Please help me understand the phrase “double impediment of the 4th to the 4th degree of consanguinity.” Do I understand that if my wife and I had a common 2nd great grandparent we would be 3rd cousins? Does a “double impediment” in the first instance indicate having two 2nd great grandparents in common? What does “of the 4th” mean? Does that mean four generations away from me? If my wife was “of the 3rd” would she be 3 generations way from our common ancestor? >From the quote below it sounds if my idea is too simple? Thanks, LeRoy The following is from a Catholic Encyclopedia accessed 18 December 2012 at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04264a.htm In calculating the degree of consanguinity special attention must be paid to three things, the line, the degree, and the stock or root. The stock, or root, is the common ancestor, or the person, male or female, from whom descend as from the nearest common bond the persons whose blood-relationship is to be determined. The degree is the distance of one person from the other in regard to blood-relationship. The line is the classified series of persons descending from the common stock through one or more generations. The line is direct when the series of persons descend one from the other, as father and son, grandfather and grandchild. The line is transverse, or collateral, when the blood-relations spring from a common stock, yet do not descend one from the other but form different branches side by side, as two brothers, two nephews. This collateral line is equal or unequal according as these persons derive equally or unequally from the same stock or root. The blood-relationship is computed according to the distance from the stock whence it is derived, and this is the rule by which the degrees or steps of consanguinity are determined. In the direct line the Roman civil and the canon law agree on the principle that there are as many degrees as generations; hence as many degrees as there are persons, omitting the stock or root. A son is one degree from his father, a grandchild two degrees from the grandfather. In the computation of the degrees of the transverse or collateral line there is a serious difference between the Roman civil and the canon law. The civil law founded its degrees upon the number of generations, the number of degrees being equal to the number of generations; thus between brothers there are two degrees as there are two generations; between first cousins four degrees, corresponding to the four generations. The degrees are calculated easily in the civil law by summing up the number of persons in each line, omitting the common ancestor. Except for marriage, the canon law follows regularly the computation of the civil law, e.g. in the question of inheritance. But the Canon law, in the collateral line of consanguinity, computes for marriage one series only of generations, and if the series are unequal, only the longer one. Hence the principle of canon law that in the transverse or collateral line there are as many degrees of consanguinity as there are persons in the longer series, omitting the common stock or root. If the two series are equal, the distance is the number of degrees of either from the common stock. Thus brother and sister are in the first degree, first cousins in the second degree; uncle and niece in the second degree because the niece is two degrees from the grandfather who is the common stock. Thus if Caius has two sons, Titius and Sempronius, and Sempronius has a son and grandchild, the relationship of the grandchild of Sempronius to Titius is in the third degree, because this grandchild is distant three degrees from the common stock, Caius. This rule holds if the common stock should only be one person; thus half-brothers and half-sisters, that is from either father or mother, are in the first degree. Children of the same father and mother are called german, as from the common germ; those of the same mother and not of the same father are called uterine, as from the same womb; and children of the same father and different mother are called blood-children. The legitimacy or illegitimacy of any member of the series does not modify the relationship as a bar to marriage.

Leroy, Here are two links to civil law on consanguinty, which may help with part of your question. <http://www.cousincouples.com/?page=relation> <http://www.mystatewill.com/degrees_of_kinship.php> I used to have a Canon law site bookmarked, but seem to have misplaced it. Kathy On 12/18/2012 7:12 PM, LeRoy Atkins wrote: > Please help me understand the phrase “double impediment of the 4th to the 4th degree of consanguinity.” > > Do I understand that if my wife and I had a common 2nd great grandparent we would be 3rd cousins? > > Does a “double impediment” in the first instance indicate having two 2nd great grandparents in common? > > What does “of the 4th” mean? > > Does that mean four generations away from me? > > If my wife was “of the 3rd” would she be 3 generations way from our common ancestor? > > From the quote below it sounds if my idea is too simple? > > Thanks, > LeRoy > > The following is from a Catholic Encyclopedia accessed 18 December 2012 at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04264a.htm > > In calculating the degree of consanguinity special attention must be paid to three things, the line, the degree, and the stock or root. The stock, or root, is the common ancestor, or the person, male or female, from whom descend as from the nearest common bond the persons whose blood-relationship is to be determined. The degree is the distance of one person from the other in regard to blood-relationship. The line is the classified series of persons descending from the common stock through one or more generations. The line is direct when the series of persons descend one from the other, as father and son, grandfather and grandchild. The line is transverse, or collateral, when the blood-relations spring from a common stock, yet do not descend one from the other but form different branches side by side, as two brothers, two nephews. This collateral line is equal or unequal according as these persons derive equally or unequally from the same stock or root. The blood-relationsh! ip is computed according to the distance from the stock whence it is derived, and this is the rule by which the degrees or steps of consanguinity are determined. > > In the direct line the Roman civil and the canon law agree on the principle that there are as many degrees as generations; hence as many degrees as there are persons, omitting the stock or root. A son is one degree from his father, a grandchild two degrees from the grandfather. In the computation of the degrees of the transverse or collateral line there is a serious difference between the Roman civil and the canon law. The civil law founded its degrees upon the number of generations, the number of degrees being equal to the number of generations; thus between brothers there are two degrees as there are two generations; between first cousins four degrees, corresponding to the four generations. The degrees are calculated easily in the civil law by summing up the number of persons in each line, omitting the common ancestor. Except for marriage, the canon law follows regularly the computation of the civil law, e.g. in the question of inheritance. But the Canon law, in the coll! ateral line of consanguinity, computes for marriage one series only of generations, and if the series are unequal, only the longer one. Hence the principle of canon law that in the transverse or collateral line there are as many degrees of consanguinity as there are persons in the longer series, omitting the common stock or root. If the two series are equal, the distance is the number of degrees of either from the common stock. Thus brother and sister are in the first degree, first cousins in the second degree; uncle and niece in the second degree because the niece is two degrees from the grandfather who is the common stock. Thus if Caius has two sons, Titius and Sempronius, and Sempronius has a son and grandchild, the relationship of the grandchild of Sempronius to Titius is in the third degree, because this grandchild is distant three degrees from the common stock, Caius. This rule holds if the common stock should only be one person; thus half-brothers and half-sisters, t! hat is from either father or mother, are in the first degree. ! Children of the same father and mother are called german, as from the common germ; those of the same mother and not of the same father are called uterine, as from the same womb; and children of the same father and different mother are called blood-children. The legitimacy or illegitimacy of any member of the series does not modify the relationship as a bar to marriage. > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Leroy, in your first phrase "double impediment of the 4th to the 4th degree of consanguinity," something appears to be stated wrong. Double impediment means that there was an impediment in two different ways. Either could be an impediment of consanguinity (blood kinship) or affinity (kinship by marriage). In your case, you're explicitly told that it's a blood kinship. The statement that you quote would describe a double-impediment if one or another word was changed. For example: - Double impediment of the 4th *AND* the 4th degree. (i.e., 4th degree kinship, 2 different ways) - Double impediment of the 4th to the *5TH* degree (i.e., a third-cousin-once-removed relationship, in two ways) - Double impediment of the *3RD* to the 4th degree (i.e., a second-cousin-once-removed relationship, in two ways) Or a couple of words might be missing: - Double impediment of [say] the 4th degree *AND* the *3RD* to 4th degree (i.e., 3d cousins in one line and 2nd to 3d in another) (Do you, incidentally, remember the Trichel-Grappe slave/fpc problem we worked through in Course 4 and the diagrams that charted out the "double impediment of consanguinity in the 3d-to-4th degrees"? Same situation.) Elizabeth --------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Shown Mills, CG, CGL, FASG www.HistoricPathways.com www.EvidenceExplained.com & for daily tips on records and records usage: www.Facebook.com/EvidenceExplained -----Original Message----- From: transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of LeRoy Atkins Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 6:12 PM To: transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com Subject: [TGF] Consanguinity and Canon Law: Relationship Between Marriage Partners Please help me understand the phrase “double impediment of the 4th to the 4th degree of consanguinity.” Do I understand that if my wife and I had a common 2nd great grandparent we would be 3rd cousins? Does a “double impediment” in the first instance indicate having two 2nd great grandparents in common? What does “of the 4th” mean? Does that mean four generations away from me? If my wife was “of the 3rd” would she be 3 generations way from our common ancestor? >From the quote below it sounds if my idea is too simple? Thanks, LeRoy The following is from a Catholic Encyclopedia accessed 18 December 2012 at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04264a.htm In calculating the degree of consanguinity special attention must be paid to three things, the line, the degree, and the stock or root. The stock, or root, is the common ancestor, or the person, male or female, from whom descend as from the nearest common bond the persons whose blood-relationship is to be determined. The degree is the distance of one person from the other in regard to blood-relationship. The line is the classified series of persons descending from the common stock through one or more generations. The line is direct when the series of persons descend one from the other, as father and son, grandfather and grandchild. The line is transverse, or collateral, when the blood-relations spring from a common stock, yet do not descend one from the other but form different branches side by side, as two brothers, two nephews. This collateral line is equal or unequal according as these persons derive equally or unequally from the same stock or root. The blood-relationship! is computed according to the distance from the stock whence it is derived, and this is the rule by which the degrees or steps of consanguinity are determined. In the direct line the Roman civil and the canon law agree on the principle that there are as many degrees as generations; hence as many degrees as there are persons, omitting the stock or root. A son is one degree from his father, a grandchild two degrees from the grandfather. In the computation of the degrees of the transverse or collateral line there is a serious difference between the Roman civil and the canon law. The civil law founded its degrees upon the number of generations, the number of degrees being equal to the number of generations; thus between brothers there are two degrees as there are two generations; between first cousins four degrees, corresponding to the four generations. The degrees are calculated easily in the civil law by summing up the number of persons in each line, omitting the common ancestor. Except for marriage, the canon law follows regularly the computation of the civil law, e.g. in the question of inheritance. But the Canon law, in the collat! eral line of consanguinity, computes for marriage one series only of generations, and if the series are unequal, only the longer one. Hence the principle of canon law that in the transverse or collateral line there are as many degrees of consanguinity as there are persons in the longer series, omitting the common stock or root. If the two series are equal, the distance is the number of degrees of either from the common stock. Thus brother and sister are in the first degree, first cousins in the second degree; uncle and niece in the second degree because the niece is two degrees from the grandfather who is the common stock. Thus if Caius has two sons, Titius and Sempronius, and Sempronius has a son and grandchild, the relationship of the grandchild of Sempronius to Titius is in the third degree, because this grandchild is distant three degrees from the common stock, Caius. This rule holds if the common stock should only be one person; thus half-brothers and half-sisters, tha! t is from either father or mother, are in the first degree. Ch! ildren o f the same father and mother are called german, as from the common germ; those of the same mother and not of the same father are called uterine, as from the same womb; and children of the same father and different mother are called blood-children. The legitimacy or illegitimacy of any member of the series does not modify the relationship as a bar to marriage. The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message