Margie wrote: > My question is: when does a phrase become copyrighted? A pinball approach I have heard attributed to other areas of life, a fan club is when a group of people follow someone for some reason. So by adding the word "principle" makes it copyrighted? or using the word fan as an acronym makes it copyrighted, or using quotes? Margie, You are obviously treading carefully. That is a good approach for every professional to take. When we are dealing with CONCEPTS, the issue is not copyright. The issue is plagiarism. As Philip put it, the issue is 'moral' rather than legal. (I don't know if you've seen it or not but, if you haven't, the subject of EE's current QuickLesson 15: Plagiarism and the Five 'Copywrongs' of Historical Writing" <www.EvidenceExplained.com> might help to clarify these issues for you.) Giving credit where due CAN get cumbersome. In a presentation in which you use, say, the pinball concept that you've read about in Dear Myrt's blog, you might introduce your discussion by saying something like, "Pat Richley-Erickson, who blogs as Dear Myrtle, has developed a wonderful concept that we can apply to this type of problem. . . ." Then you would proceed to *briefly* summarize her ideas and then *at length* develop your own. You would also want to place, on your handout, a full citation to the online column in which Pat detailed her concept. You also mentioned developing something of your own that's based on my "FAN Club Principle" in that same presentation. As you also noted, you conscientiously contacted me for permission. (Thank you. :) Taking these two in tandem, I also sense in your query some puzzlement over just how far one has to take this 'get permission' stuff. If we make a presentation and we have to tell the group, "Pat Richley-Ericson developed this concept ... ESM developed this concept, and the Board for Certification developed this other concept," then that could leave us, as a speaker, feeling uncomfortable about how often we are having to make an attribution. That, too, is a good thing. If we feel that we are having to make an awful lot of attributions in our presentation, then our inner-self is likely telling us that we need to use fewer ideas from other speakers and use more material of our own development. An occasional exception to the last point might be an overtly "derivative" presentation entitled: "The 5 Hottest Ideas in Genealogical Research: Pinballs, FAN Clubs, GPS, Whatever & Yada Yada!" In this case, you would logically present each hot idea, identify the person or agency who developed it, and then use your expertise to develop each point in your own way. Hope this helps. Elizabeth --------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Shown Mills, CG, CGL, FASG www.HistoricPathways.com www.EvidenceExplained.com & for daily tips on records and record usage: www.Facebook.com/EvidenceExplained