves that has a few stones missing. If there are graves there, you will again have the rods crossing at regular intervals. Now, walk across a whole field of unmarked graves as I did in Osceola Mills in Clearfield County and you will be amazed!!! There were the crossings at the same intervals as the rest of the marked cemetery. The real shocker was when the rods didn't cross, but went violently outward!! I asked Justin Houser what the heck that was. I had never felt that kind of movement before, not with such force. He said "water." Amazing. I know that sometimes they don't cross. There are other things to think about. Sometimes there is no body there, even though there is a stone. I can think of several reasons for that happening. Family lost at sea. During the years that there were several deaths due to sickness, sometimes they were buried in a mass grave. the families were still known to put up grave stones in the family grave yard. I do know of one case where the young man died during a battle in the Civil war, but between the field hospital and the coffin the body was lost. There is a stone, but no grave in the family plot. ~~~~~~ I have one suggestion that may help with the search. Check for areas with a small stand of fir or cedar trees. (I do not know what trees are native to the area.) Many, but not all, will have had some type evergreen tree planted either at the corners or on certain lots. In a heavily forested area they are easier to spot during the fall and winter but can help in the search anytime. I have heard of many old cemeteries being found this way. ~~~~~~ Great news re: your support! That’s the best motivator. If Tech wasn’t involved each June with free labor to continue excavations at Menard (like now) I don’t know how active I would be working on my own. Some thoughts on cemeteries: The tricky part is the location may not be tied to the ‘ol homestead. I’m sure you’ve seen plots close to the structures, but it seems they were also some distance away (like Stephan Klein’s, probably). They can also be tied to site conditions – a knoll on the property that had a nice view of the land/creek, surrounding a landmark tree that may no longer be there, etc. It’s great detective work, but put yourself on the property as you think it looked in the early 1800’s when the plot was selected (this is the fun part for me). Since the land most likely doesn’t look at all like it did 200 years ago due to agriculture, clearing, site contouring, try to get a USGS map of the place and look at the contours. These maps usually show old fence lines and paths – some may actually show the cemetery at the end of a private road on the property (happened on a place my uncle bought). The contours may reveal that knoll that you can’t see today for the trees. Also – if you want to spend all your vacation on this search – a trip to the County soil conservation office may be worthwhile as they usually have aerial photos that go back into the ‘40s, a great reference. And never discount oral histories of the old folks in the area. Have fun! I have been amazed how clear the burial outlines are apparent when a site has the top foot or so of soil carefully scraped away. The soil in the burial usually is a darker color than the adjacent, relatively undisturbed soil. ~~~~~ Take a metal detector also. If you can find any nails from the coffins (they should be all over) gather a few and take them as evidence. They can do an archaeological dig to help identify the precise boundaries of the cemetery. ~~~~~ Go to _http://dowsers.org/faq.htm_ (http://dowsers.org/faq.htm) for info on map dowsing. If you write to the ASD, they will give you contact information for Dowsers close to your area. ~~~~~ This is the most easily understood article on dowsing I have found. Can even tell sex and approximate age. Hope it helps. _http://www.tommymarkham.com/gravedowsing.htm_ (http://www.tommymarkham.com/gravedowsing.htm) ~~~~~ Hold your pendulum over something you need to know the sex of, e.g. an egg, new born animal, friend of uncertain gender, and wait for the natural pull. The pendulum will swing in straight lines for a male and circle for a female. If you hold it over the end of a pencil it will circle, then as you move it along the length, say to the middle it will gradually change its swing to a straight line. (what does this tell us about the gender of pencils!) You probably know that it is based on the theory that we are in possesion of all knowledge and just need a little help to overcome the restraints of the conscious mind to release it.You can use a map. I believe the police use dowsers with maps occasionally with some success to find bodies. Im not sure what I believe but when the pendulum starts to move wildly and you know that you are not consciously making it happen its quite a freaky experience and not nearly so scarey as howdoyspellum oueejie boards. I have a pair of the bent coat hanger type but never felt the same confidence in them as I do in the pendulums. How do you know if it works though without digging up a few bones for proof. Please add my name to your protest list, just off to try my unmarked pet graves in the orchard. If that works I may cross the allotments with my eyes closed and see if I can find my way to Winston Churchills resting place.

At 18:32 11.06.05 -0500, you wrote: > This issue needs to be addressed. If you can't find who you are > looking for in the Alamo Masonic Cemetery, this may be why. I am sure > this has happened to other cemeteries and am not fussing at the Masons. >G. Winters >======================================================= >What do you do when you discover missing graves in a roadway? This >afternoon I was dowsing for graves in Strangers' Row, and the police >officer on duty was somewhat doubtful of my method. Most people are, but I >learned about it thru a mailing list, and it works, even worked several >years ago for Mamma who thought I had truly lost my mind, hid in the car. > >I figured the officer had the heart for it, so I handed him the dowsers >and they worked right away. We were horrified to see the dowser keep going >as he walked across the road. Then we realized the original path must have >only been 6 feet wide, not a road at all. The officer got a call that >somebody was trying to jump off the railroad bridge so he had to leave, >but another gentleman showed up (the one who has now donated the website >to the cemetery, he does that for a living) and we continued the search. >To our horror, we have discovered that all of the "roads" except for the >main one thru the center, were originally paths. There are graves under >one side road that is paved. I have no idea how wide the main road really >is. These are all roads within the cemetery, not the public streets. > Does anyone have any suggestions on how we can identify these truly > forgotten people? What records do I look for? Where? I would think before one started to think there are graves there ground penetrating radar should be use because it works and dowing has never held up in any controlled study. For GPR to locate graves. http://www.savinggraves.org/education/bookshelf/gpr.htm and example of it's use in grave location http://www.archaeophysics.com/burials/index.html The failure of dowsing to met statistical validation: http://www.csicop.org/si/9901/dowsing.html Homo vult decipi; decipiatur. http://www.lysator.liu.se/~rasmus/skepticism/dowsing.html

Hi, Linda I have forwarded your questions to Sarah. I am sorry she is not allowed to post on here anymore. She can answer your questions. G. Winters ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Jaschke" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 7:23 PM Subject: Re: Lost graves > Do you literally mean "dowsing" as for water? What do you use & how > does this work! Fascinating! > Now where is this location you speak of with graves under the paved > road? I know of an incident of a > similar happening in Bell Co. TX. whereby the people who do this > roadwork( and I won't mention names) > discovered their road-scrappers were digging up skeleton remains from > what later turned out to be > burials for paupers from a poor farm; from my understanding, workers > reported this, but I have no > idea if anything was done to bury these skeletal remains elsewhere! > Cannot help but wonder > how often in the past, this has happened! Linda Howard Jaschke > > > g.winters wrote: > > > This issue needs to be addressed. If you can't find who you are looking for in the Alamo Masonic Cemetery, this may be why. I am sure this has happened to other cemeteries and am not fussing at the Masons. > >G. Winters > >======================================================= > >What do you do when you discover missing graves in a roadway? This afternoon I was dowsing for graves in Strangers' Row, and the police officer on duty was somewhat doubtful of my method. Most people are, but I learned about it thru a mailing list, and it works, even worked several years ago for Mamma who thought I had truly lost my mind, hid in the car. > > > >I figured the officer had the heart for it, so I handed him the dowsers and they worked right away. We were horrified to see the dowser keep going as he walked across the road. Then we realized the original path must have only been 6 feet wide, not a road at all. The officer got a call that somebody was trying to jump off the railroad bridge so he had to leave, but another gentleman showed up (the one who has now donated the website to the cemetery, he does that for a living) and we continued the search. To our horror, we have discovered that all of the "roads" except for the main one thru the center, were originally paths. There are graves under one side road that is paved. I have no idea how wide the main road really is. These are all roads within the cemetery, not the public streets. > > Does anyone have any suggestions on how we can identify these truly forgotten people? What records do I look for? Where? > > > >Thanks, > >Sarah > > > > > >============================== > >Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > >areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > >Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Sorry to add to your excess of mail but this is what I sent to the list administrator. Just wanted to share! Blessings!!! I pay for all the Ancestry.com services but one, enjoy my Rootsweb Review and belong to several mailing lists. Most of them send mail once in a while if at all. When the Bexar line started having information shared by Sarah (I have no idea who she or any of the others are) I was really excited and interested. My family has a lot of history in Texas most of whom were first generation from Sicily, Ireland and Scotland. My Great Grandmother's family were Tejanos who fought for Texas at the Alamo. I don't understand why a few people were able to cut off the most interesting flow of messages that I have seen. Also, I am the wife of a Mason, the granddaughter of a Mason, the great niece of three Masons, the daughter in law of a Mason and an Eastern Star and the mother in law of a Rainbow Worthy Advisor. The mail from the Mason who was furious with Sarah and jumped at the chance of meeting with the news from Wilson County is not my idea of a Mason. He really should have been first in line to get this mess taken care of. I hope you and whoever else makes these rules reconsiders the blocking of someone who I presume, until now, has been just another one of us who is trying to learn about our history. Thank you. Jeri Alessandro James Bawden ----- Original Message ----- From: "g.winters" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 11:18 PM Subject: Why is Sarah blocked because > She is. If you would like to have her able to post, then tell the > administrator of this mailing list. I have! Just go to Rootsweb, find > this mailing list, there is a place somewhere in there to comment to the > list administrator. I started at about 11 oclock with 13 private and > publid messages, most of which were about the Alamo Masonic Cemetery and > Sarah's fight to get it cleaned. I just made it to the end for now, mail > kept coming and coming and coming. It is now 1:14. and I am almost brain > dead. And more came in as I am writing this message. > G. Winters > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > >

John is right the methods he describes was used in Muskogee,Oklahoma where many Cherokees are buried.

I have the deed for 4 lots my dad bought at Sunneylane Cemetery in Dell City,Oklahoma . My dad was a barter he traded two fresh milk cows for those lots.

This happend in New Jersey where a Gov Boch and Gov BEST was buried. Happened in Ar at the Darddinell when they put the cemetry under water.Many times in Ohio.

Do you literally mean "dowsing" as for water? What do you use & how does this work! Fascinating! Now where is this location you speak of with graves under the paved road? I know of an incident of a similar happening in Bell Co. TX. whereby the people who do this roadwork( and I won't mention names) discovered their road-scrappers were digging up skeleton remains from what later turned out to be burials for paupers from a poor farm; from my understanding, workers reported this, but I have no idea if anything was done to bury these skeletal remains elsewhere! Cannot help but wonder how often in the past, this has happened! Linda Howard Jaschke g.winters wrote: > This issue needs to be addressed. If you can't find who you are looking for in the Alamo Masonic Cemetery, this may be why. I am sure this has happened to other cemeteries and am not fussing at the Masons. >G. Winters >======================================================= >What do you do when you discover missing graves in a roadway? This afternoon I was dowsing for graves in Strangers' Row, and the police officer on duty was somewhat doubtful of my method. Most people are, but I learned about it thru a mailing list, and it works, even worked several years ago for Mamma who thought I had truly lost my mind, hid in the car. > >I figured the officer had the heart for it, so I handed him the dowsers and they worked right away. We were horrified to see the dowser keep going as he walked across the road. Then we realized the original path must have only been 6 feet wide, not a road at all. The officer got a call that somebody was trying to jump off the railroad bridge so he had to leave, but another gentleman showed up (the one who has now donated the website to the cemetery, he does that for a living) and we continued the search. To our horror, we have discovered that all of the "roads" except for the main one thru the center, were originally paths. There are graves under one side road that is paved. I have no idea how wide the main road really is. These are all roads within the cemetery, not the public streets. > Does anyone have any suggestions on how we can identify these truly forgotten people? What records do I look for? Where? > >Thanks, >Sarah > > >============================== >Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the >areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > >

About looking for grave sites -- I noticed on TV that there was a way to see the damage to the layers of land when looking for a body. I was very interested not only for your conversation, but to see if there was someone buried next to a marked grave. Now I know about dousing and know there are people that are proficient in the technique. However, I must ask -- how do you know those were current occupied graves or sites where the bodies have been moved. Did you dig and find casket or bones? I think everyone that has done the history of Bexar County know that some of the land around Santa Rosa was the old Campo Santo (Old Spanish Cemetery). The bodies were moved. When they were putting new Houston street however, they continued to uncover bones that I assume were also moved. Now does your dousing only cover old graves or does it actually indicate that there still are remains at the site. If the graves are along the road, then the road did not cover them. Is the dousing different for a grave vs. underground construction of electric lines or wates lines? I realize that most people think that every grave should be marked and I have been involved and seen where people were deeply distrubed when they see graves outside of cemeteries. There are small cemeteries around San Antonio as there are in all parts of the country. The owners of the land removed the old markers (rocks, wood, or limestone) to insure that the property sold and that no one knew of the graves. Where was the changing point in my thinking -- My cousins went to the ancestral town for the history of the NW Bexar Steubing family. They learned that the cemetery had been recently plowed since there were only decades old graves and any markers are worn to the ground. Now there could be new gravesites where more people could be buried in that cemetery. Now if a town can do that to a cemetery, do I need to get excited about a grave that apparently the family did not care enough about. Also the closing of old cemeteries and the authorties in charge are not being very careful in the project-- Bones mixed, left behind, moved to unmarked sites, lists of names of those moved lost. In NW Bexar there was a little cemetery known as Hoffmann's Culebra cemetery on Culebra road. When it became evident that Hoffmann's Ranch would not stay in the family, the graves were dug up and the gravestones and the remains were removed to another cemetery. I was there and remember them counting all the bones to be sure they found them all. Now many people did not move the graves off their ranchland. Some knew there were graves and other sites were lost to history. Again -- should we be concerned if the family did not care enough to see to the permanent markings of the sites. Then there are those individuals that think that it is neat to be buried at sea or have their ashes spread upon the waters or the lands -- how would we mark those sites. As I've mentioned, the older I get and the more things I see have left me at a point where I am no longer concerned as I was before the world educated me. I don't think we should be that concerned. In the mentioned case, it would seem that simply keeping up the area would be sufficient. And are you sure the bodies are there and not only the old remains? I really do want to know since I am missing the places were ancestors were buried. Also there are plots and lots that I want to know if they are occupied to see whether the "lost"are there without a tombstone. I look forward to the point in time when science and equipment progress to a point where it would be reasonible to hire someone to look at pieces of land. It will be wonderful when we can go over cemeteries and locate unmarked graves. But, while those families prayed "gone but not forgotten" they did indeed forget. You note that the county records the purchase of lots -- do they indeed? I didn't think that it was done very often. Where would I go exactly? I don't have time to search for a site that might not exist. Mary Lee Sloan >From: [email protected] (Ross McClain) >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: Lost graves >Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 19:00:07 -0500 > >If the city bought rightaway for those roads then there should be a list >of the graves below those roads. The City Plaining commission is the >first place I would check. And also County records those grave sites >were bought by some poor soul and there should be deeds for those plots. > > >============================== >Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the >areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >

If the city bought rightaway for those roads then there should be a list of the graves below those roads. The City Plaining commission is the first place I would check. And also County records those grave sites were bought by some poor soul and there should be deeds for those plots.

You might want to try this site as well ... http://www.genlookups.com/texas_marriages/ I've been able to find a lot on it ... including some very old marriages and even my own! Loretta ----- Original Message ----- From: Diane Scannell To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 2:23 PM Subject: Re: 1940s Marriage licences Richard, I don't think anyone has responded to your query. I THINK the Bexar County Marriages have all been microfilmed with copies on file in the Texana/Genealogy department of the San Antonio Public Library. You can visit their web page at http://www.sat.lib.tx.us/central/texana.htm and perhaps see if someone there can make a copy of the record you need. Diane Richard Foster wrote: > Does anyone know how much a marriage record from 1943 can be obtained > for from the Bexar county clerk? My parents married in Bexar county > in 1943 and I would like to obtain a copy of the marriage record. > > Richard Foster > Austin, TX > > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for > ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx > > > ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429

This issue needs to be addressed. If you can't find who you are looking for in the Alamo Masonic Cemetery, this may be why. I am sure this has happened to other cemeteries and am not fussing at the Masons. G. Winters ======================================================= What do you do when you discover missing graves in a roadway? This afternoon I was dowsing for graves in Strangers' Row, and the police officer on duty was somewhat doubtful of my method. Most people are, but I learned about it thru a mailing list, and it works, even worked several years ago for Mamma who thought I had truly lost my mind, hid in the car. I figured the officer had the heart for it, so I handed him the dowsers and they worked right away. We were horrified to see the dowser keep going as he walked across the road. Then we realized the original path must have only been 6 feet wide, not a road at all. The officer got a call that somebody was trying to jump off the railroad bridge so he had to leave, but another gentleman showed up (the one who has now donated the website to the cemetery, he does that for a living) and we continued the search. To our horror, we have discovered that all of the "roads" except for the main one thru the center, were originally paths. There are graves under one side road that is paved. I have no idea how wide the main road really is. These are all roads within the cemetery, not the public streets. Does anyone have any suggestions on how we can identify these truly forgotten people? What records do I look for? Where? Thanks, Sarah

Next month we won't get any rain!

Hi, list Just letting everyone know that we made it through the night. Bad storms up here in northcentral Okla. G. Winters

I have a second cousin that lives in Lewis,Colorado that rode the Bulls in your Rodeo. Jason McClain I understand he did quite well. His Dad is Jim McClain lives in Kiowa,Colorado. Jason dad and his uncle John McClain were the best team ropers I have ever seen.

The bride of Ysidor Flores, Panfila Gil, was allegedly from Eagle Pass (Paso de Aguila). Eagle Pass is in Maverick Co., but according to the familysearch.org website (Place search), Maverick Co. was not organized until ca 1871. Previous records MAY be found in the parent counties, which are given below: Maverick County was created 2 February 1856 and organized in 1871 from Kinney and Kenedy counties. County seat: Eagle Pass Also, since the couple did not marry until 1882, one or both may appear on the 1880 census of Texas. This census is indexed on familyhistory.org One looks for the words *vast collections* (or similar words) on the opening screen. Then a good many choices are in the dropdown menu. Choose Census and then choose the US census for 1880. Hint: Do not give the search engine too much info. A given name for Panfila and the State Texas may be sufficient to give you a list of names to choose from. The website will have a link to *Household* - print that out. Then go to Ancestry.com images, which rootswebbers tell me is FREE (I have not tried it, as I seem to get bombarded with all kinds of messages, which deflect me from the task at hand). I highly recommend that you print out the Household info you find on the LDS website--familysearch.org Then see whether the Ancestry.com printout matches! I hope you find more about this family. E.W.Wallace PS Strange things happen in genealogy. Don't why I started searching long ago for the 1860 census of Dawson Co., TX. Do you know that Dawson is the former name of the area which contains Old Fort Clark? Found my mother's great uncle there as a teenager--he was later famed as an Indian fighter. (Present day Dawson Co. is in the Panhandle!!!) If you are interested in this area of Texas--old Fort Clark--read the 1860 census for that area. Many of the men who were soldiers there in 1860 later became members of the Confederacy. One sergeant--Riordan, if I remember correctly--became a Major in CSA.

I also have balls Sarah, anything you need, just let me know. Sorry I believed that you yourself unsubscribed.....should have known you got the boot from the "administrator". Maybe since those who run this board aren't interested we'll find other people who are. In a message dated 6/11/2005 10:45:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: I didn't unsubscribe, do you think I would? I was bumped by the List Administrator. I get posts but mine are blocked. I have asked several people to post for me, nobody had the balls to, so I got my GIRLFRIEND Samantha in New York to post! Thanks again for supporting me! Sarah

Emily, I checked my database but did not find your gggfather, but good news, I did find Ysidro Flores marriage to Panfila Gil in the San Fernando Church records. Here is how it is listed. Record # 1476 "Flores, Ysidro, 49 years old, a widower of Francisca Hernandez, he is from San Juan Allende, in San Antonio 32 years, legitimate son of late Manuel Flores and the late Josefa Flores de Valdez, to Panfila Gil, 24, a widow, from El Paso del Aguila, (Eagle Pass, Tex.) legitimate duaghter of Carlos Gil and Refugia Jaimes. She has been in San Antonio 10 years. Witnesses: Juan Lozano and Rosenda Gonzales. Father L. Genolin married them Oct. 23, 1882." You can find the San Fernando Church records on the 6th floor of the San Antonio Public Library. Steve Gibson bexargenealogy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emily Russell" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 8:58 AM Subject: Ysidor Flores >I have been trying to research the San Antonio Library in regards to my >grandmother's family which was Flores. I am not familiar with that side >but was told a story that was handed down to my cousins and I was wondering >if any of you have heard anything about it. > > I was told that my great great grandfather was thought to be the mayor > (alcalde) of San Antonio at the time of the seige of the Alamo in Mar > 1836. What I was told is that he was murdered by being poisoned to keep > him from going to Washington on the Brazos to sign the Independence > papers. His last name was Flores but I do not know his first. I know he > had an infant son named Ysidor (Ysidore, Ysidoro or Isidore) Flores who > his father gave to a family in Medina TX, by the name of Cannon, to raise > when he found out that his life was in danger (have not found them > either). > > I checked the list of Alcaldes of San Antonio from 1731 to 1836 and found > that Jose Angel Navarro was Mayor in 1835 and Francisco Antonio Ruiz was > up to Feb 1836 and there is a gap from Feb to 6 Apr 1836 when Jose Maria > Salinas took office. In researching the Bexar Archives (1717-1836), A > Name Guide Compiled and edited by Adan Benevides, Jr, I found on pgs > 326-327 a Francisco Flores. One of his many entries (and his last one > also) was "Elected Alcalde of Bexar 2/2/1836" > > I am trying to find out if there is any info on what happened to him or > anything about his family. > > The Isidor (Ysidoro) Flores that is my great grandfather was born 4 Apr > 1835 in TX and died 15 Apr 1897 in San Antonio. He married Francisca > Hernandez 28 Sep 1854 in San Fernando Cathedral and later married Panfilla > Gil on 23 Oct 1882. He is suppose to have been a wealthy land owner with > land both in Medina and Bexar County and reportedly sold mules to the > Army. > > I found where he purchased 160 acres of land on the Medio Creek in Dec > 1882 and I was told that his children by Panfilla Gil were born on this > ranch he had in Macdonna TX (Bexar County). > > If anyone has any info, I would greatly appreciate it. > > Emily Russell > > > > > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >