Werner, I was fascinated by your account of Mr. Wurringen and the many old church records that are out there but probably unknown except by people such as you. Your comments on reading the old German script were reminescent of my first attempt at untangling them. I was ready to throw up my hands and surrender but decided to hang in there and give it a try. Amazingly I like you became proficient enough to be able to read the important things in those records. I wonder if you might be able to point me inthe right direction in my family research. I have gotten excellent information from the Catholic church records photagraphed by the LDS that go back to 1684. These records are for the towns of Illingen, Thalexweiler, Eppelborn and Marpingen in SAAR and Zülpich in RHEINLAND. Although my ancestors did not live in these towns, the churches were located there. Unfortunately, and I am sure that others have encountered a similar problem, I would like to go farther back but have no idea what information is out there that would enable me to do this. I have thus far, relied solely on Catholic church records. I know that there are books such as ORTSIPPENBUCHERS but do not know if there were any written for the towns that I have mentioned. Also if these books are in the LDS Family History Center at Salt Lake, they are not loaned out. I would appreciate your suggestions. Frank J. Kuhn flask1@worldnet.att.net