In a message dated 9/17/99 9:32:25 PM Central Daylight Time, TRIER-ROOTS-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: << I have been going through Catholic church records from Ollmuth and Britten from about 1800-1880. From the baptismal records it appears that there was a naming convention-- children were named after their baptismal sponsor. I know that my family continued the practice for one generation after emigrating to the states. Can anyone tell me if naming children after their godparent is still the practice in the Trier region? Thanks for your help, Kathy Lenerz >> Kathy: I have extensive records for one of our Moselle valley families.....every single child was named after the godparent. Regards, Melissa

Robert, When you wrote I was under the apparently mistaken understanding that for a very brief period of time, like 1830-1839, that Luxembourg could have been considered a part of Belgium to the extent that a person born in Luxembourg could be said to have actually been born in Belgium........... You bring up an interesting point, LDS film #1423989 says that my grandfather, Jean Henri Victor Schoos was born in Chassepierre, Province of Luxembourg Belgium.July 1, 1833 BUT Father Ducat and Sylvan Gardien , both in Belgium, told me that he was born in Bofferdange Luxembourg on July 13,1833. I have tried to get them to tell me where they got their information but I don't get any reply and incidently, both his father and mother were from Bofferdange so you see you may not be mistaken. Hopefully someone on the list can help clear this up. Maurice Schoos in Rhode Island,USA

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Dear Stephen, I believe I am the one who caused such a stir in whether Luxembourg was ever part of Belgium or not. The question came about as I was trying to determine how it could be said that my gggrandfather was from Elvange Belgium when Elvange is in Luxembourg. One person proposed that the Belgium designation was given to distinguish it from the other Elvange locations. This is plausible. I was under the apparently mistaken understanding that for a very brief period of time, like 1830-1839, that Luxembourg could have been considered a part of Belgium to the extent that a person born in Luxembourg could be said to have actually been born in Belgium. I am still in the process of trying to verify whether Elvange in Beckerich Luxembourg is the location where I need to be searching. Robert White-searching for Peter White-possibly Wies, or other alt spellings.

Is anyone else experiencing unsolicited email from people you don't know? I am getting email from a person who apparently got my name off of one of the German lists with rootsweb and now I can't seem to stop this person from emailing me jokes and etc that do not pertain to genealogy. I have no idea who they are. Is anyone else getting anything like this? Mindy

still off mark - here's the correct timeline. Luxembourg had whole area. Belgium took west part in Third Partion in 1839 (NOT 1830!). The French took Thioxville region south of Luxembourg in first Parition. 1795 French revolutionary armies occupied Luxembourg after long siege 1795-1814 French rule 1815 Grand Duchy under personal rule of Willem I of Netherlands but joined to the new German Confederation rather than Kingdom of the Netherlands. Eastern third annexed by Prussia (Second Partition of Luxembourg). Prussian garrison installed in fortress. 1830 Belgians revolted against Dutch rule and established their independence. 1830-1839 Period of Joint Rule. Luxembourg sent delegates to Belgian Congress but Prussian troops held city of Luxembourg for Dutch king. 1839 First Treaty of London (Third Partition of Luxembourg), French-speaking western part of Grand Duchy became of Belgian province of Luxembourg. Luxembourg continued as Grand Duchy under rule of Dutch Kings and remained part of German Confederation. 1867 Prussian garrison left Luxembourg under Second Treaty of London, recognizing Luxembourg's neutrality. 1890 Willem III of Netherlands died, daughter Wilhelmina became Queen but Luxembourg's constitution forbided such succession, Adolf of Nassau-Weilburg became Grand Duke of Luxembourg. 1912 Marie Adelaide, granddaughter of Adolf became Grand Duchess after the change made to the consititution of Luxembourg between 1890-1912. She abdicated in favor of her sister Charlotte, mother of current Grand Duke Jean. W. David Samuelsen Stephen Dillard wrote: > > Dr. Richard Waxweiler wrote > > "Incidentally there was a statement in this group last week that Luxembourg > belonged to Belgium. This has never been true! Luxembourg used to be an > part of the German Empire. The name Luxembourg is derived from the > old German word for it: Luetzelburg, that means small castle. > Only Belgium was founded (made) in 1830 as a result of a power play between > the > great powers in Europe: England, France and Germany. The territories were > the > German-Austrian Netherlands. It were in danger to be invaded and > incorporated by > the French again (the French are always hungry, aren't they). To hinder that > the > state > of Belgium was founded. So it was an artificial foundation. The name > Belgium > is derived by the name of an old German tribe which lived there." > > Yes, but.... let us remember these things. Luxembourg was, as a whole, once > part of the kingdom of the Netherlands when it was created in 1815. When > Belgium was created when the predominantly French portions of Holland > rebelled against the house of Orange in 1830, Luxembourg was partitioned. > The western 2/3rds of the country remained with Belgium, and the Eastern > 1/3rd chose to become a part of Prussia, and it was occupied by Prussian > troops who held it for the King of Holland until 1839. > > William II and William III, kings of Holland, became grand dukes of > Luxembourg (I.E., what was not Belgian Luxembourg), and a concordat was > reached whereupon the death of William III, Willhemenia, his daughter would > become queen of Holland and another relative, Adolph, would become grand > duke of an independent Luxembourg. > > His granddaughter, Marie-Adele firstly tried to stop German troops in W.W.I > at the border by parking her car across the main road. (She was politely > escorted back to her castle). But, in 1917, she paid a state visit to > Bavaria, where she announced the engagement of her youngest sister to a > German prince, I BELIEVE, the son of the Kaiser. After the war was over, > she was denounced as a collaborationist, forced to abdicate, and join a > convent. Her next youngest sister, Charlotte, took the throne, which she > held until her abdication in the early 1960's in favor of the current Grand > Duke, Jean. Charlotte's first challenge as ruler was in 1922, when a > referendum on whether Luxembourg would remain independent or join with > Belgium was taken, and the plebiscite defeated. > > It is ironic to note that today, the Luxembourgeoise Franc is valued as > equal to the Belgian Franc, and that the wife of Hereditary Duke Henri (Heir > to the throne) is a daughter of the Royal House of Belgium. > > I got some of my information from > http://www.rootsweb.com/~luxwgw/luxchron.htm , a chronology of Luxembourg. > > Write if you want cuss me out, > > Stephen > > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > Support RootsWeb! Help provide FREE genealogical resources on the > Internet: http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html

Dr. Richard Waxweiler wrote "Incidentally there was a statement in this group last week that Luxembourg belonged to Belgium. This has never been true! Luxembourg used to be an part of the German Empire. The name Luxembourg is derived from the old German word for it: Luetzelburg, that means small castle. Only Belgium was founded (made) in 1830 as a result of a power play between the great powers in Europe: England, France and Germany. The territories were the German-Austrian Netherlands. It were in danger to be invaded and incorporated by the French again (the French are always hungry, aren't they). To hinder that the state of Belgium was founded. So it was an artificial foundation. The name Belgium is derived by the name of an old German tribe which lived there." Yes, but.... let us remember these things. Luxembourg was, as a whole, once part of the kingdom of the Netherlands when it was created in 1815. When Belgium was created when the predominantly French portions of Holland rebelled against the house of Orange in 1830, Luxembourg was partitioned. The western 2/3rds of the country remained with Belgium, and the Eastern 1/3rd chose to become a part of Prussia, and it was occupied by Prussian troops who held it for the King of Holland until 1839. William II and William III, kings of Holland, became grand dukes of Luxembourg (I.E., what was not Belgian Luxembourg), and a concordat was reached whereupon the death of William III, Willhemenia, his daughter would become queen of Holland and another relative, Adolph, would become grand duke of an independent Luxembourg. His granddaughter, Marie-Adele firstly tried to stop German troops in W.W.I at the border by parking her car across the main road. (She was politely escorted back to her castle). But, in 1917, she paid a state visit to Bavaria, where she announced the engagement of her youngest sister to a German prince, I BELIEVE, the son of the Kaiser. After the war was over, she was denounced as a collaborationist, forced to abdicate, and join a convent. Her next youngest sister, Charlotte, took the throne, which she held until her abdication in the early 1960's in favor of the current Grand Duke, Jean. Charlotte's first challenge as ruler was in 1922, when a referendum on whether Luxembourg would remain independent or join with Belgium was taken, and the plebiscite defeated. It is ironic to note that today, the Luxembourgeoise Franc is valued as equal to the Belgian Franc, and that the wife of Hereditary Duke Henri (Heir to the throne) is a daughter of the Royal House of Belgium. I got some of my information from http://www.rootsweb.com/~luxwgw/luxchron.htm , a chronology of Luxembourg. Write if you want cuss me out, Stephen

Hi Everyone, I have a question, where does a person look for records, when you have reached the end of the road of records that L D S has filmed? I have traced my ancestors to the early 1700's, no more records from churches or civil. Any ideas? Thanks Florence

please hold email from 9/20 to 9/30. Thanks Mary Jochum

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: <DFKII@aol.com> An: <TRIER-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. September 1999 05:14 Betreff: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] French notations > Where are our historians? How could we miss the point that the territory all > the way to the Rhine River has been controlled by the French on and off for > some very significant periods during the last 1000 years! Well, only a few times in the last 1000 years! After the 30-years brother-war in Germany 1618-1648 Germany was weak and France (Louis 14th) and others took her chance annexed and plundered Germany (and Luxembourg) during some centuries until about 1710. Then again Germany was attacked and exploited by the French between 1794 and 1814. The French were defeated in 1813 near Leipzig. There was a congress to sort the new situation after the defeat. It took place in the German capital of those times, in Vienna and became known as the Vienna congress. And then after the first and the second world war Germany was invaded by the French. Between 1940 and 1945 France was defeated and occupied by Germany. >The > French revolution reached all the way to Koblenz. Napolean rewrote the map (only betwen 1794-1813) > of the area and legislative control. Why not French? > Don Kilburg It was not the French Revolution that reached all the way to Koblenz! After the French revolution in 1789 (which was after all a fascistic revolution) the French in 1794 invaded Germany and other territories. First only the left side of the Rhine river. Then after 1806 all of the German Empire. This was the end of the first German Empire after lasting over 1000 years. Incidentely there was a statement in this group last week that Luxembourg belonged to Belgium. This has never been true! Luxembourg used to be an part of the German Empire. The name Luxembourg is derived from the old German word for it: Luetzelburg, that means small castle. Only Belgium was founded (made) in 1830 as a result of a power play between the great powers in Europe: England, France and Germany. The territories were the German-Austrian Netherlands. It were in danger to be invaded and incorporated by the French again (the French are always hungry, aren't they). To hinder that the state of Belgium was founded. So it was an artificial foundation. The name Belgium is derived by the name of an old German tribe which lived there. Sincerely Richard Dr. Richard Waxweiler Berlin, Deutschland/Germany dr.richard@waxweiler.de www.waxweiler.de

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: W. David Samuelsen <dsam@wasatch.com> An: <TRIER-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. September 1999 05:43 Betreff: Re: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] French notations > If you will stop and take a closer look - the International Postal > Treaty is written in English and French. Both are only official > languages. > W. David Samuelsen Hello, in accordance with the postal treaty you have always two languages: French (as the universal postal language) and the local language; i.e. English and French in the US, German and French in Germany, Dutch and French in Holland etc. Richard Dr. Richard Waxweiler Berlin, Deutschland/Germany dr.richard@waxweiler.de www.waxweiler.de

>>>I do not recognize the term Kurfurstenum Trier. Could there be a misspelling? > >>>And what does the term Kurfurstenum Trier signify? Hello Listers, yes it is a misspelling! The right spelling is _ Kurfuerstentum_ (ue = u with two dots = Umlaut) A Kurfuerstentum was a region of power in the hands of a Kurfuerst. A Kurfuerst was a souvereign, a prince, who elected the Kaiser. Greetings Dr. Richard Waxweiler Berlin, Deutschland/Germany dr.richard@waxweiler.de www.waxweiler.de

I am looking for any information about the FINGEN & FROMBACH families that left Bettembourg, Germany (now Luxembourg) around 1725. They migrated to the Banat region in Austria-Hungry. Charles Furtaw

Thank you to Dr. Waxweiler for giving us a better understanding of the influence of those "hungry" French in the Electorate of Trier. One group he did not mention was the family of the Counts of Vianden whose beautifully restored castle is on the Our river in present day Luxembourg. In the thirteenth century their counties extended from Hainault (Henegau) in the west to the Eifel in the east. They were Advocats of the abbey at Prum (of Pepin and Charlemagne--or Karl de Gros, if you prefer--fame). Heinrich I (perhaps Henri' would be more appropriate), "the Sun Count" was married to Margarite d'Courtenay of the French royal family by way of the Latin Kingdom of Constantinople. Though today we consider their Eifel territories to be German, Heinrich died on Crusade with his wife's cousin, St. Louis, King of France. I suspect their was a fair amount of French spoken in their house and region. I also suspect its boundries were frequently the source of the many conflicts with the house of Luxembourg and the Prince/Archbishop/Elector of Trier, a position that was frequently held by a member of the house of Luxembourg. French continues to have a pervasive influence on language in Luxembourg, perhaps more so since WWII. The traditional dialect of the Mosel River valley also has enough French influence to make a northern German wince. Don Kilburg

Hello John & the list, My GRUNDHAUSER ancestors from Neunhausen were "quartered" in Lenauhem during the mid-1780's. I do not recognize the term Kurfurstenum Trier, and my on-line locator doesn't either. Could there be a misspelling? I could recommend a couple of good web sites for pursuing more related information. For German/Hungarian/Latin/English genealogical term translations, go to http://bigjohn.bmi.net/jjaso/ To pursue more research into the records of the [Banat] region where Lenauheim is located, go to http://www2.genealogy.net/gene/reg/ESE/dsrec.html#ofb Or try your query on the Banat List [BANAT-L@rootsweb.com] John Kronberger Littleton, Colorado > -----Original Message----- > From: Jawnsa@aol.com [SMTP:Jawnsa@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 12:06 PM > To: TRIER-ROOTS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Balerier Family > > The Lenauheim homepage cites the BALBIERER family from Kurfurstenum Trier, > > according to the church register, as one of the 54 original families to > settle in Lenauheim in the Banat (1767). > > Does anyone have any further information about the BALBIERER family or the > > other 53 families? And what does the term Kurfurstenum Trier signify? > > Thank you. > > John Muth > Worthington, Ohio, USA

-----Original Message----- From: mark galauner <galauner@stratos.net> To: TRIER-ROOTS-L-request@rootsweb.com <TRIER-ROOTS-L-request@rootsweb.com> Date: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 11:45 PM Subject: EIKENS, LOCHTE, LINDEMANN, VAN GIMPTE, FORSTMAN, BOUCK Hi! I am new to this list (I hope I am on the right one) and would like to share information with anyone researching the surnames EIKENS, LOCHTE, LINDEMANN, VAN GIMPTE, FORSTMAN, and BOUCK. Specific villages I am interested in are Rheine, Gronau and Epe. Anyone wanting to share information, please e-mail me at galauner@stratos.net. Thanks!

I have that book also Melissa, You are correct, it is very helpful. Arlene

Thank you for the information on the WALDBILLIGs. Lydia walsche@capital.net

The Lenauheim homepage cites the BALBIERER family from Kurfurstenum Trier, according to the church register, as one of the 54 original families to settle in Lenauheim in the Banat (1767). Does anyone have any further information about the BALBIERER family or the other 53 families? And what does the term Kurfurstenum Trier signify? Thank you. John Muth Worthington, Ohio, USA

Hello, I'm looking for any information specifically about Paul SOFFNER. Paul SOFFNER, born November 23, 1898 in Ziegenhals, Oberschlessien (for sure). He married on November 11, 1933 in Ziegenhals-Neuland, Oberschlessien. He wife was named Maria Elisabeth NENTWIG who died on March 22, 1991. She was born on June 20, 1909. She died and was buried in Mering, Bavaria, Germany, which is just outside of Augsburg Germany. Paul SOFFNER was either killed or died during WWII. While fighting in WWII, the rest of his family fled to Oberdorf, Bavaria and ever since lived. They fled because Polish soldiers started killing people of and the surrounding area of Ziegenhals, Oberschlessien. Paul SOFFNER's father was named August Soffner, born January 12, 1872 in Ziegenhals, Oberschlessien and married Theresia KARGER. She was born on June 1, 1868 in Winsdorf, Oberschlessien. Last known place lived was Weisswasser, Oberschlessien. In addition, if anyone can point me in the direction to find maps of the follwoing areas or scan them and send through e-mail: (1)Ziegenhals-Neuland (city or town) or (2)Oberschlessien (State) or (3)Schlessien (State) or (4)Winsdorf (city or town) or (5)Weisswasser (city or town) I sincerely thank you for your valuable time, effort, and generosity. Again, thank you for all of your help.