Barbara, Cologne was never part of the (arch)bishopric of Trier. Since roman times, it is an own diocese (the first bishop was Maternus in 313/14). Until 1803, the archbishop of Trier was the so called "Metropolit" for all dioceses in the region called "Rheinische Kirchenprovinz" (this means, he was higher in clerical hierarchy) After 1803, this changed. Trier was no longer an archbishopric and the archbishop of Cologne is the Metropolit now. E.g., if Trier gets a new bishop, it`s the job of the archbishop of Cologne to lead this ceremony. Regards Ernst Mettlach, Trier ----- Original Message ----- From: barbara schnubel <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Hoehnen/Hohnen > Hi, > > The only explanation I have is that Trier is not only a city but also an > archbishopric (a very old one with that). As archbishopric the territory > administered from Trier is a lot greater and could thus include Cologne. > I'm not absolutely sure and would have to verify but I think Cologne is > still in the archbishopric of Trier nowadays. > > Barbara > > > ----- Message d'origine ----- > De : "Joseph J & Maxine M. Capezza" <[email protected]> > À : <[email protected]> > Envoyé : vendredi 9 août 2002 05:28 > Objet : [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Hoehnen/Hohnen > > > > Hello List, > > I have a certificate for a great grandparent's marriage. It states his > > place of birth as Cologne Trier, Germany I see Cologne and I see Trier on > > the map. They are rather close, but don't seem to be connected in any > way. > > The date of the document is about 1831. > > Do you have any suggestions? > > Thanks for any help. > > > > Pray for Peace, > > Maxine Capezza > > > > > > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > > Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to > > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/TRIER-ROOTS.html > > to unsubscribe > > > > > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/TRIER-ROOTS.html > to unsubscribe >
Ernst, Thanks for the information. If I understand correctly before 1803 Cologne, even if it was not part of the archbishopric of Trier, was under some authority from Trier according to the hierarchy and since then it's exactly in the other way? You think this could explain the inscription of "Cologne, Trier" on the mariage certificate of Maxine's Grandfather? Since the mariage was in 1831, it should then be the other way around, no? Barbara ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "Ernst Mettlach" <[email protected]> À : <[email protected]> Envoyé : vendredi 9 août 2002 16:49 Objet : Re: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Hoehnen/Hohnen > Barbara, > > Cologne was never part of the (arch)bishopric of Trier. Since roman times, > it is an own diocese (the first bishop was Maternus in 313/14). > Until 1803, the archbishop of Trier was the so called "Metropolit" for all > dioceses in the region called "Rheinische Kirchenprovinz" (this means, he > was higher in clerical hierarchy) After 1803, this changed. Trier was no > longer an archbishopric and the archbishop of Cologne is the Metropolit now. > E.g., if Trier gets a new bishop, it`s the job of the archbishop of Cologne > to lead this ceremony. > > Regards > Ernst Mettlach, Trier > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: barbara schnubel <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 2:42 PM > Subject: Re: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Hoehnen/Hohnen > > > > Hi, > > > > The only explanation I have is that Trier is not only a city but also an > > archbishopric (a very old one with that). As archbishopric the territory > > administered from Trier is a lot greater and could thus include Cologne. > > I'm not absolutely sure and would have to verify but I think Cologne is > > still in the archbishopric of Trier nowadays. > > > > Barbara > > > > > > ----- Message d'origine ----- > > De : "Joseph J & Maxine M. Capezza" <[email protected]> > > À : <[email protected]> > > Envoyé : vendredi 9 août 2002 05:28 > > Objet : [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Hoehnen/Hohnen > > > > > > > Hello List, > > > I have a certificate for a great grandparent's marriage. It states his > > > place of birth as Cologne Trier, Germany I see Cologne and I see Trier > on > > > the map. They are rather close, but don't seem to be connected in any > > way. > > > The date of the document is about 1831. > > > Do you have any suggestions? > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > > > Pray for Peace, > > > Maxine Capezza > > > > > > > > > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > > > Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to > > > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/TRIER-ROOTS.html > > > to unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > > Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to > > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/TRIER-ROOTS.html > > to unsubscribe > > > > > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/TRIER-ROOTS.html > to unsubscribe >
Barbara, you understood me correctly. I don`t think this could explain the case of Maxine`s Grandfather. To be the Metropolit of a province is more a symbolic thing and a honorary title for clerics. Most normal catholics don´t know who or what a Metropolit is. I really have no idea what "Cologne Trier" means. Ernst ----- Original Message ----- From: barbara schnubel <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Hoehnen/Hohnen > Ernst, > > Thanks for the information. If I understand correctly before 1803 Cologne, > even if it was not part of the archbishopric of Trier, was under some > authority from Trier according to the hierarchy and since then it's exactly > in the other way? You think this could explain the inscription of "Cologne, > Trier" on the mariage certificate of Maxine's Grandfather? Since the > mariage was in 1831, it should then be the other way around, no? > > Barbara > > > ----- Message d'origine ----- > De : "Ernst Mettlach" <[email protected]> > À : <[email protected]> > Envoyé : vendredi 9 août 2002 16:49 > Objet : Re: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Hoehnen/Hohnen > > > > Barbara, > > > > Cologne was never part of the (arch)bishopric of Trier. Since roman times, > > it is an own diocese (the first bishop was Maternus in 313/14). > > Until 1803, the archbishop of Trier was the so called "Metropolit" for all > > dioceses in the region called "Rheinische Kirchenprovinz" (this means, he > > was higher in clerical hierarchy) After 1803, this changed. Trier was no > > longer an archbishopric and the archbishop of Cologne is the Metropolit > now. > > E.g., if Trier gets a new bishop, it`s the job of the archbishop of > Cologne > > to lead this ceremony. > > > > Regards > > Ernst Mettlach, Trier > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: barbara schnubel <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 2:42 PM > > Subject: Re: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Hoehnen/Hohnen > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > The only explanation I have is that Trier is not only a city but also an > > > archbishopric (a very old one with that). As archbishopric the > territory > > > administered from Trier is a lot greater and could thus include Cologne. > > > I'm not absolutely sure and would have to verify but I think Cologne is > > > still in the archbishopric of Trier nowadays. > > > > > > Barbara > > > > > > > > > ----- Message d'origine ----- > > > De : "Joseph J & Maxine M. Capezza" <[email protected]> > > > À : <[email protected]> > > > Envoyé : vendredi 9 août 2002 05:28 > > > Objet : [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Hoehnen/Hohnen > > > > > > > > > > Hello List, > > > > I have a certificate for a great grandparent's marriage. It states > his > > > > place of birth as Cologne Trier, Germany I see Cologne and I see > Trier > > on > > > > the map. They are rather close, but don't seem to be connected in any > > > way. > > > > The date of the document is about 1831. > > > > Do you have any suggestions? > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > > > > > Pray for Peace, > > > > Maxine Capezza > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > > > > Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to > > > > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/TRIER-ROOTS.html > > > > to unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > > > Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to > > > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/TRIER-ROOTS.html > > > to unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > > Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to > > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/TRIER-ROOTS.html > > to unsubscribe > > > > > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/TRIER-ROOTS.html > to unsubscribe >