Caleb Turner, born 1800 in Westfield, Mass to William Turner and Lucy Phelps. In Yorkshire, Cattaragus County, NY Caleb married Polly Paddock and had 5 children including Mary, Orson O., and George. Orson was in Yorkshire until at least 1860. In 1865 in Champaign County, Ill he married Cerrilda Jane (Syrelda) Anderson, daughter of Harry Anderson and Rachael (from Indiana). In 1870 they were in Sidney, Champaign County, Ill. In 1880 they were in South Homer, Champaign County, Ill. They had the following children: Silas, Ella, Charles, Nettie, Delphia, and twins, Orson and John. John died before the family left Illinois around 1881/82. My g-grandfather was born in Kansas (somewhere) in 1882. Silas went to Oklahoma for awhile with wife Carrie. They had 5 children and in 1910, only 2 were living including Lena, born in 1901 in Oklahoma (somewhere). In 1910 he was in Scott and in1920 he was in Finney County. He supposedly died around Garden City or Fort Scott (memory of someone who attended funeral) around 1949. Joe went to Greene County, Springfield, Missouri where in married in 1903 and then disappeared in 1911. I believe Delphia married a GIBBON. She died in 1928 in Greene ( living with brother Orson) and was buried in Pierce City, Missouri. Orson went to Greene County and married Phoebe Patterson. He died in 1949. His obituary mentioned he was intent on visiting the grave of his twin brother, John in Philo, Illinois (he was killed in an auto accident). HELP? I would like to find the kids as perhaps when my g-grandfather hit the road, he went to one of his siblings homes. Michelle KCMO

Looking for info regarding Theophilus TURNER, who was the son of a Susan TURNER in Williamson Co., IL. Theophilus, also known as "Oflis," married Mary Ann BRYANT in 1853 in Union Co., IL. In 1860, Theophilus and Mary Ann BRYANT TURNER were living next door to his mother Susan TURNER in Williamson Co., IL. In 1880, Theophilus and Mary Ann BRYANT TURNER were living in Carmi Township, White Co., IL. I cannot find them after 1880. Mary Ann BRYANT TURNER was the sister of my gg grandfather, George Washington BRYANT, b. 8 Sept 1840 somewhere in Georgia. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Doug Powers

Searching for ancestors to William TURNER born 1855 Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire LK area and died 1911 in Fall River, Massachusetts. Thank you. The Turner's & Sons

Hi everyone I'm new to this list. My TURNER and BEESLEY family history is as follows:- Maria TURNER (born c.1808/9, Dudley, WOR) married (26 Jul 1829, Walsall, STS) Ira / Hirah BEESLEY (miner) born c.1807/8 Halesowen, WOR . Their children, all born in Dudley, WOR were: Sarah Ann BEESLEY bap. 25 Jul 1830 Mary BEESLEY bap. 19 May 1839 William BEESLEY bap. 14 Nov 1941 Edward BEESLEY b c.1843/4 Jane BEESLEY b c.1848/9 Caroline BEESLEY b c.1849/50. William BEESLEY (iron puddler) married Mary Ann HUGHES (b c.1840, Bilston, STS daughter of John HUGHES, miner) 2 Apr 1864 in Hoyland, Barnsley, YKS. Their children, born Wakefield, YKS: Laura BEESLEY b c.1864 Sarah BEESLEY b c.1865 Jeremiah BEESLEY b c.1867 born Horbury, YKS: Mary BEESLEY b c.1870 Ira BEESLEY b c.1874 Herbert BEESLEY born 26 Oct 1876 Ernest BEESLEY b c.1878 Alexander BEESLEY b c.1880 Lilian BEESLEY b c.1882 Herbert BEESLEY (wood sawyer) married Jennet Mary DREW (born 14 Jul 1879, Garsdale, YKS daughter of John DREW, r/w signalman, and Catherine CAPSTICK) 7 May 1900 in Wakefield, YKS. Can anyone make any connections or provide more details for Maria TURNER and her family? Regards Helen Blagg Lincolnshire, England Researching all lines, including BEESLEY, CAPSTICK, DREW, HUGHES, TURNER and many more in YKS, HAM, DOR, KEN, NTT & WOR, England and DENIEF(F) in St Johns NFD, CAN

Searching for Isaac TURNER b 1788 Paris, FR d 1867 Wayne Co., PA. Isaac m Nancy KELLEY in 1848 after he stopped at her farm in Wayne Co., PA and worked for her. They had 8 children: Mathilda who was a post mistress for NayAug, PA; John Milton; Franklyn Varney; Mary Angeline; James Buchanan; Rosilla Correll; Elma Martha; and Elmer Marcus (last 2 were twins). Family lore says Isaac 'came from the West' when he stopped at Nancy's farm and that he had been married twice before. Nothing is know of these marriages but he had children from them. In the 1850 Wayne Co., PA census a John TURNER is shown living next door to Isaac/Nancy. His children were: Maria, George and Milton - twins; Victoria and Virginia, and Henry. Since the name MILTON shows up in the children with Nancy plus twins in each family (this also carried into the next generation), I feel this John was an earlier son of Isaac. Is anyone out there missing an ISAAC TURNER???? Hope to hear from some of you out there!!!!!

Does anyone recognize this family? John Turner m Anne _?_ Children: Walter S. Turner*, b 20 Mar 1874 (was a twin but twin died at birth), came to America ca 1888, m Carrie Belding Lynk in 1897 in Onondaga Co NY Anne Turner, b ca 1876 Fannie Turner, b ca 1886 John (Jack) Turner Edward (Ted) Turner Polly Turner Dorothy (Dolly) Turner *Was born a Turner, but when he came to America he came with his uncle and aunt (unknown to his parents) and took on his uncle's last name Smith. Thanks for any help! Cindy Walker mailto:cwalker@camcomp.com ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

All this discussion is very interesting. My mother's family is TURNER and her mother's name was LEMON. One of the things that sent me on my ancestral quest was Mom's coloring. Out of a family of nine, only she and her youngest brother had the same coloring, very dark hair and eyes and rich olive skin coloring. They both always looked as if they had spent all their time working on a deep tan. They also both had somewhat slanted exotic looking eyes. When Mom wore her hair in braids, she looked exactly like she belonged on a reservation somewhere. She didn't get the coloring from the TURNER line, though, it came from her mother who looked EXACTLY like her, coloring and hair and everything. I still work on grandmother LEMON's line since the earliest I can get to is the early 1800s when her grandfather was born. Family history says the LEMONs came from Wales around 1800. Another story says they were Black Dutch from Pa. I've never been able to verify either. Sue Bishop "It was said she held a grudge until it died of old age, and then had it stuffed and mounted...." David Weber

Looking for any one who has a connection to the following: 1. Robert Turner, 1803 Glastonburg, Ct. d; 1893 ?, m;Caroline Cheney Ellis, 1807, Orange, MA. d; 1896, Saginaw, MI. 2. Susana Mercy Turner, 1835, Brewer, ME. d; 1918 Ann Arbor, MI. m; Noah Corydon Richardson, 1829, Madison county, NY, d; 1869 NY 3. Alice Maud Richardson, 1863, Saginaw, MI. d; 1953, Wausau, WI. m; Cyrus Carpenter Yawkey, 1862, Chicago, Ill. 1943, Wausau, WI. 4. Leigh Yawkey, 1888, East Saginaw, MI, m; Aytchmonde Perrin Woodson, 1881, Platte City, MO. 5. Margart Perrin Woodson, Wausau, WI. m; Doctor Frederick William Fisher, Thanks, Nora gramsalty@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

--part1_f8113dfc.245e0f05_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_f8113dfc.245e0f05_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <PADUTCHgenONLY-L-request@rootsweb.com> Received: from rly-za01.mx.aol.com (rly-za01.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.97]) by air-za04.mail.aol.com (v59.4) with SMTP; Sun, 02 May 1999 15:56:53 -0400 Received: from bl-11.rootsweb.com (bl-11.rootsweb.com [204.212.38.27]) by rly-za01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id PAA01726; Sun, 2 May 1999 15:56:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from slist@localhost) by bl-11.rootsweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18950; Sun, 2 May 1999 12:55:53 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 12:55:53 -0700 (PDT) From: JYoung6180@aol.com Message-ID: <dda70620.245e0790@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 15:54:56 EDT Subject: Re: [PADUTCHgenONLY-L] "Black dutch" Old-To: mthomas@si-net.com, PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Resent-Message-ID: <qLhNrD.A.5nE.J3KL3@bl-11.rootsweb.com> To: PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: <PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/10416 X-Loop: PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: PADUTCHgenONLY-L-request@rootsweb.com In a message dated 5/2/99 3:48:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mthomas@si-net.com writes: > There is an article in American Genealogy Magazine (Vol. 12, No. 1) titled > "In Search of the Black Dutch". The gist is that the term "Black Dutch" > was used to describe any dark-skinned American of European/Native American > descent. My deceased father-in-law was from Arkansas and used the term to > describe his own heritage. Hope this helps. Melissa- You will find as many definitions of "Black Dutch" as you will find articles. No two people (or articles) can agree on the meaning. Some insist the term applies to Germanic people who intermarried with the nomadic Sephardic Jews, others tell of Native American intermarriages with the PADUTCH settlers, or a Spanish involvement, and on and on; but the bottom line is that no one has ever been able to substantiate what the term means with a pedigree that is provable. I have found the term used more frequently to refer to Germanic immigrants--usually PADutchmen-whose descendants moved to the South--but like everything else connected to the "Black Dutch" that isn't *always* the case. :-) Joan ==== PADUTCHgenONLY Mailing List ==== If you have concerns or problems with the list, send an e-mail off to Joan at JYoung6180@aol.com --part1_f8113dfc.245e0f05_boundary--

--part1_eeef5e4d.245e0ecd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_eeef5e4d.245e0ecd_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <PADUTCHgenONLY-L-request@rootsweb.com> Received: from rly-yd05.mx.aol.com (rly-yd05.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.5]) by air-yd05.mx.aol.com (v59.4) with SMTP; Sun, 02 May 1999 15:49:02 -0400 Received: from bl-11.rootsweb.com (bl-11.rootsweb.com [204.212.38.27]) by rly-yd05.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id PAA08922; Sun, 2 May 1999 15:48:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from slist@localhost) by bl-11.rootsweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01915; Sun, 2 May 1999 12:47:58 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 12:47:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001701be94d4$39d6ab20$7126c4d0@196.38.2.199.120.185.1> From: "Melissa" <mthomas@si-net.com> Old-To: <PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com> References: <218eb686.245d0e62@aol.com> <372BCB00.440F2CA1@mailbox.syr.edu> Subject: Re: [PADUTCHgenONLY-L] "Black dutch" Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 14:44:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Resent-Message-ID: <dQlG1B.A.jd.tvKL3@bl-11.rootsweb.com> To: PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: <PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/10415 X-Loop: PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: PADUTCHgenONLY-L-request@rootsweb.com FYI There is an article in American Genealogy Magazine (Vol. 12, No. 1) titled "In Search of the Black Dutch". The gist is that the term "Black Dutch" was used to describe any dark-skinned American of European/Native American descent. My deceased father-in-law was from Arkansas and used the term to describe his own heritage. Hope this helps. mthomas@si-net.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Mary D. Taffet <mdtaffet@mailbox.syr.edu> To: <PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 1999 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [PADUTCHgenONLY-L] "Black dutch" > FYI -- > > While they are apparently not the same thing, a group of persons living > in North Carolina, known as Melungeons, have sometimes been referred to > as "Black Dutch", according to information found at the following web > site: > > http://bright.net/~kat/melung.htm > > -- Mary Taffet > mdtaffet@syr.edu > > P.S. This site includes a list of Melungeon surnames. > > > BCHBUM3@aol.com wrote: > > > > Does anyone know what the phrase "black dutch" means? Someone on another > > list I'm on (TURNER-L) said it was a phrase used to describe her gg > > grandmother whose last name was TURNER. The gg grandmother was born in North > > Carolina. > > > > I was intrigued. > > > > Thanks > > > > ==== PADUTCHgenONLY Mailing List ==== > > Please change the subject line when you change the subject. > > This will help others and help you get the most from the list. > > > ==== PADUTCHgenONLY Mailing List ==== > Support the people that support you. Join Rootsweb at: > http://www.rootsweb.com > > ==== PADUTCHgenONLY Mailing List ==== If you can help another on our list, don't be afraid to do so. Someday maybe they'll be able to help you. Thanks! --part1_eeef5e4d.245e0ecd_boundary--

--part1_bf0ef68e.245df346_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear TURNER list, Start at the bottom of this forwarded mail and read each piece in reverse order. Rather than send each one individually, I thought it more efficient to send it this way:) P. --part1_bf0ef68e.245df346_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <PADUTCHgenONLY-L-request@rootsweb.com> Received: from rly-yd05.mx.aol.com (rly-yd05.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.5]) by air-yd03.mx.aol.com (v59.4) with SMTP; Sun, 02 May 1999 13:14:03 -0400 Received: from bl-11.rootsweb.com (bl-11.rootsweb.com [204.212.38.27]) by rly-yd05.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id NAA09990; Sun, 2 May 1999 13:13:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from slist@localhost) by bl-11.rootsweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA04739; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:13:09 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 10:13:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <372CA3BB.9646A55E@iquest.net> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 12:13:01 -0700 From: Sarah Clevenger <sclevenger@iquest.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Old-To: PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com References: <5b88ab33.245dbeb0@aol.com> <372C8253.424879A1@mailbox.syr.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [PADUTCHgenONLY-L] Re: Basque Resent-Message-ID: <AY85pB.A.5JB.keIL3@bl-11.rootsweb.com> To: PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: <PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/10414 X-Loop: PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: PADUTCHgenONLY-L-request@rootsweb.com The Basques have been known for years to have been genetically different from the rest of Europe. The frequence of the B gene, as in the ABO blood type, is very low the Basque gene pool. The frequency of the B gene in europe reflects the route of Attilla, the Hun, in his sweep across the area. The frequency of the B gene is higher in Asian populations. The PA Dutch show a gene pool that has a distinctly different set of gene frequencies from the general population of the U. S because they don't intermarry with the general population but only with other members of their group. DNA testing is just a more refined technique. (And more expensive. <G>) S. Clevenger Mary D. Taffet wrote: > FYI -- > > As a person with a background in linguistics, I can say that there have > been some studies based on DNA that have attempted to prove the fact > that certain ethnic groups whose languages are known as isolates (not > related to any other known language) are also isolated genetically. The > specific groups I have in mind are the Basques (north western Spain and > south western France) and also the Ainu (persons living in Japan who are > not related to the Japanese.) The Basque and Ainu languages have so far > evaded classification among the language families of the world because > they are so different from other known languages. > > The DNA studies have attempted to verify this isolation by showing that > these ethhic groups are genetically isolated from other known groups as > well. The conclusion reached in the case of the Basques is that they > are indeed genetically isolated, which may explain why their language is > also an isolate. > > As for what the DNA tests look for, and what they can show, I really > don't know. Though probably too technical, there is more information > found on this subject at the following sites: > > http://www.friesian.com/trees.htm > > http://shelob.bioanth.cam.ac.uk/mtDNA/paper.html > > There is what appears to be an opinion piece posted at the following > site, titled "Your Surname, Your Genealogy and Your DNA" (I haven't > thoroughly read it, so I don't know the overall gist of the opinion > offered): > > http://www.family2001.com/hon/dna.htm > > -- Mary Taffet > mdtaffet@syr.edu > > JamieRkSdr@aol.com wrote: > > > > In a message dated 5/2/99 10:19:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > > jhwest@ptialaska.net writes: > > > > << I'm sure it's not that simple. Anyone > > know what a DNA test would cost? As a tri-racial person, like most > > Americans, it would be great to see just what our DNA says. Does anyone know > > if a private person can go and ask someone to test and see what the genes > > tell? Helen >> > > > > hi helen - > > > > I have no idea what a DNA test would cost though I am sure the more extensive > > the testing the more expensive it would be. I do know they can get very > > detailed as my youngest child has a birth defect genetically linked to our > > ethnic group (celtic) so I read up about genetic testing - you can do a quite > > a bit prior to becoming pregnant to find out whats lurking in your DNA > > (although nothing is 100% informative) I would imagine if you are willing to > > pay for it you could get the same test just for genealogy purposes. i don't > > know what kind of information you could get aside from genetic possibility > > for birth defects...i don't know if there are racial markers for example - > > but would imagine you could do a web search and find out how much is possible > > to determine. > > > > Jamie > > > > ==== PADUTCHgenONLY Mailing List ==== > Support the people that support you. Join Rootsweb at: > http://www.rootsweb.com ==== PADUTCHgenONLY Mailing List ==== Help a friend! Give him/her what you know about their line. Sharing always has its own reward. --part1_bf0ef68e.245df346_boundary--

Hi Again The name for what you do before you become pregnant is called genetic screening, in which you mostly determine which genetically carried diseases your child might possibly have. I know that among the Ashkenazi Jews (or maybe Jews in general) in the United States have a high rate of Tay-Sachs disease, and the Africans are the only people that have sicle-cell anemia. Also remember that the American Indian did not have an immune system when the Europeans brought small pox and other sicknesses to the New World. Also, I heard from an Indian friend, that Indians also carry a gene that makes them more susecptible to alcoholism; hence, the major cause of the problem on some Indian reservations. Disease killed more Indians than any wars ever brought against them. >From what I have seen on television, a DNA test seems very expensive for just trying to determine whether you are Melungeon or not. I remember that the tests run into the thousands most of the time, and if you have a lot of tests done then you could easily pay $10,000 for DNA tests. I don't really think they are worth just trying to determine race. They are mostly used for paternity tests and court cases (ex. O. J. Simpson). I recently read an article that tied different mutations to different groups of people. The researcher (I don't remember his name) was trying to identify people from their genetic mutations. He found that the American Indians had a distinct mutation that was only found (or mostly found) in groups in the South Pacific... the Polynesions. With this information, he hopes to tie many groups of American Indians to Polynesians that came over to the New World in boats, rather than the Siberians (the "Land-Bridge Theory") that followed their food supply to Alaska. I don't know if there has been an update on this topic, but I did my research paper on the subject of genetics. I plan to major in Biology at either Ole Miss or Mississippi State University. Hope this helps to wet your appetite for more thoughts on genetics... Robby McCain Mississippi _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

Speaking of Melungeons... My great-great grandmother, Mary Anniebelle Turner Cook was said to be part Indian. I have found no other information on her on the internet or anywhere I have looked. I also don't know any of her relatives. I don't know where she was born, but it was in either TN, NC, or Ala. My family has a large picture of her taken before she died in the late 1890s. She is Indian, but I don't know if she could also be part black (most likely the other main component of the Melungeon) or Portugese (another possible lineage of the "Black Dutch" in the South). She lived in Hardin County,TN (where I think she was born) and married James Alexander Cook either there or in McNairy County, TN. She died rather young and was buried in Pisgah Cemetary in McNairy Co., near Shiloh. In my family they say that her son, my great-grandfather Winfred Sutton Cook, played on the battlefield of Shiloh when he was growing up. Also buried in the same cemetary are a Uriah and most likely his wife. He is old enough to be her father, but I don't know right now that he definitely was or not. Does anyone have a Uriah, or Eriah in their family from TN, or since they were right on the border with Mississippi, Tishomingo Co., where some of the family lived. If you can help me please do, this is a major wall in my family. Thanks Robby McCain Oxford, MS also Senatobia, MS (during the week) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

--part1_acc9c20c.245dbc26_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's another one... --part1_acc9c20c.245dbc26_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <PADUTCHgenONLY-L-request@rootsweb.com> Received: from rly-yd03.mx.aol.com (rly-yd03.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.3]) by air-yd04.mx.aol.com (v59.4) with SMTP; Sun, 02 May 1999 10:19:32 -0400 Received: from bl-11.rootsweb.com (bl-11.rootsweb.com [204.212.38.27]) by rly-yd03.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id KAA13160; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:19:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from slist@localhost) by bl-11.rootsweb.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA13122; Sun, 2 May 1999 07:16:25 -0700 (PDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 07:16:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004501be94a7$1c405520$966897d0@west1> From: "Helen West" <jhwest@ptialaska.net> Old-To: <PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 06:21:45 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Subject: [PADUTCHgenONLY-L] Re: Melungeon Resent-Message-ID: <pfvhw.A.4LD.44FL3@bl-11.rootsweb.com> To: PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: <PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/10411 X-Loop: PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: PADUTCHgenONLY-L-request@rootsweb.com Good Morning List, I read the information on Melungeon (sounds French) with great interest. If I were a descendant I would try and get a mtDNA test. That would solve the mystery, maybe. I'm sure it's not that simple. Anyone know what a DNA test would cost? As a tri-racial person, like most Americans, it would be great to see just what our DNA says. Does anyone know if a private person can go and ask someone to test and see what the genes tell? Helen ==== PADUTCHgenONLY Mailing List ==== Be tolerant of others people's views and shortcomings. Remember no flaming. Thanks! --part1_acc9c20c.245dbc26_boundary--

--part1_bcff94a2.245daf06_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Charlene, The website included in the email I am forwarding to both you, personally, and the list is the most exhaustive explanation so far of the term "black dutch". It seems TURNER is one of the "black dutch" or "melungeon" surnames of the peoples of the Appalachians who were already here and living in cabins when the colonists arrived! If this term intrigues you as much as it did me, this website is a must! --part1_bcff94a2.245daf06_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <mdtaffet@mailbox.syr.edu> Received: from rly-za01.mx.aol.com (rly-za01.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.97]) by air-za03.mail.aol.com (v59.4) with SMTP; Sat, 01 May 1999 23:53:50 -0400 Received: from mailbox.syr.edu (mailbox.syr.edu [128.230.18.5]) by rly-za01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id XAA27053 for <BCHBUM3@aol.com>; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailbox.syr.edu (sudial0505-084.syr.edu [128.230.151.84]) by mailbox.syr.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id XAA17774; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:53:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <372BCB00.440F2CA1@mailbox.syr.edu> Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 23:48:16 -0400 From: "Mary D. Taffet" <mdtaffet@mailbox.syr.edu> Organization: Syracuse University X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BCHBUM3@aol.com CC: PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PADUTCHgenONLY-L] "Black dutch" References: <218eb686.245d0e62@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI -- While they are apparently not the same thing, a group of persons living in North Carolina, known as Melungeons, have sometimes been referred to as "Black Dutch", according to information found at the following web site: http://bright.net/~kat/melung.htm -- Mary Taffet mdtaffet@syr.edu P.S. This site includes a list of Melungeon surnames. BCHBUM3@aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone know what the phrase "black dutch" means? Someone on another > list I'm on (TURNER-L) said it was a phrase used to describe her gg > grandmother whose last name was TURNER. The gg grandmother was born in North > Carolina. > > I was intrigued. > > Thanks > > ==== PADUTCHgenONLY Mailing List ==== > Please change the subject line when you change the subject. > This will help others and help you get the most from the list. --part1_bcff94a2.245daf06_boundary--

--part1_8ed988e4.245d1bd4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's another response I got. --part1_8ed988e4.245d1bd4_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <kyoung@gomontana.com> Received: from rly-zc02.mx.aol.com (rly-zc02.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.2]) by air-zc02.mail.aol.com (v59.4) with SMTP; Sat, 01 May 1999 22:28:36 -0400 Received: from gomontana.com (iris.gomontana.com [205.138.102.10]) by rly-zc02.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id WAA14521 for <BCHBUM3@aol.com>; Sat, 1 May 1999 22:28:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 208.135.41.154 (208.135.41.154) by gomontana.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Sat, 1 May 1999 20:39:11 -0600 Message-ID: <372BB84B.2354@gomontana.com> Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 19:28:27 -0700 From: Cheryl Young <kyoung@gomontana.com> Reply-To: kyoung@gomontana.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0-C-AICK1-2 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: BCHBUM3@aol.com CC: PADUTCHgenONLY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PADUTCHgenONLY-L] "Black dutch" References: <218eb686.245d0e62@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Q.     What are the Black Dutch? A.      From the German Research Companion by Shirley J. Riemer: "Black Dutch" "Although the term 'Black Dutch' has been used to denote a number of different ethnic or cultural groups, there seems to be little agreement as to just what the phrase means. Several genealogical organizations have made attempts to investigate the origin of the term 'Black Dutch,' yet no specific clarification, no pedigree charts, and no documentation of any kind have been forthcoming. Numerous accounts have circulated to the effect that the 'Black Dutch' can be identified as groups of Irish, Cherokee, Amish, Swiss, Sephardic Jews, Dutch-Indonesians, and Hollanders--to name just a few. The conclusion drawn by those who have attempted to define the term is that 'Black Dutch' ancestry seems to be based on folklore and hearsay." I found this at the Pennsylvania Dutch Family History Website http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~padutch/faqs/blackdutch.html Cheryl --part1_8ed988e4.245d1bd4_boundary--

--part1_5c64c9ef.245d1ba5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I did a query on the PADUTCH message board I also am on and so far I've gotten two responses. I was intrigued w/ the term when I heard it. Hope this starts you down the right path. --part1_5c64c9ef.245d1ba5_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <jhwest@ptialaska.net> Received: from rly-yb01.mx.aol.com (rly-yb01.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.1]) by air-yb05.mx.aol.com (v59.4) with SMTP; Sat, 01 May 1999 22:32:28 -0400 Received: from ptialaska.net (husky.ptialaska.net [198.70.245.245] (may be forged)) by rly-yb01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id WAA18803 for <BCHBUM3@aol.com>; Sat, 1 May 1999 22:32:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from west1 (dialups-127.ketchikan.ptialaska.net [208.151.104.127]) by ptialaska.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA00972 for <BCHBUM3@aol.com>; Sat, 1 May 1999 18:32:20 -0800 (AKDT) Message-ID: <00c501be9444$e6284b80$126897d0@west1> From: "Helen West" <jhwest@ptialaska.net> To: <BCHBUM3@aol.com> Subject: Re: [PADUTCHgenONLY-L] "Black dutch" Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 18:38:09 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Hello, I can only guess what Black Dutch means. There are the Black Irish who descend from the Romans when they occupied the Great Britain area. So instead of Red/Blond/Brown hair, they had Black. The Dutch ran the slave ships from Africa to the America's. The Dutch slave ships were a ruthless form of colonialism, worse that the English is many respects. I can only guess Black-Dutch would be a Afro-Dutch person. Unless they were speaking of the Black-English dialect you hear criticized today. Many Afro-Americans have kept the dialect going and people love to criticize what they don't understand. Black-English of course comes from the Dutch pronunciation of English words. It has remained through their history and is part of their culture. I could not find fault with that. If you get the facts, I love to know. Helen --part1_5c64c9ef.245d1ba5_boundary--

My gg grandmother CYNTHIA TURNER born 1815 NC. married Curtis Dempsey born 1812 NC. Children: 1. Alfred Jefferson Dempsey 17 July 1860 GA. 2. Samanthia Dempsey 3. Nannie Dempsey 4. Elijah Dempsey 5. Lacharia Dempsey 6. Clementine Dempsey 7. Tena Dempsey 8. Walton Dempsey Need info on Cynthia's parents. It has always been said in our family that Cynthia was "black dutch" what ever that meams. Charlene

Tried my best to cipher these names...hope it helps someone! Kay 1860 Itawamba, MS Census Dwelling Family Name Age Sex Born 248 248 Turner, Joseph T. 19 M ALA Sarah H. 19 F MS 337 337 Turner, John L. 32 M ALA Lydda 33 F ALA James M. 6 M MS Mary E. 4 F MS Sarah J. 3 F MS Annie S. 1 F MS 479 479 Turner, James 34 M SC Sarah 49 F TN Rhoda S. 17 F ALA James J. 16 M ALA Saml E. 10 M ALA Joshua D. 7 M MS 480 480 Turner, Joseph 20 M ALA Sarah M. 19 F ALA 499 499 Turner, Lewis 25 M SC Francis 23 F SC Lider L. 2 F SC 855 855 Turner, Allen 24 M ALA Francis 23 F ALA Amanda 2 F MS Benjamin 1 M MS 871 871 Turner, Loronzo D. 54 M KY Judah 46 F KY John W. 20 M MS Alfred J. 18 M MS David H. 10 M MS Isaac L. 8 M MS William H. 6 M MS 872 872 Turner, Francis M. 28 M ALA Rachael 28 F ALA Lorenzo D. 6 M MS Martha A. 14 F MS Elizabeth J. 1 F MS 1180 1180 Turner, Enis J. 30 M ALA Maranda 28 F TN Phebe L. 9 F MS Lucinda 7 F MS William F. 5 M MS Mary J. 1 F MS 1219 1219 Turner, Thomas A. 39 M GA Mary A. 32 F GA James W. 14 M MS Joseph J. 13 M MS Stephen H. 11 M MS Richard R. 9 M MS Enoch F. 8 M MS Thomas S. 6 M MS Greenberry 4 M MS Norman P. 1 M MS 2043 2043 Turner, Darby 59 M ALA Eliza J. 32 F ALA

Hello listers, I have just subscribed to this list as I have found an Eliza Ann Turner on my mothers side (my ggm). She married a William Frederick Coat(h)up sometime in the 1880's, believed to have lived in Bebbington, Cheshire, England at the time of their daughters birth, who was my grandmother, Ellen Coatup-Liddiard. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thankyou Teresa Adelaide Australia