They were Methodists and the church where they were buried is still active but they have no records from that time period. I did check the index for the Southern Christian Advocate (a SC Methodist paper but they frequently included stories from GA). I haven't dug any further than that. I just can't imagine losing a child every couple of years. As soon as another one was born one died. Michele -----Original Message----- From: transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Susan Fassbender Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 11:49 AM To: TGF Mailing List Subject: Re: [TGF] Why kids died Michelle, Do you know if they were associated with a particular church? I have a family that had two children die within a few months of each other in 1886. The newspapers of that time did not include death information, and there were no vital records. But what I did find was that in the parish death records, the priest recorded the cause of death for each child. Susan C Fassbender Outagamie and Beyond Historical and Genealogical Research

Thank you for that book recommendation! Michele -----Original Message----- From: transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Rudolph Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 12:50 PM To: transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [TGF] Why kids died The wonder is that anyone survived childbirth. For a really gruesome review of THAT subject, see Brought to Bed: Childbearing in America,1750-1950 by Judith Walzer Leavitt. The number of things that frequently went wrong in the birth process that could affect a child's ability to thrive was, frankly, more than I could handle. Kay The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list.

The article, "The Search for Robert Jefferson Richardson's Parents" was published in Kentucky Ancestors volume 46, no. 1 autumn 2010 In a message dated 25-Sep-12 11:35:52 Mountain Daylight Time, librarytraveler@gmail.com writes: Ann -- Congratulations! Can you give us the citation so we can look it up? As for the bio, my tendency would be to mention other publications, as well as talks or whatever else you do genealogically. Keep it short, though, just enough to leave them wanting more! And check what others have done there in KA for their bios. Harold On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 12:19 PM, <_AGilchrest@aol.com_ (mailto:AGilchrest@aol.com) > wrote: I need some help with what to put in a short biographical description about myself. I was just notified that I was selected to receive the Anne Walker Fitzgerald Award for an article I wrote that was published in Kentucky Ancestors. Needless to say I am stunned. I didn't even know they gave awards for articles! They have asked that I write a short biographical description about myself including how I started researching and writing I have done. The article I won the award for was my first. Any advice would be appreciated. Ann The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to _TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com_ (mailto:TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com) with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Harold Henderson _midwestroots.net_ (http://midwestroots.net/) Research, Writing, and Brickwall Dismantling from Northwest Indiana Regularly Researching at the Allen County Public Library Genealogy Center Certified Genealogist (SM) No. 1029 Certified Genealogist and CG are proprietary service marks of the Board for Certification of Genealogists® used by the Board to identify its program of genealogical competencyevaluation and used under license by the Board’s associates.

I'll add my voice to the chorus whose answer can be summarized as "look at the community." You don't say where or exactly when this family was, although it probably doesn't matter a whole lot; I'll just note that a lot of my research has been 19th century central Europe. Things like measles came in waves and wiped out a good percentage of children in a town. The end of winter seems to been a vulnerable time, because food was scarce. Families really could lose a child or two in one year, then another a couple years later, and another further on, due to diseases, weakness, and occasionally accident; it's heartbreaking. Julie Michutka jmm@pathbridge.net On Sep 25, 2012, at 11:14 AM, Michele Lewis wrote: > I have a couple in the last 1800s that had several of their children die. > They lost one at 4 months, one at 5 months, one at 2 years, one at 1 year, > one at 1 year 5 months, and one at age 15. They also lost one at age 26 > [died with kidney failure after an appendectomy]. They had 2 that lived to > adulthood. There are 2 more that I can't trace. > > > > When you see a bunch of babies/children die in the same family (but not at > the same time like an illness wiping out several at once) what do you think? > Coincidental deaths? All died of the same thing? Something wrong with the > children genetically or hereditarily? I doubt that I will ever know since > there were no death certificate (except for the one that made it to age 26). > It just makes we wonder. This woman would lose a baby every couple of > years. I can't even imagine

I need some help with what to put in a short biographical description about myself. I was just notified that I was selected to receive the Anne Walker Fitzgerald Award for an article I wrote that was published in Kentucky Ancestors. Needless to say I am stunned. I didn't even know they gave awards for articles! They have asked that I write a short biographical description about myself including how I started researching and writing I have done. The article I won the award for was my first. Any advice would be appreciated. Ann

In addition to the contaminated-water diseases referred to by Harold, are and were no few derived from livestock, such as undulant fever, equine encephalitis and trichinosis; persistent insect-borne diseases such as yellow fever and malaria. Accidents were common rural life such as by firearms and entanglement in farming equipment or injury by horse or bull or cow; not to mention being run over by trains. There is just no generalization unless you should find some newspaper or local-history description of a particular flu, diphtheria, measles, cholera or other epidemic -- Harold's suggestion for a look in newspapers is quite sound. But even then you'd have to guess if you don't find announcement of a particular death and its cause. Good hunting, Judy Michele writes: When you see a bunch of babies/children die in the same family (but not at the same time like an illness wiping out several at once) what do you think? Coincidental deaths? All died of the same thing? Something wrong with the children genetically or hereditarily?

Some very interesting insights on this were developed in the U.K. WDYTYA episode involving Martin Freeman. On Youtube, the episode is divided into five pieces. The first piece is at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPHPcJQI36c One of his ancestral families had this die-off issue. He interviews a doctor at a children's hospital in London. Very interesting. Not what you'd think. No one so far has offered this explanation. Barbara

Michelle, Harold has offered some excellent thoughts. I have found newspapers to be excellent sources for death causes. In the cases of accidents they often include more gory details than you may want to know. There is another thing that I have noticed about earlier death certificates. That is how often people died and no autopsy was performed. Many of the causes of death would often automatically require an autopsy today. I was talking to a friend recently; her daughter is the Chief Medical Examiner in a county in New York. Her daughter said that we have to remember that medicine and medical knowledge was not as advanced as it is today. As a result often caused of death were not as accurate as they are today. One of the causes of this was that it was often a medical examiner that filled out the death certificate. Most often this was an elected position and required no medical training to be elected. In some cases the person may be a funeral director and have some formal training. They still did not have the knowledge of a trained physician. Chuck Mason -----Original Message----- From: transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Harold Henderson Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 11:36 AM To: Michele Lewis Cc: TGF Mailing List Subject: Re: [TGF] Why kids died Michele -- Two thoughts: (1) Don't omit newspapers as sources for deaths. They put the most amazing things in newspapers back then that you would get sued for today. (2) No general reason other than the primitive state of medicine (esp. no antibiotics) and often public-health issues such as sanitation and water supply. I would be very hesitant to draw any more drastic conclusions in any particular case without good evidence, which as you say is hard to come by. One of my grandmothers died as a young mother in 1920 of a simple ear infection that could not be treated and did not seem serious -- she wrote a typical letter two days before. The other grandmother lost her first-born in 1916: it was a month early and she thought it should have conditions as womb-like as possible, but the doctor told her different. No, I can't imagine. (Actually maybe I can: she lived to 94 and had no truck with stories about "the good old days.") Harold On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Michele Lewis <ancestoring@gmail.com>wrote: > I have a couple in the last 1800s that had several of their children die. > They lost one at 4 months, one at 5 months, one at 2 years, one at 1 year, > one at 1 year 5 months, and one at age 15. They also lost one at age 26 > [died with kidney failure after an appendectomy]. They had 2 that lived to > adulthood. There are 2 more that I can't trace. > > > > When you see a bunch of babies/children die in the same family (but not at > the same time like an illness wiping out several at once) what do you > think? > Coincidental deaths? All died of the same thing? Something wrong with the > children genetically or hereditarily? I doubt that I will ever know > since > there were no death certificate (except for the one that made it to age > 26). > It just makes we wonder. This woman would lose a baby every couple of > years. I can't even imagine. > > > > Michele > > > > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive > environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to > professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Harold Henderson midwestroots.net Research, Writing, and Brickwall Dismantling from Northwest Indiana Regularly Researching at the Allen County Public Library Genealogy Center Certified Genealogist (SM) No. 1029 Certified Genealogist and CG are proprietary service marks of the Board for Certification of GenealogistsR used by the Board to identify its program of genealogical competencyevaluation and used under license by the Board's associates. The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ann -- Congratulations! Can you give us the citation so we can look it up? As for the bio, my tendency would be to mention other publications, as well as talks or whatever else you do genealogically. Keep it short, though, just enough to leave them wanting more! And check what others have done there in KA for their bios. Harold On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 12:19 PM, <AGilchrest@aol.com> wrote: > I need some help with what to put in a short biographical description > about myself. I was just notified that I was selected to receive the Anne > Walker Fitzgerald Award for an article I wrote that was published in > Kentucky > Ancestors. > > Needless to say I am stunned. I didn't even know they gave awards for > articles! They have asked that I write a short biographical description > about > myself including how I started researching and writing I have done. The > article I won the award for was my first. > > Any advice would be appreciated. > > Ann > > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive > environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to > professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Harold Henderson midwestroots.net Research, Writing, and Brickwall Dismantling from Northwest Indiana Regularly Researching at the Allen County Public Library Genealogy Center Certified Genealogist (SM) No. 1029 Certified Genealogist and CG are proprietary service marks of the Board for Certification of Genealogists® used by the Board to identify its program of genealogical competencyevaluation and used under license by the Board’s associates.

On Sep 25, 2012, at 10:08 AM, Janis Walker Gilmore wrote: > They did die a lot, but sometimes one can't help wondering. > > My great aunt had 11 children. The first one lived to be nearly 100. The next three died as infants and a fourth died at age 2. Of the remaining 6 only the last one failed to live a long and vigorous life. Four in a row die and then five in a row are healthy as oxen? > > The family moved from Missouri to Oklahoma. Was it the water on their first farm? Privation and overwork didn't allow the mother to produce enough milk? I was working with a similar situation: eleven children of two married first cousins, children born in Belle Prairie and Hebron, Nebraska and Chicago, Illinois. First two sons survived to adulthood, then two daughters died before the age of three. A third daughter survived and then two sons died in Chicago, again before the age of three, then four more children were born in Chicago, all of whom survived to adulthood. I suspected the cousinship of the parents was an issue, but after stumbling upon two death records for the four early childhood deaths, it appears not. Nebraska recorded an 1885 state census, which included a page of deaths by township for that year only, plus cause of death and attending physician. Typhoid was the cause of death for one daughter. Chicago death certificates are slowly being transcribed for Chicago, and for one son who was born there in 1892 and died in 1893 the cause of death was "capillary pneumonia," acute bronchitis in today's terminology. Genetics seems less likely to me as a result of finding out the cause for two of the four deaths. Best regards, Debra MacLaughlan Dumes http://sakionline.net/familypage/

I have a couple in the last 1800s that had several of their children die. They lost one at 4 months, one at 5 months, one at 2 years, one at 1 year, one at 1 year 5 months, and one at age 15. They also lost one at age 26 [died with kidney failure after an appendectomy]. They had 2 that lived to adulthood. There are 2 more that I can't trace. When you see a bunch of babies/children die in the same family (but not at the same time like an illness wiping out several at once) what do you think? Coincidental deaths? All died of the same thing? Something wrong with the children genetically or hereditarily? I doubt that I will ever know since there were no death certificate (except for the one that made it to age 26). It just makes we wonder. This woman would lose a baby every couple of years. I can't even imagine. Michele

I've spent a lot of time browsing newspapers for long periods of time in one particular Iowa town. I felt I got to know some of the people and felt saddened by their losses. Even if they don't mention illnesses related to particular families, they will talk about illnesses going around. A family mentioned in a newspaper had lost something like 6 or 7 children to the same epidemic. A family Bible and tombstones reveal that three children in my great-grandfather's family died in the 1870s within about three weeks of each other. My great-grandfather was born around 1881. The only other sibling that was alive that made it through the epidemic was the one who had immigrated from Sweden with his parents. My grand aunt remembered that she had been told that they had died from diptheria. Patti On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Harold Henderson < librarytraveler@gmail.com> wrote: > Michele -- > > Two thoughts: > > (1) Don't omit newspapers as sources for deaths. They put the most amazing > things in newspapers back then that you would get sued for today. > > (2) No general reason other than the primitive state of medicine (esp. no > antibiotics) and often public-health issues such as sanitation and water > supply. I would be very hesitant to draw any more drastic conclusions in > any particular case without good evidence, which as you say is hard to come > by. One of my grandmothers died as a young mother in 1920 of a simple ear > infection that could not be treated and did not seem serious -- she wrote a > typical letter two days before. The other grandmother lost her first-born > in 1916: it was a month early and she thought it should have conditions as > womb-like as possible, but the doctor told her different. No, I can't > imagine. (Actually maybe I can: she lived to 94 and had no truck with > stories about "the good old days.") > > Harold > > On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Michele Lewis <ancestoring@gmail.com > >wrote: > > > I have a couple in the last 1800s that had several of their children die. > > They lost one at 4 months, one at 5 months, one at 2 years, one at 1 > year, > > one at 1 year 5 months, and one at age 15. They also lost one at age 26 > > [died with kidney failure after an appendectomy]. They had 2 that lived > to > > adulthood. There are 2 more that I can't trace. > > > > > > > > When you see a bunch of babies/children die in the same family (but not > at > > the same time like an illness wiping out several at once) what do you > > think? > > Coincidental deaths? All died of the same thing? Something wrong with > the > > children genetically or hereditarily? I doubt that I will ever know > > since > > there were no death certificate (except for the one that made it to age > > 26). > > It just makes we wonder. This woman would lose a baby every couple of > > years. I can't even imagine. > > > > > > > > Michele > > > > > > > > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive > > environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition > to > > professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > > > -- > Harold Henderson midwestroots.net > Research, Writing, and Brickwall Dismantling from Northwest Indiana > Regularly Researching at the Allen County Public Library Genealogy Center > > Certified Genealogist (SM) No. 1029 > Certified Genealogist and CG are proprietary service marks > of the Board for Certification of Genealogists® used by the > Board to identify its program of genealogical competencyevaluation > and used under license by the Board’s associates. > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive > environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to > professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Michelle, Do you know if they were associated with a particular church? I have a family that had two children die within a few months of each other in 1886. The newspapers of that time did not include death information, and there were no vital records. But what I did find was that in the parish death records, the priest recorded the cause of death for each child. Susan C Fassbender Outagamie and Beyond Historical and Genealogical Research On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Michele Lewis <ancestoring@gmail.com>wrote: > I have a couple in the last 1800s that had several of their children die. > They lost one at 4 months, one at 5 months, one at 2 years, one at 1 year, > one at 1 year 5 months, and one at age 15. They also lost one at age 26 > [died with kidney failure after an appendectomy]. They had 2 that lived to > adulthood. There are 2 more that I can't trace. > > > > When you see a bunch of babies/children die in the same family (but not at > the same time like an illness wiping out several at once) what do you > think? > Coincidental deaths? All died of the same thing? Something wrong with the > children genetically or hereditarily? I doubt that I will ever know > since > there were no death certificate (except for the one that made it to age > 26). > It just makes we wonder. This woman would lose a baby every couple of > years. I can't even imagine. > > > > Michele > > > > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive > environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to > professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Although several have mentioned the idea, I don't believe anyone has stated specifically that the definition of the word "professional" depends upon whether the word is used as a noun or an adjective.  According to my 1966 edition of Webster's, as a noun it requires money to change hands. As an adjective, it may not. Online dictionaries may be fuzzier on that distinction, but the first definitions of the noun always involve payment. I do not claim to be a professional genealogist. I do, however, strive to do professional quality work. As for how others might perceive it, my experience (based upon volunteering on a regular basis at a moderately-sized genealogical library) is that many people don't know "professional genealogists" exist. I don't remember anyone asking me to recommend a "professional genealogist," or ask how they might find one. What they ask is how to solve a problem and then comment "I'd be willing to pay someone to help me." While I always find these discussions fascinating, how to define the word "professional," or whether those who charge money for research should be licensed, distract from the real issues. I believe the more important issues include such questions as: *How do we educate the public as to what to expect when they hire someone? How often do unskilled or underskilled "professionals" lead clients to believe a problem has been solved when it has not, or that they've checked all records and the problem can't be solved? I've seen reports, for example, that do not include recommendations for further research and left the impression all resources were exhausted, when what was checked were census records, cemetery transcriptions, marriage records, the county history, and obituaries. How should the profession respond when such errors are made? *How do we educate all genealogists? I've seen great strides in this area over the last few years, but there is much to be done. Recently, a person came to the library seeking assistance understanding his DNA results. After a lengthy discussion, it became apparent that he was under the impression that because there had been a court house fire, he'd exhausted all records. I don't recall whether he'd actually hired someone, or had been relying on what he was told by librarians and court house staff. With a little research, I learned the fire had occurred less than 10 years after the county was created. He was amazed to learn that the answers to his problem might be hiding in newspapers, tax lists, the county of origin, more recent records, his ancestor's FAN club, etc. He thought DNA was his only hope. His was a complicated problem, but sometimes, I wonder whether the basics are being lost. A recent request for help that I received on Ancestry's messaging system is an example; I doubt the current crop of cyber-beginning genealogists even know what a query is. I've now asked twice "Please tell me when and where your John Doe lived; there were multiple men named John Doe. I'm happy to try to help you, but without knowing a little more..." *How do we create a market for independent professional genealogists in the age of Ancestry? Notice I said how do we create a market, not how do we market ourselves. If the public knew that "professional genealogists" exist to the extent they know plumbers, handymen, and yoga instructors exist, the only issue would be the latter. It seems to me the profession usually acts as though the issue is marketing oneself, not marketing the profession. Connie Sheets Phoenix, AZ

I've been reading the debate with interest, and may finally have something to say (which all may take cum grano salis). I do not work full time in the field, as I have other irons in the fire, such as being a graduate student. And while I'm in my studies, I have suspended what little work I did, which was mainly writing and lecturing. Does speaking a few times a year make me a professional? I don't do it every month, but it recognizes that I know something. Does having written _Non-Federal Censuses of Florida, 1784-1945: A Guide to Sources_ make me a professional? I think that's part of it. Is being a member of a professional society necessary? I think it's nice, and I lean toward necessary, though I don't have the money for the membership dues right now! Is adhering to a code of ethics necessary? Absolutely. That is an individual decision, but I think it is a must. I think another facet of being a professional is peer recognition. Genealogical societies around Florida have asked me to speak to their groups more than once. They recognize that I have something to say and the background to be able to say it. Professional genealogists in the area include me in. Organizers of genealogical conferences in the area have invited me to be one of their presenters. So I think that's part of it, too. But maybe because I am part-time, I'm only semi-pro. I am on my way to becoming a professional historian. In that practice of history, in my training for it, I have applied genealogical as well as historical methods. I use genealogical methods heavily in my study of St. Augustine, Florida, between 1784 and 1821, because one of the approaches I have to studying the history of that place at that time is to parse out the family relationships. Interesting question, and interesting discussion. Karen Packard Rhodes currently residing in Pinellas Park, Pinellas County, Florida On 9/24/2012 11:18 PM, Michael Hait wrote: > I think Dee Dee's suggestion was that we poll those outside of genealogy. > > Her position seems to be that _outside of genealogy_ the term "professional" > has a very specific meaning that is understood. This meaning does not align > with how we use it _inside genealogy_. > > Personally, I am split. I have a relatively inclusive definition of the term > "professional genealogist," but I generally feel that this requires doing > some form of work--paid or unpaid--for someone other than one's own family. > This work is not necessarily restricted to those who conduct research but > also may include authors, lecturers and educators, publishers, etc. The key > point, I think, is that a professional has to do something for someone else. >

On 9/25/2012 8:44 AM, Jillaine Smith wrote: > What benefits would accrue to the field of genealogy and those it serves = > from an academic-degree-based licensing system? And what are the = > risks/costs of not doing so?=20 Benefits: Proper, recognized training; more assurance that a vetted and reviewed body of knowledge had been imparted; contact with and peer review by other similarly-qualified people; more serious, peer-reviewed development of the body of knowledge (which we already have, in part, with the top journals in the field); more public confidence in our field and its practitioners; recognition of genealogy as an academic discipline in its own right, and the respect that comes with that (which is where I want the field to be, anyway). Risks: Continued practice by charlatans (which are going to be there anyway if licensing is instituted, but perhaps in reduced numbers); continued confusion on the part of the public (who is professional? what does that mean? -- just the questions we're asking here; and if we are not clear on it, how can the public be clear?); little recourse for the public who may be subjected to the practice of a charlatan; continued "second-class" treatment of the field ("hobbyists"). > What will it take to have an objective procedure for reviewing and and = > holding accountable perpetrators of professional abuses? > > Legal sanction. Legislation. And, I know some don't want to hear it: government (generally at the state level, with departments or bureaus of professional regulation) regulation. Karen Packard Rhodes currently residing in Pinellas Park, Pinellas County, Florida

Michele -- Two thoughts: (1) Don't omit newspapers as sources for deaths. They put the most amazing things in newspapers back then that you would get sued for today. (2) No general reason other than the primitive state of medicine (esp. no antibiotics) and often public-health issues such as sanitation and water supply. I would be very hesitant to draw any more drastic conclusions in any particular case without good evidence, which as you say is hard to come by. One of my grandmothers died as a young mother in 1920 of a simple ear infection that could not be treated and did not seem serious -- she wrote a typical letter two days before. The other grandmother lost her first-born in 1916: it was a month early and she thought it should have conditions as womb-like as possible, but the doctor told her different. No, I can't imagine. (Actually maybe I can: she lived to 94 and had no truck with stories about "the good old days.") Harold On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Michele Lewis <ancestoring@gmail.com>wrote: > I have a couple in the last 1800s that had several of their children die. > They lost one at 4 months, one at 5 months, one at 2 years, one at 1 year, > one at 1 year 5 months, and one at age 15. They also lost one at age 26 > [died with kidney failure after an appendectomy]. They had 2 that lived to > adulthood. There are 2 more that I can't trace. > > > > When you see a bunch of babies/children die in the same family (but not at > the same time like an illness wiping out several at once) what do you > think? > Coincidental deaths? All died of the same thing? Something wrong with the > children genetically or hereditarily? I doubt that I will ever know > since > there were no death certificate (except for the one that made it to age > 26). > It just makes we wonder. This woman would lose a baby every couple of > years. I can't even imagine. > > > > Michele > > > > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive > environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to > professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Harold Henderson midwestroots.net Research, Writing, and Brickwall Dismantling from Northwest Indiana Regularly Researching at the Allen County Public Library Genealogy Center Certified Genealogist (SM) No. 1029 Certified Genealogist and CG are proprietary service marks of the Board for Certification of Genealogists® used by the Board to identify its program of genealogical competencyevaluation and used under license by the Board’s associates.

I am considered a "professional librarian." I am considered such not because I like to read, not because of my experience, not because I get paid, etc., but because I followed a prescribed educational path and earned a particular degree. Then, in order to practice my profession in a public arena, I was required by my state to apply for a certain certificate, which also hinged on my educational attainments. This system has seemed to work fairly well for librarianship, and since I come from this mindset, I don't have an issue with certain educational goals, degrees, or certificates being required for one to be considered a "professional genealogist" (or, professional family historian.) As a matter of fact, I like the idea, and think it is needed. Those who practice librarianship as a career, but are not considered "professionals" - even though they may have vast experience and knowledge, and may perform better than professionals (the fairness of that, and elitism, is another debate) - are known as paraprofessionals. So instead of "hobbyist," how about "paraprofessional genealogist?" (Which is along the same vein as "paralegal," etc.) Traci Thompson Local History/Genealogy Librarian Braswell Memorial Library 727 N Grace St Rocky Mount, NC 27804 252-442-1951 ext 247(voice) Opinions expressed are my own. * Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

I'll repeat my original point (which I actually might have made on the other list), wording it a little differently: do we really think we are that important in the grand scheme of things? Let's face it, if we do a bad job nobody is going to die or be injured, nobody will be out his life savings (unless he paid that for our work), and so on. Other regulated fields are that way because of the potential for great harm, either physical or financial, for failure to perform. In all but a relative handful of cases that is not the case in genealogy, and any harm we cause will be covered adequately by contract law. Should we all act professionally at all times? Of course, but I could say the same about ANY individual involved in ANY line of work. That doesn't necessarily mean they need to get a recognized degree to do that work. I have no trouble with it if the general public looks at us as people getting paid to do something many others do as a hobby; that's one of the four principal definitions of "professional." Do you look down at someone who calls himself a professional auto mechanic just because he hasn't gone to a school that gives him the privilege of putting a certain set of letters after his name? Do you frown on a professional computer programmer who hasn't bothered to get a certification (and conversely, for those in the field, are you impressed by a set of letters obtained solely through education with no practical experience required, like MCSE)? I would hazard a guess that (a) 99% of the public couldn't care less about us, and (b) anyone who does and has half a brain realizes that there are bad apples in every line of work and don't tar the entire field if they deal with one clunker. In the cases of many of the clunkers, the customer probably did not do due diligence in selecting the professional. Certification is certainly a positive marketing point, as is belonging to a professional society (like APG) with an enforced code of ethics. But should this be mandatory? Of course not. Sorry to burst some ego bubbles, but as I said earlier, we are not that important in the grand scheme of things. Dave Liesse Skingco Services, LLC

They did die a lot, but sometimes one can't help wondering. My great aunt had 11 children. The first one lived to be nearly 100. The next three died as infants and a fourth died at age 2. Of the remaining 6 only the last one failed to live a long and vigorous life. Four in a row die and then five in a row are healthy as oxen? The family moved from Missouri to Oklahoma. Was it the water on their first farm? Privation and overwork didn't allow the mother to produce enough milk? Janis Walker Gilmore Pawleys Island, SC On Sep 25, 2012, at 9:00 AM, pgarratt@gessert.us wrote: > > > Babies died a lot back then. And sometimes it was due to an epidemic or other condition in a particular area. I had an elderly ancestor die of heat stroke in Cincinnati at age 78 in the later part of the 1800's. I pulled up newspapers for the day that he died and discovered it was the worst heat wave in Cincinnati ever and that so many people died of heat stroke that day that the morges were overflowing and they were putting bodies in other locations. > > Phyllis > > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message