please change my email address to solon@inav.net some joker has been using my old one! Thanks! barb barbara barrett kitterman shepherd

I am doing research on my gggrandfather Peter White who came from Elvange, Belgium in the 1830-40's. I understand that Elvange lies in the Grand Duchy now. It is my understanding from family legend that the name White is the translation of his European name which I am guessing is Weis. In some family records his name is given as Peter (Vice) White. Vice probably being the pronunciation of Weis. He was born in 1832, and worked for a village shoemaker before running away from home due to abuse from his stepfather, so the story goes. It was supposed that Elvange was a port town so we were unable to find it until learning that Luxembourg was part of Belgium in the 1830s. I need direction as to how to pinpoint where Peter was from such as addresses for local historian, or local parish priest that might have birth records. Now that I have a town and date of birth, the biggest jump is the Belgian surname. Many thanks, Robert White

To all the listers who answered my post concerning Werner: Thanks for you answers and also expressing you concerns. Werner is fine, now. Ron

Please renive ny nane from your mail listings for now. hhh@telepath.com

the permission was from Prussian government - not German government as it didn't exist then in 1846. Most didn't bother to ask for permission to leave Prussia. They would have left through Antwerp, Rotterdam, LeHavre, or nearby ports under those circumstances. W. David Samuelsen Keith Kurtz wrote: > > On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, "Michael Palmer" <mpalmer@netcom.com> wrote: > > Der Ackerer Johann Loesch, 43 Jahre, mit seiner Frau Katharina Fuchs, > 44 Jahre, und den Kindern Peter, 15 Jahre; Katharina, 13 Jahre; > Barbara, 11 Jahre; Johann, 9 Jahre; Jakob, 4 Jahre; und Maria, 6 > Monate. Of Uchtelfangen [now part of D-66557 Illingen]. Permission > to emigrate to the U.S.A., 26 June 1846. > > I can not find the word Ackerer, but I found that acker is to till or > of the land I thought Ackerer is a farmer but there was another word > in the dictionary for farmer. Could Ackerer be the land owner or > perhaps a farm laborer and not a farmer? > > Who gave the permission to emigrate, The German Government, or was it > permission from the US government to enter the US? > > What German government would have been in power in Uchtelfangen at that time? > > According to my other records Peter should have been 17 in 1846, My > Aunt once told me that her great grandparents (Johann) had emigrated > to keep Peter from having to go to war. What where the laws like > regarding military service ? If they they had admitted he was 17 > could he have left the country? Was there a specific war going on or > just the never ending fueds? > > I am trying to find the ship they sailed on. Once permission was > granted to leave how long would they have to wait to get a boat and > from what port would they have likely taken? > > Your help and patience is appreciated. > Keith Kurtz

I am new to German research. I am searching for Jacob Friss. He was on the Livingston Manor Account Books in Columbia County New York in 1779. Is this a name associated with a particular area or emigration route? Thank you. Lois Friss, USA

Really need some help on this one. I have thus far been quite successful in documenting and finding ancestors from Saar with one notable exception. That exception is finding information concerning emigration. I have lost count of the number of letters that I have written and in most cases go unanswered. JACOB WILHELM and wife ANNA MARIA SCHMITand 5 children lived in ASCHBACH/ASBACH near THALEXWEILER. They turn up frequently in the Catholic Church records for Thalexweiler until 1837. This entry is the birth date of one of their children. After this date, they disappear from the records of that parish. The earliest record in the U.S. is an entry in a Baltimore City Directory in 1842. It appears that the family left Germany between 1837 and 1842. I have written to the town of Eppelborn and various other people and places in that area and have never received an answer. Can anyone give me information on where to find the date of departure and port of arrival and also permission to emigrate for this family? I have searched some of the U.S. passenger Arrival Records(Baltimore, Philadelphia) but have drawn a blank there also. Any suggestions? Frank Kuhn flask1@worldnet.att.net

On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, "Michael Palmer" <mpalmer@netcom.com> wrote: Der Ackerer Johann Loesch, 43 Jahre, mit seiner Frau Katharina Fuchs, 44 Jahre, und den Kindern Peter, 15 Jahre; Katharina, 13 Jahre; Barbara, 11 Jahre; Johann, 9 Jahre; Jakob, 4 Jahre; und Maria, 6 Monate. Of Uchtelfangen [now part of D-66557 Illingen]. Permission to emigrate to the U.S.A., 26 June 1846. I can not find the word Ackerer, but I found that acker is to till or of the land I thought Ackerer is a farmer but there was another word in the dictionary for farmer. Could Ackerer be the land owner or perhaps a farm laborer and not a farmer? Who gave the permission to emigrate, The German Government, or was it permission from the US government to enter the US? What German government would have been in power in Uchtelfangen at that time? According to my other records Peter should have been 17 in 1846, My Aunt once told me that her great grandparents (Johann) had emigrated to keep Peter from having to go to war. What where the laws like regarding military service ? If they they had admitted he was 17 could he have left the country? Was there a specific war going on or just the never ending fueds? I am trying to find the ship they sailed on. Once permission was granted to leave how long would they have to wait to get a boat and from what port would they have likely taken? Your help and patience is appreciated. Keith Kurtz _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Hi folks, I received valuable information, not to long ago, about the town of Fliessem, Germany from Werner Lichter, a volunteer on Trier-Roots List, who lives in Gilzem, in the Eifel lowlands in Germany. I have not seen any posts from him on the list for a couple of months and I'm wondering if he is OK or not. If YOU have any information about his well being, please contact me. Ron Holmquist bigswede@compsurf.com

> I have information that my great-grandfather was born in Grava Cros > Heart Luxenburg. I cannot find this town on any map. Any help would be > appreciated. > > Thanks, > Larry Larry - I do not believe there is any town in current Luxembourg with a name anything like Grava Cros Heart. I presume this is a phonetic spelling, but even then... nothing. Give us a bit more detail... family name(s), dates, related towns, etc. and we might be able to help. I would also suggest that you post on the Luxembourg-specific GenWeb board at http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/Luxembourg/General. While Trier-Roots includes Luxembourg, I think you would have more success over there. Tom

I have information that my great-grandfather was born in Grava Cros Heart Luxenburg. I cannot find this town on any map. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Larry

Jakob MAYER and Rosalie LAZARUS of Trier had a bunch of kids. They starting come to the USA in 1909. Jakob died in Trier when is unknown. I am trying to locate date(s) Ella would have married Leopold Kahn Of Luxembourg. 1. Moritz > 2. Leopold > 3. Fannie > 4. Frederick > 5. Babette > 6. Ella > 7. Sally > 8. Anna > 9. Leah > 10. Ernestina > 11. Clara > 12. Hermina > >13. Freida was twin to Helmie(sp) > 14. Julius. Lillian Kahn Simons Dedham, MA USA Ladylblu@aol.com

Because this region was occupied by France, they also had to use the French Revolution Calendar between 1793 and 1805. So I = 1792, II = 1793 up to XIV = 1805. The names of the month were: Vendémiaire, Brumaire, Frimaire, Nivôse, Pluviôse, Ventôse, Germinal, Floréal, Prairial, Messidor, Thermidor, Fructidor. Each month had 30 days and to complete the year there were 5 additional days (for leap years 6). Between 1793 and 31.Mar.1802 the month had no weeks but three parts (decades) with ten numbered days (f. e. primidi, duodi, tridi …). With the help of some tables you are able to translate this dates in “normal” dates. I believe they are available at your FHC. The 'Tables dâecennales' are an ten years register for birth (Naissances), mariage and death (dâecáes) in a town or village. If you find your ancestor there Regards Axel -----Original Message----- From: JKorman377@aol.com [mailto:JKorman377@aol.com] Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 2:08 AM To: TRIER-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Re: TRIER-ROOTS-D Digest V99 #272 Re: Schiwajs, As I am guessing, my answers may not be correct. The first looks like an insertion for a Dicennial (ten year table) The second line might months of a given year. Lux at ths time was a thirld world country and very poor and backward. Regards, JimK, Lux grandchild Because this region was occupied by France, they also had to use the French Revolution Calendar between 1793 and 1805. So I = 1792, II = 1793 up to XIV = 1805. I think an is the french word for year. The names of the month were: Vendémiaire, Brumaire, Frimaire, Nivôse, Pluviôse, Ventôse, Germinal, Floréal, Prairial, Messidor, Thermidor, Fructidor. Each month had 30 days and to complete the year there were 5 additional days for every year(for leap years 6). Between 1793 and 31.Mar.1802 the month had no weeks but three parts (decades) with ten numbered days (f. e. primidi, duodi, tridi …). With the help of some tables you are able to translate this dates in “normal” dates. I believe this tables are available at the FHC. The 'Tables dâecennales' are a ten years register for the records of birth, marriage and death in each town or village. Therefore if you find your ancestor in the 'Tables dâecennales' you will find his record in the record books (Naissances, mariages, dâecáes an VI-1823 (Dellen)). Regards Axel

You will find the Decennial Indexes for all the towns and villages - for the time period between 1806/10 to 1869 or 1872 – in those parts of Germany which were annexed by France under the rule of Napoleon. There was a French law in 20.Sept. 1792 which started the civil registration in France. After the French revolution army occupied Germany on the left side of the Rhine river (1792-1794) - this part of Germany was annexed in 1797 - the law took effect for the new founded Departements of Rur (Roer), Saar, Rhine and Moselle on 12.Floreal VI (1.May 1798). In the Departements of Ourthe (Eifel region)and Niedermaas it became effective on 29.Praerial IV (17.Jun.1796) and later also in other occupied and annexed regions. An decree of Napoleon (20.Jul.1807) established the Decennial Indexes - all over the annexed territories - which were demanded by the law of 1792. After Napoleon was defeated the situation changed again. In those parts of the former annexed territories which belonged to Prussia before 1806 the old Prussian laws were established again on 1.Jan. 1815 (allgemeines preussisches Landrecht), in the area of the modern administration districts (Regierungsbezirke) of Duesseldorf and Cologne and in the northern part of the administration district of Koblenz the "French civil law" became the "Rheinische civil law" (with little modifications) and in other parts of the administration district of Koblenz the old ecclesiastical rights - from the time this area belonged to Nassau - took effect again. (registration only in chuchbooks) There was no standardized law about civil registration until the German Empire was founded in 1871 and a new law about civil registration took effect on 1.Jan.1876. (From "Die Zivilstandsregister und die Kirchenbuchduplikate im Nordrhein-Westfälischen Personenstandsarchiv Rheinland, published by the staate archives in Nordrhein Westfalen) Regards Axel axel@bolle.de -----Original Message----- From: W. David Samuelsen [mailto:dsam@wasatch.com] Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 5:19 AM To: TRIER-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Re: TRIER-ROOTS-D Digest V99 #272 Luxembourg wasn't backward as you imply it to be. In fact Luxembourg has by far better record-keeping compared to Germany! Decennial indexes are along the best. Where else can you find the indexes for every commune (community) like that? JKorman377@aol.com wrote: > > Re: Schiwajs, > > As I am guessing, my answers may not be correct. > The first looks like an insertion for a Dicennial (ten year table) > The second line might months of a given year. Lux at ths time was a thirld > world country and very poor and backward. > > Regards, > JimK, Lux grandchild > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== Support RootsWeb! Help provide FREE genealogical resources on the Internet: http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html

Luxembourg wasn't backward as you imply it to be. In fact Luxembourg has by far better record-keeping compared to Germany! Decennial indexes are along the best. Where else can you find the indexes for every commune (community) like that? JKorman377@aol.com wrote: > > Re: Schiwajs, > > As I am guessing, my answers may not be correct. > The first looks like an insertion for a Dicennial (ten year table) > The second line might months of a given year. Lux at ths time was a thirld > world country and very poor and backward. > > Regards, > JimK, Lux grandchild >

---Is the name BEHRENDORFF common in your area? I have been researching this name in the north east of Germany as that is where it first appears in 1840, but he could have come from anywhere. I see that there is a village named Behrendorf and I wrote a letter to a person listed in the phone book there, but no reply as yet. this village is in the north of Germany. Kay Gassan

While researching Civil Registrations for the city of Dellen, Luxembourg at my local LDS FHC this past Saturday, I ran across several entries with terms I did not understand. I've included the Family History Library Catalog entry for Dellen/Grosbous, Luxembourg in the hope that someone can tell me what might be contained in the 'Tables dâecennales' and also tell me what the Roman numerals in the following two entries indicate. Naissances, mariages, dâecáes an VI-1823 (Dellen) Naissances (Grosbous) an VI-XII Jim Schiwal Douglasville, GA ==================== FHLC Entry=============== CONTENTS Civil registration of ten-year indexes, births, marriages, deaths for Grosbous, Luxembourg. Includes Dellen and Merscheid (until 1827). Text alternates between French and German. Comprend tables alphabâetiques annuelles. EUROPE FILM AREA Tables dâecennales (Dellen) 1803-1832 ------------------ 1794237 Tables dâecennales (Grosbous) 1803-1872 item 6. Tables dâecennales (Grosbous) 1873-1892 ------------------ 1794238 Naissances, mariages, dâecáes an VI-1823 (Dellen) Naissances (Grosbous) an VI-XII Naissances, mariages, dâecáes an XIII Naissances an XIV-1890 Mariages (Grosbous) an VI-XII, XIV-1834 Mariages 1835-1890 ----------------- 1794239 Dâecáes (Grosbous) an VI-XII, XIV-1890 item 1-3 Tables dâecennales 1893-1902 ------------------ 1922360 Naissances, mariages, dâecáes 1891-1894 item 22-23.

Joannes Geiffes, (1827-1903) wife Maria Eva Lemmler,(1831-1874) children: Margaret and Nickolaus, emigrated from Bad Bertrich 1858 to Schenectady, NY. Searching for departure area in Germany-also with them, the Johann (John) family members. Other families I am researching: Justen, Trautzenberg, Daus, Marx, Niels, Zensen (Zens), Dras (Drees), Bins, Kraemer, Hieronymi, Conen, Conradi, Cremer. etc., all from the Eifel area. please e-mail direct if you have any connections! thanks joan

Hi Everyone I am a new member and am not sure if I am on the correct list. I am trying to trace my family that originated from the town of Fahr in Germany. After doing a search for the town of Fahr I came up with the following: Fahr Part of: NeuwiedGKZ : 07 1 38 045 County : | | +---- Neuwied {NR} RegBez : | +------- Koblenz Land : +--------- Rheinland-Pfalz ZIP : 5656? Fahr (Unterfr)Part of: VolkachGKZ : 09 6 75 174 County : | | +---- Kitzingen {KT} RegBez : | +------- Unterfranken Land : +--------- Bayern ZIP : 97332 Johann NEFDT, Fahr DEU, arrived South Africa in the employ of the Dutch East Indies Company as a soldier in 1786, became a Tailor and married in 1791. I am looking for ANY references to NEFDT. Thank you Wayne NEFDT South Africa The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.

Re: Schiwajs, As I am guessing, my answers may not be correct. The first looks like an insertion for a Dicennial (ten year table) The second line might months of a given year. Lux at ths time was a thirld world country and very poor and backward. Regards, JimK, Lux grandchild