For all who have responded to my question about Roehl - this is a BIG Thank you! I have managed to find the birthplace of all my great great grandparents save 3... Two of them are from 'Trier' and I am hoping Roehl will be a lucky hunch! I know I am looking for the 'needle in the haystack' and really appreciate your help in pointing me in the right direction! Jeannette Harper Researching: Brand, Dittmer, Franke, Franzen, Hopp, Mai, Markgraf, Neander, Pimsner (and many more!)

Greetings, If I am allowed to plug my own web-site, Mitch Trier wrote an excellent history of Trier, which I have on my page as: http://shell.power-net.net/~joemiller/Trier_History.htm Subsequently, I was listening to a minister talking on the radio a couple of months ago describe the ancient city of Ninevah. To me it was very interesting in that both cities were built where two or three rivers come together, making only one side where a fortress is built to protect the inhabitants in time of battle. The connection between these two cities are not coincidental. St. Jerome went to Trier around 100 A.D. and discovered that the Trevari spoke nearly an identical language as that spoken by the Assyrians of the time. Hope this helps. P.S. Werner, sorry to hear about the losses in your family. I will keep them in my prayers tonight. Grüß, Joseph B. Miller Troy, Michigan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Werner Lichter" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Treves - Trier > Dear Thomas, > the name came from the name of the german race of the "Treverer" that > settled in this area around Trier before the romans came (and with them > in later times). The romans founded a city in 16 before Christ nearby > the capital santuary of the Treverer in the Mosel valley. The historiens > think that there must have been a settlement of the Treverer before the > roman foundation of their new city. The romans called it "Augusta > Treverorum", because of Kaiser Augustus in that year -16. This city > expanded and 300 year later it had arround 50.000 up to 70.000 > inhabitans, with about 1000 farms in the area 50 miles around. > In french the name is written Trèves and not Treves. In the area around > and in Trier they call it Trear/Treer. > > Werner Lichter > > ########################################### > > > > > Actually, the name "Treves" is the French translation of the original > > Latin name of the city (Trevirensis) now known by its German name: > > Trier. Does the name derive from the three rivers in the area (Mosel, > > Ruwer, Saar)? > > > > Thomas Kohn > > > > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > > Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to > > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/TRIER-ROOTS.html > > to unsubscribe > > > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/TRIER-ROOTS.html > to unsubscribe > >

Actually, the name "Treves" is the French translation of the original Latin name of the city (Trevirensis) now known by its German name: Trier. Does the name derive from the three rivers in the area (Mosel, Ruwer, Saar)? Thomas Kohn

Treves is the French name of Trier and thus the same city. Barbara ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "Charles Mallette" <[email protected]> À : <[email protected]> Envoyé : lundi 17 juin 2002 05:34 Objet : [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Michels Family of Wisconsin.... > I have been following, with a great deal of interest, the messages > of the past few days regarding the Michels family of Wisconsin, who > originally came from Holsthum (Treves), in the Rhineland. > > I don't believe much in coincidence, especially with German family > names. > > But first a question. The village of Holsthum, was it formerly > known as Treves? The modern city of Trier is some distance away, > regardless of the language used. I wondered at the connection of the > two names, if any. > > My wife descended from a Philip Michals, and he immigrated from the > Rhineland in the early 1850's. His Army discharge in 1865 gives has > place of birth as being Treever, Empire of Germany. [An error in the > spelling of Treever by an Army clerk?] > > I'm grasping at the well known straws, but could my Philip Michals > belong to the same family back in Germany as the Michels family in > Wisconsin? I have noted in the past that it is not at all unusual for > German family names to undergo a change on immigration, by accident or > by design. > > Suggestions are hoped for..... > > Chuck Mallette > > > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/TRIER-ROOTS.html > to unsubscribe >

Roehl is a bit SSE of Bitburg. Bitburg was both a city and a Kreis (land county) within the larger Regierungsbezirk (Civil Administration) of Trier, Rheinland. This area was formerly part of the Duchy of Luxembourg. After 1815 it was annexed to Prussia, and eventually Luxembourg became a Grand Duchy [a small reward to a county which gave up more than 2/3 of it's land in the 19th century to Prussia (i.e.Germany) and Belgium]. Gretchen Leisen

Jeannette, Roehl is just south of Bitburg. It is sometimes written Roehl Kreis Bitburg. On a map, find Trier. Then follow the B51 north to Bitburg. Look south of the B50, just east of Bitburg, but west of Speicher. Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeannette Harper Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 10:35 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Trier? Or elsewhere? Dear list members; You have provided me with so much information on this before unknown (to me) region I will pose one more question your way... I think I have managed to find my great great grandmother (Anna Franzen) and two of her siblings (Clara Franzen & Regina Franzen) on a ship passenger list. I'd like to know if the location given is (or was) found in or near Trier. The place they came from is listed as: Country: Prussia Last Residence: Roehl Thanks in advance to all! Jeannette Orangevale CA Researching: Brand, Franzen, Dittmer, Pimsner, Mai, Markgraf, Hopp, Neander, Helwig (and so many more...)Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

I too have had my eyes and ears perked with the discussion of the Michels family. My John or Peter or John Peter Michels who married an Anna Christine Bluemling/Blueming immigrated to Wisconsin around 1853-1855 and settled in Dane County with some of their children later going onto Richland County in Wisconsin. George, one of their sons was born in Koehln, Germany. I believe this is in the Trier area??? There are many Michels in the Trier area, but as you stated, these may somehow be all related, the ones in Wisconsin. Anyone our there that may have any clues or ideas on these people I would love to hear them. Kathy [email protected] Searching and Researching: Shields,Michels,Kennedy,Koenigs,Bluemling,Muldown,Thill,Evert, Ehlinger,Kraus,Sigler,Ellis,Beck,Geise,Werner,Poppingo,Loucks,Wiley,Cole,Wood/ Woods,Rippentrop,Cornue,Wessels,Toll,Rinckhout,Drinkvelt and many others.... In a message dated 6/16/02 8:26:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > I have been following, with a great deal of interest, the messages > of the past few days regarding the Michels family of Wisconsin, who > originally came from Holsthum (Treves), in the Rhineland. > > I don't believe much in coincidence, especially with German family > names. > > But first a question. The village of Holsthum, was it formerly > known as Treves? The modern city of Trier is some distance away, > regardless of the language used. I wondered at the connection of the > two names, if any. > > My wife descended from a Philip Michals, and he immigrated from the > Rhineland in the early 1850's. His Army discharge in 1865 gives has > place of birth as being Treever, Empire of Germany. [An error in the > spelling of Treever by an Army clerk?] > > I'm grasping at the well known straws, but could my Philip Michals > belong to the same family back in Germany as the Michels family in > Wisconsin? I have noted in the past that it is not at all unusual for > German family names to undergo a change on immigration, by accident or > by design. > >

I have been following, with a great deal of interest, the messages of the past few days regarding the Michels family of Wisconsin, who originally came from Holsthum (Treves), in the Rhineland. I don't believe much in coincidence, especially with German family names. But first a question. The village of Holsthum, was it formerly known as Treves? The modern city of Trier is some distance away, regardless of the language used. I wondered at the connection of the two names, if any. My wife descended from a Philip Michals, and he immigrated from the Rhineland in the early 1850's. His Army discharge in 1865 gives has place of birth as being Treever, Empire of Germany. [An error in the spelling of Treever by an Army clerk?] I'm grasping at the well known straws, but could my Philip Michals belong to the same family back in Germany as the Michels family in Wisconsin? I have noted in the past that it is not at all unusual for German family names to undergo a change on immigration, by accident or by design. Suggestions are hoped for..... Chuck Mallette

Dear list members; You have provided me with so much information on this before unknown (to me) region I will pose one more question your way... I think I have managed to find my great great grandmother (Anna Franzen) and two of her siblings (Clara Franzen & Regina Franzen) on a ship passenger list. I'd like to know if the location given is (or was) found in or near Trier. The place they came from is listed as: Country: Prussia Last Residence: Roehl Thanks in advance to all! Jeannette Orangevale CA Researching: Brand, Franzen, Dittmer, Pimsner, Mai, Markgraf, Hopp, Neander, Helwig (and so many more...)

Duane, A M&M (Ea?) Hartmann attended my great-grandfather's funeral ... In Loving Memory of Dr. Joseph Linger; Birth Place: Oconomowoc, Wisconsin; Date: November 10, 1871; Entered into Rest: October 5th, 1941 in Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin. Aged 69 years, 10 month and 45 Days-------Requiem Mass at St. Sebastian's on October 8, 1941 at 10 AM------Interment: Calvary Cemetery, Milwaukee, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin on October 8th, 1941. Susan [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kyle Lamers" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 8:19 PM Subject: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Nicholas Hartmann of Herforst near Speicher > > Nicholas Hartmann died at Herforst in 1836 at the age of 55. Records at the standesamt at Speicher, I believe, note that he had come from Arlon, the capital of the Belgian province of Luxembourg and very near the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg. He married Catharina Steffen at Herforst in 1804 and fathered eight children, including my gg grandmother Catharina Hartmann Bangart. I have not been able to locate any parish records at Arlon containing references to Nicholas and I am seeking more information about his ancestry. > > Duane E. Lamers [email protected] > > > > --------------------------------- > Do You Yahoo!? > Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup > > > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/TRIER-ROOTS.html > to unsubscribe > >

Posting new info which Werner found and wish to thank Werner publicly and personally! WOW!!! I always thought there was a family connection with the WEBER's, because they were sponsors/godparents on some of the baptismal records. There are also SCHNEIDERs in that same area: Petri Schneider married Apolonia Schmits and had the following children: John Schneider who married Ana Christina Holzhem (b. May 30, 1862-died ???). They were married on November 24, 1885. Records from St. Anthony's Catholic Church in Fussvile (Menomonee Falls), Wisconsin indicate that Anna Christina Holzhem was born 30 May 1862 and baptized 1 June 1862. Her baptismal sponsors were: Georgio MICHELS and Christina FUSS. Marriage record: She married on 24 November 1885 to Joannum Schneider of Minnesota, s/o Petrie Schneider and Apolonia Schmits (spelled as recorded in Catholic Records). Witnesses for the marriage included Engelberto Lehman and Ana Holzem. and Engelburt Schneider who married Ana Maria Holzhem. Ana Maria Holzhem was born on February 10, 1864 in Fussville, Waukesha County, Wisconsin. This marriage took place in 1877. Records from St. Anthony's Catholic Church in Fussvile (Menomonee Falls), Wisconsin indicate that Ana Maria was born 10 February 1864 and baptized 14 February 1864. Her sponsors were: Henry FUSS and Ana Maria MICHELS. She married Engelburtum SCHNEIDER of Minnesota, s/o Petri Schneider and Apolonia Schmitz (as spelled this time in the church records), in 1877--no specific month or date was recorded. Witnesses for this marriage included: Chrysanthi Len---(unreadable) and Elizabeth Holzem ----- Original Message ----- From: "Werner Lichter" <[email protected]> To: "Susan Nokes" <[email protected]>; "TRIER-ROOTS" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 8:29 AM Subject: Re: Treves--Trier and Michels-surname > Dear Susan and all the others, > what an interesting mail. > Let me send you the datas of this Michels family: > > (datas from the familybook of "Schankweiler, from Werner Naumann , page > 145) > > Barthel MICHELS > a teacher > born in unknown > death 05 Nov. 1856 in Holsthum > > married before 1833 in unknown to > > Margaretha Weber > born in unknown > died in USA unknown > > this family moved (for teaching) before February 1833 to Holsthum. There > the following children where born: > 1. 02.12.1833 Catharina > 2. 03.31.1838 Anna Clara > 3. 09.25.1840 Anton (to USA in 1857) > 4. 12.31.1843 Leonard > 5. 12.30.1848 Johann Philipp > The first emigrant from this family was Anton Michels. In his "permisson > to emigrate" her wrote: > "My mother is the widdow of the teacher Batholomaeus (called Barthel) > Michels who died at September 5th last year here in Holsthum. She has a > sister who´s married in the state of Wisconsin. She wants to have me > with her. For that she has sent a socalled Mr. Peter Schneider from > Bettendorf to me to bring me to her in USA. He is working since two > years at her (farm ?). Now I am ready (with the permission of my mother) > to emigrate on October 10th to Wisconsin. Date of prussian Certificate > of Permission September 7th 1857. > I am shure that the complete family emigrated after 1857 and I think > this happened before 1869. > It is possible to clear where Mr. Bathel Michels was born, because we > have the date of death. The civil records will tell where he was born > and who were his parents. > There was no Lenger living in that parish of Schankweiler (containing > the towns of Holsthum, Peffingen and Schankweiler). > Treves is the french name for Trier (government district of Trier or > city of Trier, both is correcht). > Holzem is the slang variation of three towns: > a. Holsthum (called Holzem) , Irrel county, district of Bitburg-Pruem, > state of Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany; > b. Holzem (called Holzem) , community of Mamer, Luxemburg; > c. Holzthum (called Holtzem), community of Consthum, Luxemburg. > Maybe there are other "Holzem`s" in lorrain (France) or Belgium > (province of Luxemburg), but I don´t know yet. > Emigrants with the name "Holzem" came from the county of Daun, district > of Trier, Germany in 1869 and 1873: > Christian Holzem, age 35, from Boxberg in 1873 > Elisabeth Holzem, age 2, from Boxberg in 1873, > Gertrud Holzem, age 27, from Boxberg in 1873, > Johann Peter Holzem, age 58, from Heyroth in 1869, > Magdalena Holzem, age 59, from Heyroth in 1869, > Magdalena Holzem, age 32, from Heyroth in 1869, > Peter Holzem, age 20, from Heyroth in 1869, > Peter Holzem, age 4, from Boxberg in 1869, > Vincenz Holzem, age 8, from Boxberg in 1873 > Boxberg is in the parish of Beinhausen, Heyroth in the rarish of > Niederehe. They are close together. The thelen and Michels names are > located in this area, too !!!!! Perhaps the Michels family Mrs. Nokes is > researching came from this area, too ? It is possible, because the > combination Michels-Thelen is typical for this region in the county of > Daun ! > > > yours sincerely > > Werner Lichter > > > > ##################################### > I thought I'd play out a "hunch" again... > I kept feeling like there was some connection to the LENGER's moving to > Jefferson County--aside from the fact that people would need to migrate > west to stake land claims... The obituary for George MICHELS said that > his body was "returned to his family in Jefferson for burial"....while > back in Wisconsin last year--I traveled many country roads all around > Jefferson County--stopping at numerous cemeteries...At St. Lawrence > Cemetery, which is located on Hwy 18 out of Jefferson and toward > Milwaukee...I found out that a Priest by the name of Rev. Anthony > (Anton) MICHAELS had pastored there.. So I wrote to the Archdiocease of > Milwaukee a few weeks back--and said that I had searched the graveyard > at St. Lawrence and had not located the grave for Father MICHAELS..and > wondered if they had any records about his ministry or where he might be > buried... > This is what they sent me: > Rev. Anthony (Anton) Francis MICHAELS Born September 25, 1840 at > Holsthum (Treves) Germany Studied at St. Francis Seminary Ordained > August 12, 1868 in Milwaukee by Bishop Melchers of Green Bay for the > diocease of Milwaukee Came to the diocease as a boy in 1857. As priest > in 1868. Came from Treves, Germany Incorporated into this diocease in > 1868. Stationed at present St. Joseph's Convent in Milwaukee Formerly: > St. Matthias, Beloit Rd.; St. Boniface, Germantown; Teachers Seminary, > St. Francis; St. Laurence near Jefferson; St. Martin's, Ashford; St. > Matthew's, New Castle; Winona, Minn. as chaplainto School Sisters of St. > Francis; St. Joseph's Convent as its spiritual director. He died as the > spiritual director of the School Sisters of St. Francis, Milwaukee. > Died: July 18, 1911. Buried in Calvary Cemetery, Milwaukee > ------------------ > There are two sources of information about him and one varies in > information regarding his ordination. The second record states that he > was ordained by Bishop J. M. Henni at St. Francis on August 12, 1868. > The record > above is the most complete with only the ordination information varying. > This ends what they sent to me... OK--I may be grasping at > straws--but--- > Notice the name of the town he was said to have born in: Holsthum... > How closely this resembles the name HOLZEM or HOLZHEM.... > Ann MICHELS, the daughter of George MICHELS and Anna Marie THELEN > married a Jacob HOLZEM on November 05, 1861 at St. Anthony's, > Fussville, Waukesha County, Wisconsin. Jacob's parents were : Christian > HOLZEM and Clementina (maiden name unknown). Ann MICHEL's sister was Eva > MICHELS who married Christian LENGER in a > dual marriage ceremony on November 05, 1861 at St. Anthony's, Fussville, > Waukesha County, Wisconsin. > I have information which says: "St. Martin's mission parish was founded > in July 1846. The congregation > consisting of 21 German families, was attended by the St. Anthony pastor > every week before and after it had its own resident pastors. St.Martin's > mission school was conducted by two Chriatian Brothers from > 1847-1849...." Could those two "Christian Brothers" have been Christian > Lenger (husband of Elizabeth Glesius) and Christian Holzem (father of > Jacob Holzem)??? I realize that monks or acolytes are also known as > "Brothers" in the Catholic church...but it seems strange that all of > these families were in that area at the same time. Coincidence???? > Could our families have been responsible for the building of that > church?? Could they have moved to Jefferson after the ordination of > Rev. Anton MICHAELS who then pastored at St. Laurence just outside of > Jefferson??? Just a few questions--hoping I might find the answers... > Fellow researcher, Susan >

Duane, I have Conrad & Endres families in Herforst. Someone e-mailed me the pages from the family book which are specific for my family groups with those surnames. I checked, and could not find your names. That does not mean that your families did not have a connection with mine. There was no documented connection in the generations included in the pages that I have. I suggest that you check church records for both Herforst & Speicher. Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Kyle Lamers Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 11:39 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Nicholas Hartmann of Herforst near Speicher Nicholas Hartmann died at Herforst in 1836 at the age of 55. Records at the standesamt at Speicher, I believe, note that he had come from Arlon, the capital of the Belgian province of Luxembourg and very near the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg. He married Catharina Steffen at Herforst in 1804 and fathered eight children, including my gg grandmother Catharina Hartmann Bangart. I have not been able to locate any parish records at Arlon containing references to Nicholas and I am seeking more information about his ancestry. Duane E. Lamers [email protected] --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/TRIER-ROOTS.html to unsubscribeGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

Nicholas Hartmann died at Herforst in 1836 at the age of 55. Records at the standesamt at Speicher, I believe, note that he had come from Arlon, the capital of the Belgian province of Luxembourg and very near the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg. He married Catharina Steffen at Herforst in 1804 and fathered eight children, including my gg grandmother Catharina Hartmann Bangart. I have not been able to locate any parish records at Arlon containing references to Nicholas and I am seeking more information about his ancestry. Duane E. Lamers [email protected] --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

Dear Susan and all the others, what an interesting mail. Let me send you the datas of this Michels family: (datas from the familybook of "Schankweiler, from Werner Naumann , page 145) Barthel MICHELS a teacher born in unknown death 05 Nov. 1856 in Holsthum married before 1833 in unknown to Margaretha Weber born in unknown died in USA unknown this family moved (for teaching) before February 1833 to Holsthum. There the following children where born: 1. 02.12.1833 Catharina 2. 03.31.1838 Anna Clara 3. 09.25.1840 Anton (to USA in 1857) 4. 12.31.1843 Leonard 5. 12.30.1848 Johann Philipp The first emigrant from this family was Anton Michels. In his "permisson to emigrate" her wrote: "My mother is the widdow of the teacher Batholomaeus (called Barthel) Michels who died at September 5th last year here in Holsthum. She has a sister who´s married in the state of Wisconsin. She wants to have me with her. For that she has sent a socalled Mr. Peter Schneider from Bettendorf to me to bring me to her in USA. He is working since two years at her (farm ?). Now I am ready (with the permission of my mother) to emigrate on October 10th to Wisconsin. Date of prussian Certificate of Permission September 7th 1857. I am shure that the complete family emigrated after 1857 and I think this happened before 1869. It is possible to clear where Mr. Bathel Michels was born, because we have the date of death. The civil records will tell where he was born and who were his parents. There was no Lenger living in that parish of Schankweiler (containing the towns of Holsthum, Peffingen and Schankweiler). Treves is the french name for Trier (government district of Trier or city of Trier, both is correcht). Holzem is the slang variation of three towns: a. Holsthum (called Holzem) , Irrel county, district of Bitburg-Pruem, state of Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany; b. Holzem (called Holzem) , community of Mamer, Luxemburg; c. Holzthum (called Holtzem), community of Consthum, Luxemburg. Maybe there are other "Holzem`s" in lorrain (France) or Belgium (province of Luxemburg), but I don´t know yet. Emigrants with the name "Holzem" came from the county of Daun, district of Trier, Germany in 1869 and 1873: Christian Holzem, age 35, from Boxberg in 1873 Elisabeth Holzem, age 2, from Boxberg in 1873, Gertrud Holzem, age 27, from Boxberg in 1873, Johann Peter Holzem, age 58, from Heyroth in 1869, Magdalena Holzem, age 59, from Heyroth in 1869, Magdalena Holzem, age 32, from Heyroth in 1869, Peter Holzem, age 20, from Heyroth in 1869, Peter Holzem, age 4, from Boxberg in 1869, Vincenz Holzem, age 8, from Boxberg in 1873 Boxberg is in the parish of Beinhausen, Heyroth in the rarish of Niederehe. They are close together. The thelen and Michels names are located in this area, too !!!!! Perhaps the Michels family Mrs. Nokes is researching came from this area, too ? It is possible, because the combination Michels-Thelen is typical for this region in the county of Daun ! yours sincerely Werner Lichter ##################################### I thought I'd play out a "hunch" again... I kept feeling like there was some connection to the LENGER's moving to Jefferson County--aside from the fact that people would need to migrate west to stake land claims... The obituary for George MICHELS said that his body was "returned to his family in Jefferson for burial"....while back in Wisconsin last year--I traveled many country roads all around Jefferson County--stopping at numerous cemeteries...At St. Lawrence Cemetery, which is located on Hwy 18 out of Jefferson and toward Milwaukee...I found out that a Priest by the name of Rev. Anthony (Anton) MICHAELS had pastored there.. So I wrote to the Archdiocease of Milwaukee a few weeks back--and said that I had searched the graveyard at St. Lawrence and had not located the grave for Father MICHAELS..and wondered if they had any records about his ministry or where he might be buried... This is what they sent me: Rev. Anthony (Anton) Francis MICHAELS Born September 25, 1840 at Holsthum (Treves) Germany Studied at St. Francis Seminary Ordained August 12, 1868 in Milwaukee by Bishop Melchers of Green Bay for the diocease of Milwaukee Came to the diocease as a boy in 1857. As priest in 1868. Came from Treves, Germany Incorporated into this diocease in 1868. Stationed at present St. Joseph's Convent in Milwaukee Formerly: St. Matthias, Beloit Rd.; St. Boniface, Germantown; Teachers Seminary, St. Francis; St. Laurence near Jefferson; St. Martin's, Ashford; St. Matthew's, New Castle; Winona, Minn. as chaplainto School Sisters of St. Francis; St. Joseph's Convent as its spiritual director. He died as the spiritual director of the School Sisters of St. Francis, Milwaukee. Died: July 18, 1911. Buried in Calvary Cemetery, Milwaukee ------------------ There are two sources of information about him and one varies in information regarding his ordination. The second record states that he was ordained by Bishop J. M. Henni at St. Francis on August 12, 1868. The record above is the most complete with only the ordination information varying. This ends what they sent to me... OK--I may be grasping at straws--but--- Notice the name of the town he was said to have born in: Holsthum... How closely this resembles the name HOLZEM or HOLZHEM.... Ann MICHELS, the daughter of George MICHELS and Anna Marie THELEN married a Jacob HOLZEM on November 05, 1861 at St. Anthony's, Fussville, Waukesha County, Wisconsin. Jacob's parents were : Christian HOLZEM and Clementina (maiden name unknown). Ann MICHEL's sister was Eva MICHELS who married Christian LENGER in a dual marriage ceremony on November 05, 1861 at St. Anthony's, Fussville, Waukesha County, Wisconsin. I have information which says: "St. Martin's mission parish was founded in July 1846. The congregation consisting of 21 German families, was attended by the St. Anthony pastor every week before and after it had its own resident pastors. St.Martin's mission school was conducted by two Chriatian Brothers from 1847-1849...." Could those two "Christian Brothers" have been Christian Lenger (husband of Elizabeth Glesius) and Christian Holzem (father of Jacob Holzem)??? I realize that monks or acolytes are also known as "Brothers" in the Catholic church...but it seems strange that all of these families were in that area at the same time. Coincidence???? Could our families have been responsible for the building of that church?? Could they have moved to Jefferson after the ordination of Rev. Anton MICHAELS who then pastored at St. Laurence just outside of Jefferson??? Just a few questions--hoping I might find the answers... Fellow researcher, Susan

Hello... ...Have you checked the United States Federal 1860 Census for Wisconsin, especially Washington County and Milwaukee County. I will keep your surname of Weber and Schneider in mind, as I so my research. Alice Werner Lichter wrote: > > Dear Susan and all the others, > what an interesting mail. > Let me send you the datas of this Michels family: > > (datas from the familybook of "Schankweiler, from Werner Naumann , page > 145) > > Barthel MICHELS > a teacher > born in unknown > death 05 Nov. 1856 in Holsthum > > married before 1833 in unknown to > > Margaretha Weber > born in unknown > died in USA unknown > > this family moved (for teaching) before February 1833 to Holsthum. There > the following children where born: > 1. 02.12.1833 Catharina > 2. 03.31.1838 Anna Clara > 3. 09.25.1840 Anton (to USA in 1857) > 4. 12.31.1843 Leonard > 5. 12.30.1848 Johann Philipp > The first emigrant from this family was Anton Michels. In his "permisson > to emigrate" her wrote: > "My mother is the widdow of the teacher Batholomaeus (called Barthel) > Michels who died at September 5th last year here in Holsthum. She has a > sister who´s married in the state of Wisconsin. She wants to have me > with her. For that she has sent a socalled Mr. Peter Schneider from > Bettendorf to me to bring me to her in USA. He is working since two > years at her (farm ?). Now I am ready (with the permission of my mother) > to emigrate on October 10th to Wisconsin. Date of prussian Certificate > of Permission September 7th 1857. > I am shure that the complete family emigrated after 1857 and I think > this happened before 1869. > It is possible to clear where Mr. Bathel Michels was born, because we > have the date of death. The civil records will tell where he was born > and who were his parents. > There was no Lenger living in that parish of Schankweiler (containing > the towns of Holsthum, Peffingen and Schankweiler). > Treves is the french name for Trier (government district of Trier or > city of Trier, both is correcht). > Holzem is the slang variation of three towns: > a. Holsthum (called Holzem) , Irrel county, district of Bitburg-Pruem, > state of Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany; > b. Holzem (called Holzem) , community of Mamer, Luxemburg; > c. Holzthum (called Holtzem), community of Consthum, Luxemburg. > Maybe there are other "Holzem`s" in lorrain (France) or Belgium > (province of Luxemburg), but I don´t know yet. > Emigrants with the name "Holzem" came from the county of Daun, district > of Trier, Germany in 1869 and 1873: > Christian Holzem, age 35, from Boxberg in 1873 > Elisabeth Holzem, age 2, from Boxberg in 1873, > Gertrud Holzem, age 27, from Boxberg in 1873, > Johann Peter Holzem, age 58, from Heyroth in 1869, > Magdalena Holzem, age 59, from Heyroth in 1869, > Magdalena Holzem, age 32, from Heyroth in 1869, > Peter Holzem, age 20, from Heyroth in 1869, > Peter Holzem, age 4, from Boxberg in 1869, > Vincenz Holzem, age 8, from Boxberg in 1873 > Boxberg is in the parish of Beinhausen, Heyroth in the rarish of > Niederehe. They are close together. The thelen and Michels names are > located in this area, too !!!!! Perhaps the Michels family Mrs. Nokes is > researching came from this area, too ? It is possible, because the > combination Michels-Thelen is typical for this region in the county of > Daun ! > > yours sincerely > > Werner Lichter > > ##################################### > I thought I'd play out a "hunch" again... > I kept feeling like there was some connection to the LENGER's moving to > Jefferson County--aside from the fact that people would need to migrate > west to stake land claims... The obituary for George MICHELS said that > his body was "returned to his family in Jefferson for burial"....while > back in Wisconsin last year--I traveled many country roads all around > Jefferson County--stopping at numerous cemeteries...At St. Lawrence > Cemetery, which is located on Hwy 18 out of Jefferson and toward > Milwaukee...I found out that a Priest by the name of Rev. Anthony > (Anton) MICHAELS had pastored there.. So I wrote to the Archdiocease of > Milwaukee a few weeks back--and said that I had searched the graveyard > at St. Lawrence and had not located the grave for Father MICHAELS..and > wondered if they had any records about his ministry or where he might be > buried... > This is what they sent me: > Rev. Anthony (Anton) Francis MICHAELS Born September 25, 1840 at > Holsthum (Treves) Germany Studied at St. Francis Seminary Ordained > August 12, 1868 in Milwaukee by Bishop Melchers of Green Bay for the > diocease of Milwaukee Came to the diocease as a boy in 1857. As priest > in 1868. Came from Treves, Germany Incorporated into this diocease in > 1868. Stationed at present St. Joseph's Convent in Milwaukee Formerly: > St. Matthias, Beloit Rd.; St. Boniface, Germantown; Teachers Seminary, > St. Francis; St. Laurence near Jefferson; St. Martin's, Ashford; St. > Matthew's, New Castle; Winona, Minn. as chaplainto School Sisters of St. > Francis; St. Joseph's Convent as its spiritual director. He died as the > spiritual director of the School Sisters of St. Francis, Milwaukee. > Died: July 18, 1911. Buried in Calvary Cemetery, Milwaukee > ------------------ > There are two sources of information about him and one varies in > information regarding his ordination. The second record states that he > was ordained by Bishop J. M. Henni at St. Francis on August 12, 1868. > The record > above is the most complete with only the ordination information varying. > This ends what they sent to me... OK--I may be grasping at > straws--but--- > Notice the name of the town he was said to have born in: Holsthum... > How closely this resembles the name HOLZEM or HOLZHEM.... > Ann MICHELS, the daughter of George MICHELS and Anna Marie THELEN > married a Jacob HOLZEM on November 05, 1861 at St. Anthony's, > Fussville, Waukesha County, Wisconsin. Jacob's parents were : Christian > HOLZEM and Clementina (maiden name unknown). Ann MICHEL's sister was Eva > MICHELS who married Christian LENGER in a > dual marriage ceremony on November 05, 1861 at St. Anthony's, Fussville, > Waukesha County, Wisconsin. > I have information which says: "St. Martin's mission parish was founded > in July 1846. The congregation > consisting of 21 German families, was attended by the St. Anthony pastor > every week before and after it had its own resident pastors. St.Martin's > mission school was conducted by two Chriatian Brothers from > 1847-1849...." Could those two "Christian Brothers" have been Christian > Lenger (husband of Elizabeth Glesius) and Christian Holzem (father of > Jacob Holzem)??? I realize that monks or acolytes are also known as > "Brothers" in the Catholic church...but it seems strange that all of > these families were in that area at the same time. Coincidence???? > Could our families have been responsible for the building of that > church?? Could they have moved to Jefferson after the ordination of > Rev. Anton MICHAELS who then pastored at St. Laurence just outside of > Jefferson??? Just a few questions--hoping I might find the answers... > Fellow researcher, Susan > > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/TRIER-ROOTS.html > to unsubscribe

Hi folks, Could someone please tell me about the Terres' family that lived in Luxembourg City in the 16th & 17th century? My friend, Werner, was in the City a while back, but, he just did not have the time to lookup the Terres'. Thanks, Ron Holmquist

I thought I'd play out a "hunch" again... I kept feeling like there was some connection to the LENGER's moving to Jefferson County--aside from the fact that people would need to migrate west to stake land claims... The obituary for George MICHELS said that his body was "returned to his family in Jefferson for burial"....while back in Wisconsin last year--I traveled many country roads all around Jefferson County--stopping at numerous cemeteries...At St. Lawrence Cemetery, which is located on Hwy 18 out of Jefferson and toward Milwaukee...I found out that a Priest by the name of Rev. Anthony (Anton) MICHAELS had pastored there.. So I wrote to the Archdiocease of Milwaukee a few weeks back--and said that I had searched the graveyard at St. Lawrence and had not located the grave for Father MICHAELS..and wondered if they had any records about his ministry or where he might be buried... This is what they sent me: Rev. Anthony (Anton) Francis MICHAELS Born September 25, 1840 at Holsthum (Treves) Germany Studied at St. Francis Seminary Ordained August 12, 1868 in Milwaukee by Bishop Melchers of Green Bay for the diocease of Milwaukee Came to the diocease as a boy in 1857. As priest in 1868. Came from Treves, Germany Incorporated into this diocease in 1868. Stationed at present St. Joseph's Convent in Milwaukee Formerly: St. Matthias, Beloit Rd.; St. Boniface, Germantown; Teachers Seminary, St. Francis; St. Laurence near Jefferson; St. Martin's, Ashford; St. Matthew's, New Castle; Winona, Minn. as chaplainto School Sisters of St. Francis; St. Joseph's Convent as its spiritual director. He died as the spiritual director of the School Sisters of St. Francis, Milwaukee. Died: July 18, 1911. Buried in Calvary Cemetery, Milwaukee ------------------ Treves would be Trier There are two sources of information about him and one varies in information regarding his ordination. The second record states that he was ordained by Bishop J. M. Henni at St. Francis on August 12, 1868. The record above is the most complete with only the ordination information varying. This ends what they sent to me... OK--I may be grasping at straws--but--- Notice the name of the town he was said to have born in: Holsthum... How closely this resembles the name HOLZEM or HOLZHEM.... Ann MICHELS, the daughter of George MICHELS and Anna Marie THELEN married a Jacob HOLZEM on November 05, 1861 at St. Anthony's, Fussville, Waukesha County, Wisconsin. Jacob's parents were : Christian HOLZEM and Clementina (maiden name unknown). Ann MICHEL's sister was Eva MICHELS who married Christian LENGER in a dual marriage ceremony on November 05, 1861 at St. Anthony's, Fussville, Waukesha County, Wisconsin. I have information which says: "St. Martin's mission parish was founded in July 1846. The congregation consisting of 21 German families, was attended by the St. Anthony pastor every week before and after it had its own resident pastors. St. Martin's mission school was conducted by two Chriatian Brothers from 1847-1849...." Could those two "Christian Brothers" have been Christian Lenger (husband of Elizabeth Glesius) and Christian Holzem (father of Jacob Holzem)??? I realize that monks or acolytes are also known as "Brothers" in the Catholic church...but it seems strange that all of these families were in that area at the same time. Coincidence???? Could our families have been responsible for the building of that church?? Could they have moved to Jefferson after the ordination of Rev. Anton MICHAELS who then pastored at St. Laurence just outside of Jefferson??? Just a few questions--hoping I might find the answers... Fellow researcher, Susan

Kathy, Don't be upset. I understand perfectly your problem and if I had to read something written in, say chinese, I would also use such a translator to get at least an idea of what the text is about. I know that it is expensive for normal people to hire a translator (being myself a professional translator I am well informed about the costs...:-) However you may also understand that for somebody like me, to see a text like this constitutes an irresistible call to better it... :-) The biggest problem with automated translators is that they cannot take the context into account. They are machines and cannot make the difference between the different meanings a same word can have. This is already not always easy for a translator, so one cannot expect a machine to have more "feeling" for a text than a human being... But way too often those automated translators give a text back that has little to do with the original. You just have to be well aware of this. Barbara ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "kathy metzen" <[email protected]> À : <[email protected]> Envoyé : mercredi 12 juin 2002 14:39 Objet : Re: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Re: TRIER-ROOTS-D Digest V02 #133 > Frank & Barbara, > I didn't say that it was perfect. I did say that I have had better results using it, instead of other translators. > I don't have the money to hire a translator, or the time to attempt it myself. I have communicated very successfully with several people on another list, who also don't have the time or money, either. We put the message through the translator, check for obvious errors, like the town name being translated, then use a dictionary to finish the translation. > I think that everyone should use the method that works best for them. I simply offered a different translator to Alice & whoever else wanted to try it. > Kathy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Frank Kuhn > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 10:54 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Re: TRIER-ROOTS-D Digest V02 #133 > > I must agree with Barbara concerning the so called translation > programs that are available on line. My experience has not been at > all good and I will pass along one little tid-bit that came from one > of those programs. > I recently wrote a letter in English and put it into one of the > programs to be translated to German. Beside the usual jibberish which > made little sense at all, I noticed one particular phrase which kept > occurring frequently---"Iron oh". After reading the letter several > times, I finally learned what was happening. The original English > letter made mention, in several instances to "Eisenach" the German > city. The translator broke Eisenach up into two words: > > Eisen---iron and ach---oh > > After that experience, I am now doing the translations myself. My > translations couldn't be any worse. > > Frank Kuhn > > > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/TRIER-ROOTS.html > to unsubscribeGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > > > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/TRIER-ROOTS.html > to unsubscribe >

I made the mistake of thinking.:} That since a German Email friend could read English he could also send E mail in English. Not so. He explained he could write some english but could not get through his exact meaning. He did send some mail in English and at that time I realized what he meant. So, the on line translators must have a similar problem with the umlats and so on. I run it through a couple different translators and then take a guess. Carl

I like to share with you an experience I had. My son in-law wrote me a letter in English and translated it by translator into German. He wrote among others: All is well over here in Charlotte, NC Translator's translation: Alles ist Brunnen (water well) ueber hier in Charlotte, NC. We had our fun with this letter. Heinz Boden, Leesburg, Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: "barbara schnubel" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Re: TRIER-ROOTS-D Digest V02 #133 Kathy, Don't be upset. I understand perfectly your problem and if I had to read something written in, say chinese, I would also use such a translator to get at least an idea of what the text is about. I know that it is expensive for normal people to hire a translator (being myself a professional translator I am well informed about the costs...:-) However you may also understand that for somebody like me, to see a text like this constitutes an irresistible call to better it... :-) The biggest problem with automated translators is that they cannot take the context into account. They are machines and cannot make the difference between the different meanings a same word can have. This is already not always easy for a translator, so one cannot expect a machine to have more "feeling" for a text than a human being... But way too often those automated translators give a text back that has little to do with the original. You just have to be well aware of this. Barbara ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "kathy metzen" <[email protected]> À : <[email protected]> Envoyé : mercredi 12 juin 2002 14:39 Objet : Re: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Re: TRIER-ROOTS-D Digest V02 #133 > Frank & Barbara, > I didn't say that it was perfect. I did say that I have had better results using it, instead of other translators. > I don't have the money to hire a translator, or the time to attempt it myself. I have communicated very successfully with several people on another list, who also don't have the time or money, either. We put the message through the translator, check for obvious errors, like the town name being translated, then use a dictionary to finish the translation. > I think that everyone should use the method that works best for them. I simply offered a different translator to Alice & whoever else wanted to try it. > Kathy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Frank Kuhn > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 10:54 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [TRIER-ROOTS-L] Re: TRIER-ROOTS-D Digest V02 #133 > > I must agree with Barbara concerning the so called translation > programs that are available on line. My experience has not been at > all good and I will pass along one little tid-bit that came from one > of those programs. > I recently wrote a letter in English and put it into one of the > programs to be translated to German. Beside the usual jibberish which > made little sense at all, I noticed one particular phrase which kept > occurring frequently---"Iron oh". After reading the letter several > times, I finally learned what was happening. The original English > letter made mention, in several instances to "Eisenach" the German > city. The translator broke Eisenach up into two words: > > Eisen---iron and ach---oh > > After that experience, I am now doing the translations myself. My > translations couldn't be any worse. > > Frank Kuhn > > > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/TRIER-ROOTS.html > to unsubscribeGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > > > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== > Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/TRIER-ROOTS.html > to unsubscribe > ==== TRIER-ROOTS Mailing List ==== Going on vacation longer than 4 days? Go to http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/DEU/TRIER-ROOTS.html to unsubscribe