Thanks for the comments. The email had two parts - one the body of the email which was a discussion on what was known about the family in question - and then the attachments which were photocopies of the newspaper pages with the newspaper, date, and page # written in the margin. She had sent to the genealogical society in the area and they had copied the newspaper pages and sent them to her. I have decided that I maybe have two separate citations here. It is starting to make sense to separate the issues. Kathie On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 11:43 PM, Patricia Hobbs via < [email protected]> wrote: > Even though we don't have to put the details of how the original was > obtained, we so often do. We look at a census image on Ancestry, and we > tell what NARA microfilm series and roll the records are on, and then we > even tell what roll of FHL microfilm it was imaged from. > > I almost always tell something about the microfilm from which I scanned the > newspaper item. I don't usually go as far as giving a roll number because > often the roll numbers are specific to particular facilities, and are more > easily found just by title and date. But I do give that it came from > microfilm and where the microfilm came from, e.g., State Historical Society > of Iowa microfilmed newspaper collection, Iowa City. > > If I scanned that, I wouldn't HAVE to provide that information about the > microfilm, but generally most of us (I think!) assume it's a good practice > and helps other researchers. > > Patti > > On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 10:19 PM, Patricia Hobbs <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > I think it might depend on how you perceived the person who obtained the > > obituary. I agree that if you are having a "reliable" researcher or a > > person who works for the facility from which the item is obtained that we > > can treat it as something that is as reliable as the original. I did not > > see that scenario in this case. Not only do we know nothing about the > > reliability of the other researcher from whom Kathy obtained the > obituary, > > we don't know how she got it from the historical/genealogical society. > Did > > she access a filing card system that has them clipped out and arranged > > alphabetically? Was the title of the newspaper handwritten on the card? > Or > > did she use the newspapers on microfilm at the genealogical society? > > > > So I saw the obituary more akin to something that you would have gotten > in > > a family collection of items of which all the details of how the obituary > > was obtained is not known. > > > > Tom says that sometimes the second part of the citation is a courtesy ... > > like a newspaper on microfilm. You can just put the essential information > > at the beginning and leave off the specifics of the the microfilm. But > > again, I don't see this newspaper obituary obtained by an unknown > > researcher in an unknown manner under unknown circumstances to fit into > the > > same kind of category. > > > > And it certainly doesn't hurt to add the information giving the > provenance. > > > > Patti > > > > On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 9:15 PM, Jill Morelli <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> I agree with Michael. > >> > >> At the PMC 2015 class on citations taught by Tom Jones (a terrific class > >> by the way) the approach taken was exactly as Michael has outlined. > >> > >> You cite the source of the information (the newspaper clipping) and > since > >> it is publically available you have no obligation to cite the email. In > >> fact it would be confusing to do so. > >> > >> You may have to do a little work to get the column and page number, > >> however, depending on whether your email sender gave you a partial or > full > >> citation information. > >> > >> Jill > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Professional genealogist > >> Give the gift of family! > >> > >> > On Mar 5, 2015, at 2:44 PM, Michael Hait via < > >> [email protected]> wrote: > >> > > >> > That’s really not standard operating procedure, though. Agents are > >> almost never cited as a source in research reports or journal articles > when > >> dealing with published or public sources, if a digital image has been > >> obtained. > >> > > >> > Michael Hait, CG(sm) > >> > [email protected] > >> > http://www.haitfamilyresearch.com > >> > Author of *Online State Resources for Genealogy* ebook > >> > More information at http://haitfamilyresearch.com/onlineStates.htm > >> > > >> > CG and Certified Genealogist are service marks of the Board for > >> Certification of Genealogists, used under license by board certificants > >> after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is registered > in > >> the US Patent & Trademark Office. > >> > > >> > > >> > From: Patricia Hobbs > >> > Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2015 5:32 PM > >> > To: Michael Hait > >> > Cc: Kathie Fortner ; TGF List > >> > Subject: Re: [TGF] Citation > >> > > >> > I think you'd cite the email and the repository because you are > >> dependent on the person who sent the itme to be accurately identifying > it > >> (say the title or date of the newspaper is not in the copy, for > example), > >> but the person who sent it knows from obtaining it. Since you didn't > get it > >> yourself, you are letting the reader know that because the information > was > >> obtained from someone else, there may be errors that have crept in. > >> > > >> > Patti > >> > > >> > On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Michael Hait < > [email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > Why is the email relevant at all to the citation of the newspaper? If > >> the sender was functioning as an agent to obtain a publicly available > >> record from the society library's microfilm collection, for example, > then > >> you would cite the repository information, but not the agent who > obtained > >> it. > >> > > >> > Michael Hait, CG(sm) > >> > [email protected] > >> > http://www.haitfamilyresearch.com > >> > Author of *Online State Resources for Genealogy* ebook > >> > More information at http://haitfamilyresearch.com/onlineStates.htm > >> > > >> > CG and Certified Genealogist are service marks of the Board for > >> Certification of Genealogists, used under license by board certificants > >> after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is registered > in > >> the US Patent & Trademark Office. > >> > -----Original Message----- From: Patricia Hobbs via > >> > Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2015 12:58 PM > >> > To: Kathie Fortner > >> > Cc: TGF List > >> > Subject: Re: [TGF] Citation > >> > > >> > > >> > Kathie, I'm not sure how you contacted the person (via Ancestry > message > >> > board) is material if you corresponded directly through email to get > >> the > >> > document(s). > >> > > >> > I'd refer to the attachment directly as you normally would for that > >> kind of > >> > document (newspaper if it's an obituary with identifying > information). > >> Then > >> > after the semi-colon, you'd refer to the avenue of receipt as being > >> sent by > >> > email from the sender which would then cite the origin of the > obituary > >> as > >> > being the Elgin County Genealogical Society. > >> > > >> > Patti > >> > > >> > On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Kathie Fortner via < > >> > [email protected]> wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > I'm trying to cite an email with attachments. The attachments are > >> > identified by the sender. Am I on the right track with this? > >> > > >> > ​[Name of Sender], Via Ancestry Message Boards {senders email} To > >> Kathie > >> > Fortner, Email with attachments, 14 Aug 2014, "Hannah Bellowes > >> Fortner > >> > Obituary"; Attachments from "The St Thomas Evening Journal " 29 Aug > >> 1908, 1 > >> > Sep 1908, Elgin County Gealogical Society, -- > >> > > >> > * > >> > Kathie Fortner* > >> > * <[email protected]>* > >> > > >> > *www.fortner.50megs.com <http://www.fortner.50megs.com>* > >> > > >> > ------------------------------- > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> > [email protected] with the word > >> > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >> message > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------- > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word > >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------- > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word > >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- * Kathie Fortner* * <[email protected]>* *www.fortner.50megs.com <http://www.fortner.50megs.com>*