Hi all! I would like to invite everyone to join the "Thanksgiving Challenge." The idea of the challenge is to encourage all genealogists no matter where they are at in their walk in life to get back to their own research- even if it's just for one week, once a year. I am also encouraging everyone to talk about how the challenge goes whether it be at society/association meetings, on their blogs or just posting comments on other people's blogs. I initially introduced this challenge on my blog ( http://cedartree.blog.com/2012/11/01/the-thanksgiving-challenge/) a week ago and have added another post ( http://cedartree.blog.com/2012/11/02/how-to-have-a-family-history-themed-thanksgiving/) with some ideas on how to get your family interested in genealogy this holiday season. I'll be posting more along those lines throughout the month. If you decide to take up the challenge let me know how it goes and happy hunting! Kassie Nelson Cedar Tree Genealogy www.cedartreegenealogy.com http://cedartree.blog.com 402.850.3461 On Twitter! @CedarTreeGen

Michele, Are you sure all of the records have been digitized for that county and put online? I know that sometimes they are put up as they become available and it is not a complete set. Patty McIntyre Linked2Ancestors On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 11:16 AM, Michele Lewis <ancestoring@gmail.com>wrote: > An LDS member submitted a Patron Ordinance Submission sheet in 1986 with > the > marriage of Calvin Lewis to Emily Miles, 11 Nov 1847 in Wilkes County, GA. > Her source for the information is "Marriage Records of Wilks [sic] CO, GA" > I have a copy of the sheet from microfilm. > > Digital images from microfilm of the Wilkes County marriage books are > online > at Georgia's Virtual Vault. Calvin is not listed in the index. I hand > searched through the pages covering 1847 with many pages before and after > just in case but I can't find it. > > On the Patron Ordinance Submission sheet, there are 3 marriages listed. > The > first one is in a different marriage book and I found it with no problem. > The other two would be in the same marriage book and I could find neither. > > What is interesting is Calvin was from Columbia County as was Emily. It is > a bit odd for them to have gone to Wilkes to get married but not impossible > since Wilkes is the next county north. I checked the Columbia County > marriage books (digital images of microfilm) and that was negative too. > > I tried to track down the submitter but I had no luck there. If she is > still living, she doesn't live at the address listed on the sheet. > > So now I have an exact date for a marriage but no good source to go with > it. > > > Michele > > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive > environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to > professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I did something similar to help someone pay for a funeral for their daughter. I said I would donate X amount to the family for funeral expenses. I had a couple responses.  I think it is a good idea to help families discover their families and help someone else at the same time. Tina SansoneTN Genealogical Society, Vice Presidenthttp://www.tngsblog.orgGenealogy@Bellaonline.com --- On Wed, 11/7/12, Michele Lewis <ancestoring@gmail.com> wrote: From: Michele Lewis <ancestoring@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [TGF] Ethical Question To: "'Alicia Watt'" <adwagain@hotmail.com>, "'tgf'" <transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com> Date: Wednesday, November 7, 2012, 1:03 PM I think that is very generous of you and I can't imagine anyone thinking that you were using the storm to your advantage. Michele -----Original Message----- From: transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Alicia Watt Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 2:01 PM To: tgf Subject: [TGF] Ethical Question With the holidays approaching and the disaster in the northeast AND my personal desire to get my first paying client, I'm considering offering a holiday promotion along the lines of: Give a gift of family history and aid the Red Cross.  You pay $XX/hour of research (X hours minimum) and I will donate 1/2 the proceeds to the Red Cross. I thought this might draw in some business among my friends and family, get me started as well as helping the Red Cross.  I wonder, however, if there is an ethical problem here where I could be accused of using the disaster to bolster my business.  Personally, I don't see it as much different from donating a gift certificate to a silent auction.  Any thoughts on this? I suppose that would be another way to go - auction of a certificate rather than taking any portion of the money for myself... I would appreciate any advice here!  I can't be the only one who has thought of this, right? Thanks,Alicia Watt                           The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Good morning! I have been reading this line with interest. It points to some questions that I have been working through my brain. They are related to Debbie's comments: <<When/if you specialize in a certain area (state, region, etc.), you will become familiar with those records. >> 1st question: I would like to start my CG but I am stumped by the very first step on the preliminary application. What do you do if you do not have a certain area that you have specialized in? I live near Salt Lake City and work at the SLFHL often. I know how to use the library well and the records that are there. But I do not "specialize" in Utah or the surrounding states because my family lines are not there. They are more in Wisconsin, Illinois, New York, and Hungary. I do understand the importance of living close to the area or region so that you can visit archives and do footwork when necessary. I checked the archives for the TGF and did not find an answer to this. 2nd question: I have an interest in land records. I have used them some and am intrigued about the information that can be available when researching them. Are there any good land classes out there? I am registered for SLIG this coming January and will be in Josh Taylor's class, "Bridging the 1780-1830 Gap: New England to the Midwest" and am planning on attending the NGS conference this spring. Are there other options available to gain some in-depth training pertaining to land records? With that said, could I use land records, once I feel I am knowledgeable enough, as a specialty (instead of a region) for my portfolio? Thank you so much. I appreciate the knowledge base that is out there to help. Patty McIntyre Linked2Ancestors On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Debbie Hooper <debbiehooper@verizon.net>wrote: > Connie, > > Harold and Jay have made very good points. I just wanted to add the > following. > > When/if you specialize in a certain area (state, region, etc.), you will > become familiar with those records. It will become easier for you to > determine how much time a project will take and if a project is feasible. > Just one of the perks of experience. > > Hindsight is 20/20, but I think the next time a client approaches you with > such vague goals/objectives in such a short period of time, your first > response to them will probably be to educate them as to what is possible. > > Rest assured that you are better off without taking on this project. It > sounds like they contacted several people at the same time. Some clients > are not as concerned about the quality of research as others. > > Chalk it up to a lesson learned. Good luck in your future endeavors! > > Debbie Hooper > Delmarva Genealogy Associates > Specializing in Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > Rvsailor@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 10:12 AM > To: transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com > Subject: [TGF] Before the Contract > > Good Morning, All! > > I am in the process of working toward certification. I have been > researching for family and friends for nearly 30 years, always pro bono. > I > recently completed the Boston University research course in preparation to > expand my research services. > > Monday, I was contacted via Internet about a potential research project. > In the initial contact I was asked about my rates and whether I could > accomplish the research (a very vague goal of a Christmas gift to her > father of his potential heritage from Ireland or Scotland) before > Christmas. I responded with some general information on rates and > indicated the information I would need to determine an estimate of costs > and my ability to meet the Christmas deadline. The potential client > provided "what she knows" Tuesday morning which was basic information to > her father's grandparents all born in Northern Georgia and I am located > Florida. I spent some time on the Internet to identify the scope of what > was readily available and identify whether the Ireland or Scotland > connection appeared on census or other on-line records. My next step was > to send another email explaining that we would need to discuss her > specific > goals so I could provide her a proposed quote and contract. I explained > my > policy of obtaining a 4 hour research retainer with the contract. Her > next > email thanked me for my time and explained that her mother had already > found another genealogist for the research. I was disappointed but feel > the > process was an additional learning experience. > > My question. How much time should I have spent on this initial research > and as professional genealogists, how are these hours recouped > financially? > > As the saying goes, "Time is money." One thing I noted in the BU course > was that I took more time than the instructors indicated when factoring in > time spent for writing reports and pre contract research. I realize the > more times specific actions are accomplished, the quicker results will be > obtained. > > Thanks! Connie Bradshaw > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive > environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to > professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5379 - Release Date: 11/07/12 > > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive > environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to > professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

With the holidays approaching and the disaster in the northeast AND my personal desire to get my first paying client, I'm considering offering a holiday promotion along the lines of: Give a gift of family history and aid the Red Cross. You pay $XX/hour of research (X hours minimum) and I will donate 1/2 the proceeds to the Red Cross. I thought this might draw in some business among my friends and family, get me started as well as helping the Red Cross. I wonder, however, if there is an ethical problem here where I could be accused of using the disaster to bolster my business. Personally, I don't see it as much different from donating a gift certificate to a silent auction. Any thoughts on this? I suppose that would be another way to go - auction of a certificate rather than taking any portion of the money for myself... I would appreciate any advice here! I can't be the only one who has thought of this, right? Thanks,Alicia Watt

Does anyone here do professional work in the family/estate archiving/organizing arena? My grandfather, 94, is dying of bone cancer and probably only has a few weeks left to live and my grandmother has dementia and will likely not live much longer than him. In their storage, they have over a dozen boxes of original family papers (letters, records, scrapbooks, diaries, military papers, official vital documents, you name it they have it) and photos (both in albums and just loose) - but *all* of it is in utter chaos and totally disorganized. It actually hurts me to open the boxes and look in them because of both the lack of order and the lack of decent care for these items - some of them date back to the early 1800s. (Why haven't these been sorted through and archived earlier? My grandmother is fiercely, fiercely protective of them and does not like anyone looking at them for fear of us taking them away from her or ruining them or losing them, etc. Her failing mental capacities have meant that for the past decade she's just been grasping at what she still has.) Now, though, suddenly everyone is in a panic about these photos and documents and what we will do with them and how we will identify them if my grandparents die. So they've enlisted me to help. This isn't the usual work that I do - normally I do research - but I would like to approach this in a way I would approach a paying client. I would like to give my family a proposal and a project plan. (They will be paying me for this.) My question is, how have others approached this kind of project? On what kind of timeline? With what kind of billing procedures? My plan right now, loosely, is to purchase a few dozen archival quality document and photo boxes and a few hundred polypropylene archival quality clear sheet protectors and start organizing everything, paper by paper, into family group. But how do I do this without getting totally bogged down? Do I start with the broad sorting triage and then go back to do citations and descriptions of individual documents? Do I create an index along the way? Difficulties I imagine encountering: unidentifiable documents and photos; documents that cross different family groups; sheer volume of material being too much to archive in individual sheet protectors; and I'm sure other difficulties I'm not yet imagining. Any words of wisdom in terms of project planning? Also could use some insight into billing for this - by the hour? How long should I imagine this might take? Should I bill in stages? (I.e., "Phase I" will bill this much, further phases billed separately?) Help! Thank you :) Eva

Good Morning, All! I am in the process of working toward certification. I have been researching for family and friends for nearly 30 years, always pro bono. I recently completed the Boston University research course in preparation to expand my research services. Monday, I was contacted via Internet about a potential research project. In the initial contact I was asked about my rates and whether I could accomplish the research (a very vague goal of a Christmas gift to her father of his potential heritage from Ireland or Scotland) before Christmas. I responded with some general information on rates and indicated the information I would need to determine an estimate of costs and my ability to meet the Christmas deadline. The potential client provided "what she knows" Tuesday morning which was basic information to her father's grandparents all born in Northern Georgia and I am located Florida. I spent some time on the Internet to identify the scope of what was readily available and identify whether the Ireland or Scotland connection appeared on census or other on-line records. My next step was to send another email explaining that we would need to discuss her specific goals so I could provide her a proposed quote and contract. I explained my policy of obtaining a 4 hour research retainer with the contract. Her next email thanked me for my time and explained that her mother had already found another genealogist for the research. I was disappointed but feel the process was an additional learning experience. My question. How much time should I have spent on this initial research and as professional genealogists, how are these hours recouped financially? As the saying goes, "Time is money." One thing I noted in the BU course was that I took more time than the instructors indicated when factoring in time spent for writing reports and pre contract research. I realize the more times specific actions are accomplished, the quicker results will be obtained. Thanks! Connie Bradshaw

Connie -- Congratulations on completing BU! Short answer: Sounds to me like you did the right thing. Longer answers: The vaguer the research request, the more non-billable time one has to spend, not just getting the facts the client may know, but in making clear to them that (1) it's several months late to be thinking about a substantial genealogy Christmas gift, and that (2) you cannot as a professional guarantee to find the requisite ancestors in the time allotted. Depending on the record situation, you may be able to make an educated guess -- I'm sure Georgia in 1870 is more workable than in 1820! -- but there are no guarantees. Some families are clear sailing and in others you may work for months just to add one parent. Even given a clear research question, it does take time to survey the ground and know what records are available. That's our learning time and I do not think of it as billable. So this experience could also be an argument for specializing in an area where you already know what's available (within reason). From my point of view -- I love online research but sooner or later I need to go to the courthouse -- it also means specializing in locations (and/or repositories) that I can physically get to. Your mileage may vary! Harold On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Harold Henderson <librarytraveler@gmail.com>wrote: > Connie -- > > Congratulations on completing BU! > > Short answer: Sounds to me like you did the right thing. > > Longer answers: The vaguer the research request, the more non-billable > time one has to spend, not just getting the facts the client may know, but > in making clear to them that (1) it's several months late to be thinking > about a substantial genealogy Christmas gift, and that (2) you cannot as a > professional guarantee to find the requisite ancestors in the time > allotted. Depending on the record situation, you may be able to make an > educated guess -- I'm sure Georgia in 1870 is more workable than in 1820! > -- but there are no guarantees. Some families are clear sailing and in > others you may work for months just to add one parent. > > Even given a clear research question, it does take time to survey the > ground and know what records are available. That's our learning time and I > do not think of it as billable. So this experience could also be an > argument for specializing in an area where you already know what's > available (within reason). From my point of view -- I love online research > but sooner or later I need to go to the courthouse -- it also means > specializing in locations (and/or repositories) that I can physically get > to. Your mileage may vary! > > Harold > > > > On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 9:11 AM, <Rvsailor@aol.com> wrote: > >> Good Morning, All! >> >> I am in the process of working toward certification. I have been >> researching for family and friends for nearly 30 years, always pro bono. >> I >> recently completed the Boston University research course in preparation >> to expand >> my research services. >> >> Monday, I was contacted via Internet about a potential research project. >> In the initial contact I was asked about my rates and whether I could >> accomplish the research (a very vague goal of a Christmas gift to her >> father of >> his potential heritage from Ireland or Scotland) before Christmas. I >> responded with some general information on rates and indicated the >> information I >> would need to determine an estimate of costs and my ability to meet the >> Christmas deadline. The potential client provided "what she knows" >> Tuesday >> morning which was basic information to her father's grandparents all >> born in >> Northern Georgia and I am located Florida. I spent some time on the >> Internet to identify the scope of what was readily available and identify >> whether the Ireland or Scotland connection appeared on census or other >> on-line >> records. My next step was to send another email explaining that we would >> need to discuss her specific goals so I could provide her a proposed >> quote and >> contract. I explained my policy of obtaining a 4 hour research retainer >> with the contract. Her next email thanked me for my time and explained >> that >> her mother had already found another genealogist for the research. I was >> disappointed but feel the process was an additional learning experience. >> >> My question. How much time should I have spent on this initial research >> and as professional genealogists, how are these hours recouped >> financially? >> As the saying goes, "Time is money." One thing I noted in the BU course >> was that I took more time than the instructors indicated when factoring >> in >> time spent for writing reports and pre contract research. I realize the >> more times specific actions are accomplished, the quicker results will be >> obtained. >> >> Thanks! Connie Bradshaw >> The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive >> environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to >> professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > -- > Harold Henderson midwestroots.net > Research, Writing, and Brickwall Dismantling from Northwest Indiana > Regularly Researching at the Allen County Public Library Genealogy Center > > Certified Genealogist (SM) No. 1029 > Certified Genealogist and CG are proprietary service marks > of the Board for Certification of Genealogists® used by the > Board to identify its program of genealogical competencyevaluation > and used under license by the Board’s associates. > > > > -- Harold Henderson midwestroots.net Research, Writing, and Brickwall Dismantling from Northwest Indiana Regularly Researching at the Allen County Public Library Genealogy Center Certified Genealogist (SM) No. 1029 Certified Genealogist and CG are proprietary service marks of the Board for Certification of Genealogists® used by the Board to identify its program of genealogical competencyevaluation and used under license by the Board’s associates.

Consistency is something I can do, and since it doesn't really seem to matter which style I use, I'll continue to name the document in the beginning. Melanie does note an interesting aside: "I think it's more important to translate any words of a foreign language that are not obvious to the English speaker then put the elements of a citation in a particular order." I actually translate the entire citation into English, not just some of the words. Almost all of our archives have an English language site, and while their catalogs and indexes are not always in English, you can get pretty far. And the only place where I use my English citations are when I give references for my sources on pieces I've written in English. In my database, I use a Dutch citation (US style) as the main one, and put the English translation in my notes. I feel many citations can be confusing enough on their own - no need to add to that by mixing languages. And many Dutch people speak English, so if you were to speak to an archivist and show them the english citation, they'd probably have no problems finding the document. Also, I tried translating my English citation to Dutch over at Google translate and got a perfectly sound Dutch citation. So thank you all for the input. I've figured out that I don't actually need to change the way I'm working, which is a relief. Cheers, Joyce > From: caroleriley@optusnet.com.au > To: j.mulder@hotmail.com; transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [TGF] US vs. European Citation Style > Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:26:12 +1100 > > Joyce, your problem is similar to mine. I have tried to follow Elizabeth > Shown Mills' 'Evidence Explained' for many years, but the order of the > elements of a citation are the opposite of those recommended by the major > archives and genealogy societies in Australia. I think the most important > principle is to be consistent, rather than to follow a standard from another > country, so I use the Australian style, even when citing American resources. > > > Carole Riley > > -----Original Message----- > From: transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > J. Mulder > Sent: Tuesday, 6 November 2012 6:10 AM > To: transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com > Subject: [TGF] US vs. European Citation Style > > > > > I've been > paying particular attention to my citations lately, trying to bring them all > up to the correct level: making sure that the format is right and all > pertinent information is in there. I get most of my information about > genealogical methodology from US sources, but I live in the Netherlands and > my sources are typical Dutch sources. Also, many archives here in the > Netherlands offer citation instructions for their collections - which, by > the way, I often find lacking, leading to incomplete citations if followed > to the letter. But it has gotten me to notice a difference that seems to be > fundamental between US citation style and European (or at least Dutch) > citation style: the order of the different elements. > > > > For > instance, I have a deed of sale from a notarial archive of a village. This > archive is a collection found in the Regional Archive Leiden. I cited it in > my last blog post (and in my database) in the US style (and hope I got it > right): > > > > Deed of > Sale from Johannes Pieter Schmal for Hendrik Wesselo as father of his minor > son Lodewijk Wesselo, 5 August 1898 (filed 6 August 1898). Deeds 1898, > inventory number 4, number access 739B, Notarial archives Voorschoten, > Regional Archive Leiden, Leiden, Zuid-Holland. > > > > However, if > I were to do it as the archive suggests/instructs, in European style, the > citation would look like this: > > > > Regional > Archive Leiden, Leiden, Zuid-Holland, Notarial archives Voorschoten, number > access 739B, inventory number 4, deeds 1898. Deed of Sale from Johannes > Pieter Schmal for Hendrik Wesselo as father of his minor son Lodewijk > Wesselo, 5 August 1898 (filed 6 August 1898). > > > > At least, > the order would look something like that. I will admit that I find that > style (going from large to small) far more complicated than the US style of > citing, beginning with the specific record and ending with the archive. > > > > Anyway, my > question is, does it matter which style I use? Should I use the European > style because I live in the Netherlands and my research pertains to my Dutch > ancestors? Or should I use the European style because it's an European > archive/record, and use US style for US based records/archives? Or can I use > US style as long as I do it consistently? > > > > For the > record, this is just my personal research, the only publications of this are > on my blog. So no clients or editors that have a say in this or opinion > about this. > > > > Thanks in advance for any help on this issue. > > > > Joyce > > > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive > environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to > professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The important thing is that all elements of a citation be included, all that are needed for another researcher to follow your work. I prefer to name the document in the beginning but that's my preference. Others do it differently and that's just fine. I think it's more important to translate any words of a foreign language that are not obvious to the English speaker then put the elements of a citation in a particular order. I pulled out a few examples below from various projects. Death Record of Marie Francoise Rostini; Otta, Administrative District of Ajaccio, Corsica, France; Archives Departementales de Ajaccio; Rue Francois Pietri, 2000 Ajaccio (South Corse); date: 26 May 1880, Registres de l’etat civil d’Ota (Corse), Naissances, publications de marriage, mariages, décès [Births, marriage banns, marriages, deaths], 1880; no record number visible. Baptismal Record of Vincentiu Thomas Sabbastiu [Vincenzo Tomas Sebastiano] Santaniello; Parish of Sant’Andrea Apostolo, Quindici, Italy; Diocesi [Diocese] di Nola, Archivio Storico Diocesano [Diocesan Archives], Via San Felice, 30, 80035 Nola, Napoli Province, archiviostorico@chiesadinola.it; date: 18 September 1769, no record number. Marriage Promise of Michele Santaniello and Rosolina Manzi; Archivio di Stato di Avellino [Provincial Archives of Avellino], Via G. Verdi, 15/17, 83100 Avellino, Italy; Registri dello Stato Civile, “Atti di Solenne Promessa di Celebrare il Matrimonio [Marriage Promise]: 1847” ; date: 18 December 1847 in Quindici, Italy; record number 22. Sincerely, Melanie D. Holtz, CG Holtz Research Services 7283-102 NC Hwy 42 W, #402 Raleigh, NC 27603 Melanie@holtzresearch.com www.holtzresearch.com > From: caroleriley@optusnet.com.au > To: j.mulder@hotmail.com; transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com > Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:26:12 +1100 > Subject: Re: [TGF] US vs. European Citation Style > > Joyce, your problem is similar to mine. I have tried to follow Elizabeth > Shown Mills' 'Evidence Explained' for many years, but the order of the > elements of a citation are the opposite of those recommended by the major > archives and genealogy societies in Australia. I think the most important > principle is to be consistent, rather than to follow a standard from another > country, so I use the Australian style, even when citing American resources. > > > Carole Riley > > -----Original Message----- > From: transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > J. Mulder > Sent: Tuesday, 6 November 2012 6:10 AM > To: transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com > Subject: [TGF] US vs. European Citation Style > > > > > I've been > paying particular attention to my citations lately, trying to bring them all > up to the correct level: making sure that the format is right and all > pertinent information is in there. I get most of my information about > genealogical methodology from US sources, but I live in the Netherlands and > my sources are typical Dutch sources. Also, many archives here in the > Netherlands offer citation instructions for their collections - which, by > the way, I often find lacking, leading to incomplete citations if followed > to the letter. But it has gotten me to notice a difference that seems to be > fundamental between US citation style and European (or at least Dutch) > citation style: the order of the different elements. > > > > For > instance, I have a deed of sale from a notarial archive of a village. This > archive is a collection found in the Regional Archive Leiden. I cited it in > my last blog post (and in my database) in the US style (and hope I got it > right): > > > > Deed of > Sale from Johannes Pieter Schmal for Hendrik Wesselo as father of his minor > son Lodewijk Wesselo, 5 August 1898 (filed 6 August 1898). Deeds 1898, > inventory number 4, number access 739B, Notarial archives Voorschoten, > Regional Archive Leiden, Leiden, Zuid-Holland. > > > > However, if > I were to do it as the archive suggests/instructs, in European style, the > citation would look like this: > > > > Regional > Archive Leiden, Leiden, Zuid-Holland, Notarial archives Voorschoten, number > access 739B, inventory number 4, deeds 1898. Deed of Sale from Johannes > Pieter Schmal for Hendrik Wesselo as father of his minor son Lodewijk > Wesselo, 5 August 1898 (filed 6 August 1898). > > > > At least, > the order would look something like that. I will admit that I find that > style (going from large to small) far more complicated than the US style of > citing, beginning with the specific record and ending with the archive. > > > > Anyway, my > question is, does it matter which style I use? Should I use the European > style because I live in the Netherlands and my research pertains to my Dutch > ancestors? Or should I use the European style because it's an European > archive/record, and use US style for US based records/archives? Or can I use > US style as long as I do it consistently? > > > > For the > record, this is just my personal research, the only publications of this are > on my blog. So no clients or editors that have a say in this or opinion > about this. > > > > Thanks in advance for any help on this issue. > > > > Joyce > > > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive > environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to > professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am reading this part of the conversation with interest. I have quite a few German sources and I keep the title in German (and any locations that might be in the title) but I put the type of record in English. I really don't know why I do it this way other than so that the English speakers will at least know what kind of record it is. Michele -----Original Message----- From: transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of J. Mulder Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 10:18 AM To: caroleriley@optusnet.com.au; transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [TGF] US vs. European Citation Style Consistency is something I can do, and since it doesn't really seem to matter which style I use, I'll continue to name the document in the beginning. Melanie does note an interesting aside: "I think it's more important to translate any words of a foreign language that are not obvious to the English speaker then put the elements of a citation in a particular order." I actually translate the entire citation into English, not just some of the words. Almost all of our archives have an English language site, and while their catalogs and indexes are not always in English, you can get pretty far. And the only place where I use my English citations are when I give references for my sources on pieces I've written in English. In my database, I use a Dutch citation (US style) as the main one, and put the English translation in my notes. I feel many citations can be confusing enough on their own - no need to add to that by mixing languages. And many Dutch people speak English, so if you were to speak to an archivist and show them the english citation, they'd probably have no problems finding the document. Also, I tried translating my English citation to Dutch over at Google translate and got a perfectly sound Dutch citation. So thank you all for the input. I've figured out that I don't actually need to change the way I'm working, which is a relief. Cheers, Joyce

Joyce, your problem is similar to mine. I have tried to follow Elizabeth Shown Mills' 'Evidence Explained' for many years, but the order of the elements of a citation are the opposite of those recommended by the major archives and genealogy societies in Australia. I think the most important principle is to be consistent, rather than to follow a standard from another country, so I use the Australian style, even when citing American resources. Carole Riley -----Original Message----- From: transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of J. Mulder Sent: Tuesday, 6 November 2012 6:10 AM To: transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com Subject: [TGF] US vs. European Citation Style I've been paying particular attention to my citations lately, trying to bring them all up to the correct level: making sure that the format is right and all pertinent information is in there. I get most of my information about genealogical methodology from US sources, but I live in the Netherlands and my sources are typical Dutch sources. Also, many archives here in the Netherlands offer citation instructions for their collections - which, by the way, I often find lacking, leading to incomplete citations if followed to the letter. But it has gotten me to notice a difference that seems to be fundamental between US citation style and European (or at least Dutch) citation style: the order of the different elements. For instance, I have a deed of sale from a notarial archive of a village. This archive is a collection found in the Regional Archive Leiden. I cited it in my last blog post (and in my database) in the US style (and hope I got it right): Deed of Sale from Johannes Pieter Schmal for Hendrik Wesselo as father of his minor son Lodewijk Wesselo, 5 August 1898 (filed 6 August 1898). Deeds 1898, inventory number 4, number access 739B, Notarial archives Voorschoten, Regional Archive Leiden, Leiden, Zuid-Holland. However, if I were to do it as the archive suggests/instructs, in European style, the citation would look like this: Regional Archive Leiden, Leiden, Zuid-Holland, Notarial archives Voorschoten, number access 739B, inventory number 4, deeds 1898. Deed of Sale from Johannes Pieter Schmal for Hendrik Wesselo as father of his minor son Lodewijk Wesselo, 5 August 1898 (filed 6 August 1898). At least, the order would look something like that. I will admit that I find that style (going from large to small) far more complicated than the US style of citing, beginning with the specific record and ending with the archive. Anyway, my question is, does it matter which style I use? Should I use the European style because I live in the Netherlands and my research pertains to my Dutch ancestors? Or should I use the European style because it's an European archive/record, and use US style for US based records/archives? Or can I use US style as long as I do it consistently? For the record, this is just my personal research, the only publications of this are on my blog. So no clients or editors that have a say in this or opinion about this. Thanks in advance for any help on this issue. Joyce The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Janeth, I am not familiar with NY but you may find some help and information on the Bastard Nation website at _http://www.bastards.org/_ (http://www.bastards.org/) They are an adoptee rights organization. Ann In a message dated 05-Nov-12 16:23:08 US Mountain Standard Time, mrsmurphy1@aol.com writes: Has anyone had any experience in getting a New York adoption record unsealed? The time period in question is over 70 years ago. As I understand it, it takes a court order to gain any access. Short of the court order route, I am aware of the state's adoption registry in New York, but was wondering if there were any other avenues to explore, since one might only get very limited information via the registry. I was wondering if there was anyone here who had done this kind of research and who can share any insights. Thanks in advance! Janeth L. Murphy

I’ve been paying particular attention to my citations lately, trying to bring them all up to the correct level: making sure that the format is right and all pertinent information is in there. I get most of my information about genealogical methodology from US sources, but I live in the Netherlands and my sources are typical Dutch sources. Also, many archives here in the Netherlands offer citation instructions for their collections – which, by the way, I often find lacking, leading to incomplete citations if followed to the letter. But it has gotten me to notice a difference that seems to be fundamental between US citation style and European (or at least Dutch) citation style: the order of the different elements. For instance, I have a deed of sale from a notarial archive of a village. This archive is a collection found in the Regional Archive Leiden. I cited it in my last blog post (and in my database) in the US style (and hope I got it right): Deed of Sale from Johannes Pieter Schmal for Hendrik Wesselo as father of his minor son Lodewijk Wesselo, 5 August 1898 (filed 6 August 1898). Deeds 1898, inventory number 4, number access 739B, Notarial archives Voorschoten, Regional Archive Leiden, Leiden, Zuid-Holland. However, if I were to do it as the archive suggests/instructs, in European style, the citation would look like this: Regional Archive Leiden, Leiden, Zuid-Holland, Notarial archives Voorschoten, number access 739B, inventory number 4, deeds 1898. Deed of Sale from Johannes Pieter Schmal for Hendrik Wesselo as father of his minor son Lodewijk Wesselo, 5 August 1898 (filed 6 August 1898). At least, the order would look something like that. I will admit that I find that style (going from large to small) far more complicated than the US style of citing, beginning with the specific record and ending with the archive. Anyway, my question is, does it matter which style I use? Should I use the European style because I live in the Netherlands and my research pertains to my Dutch ancestors? Or should I use the European style because it’s an European archive/record, and use US style for US based records/archives? Or can I use US style as long as I do it consistently? For the record, this is just my personal research, the only publications of this are on my blog. So no clients or editors that have a say in this or opinion about this. Thanks in advance for any help on this issue. Joyce

The late “Suddie” Bill Mumford’s _Genealogical Software Report Card_ is available by way of the _Internet Archive: Wayback Machine_ <http://archive.org/web/web.php>. Enter into the box on the _Wayback Machine_: <http://www.mumford.ca/reportcard/> without the angle brackets. He divided the _Report Card_ into 12 main categories, with a list of features under each category. Though somewhat dated, it covers more features and more software packages than all or most current comparisons. He also wrote reviews of software for the National Genealogical Society magazine. Someone needs to update his _Genealogical Software Report Card_, adding new categories of information and new software packages. Then users could pick the features which are most important to them and buy software that suits their needs. If users don’t think about what their needs are, they are apt to stumble around from package to package, wasting time and money. Is there a US or Canadian copyright issue? “Suddie” Bill Mumford died in 2010. His obituary is on _Eastman’s Online Genealogy Newsletter_ <http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2010/11/suddie-bill-mumford-rip.html>. --Ida Skarson McCormick, idamc@seanet.com A long-time user of The Master Genealogist (TMG)

Has anyone had any experience in getting a New York adoption record unsealed? The time period in question is over 70 years ago. As I understand it, it takes a court order to gain any access. Short of the court order route, I am aware of the state's adoption registry in New York, but was wondering if there were any other avenues to explore, since one might only get very limited information via the registry. I was wondering if there was anyone here who had done this kind of research and who can share any insights. Thanks in advance! Janeth L. Murphy

Randy Seaver has done this also in his blog. Genea-Musings. He did a good job comparing the three softwares see one of the three http://www.geneamusings.com/2012/09/creating-source-list-report-in.html -----Original Message----- From: transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Beth Benko Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 8:50 AM To: TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM@rootsweb.com Subject: [TGF] Genealogy Software FYI: I am in the midst of a series of blog posts comparing Family Tree Maker, Roots Magic and Legacy Family Tree. The most recent posts cover the feature of copying census related data among family members. RM: http://www.bnk.com/groupwgenealogy/2012/10/30/genealogy-software-comparison- part-4a-more-on-census-records-rm / FTM: http://www.bnk.com/groupwgenealogy/2012/11/01/genealogy-software-comparison- part-4b-more-on-census-records-ftm/ LFT: coming soon Beth Benko Group W Genealogy > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 14:22:25 -0400 > From: "Eileen Souza" <eileen.souza@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [TGF] Genealogy Software > To: <dunna@roadrunner.com>, "'Transitional Genealogists'" > <TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <01a901cdb9f0$2cfadca0$86f095e0$@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Amy, I recently did a blog post as to why I use FTM. You might find > it useful. You can access it at > > http://www.oldbonesgenealogy.com/why-i-use-ftm-as-my-primary-genealogy > -progr > am/. > > Eileen > _______________________________ > Eileen A Souza > Eldersburg, MD > Old Bones Genealogy LLC > info@oldbonesgenealogy.com > www.oldbonesgenealogy.com > > > > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

<<<Established research firm provides free lookups at the Family History Library in Salt Lake City of books, magazines, fiche, or film. Simple 2-step process: 1. Locate the desired collection in the FamilySearch Catalog: familysearch.org/#form=catalog OR familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlc/ 2. Send the request at www.facebook.com/RootsonomyGenealogy or by email to rootsonomy@gmail.com. Mention Transitional Genealogists Forum to get the lookup for free. Record(s) will be sent via email usually within 48 hours. The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list.>>> * * *Hello all,* * * *I have resisted comment on this repeated message because I do look ups for clients, along with other research, at the Salt Lake Family History Library. I believe the purpose of the Transitional Genealogists List is to help those of who are trying to become better genealogists and NOT for advertising our wares. This is posted at the bottom of every e-mail:* * * *“The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list.”* * * *Many of us have our own talents and skills that we use to either partially or wholly to provide for us and our families. Please respect the purpose of this list. It is a great service to many of us. I so appreciate the comments and help from many professionals who give of their time freely. * * * *Patty McIntyre* *Linked2Ancestors* On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 12:15 AM, James Heddell <jivah0000@yahoo.com> wrote: > Established research > firm provides free lookups at the Family History Library in Salt Lake City > of > books, magazines, fiche, or film. Simple 2-step process: > > 1. Locate the desired collection in the FamilySearch Catalog: > familysearch.org/#form=catalog OR > familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlc/ > > 2. Send the request at www.facebook.com/RootsonomyGenealogy or > by email to rootsonomy@gmail.com. Mention Transitional Genealogists > Forum to get the lookup for free. > > Record(s) will be sent via email usually within 48 hours. > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive > environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to > professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Established research firm provides free lookups at the Family History Library in Salt Lake City of books, magazines, fiche, or film. Simple 2-step process: 1.  Locate the desired collection in the FamilySearch Catalog: familysearch.org/#form=catalog OR familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlc/ 2.  Send the request at www.facebook.com/RootsonomyGenealogy or by email to rootsonomy@gmail.com.  Mention Transitional Genealogists Forum to get the lookup for free. Record(s) will be sent via email usually within 48 hours.

Greetings, all I hope someone on the list has some expertise in North Carolina estate and property laws in the late 1800s. Here is the situation…. Rutherford County, North Carolina William Lovelace and Cintha Lovelace, M. R. Lovelace [son of William and Cintha] and wife U. J. Lovelace, B. W. Philbeck and wife E. A. Philbeck [daughter of William and Cintha], and M. P. Green [daughter of William and Cintha], to George Lovelace [son of William and Cintha] for $150… “the said William and Cintha do bargain and convey to the said George Lovelace, to hold at their death, and the said [siblings] their interest in a tract of land….” And there follows the metes and bounds description of the parcel, a 40 acre tract. Signed by all parties on 21 October 1879, witnessed and signed by a justice of the peace. The Clerk of Superior Court adjudged the document to be correct and ordered it to be registered on 15 February 1889. The document was filed for registration on that day. Question: Does the registration of this general warranty deed imply that William and Cintha had died? A later deed: M. R. and wife Jane Lovelace and Wm Lovelace to John Walker for $158.67 ½ cents, a parcel adjoining the parcel in the first deed. Signed by all parties on 17 Jan 1883. Does Cintha’s absence from this deed imply that she was dead by this date? Thanks for any insight… Peace, Part of the Tree, Greg