Ernst, Sounds like I posed a real hair-splitting question that only a lawyer would enjoy! I would really like to read more about the history of the Trier region. I have several volumes on German history, but they do not go into the level of detail I would like about this area. You are obviously very knowledgeable about its history. Can you recommend any good books? With effort, I can read German (but can write or speak only a little), so language is not a barrier. Thanks again for your wonderful detailed information. Kathy Lenerz Ernst Mettlach wrote: > > Kathy, > a really interesting question and not easy to answer! Definetely, your > gggrandfather was not born as a citizen of the Electorate of Trier. All > clerical Territories (except Mainz), 45 of the 51 immediate imperial cities > and most of the smaller principalties and counties in the german empire were > secularized and disintegrated in the so called > "Reichsdeputationshauptschluss" in 1803. So the Electorate of Trier ended > it`s existence de facto after french occupation in 1794 and de jure after > the treaty of Luneville and the Reichsdeputationshauptschluss in 1803. It > was never re-established. The territories on the right side of the Rhine > were given to Prussia (its Territory growed by 489%), Baden (738% growth), > Wuerttemberg (414%+) and Bavaria (144%+). France had taken the terr. left of > the Rhine in 1801. > I don`t know exactly, when it was clear, that Prussia would stay in the > Rhineland. They wanted it from the beginning on, but they had to negotiate a > lot with England, Austria and France who feared a hegemonic Prussia. After > the first Treaty of Paris in March 30, 1814, it was not so clear. The > territories of the former french departement de la sarre (but only the parts > on the right side of the river Mosel) were ruled by a mixed > bavarian-austrian interim-administration with seat in Bad Kreuznach. In > January 1815 it was clear, that Prussia could annect the Rhineland, after > giving up its claims on the Kingdom of Saxonia in East/Middle Germany. In > May 1815, the Prussians proclamated the unification of Trier and Prussia, > this act was confirmed by the Vienna Congress (were Europe was reorganised) > in June 1815. > So your gggrandfather was born right in the gap between french and prussian > rule. I can`t tell you what this area was by law, this is a difficult case > for students of international law. But in a way this is hair-splitting, > because powerful prussian troops were garrisoned in the forts of the region > (Napoleon fled from Elba/Mediteranean Sea in March 1815 and threatened the > region again with his army) and one month after his birth, it was clear that > Prussia made the race. So it is more proper to say he was born in Prussia. > Again, this is a very interesting topic. I will research it, if I have more > time (if this will ever happen!) or ask someone who knows history of this > time better than me. > > Ernst Mettlach > Trier/Deutschland > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kathy Lenerz <[email protected]> > To: Ernst Mettlach <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 4:13 PM > Subject: Re: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Historical boundaries > > > Ernst, > > Thanks for your detailed account of the historical situation of those > times > > and the maps. Previous maps and histories I had found just simply did not > > give me the detail I was looking for. > > > > Your information leads to further questions: > > So if my gggrandfather was born in December, 1814 in Britten, what > > country/political jurisdiction would you say that occurred in? Limbo? If > > the Peace Treaty of Paris removed that area from France in March, 1814, > did > > it also give that area to Prussia at that time? Or did Prussia not > > formally own that territory until May, 1815 when the unification was > > declared? If in the interim between March, 1814 and May, 1815 that area > > was just militarily ruled by Prussia, would it be more proper to say he > was > > born in the Electorate of Trier or in Prussia? > > Thanks again for your help, > > Kathy Lenerz > >