Robert, This is what I think it says: James Carlisle Dead On last Sunday at 11 o'clock the ______ James Carlisle, and old resident of this city _____ _____ to the great unknown. Mr. Carlisle had been suffering for some time ____ result of a _____ stroke about a year ago from the effects of which he finally succumbed. He leaves a wife and three [married] children to mourn the loss. The funeral service was held at the home conducted by the Rev ... of the Presbyterian Church, after which the [remains were] laid to rest in the Westview Cemetery. The first unknown word is probably some like venerable. At any rate it is some kind of descriptor. If you have the death record it may reference the type of stroke he had. Hope this helps. Ann Gilchrest Good Afternoon all. I have been trying to decipher a very difficult to read obituary from 1896. I have a link to my dropbox folder to 3 different picture versions of the obit (jpg, png and tif) as well as the PDF from newspaperarcive.com Obituary files <https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dgq5qxa4h0mu7o9/F4TKE1Np4z> Here is what I have so far: James Carlisle Dead On last Sunday at 11 o'clock the .... and old.. ... had been ... ... ... ... ... which is finally ... He leaves a wife and three...children to mourn the loss. The funeral service was held at the home conducted by the Rev ... of the Presbyterian Church, after which the... was laid to rest in the Westview Cemetery. Thanks for your help in advance. (This has been driving me crazy for some time, so your help in restoring my insanity is appreciated) -- Sincerely, Robert M Ankenbauer Jr

Thomas McEntee wrote: [snipped] > I do think there are issues as to how we as a community of genealogists > welcomes newcomers. One of the issues is criticism of beginning genealogists' work, as when they post a family tree containing erroneous information. Better education of beginners could curtail the criticism. Genealogy information providers, like Ancestry.com and FamilySearch.org, should place a statement at the beginning of their education pages to the effect that proof is a fundamental concept in family (genealogical) research. In order not to alienate potential researchers (customers, in the case of Ancestry), the providers could follow the statement by saying many of the sources of proof are available at their website. Bonnie Dunphy Kohler South Florida

Just to clarify Phyllis's comment about ID, you'll need picture ID to get through the door, then you'll need to get a researcher card to request records and navigate the rest of the building. You'll show photo ID and sign in with security. If you're there before 9 am you'll be directed to the bench in the lobby to wait until they let researchers in, but otherwise you'll go through the next set of doors. Head to registration to get your researcher card right away. You need it to do anything else and a line often forms, so get it over with.  As of about 3 weeks ago, when you stand in the inner lobby there will be two sets of double doors to your right and two sets to your left. You'll want the doors on the left. When you're standing facing them, the set on the left leads to the lockers and restrooms. You will need a quarter for the locker, which you'll get back when you take your things out. The website will tell you what you're allowed to take upstairs. The rest goes in the locker. I use a gallon ziplock bag for my wallet, my phone, my battery charger, spare camera batteries, a flash drive, and my computer cords. It makes it much easier, since I'm also carrying my computer, camera, and printed copies of pension card images from Ancestry (there can be notations on the cards that help to locate the record, so I always print these out and take them).  You'll go through the other set of doors to fill out the request form. Ask the staff any questions you have and if the first person's answer doesn't help, ask someone else. Everybody is really nice and helpful, but some people are more knowledgeable and some are good problem solvers, while others aren't as helpful. They rotate around the building throughout the day, so it isn't hard to find someone else to ask questions.  You're welcome to send me a message off-list if you have more questions. I'm there pretty regularly and will be there again early next week.  Ann Gillespie ________________________________ From: "transitional-genealogists-forum-request@rootsweb.com" <transitional-genealogists-forum-request@rootsweb.com> To: transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com  Hi all, I am thrilled to be pursuing a line for my first paying client!  I have found digital copies of a pension file index and General Index for Isaac O. Lowe of C Company 31 Indiana Infantry, but fold3, familysearch, and ancestry do not have copies of the actual service file or actual pension. 3 - what the heck do I do when I get to NARA? My inclination is to go to the first desk I see and beg for mercy. The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Good Afternoon all. I have been trying to decipher a very difficult to read obituary from 1896. I have a link to my dropbox folder to 3 different picture versions of the obit (jpg, png and tif) as well as the PDF from newspaperarcive.com Obituary files <https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dgq5qxa4h0mu7o9/F4TKE1Np4z> Here is what I have so far: James Carlisle Dead On last Sunday at 11 o'clock the .... and old.. ... had been ... ... ... ... ... which is finally ... He leaves a wife and three...children to mourn the loss. The funeral service was held at the home conducted by the Rev ... of the Presbyterian Church, after which the... was laid to rest in the Westview Cemetery. Thanks for your help in advance. (This has been driving me crazy for some time, so your help in restoring my insanity is appreciated) -- Sincerely, Robert M Ankenbauer Jr

I guess the equipment was malfunctioning. Michael Hait, CG(sm) michael.hait@hotmail.com http://www.haitfamilyresearch.com "Planting the Seeds" Blog: http://michaelhait.wordpress.com CG and Certified Genealogist are service marks of the Board for Certification of Genealogists, used under license by board certificants after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office. From: pgarratt@gessert.us Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 11:53 AM To: Michael Hait Cc: 'M KC' ; transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [TGF] help with Civil War Service and Pension Records for aneophyte Michael, I did not even try as every person working there said it wasn't working properly and that the only choices were to photocopy or photograph. I took their word for it....maybe I shouldn't have. -----Original Message----- From: "Michael Hait" <michael.hait@hotmail.com> The last time I went to Archives I (this summer), I had absolutely no problem scanning and saving images of several pension files to a flash drive. I'm not sure why anyone would have told you that it couldn't be done. Michael Hait, CG(sm)

The last time I went to Archives I (this summer), I had absolutely no problem scanning and saving images of several pension files to a flash drive. I'm not sure why anyone would have told you that it couldn't be done. Michael Hait, CG(sm) michael.hait@hotmail.com http://www.haitfamilyresearch.com "Planting the Seeds" Blog: http://michaelhait.wordpress.com CG and Certified Genealogist are service marks of the Board for Certification of Genealogists, used under license by board certificants after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office. -----Original Message----- From: Phyllis Garratt Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:35 PM To: 'M KC' ; transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [TGF] help with Civil War Service and Pension Records for aneophyte Molly, I just got back from spending a week at NARA in Washington DC for the first time. The best way to find out more is to go to their website and read about the rules, hours, process, etc. http://www.archives.gov/dc-metro/washington/ I was looking for pension files and found about 14, some being 180 pages long. Copies are 25 cents each or you can photograph the file. Their copiers don’t really allow easy saving to a flash drive, or so they told me. But they have a very nice setup where you can attach your camera and photograph the documents. Security is very tight there so be sure to read up on what is allowed inside. They have computers on the first floor so you can look up on Ancestry the service and pension record numbers. Be sure to talk to the librarian on the first floor to find out what is needed on the request form (typically name of soldier and dependent (if there is one), all the application numbers and certification numbers you will find on the Ancestry index. The unit information (ex: 4th Kentucky Infantry), the war, etc. You are very limited as to what you can bring into the second floor research room. You will need to register on the first floor and get a photo ID before you can use the facilities. They also have Microfilm on the first floor. But the first thing you should do is check out their website above. Phyllis Gessert Garratt -----Original Message----- From: transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of M KC Subject: [TGF] help with Civil War Service and Pension Records for a neophyte Hi all, I am thrilled to be pursuing a line for my first paying client! I have found digital copies of a pension file index and General Index for Isaac O. Lowe of C Company 31 Indiana Infantry, but fold3, familysearch, and ancestry do not have copies of the actual service file or actual pension. 3 - what the heck do I do when I get to NARA? My inclination is to go to the first desk I see and beg for mercy. The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Oops... My email went out without my signature. I wasn't trying to be anonymous! Here it is, signed. I finally managed to find Sharon Tate Moody's blog post, and have read only a handful of other blogs and emails about it. I want to make only a few observations. - All great music was once new. All genealogists were once beginners. Beginners learn. - Some beginners eventually become great genealogists, but not all aspire to such heights. That is o.k. - Bad genealogists and good genealogists have equal access to the Internet. Fact and fiction reproduce equally fast on the Internet. User beware. Tony Proctor said, "The industry should be able to help solve these issues but we're very fragmented." This points up another interesting reality. That is, genealogy is both a hobby and a profession. That is, people enjoy genealogy at very different levels. This is somewhat unusual -- for example, medicine and law do not invite people to engage in medicine or law as a hobby. In addition, genealogy has become an "industry" of sorts, which is to say, a constellation of firms sell services to genealogists -- both hobbyists and professionals. These firms are in it to make money, not to police the field. Their goal is to sell, not regulate. Should someone regulate? Actually, the field already has some effective self-regulation: certification, accreditation, codes of ethics. Is this enough? Good question. J. H. ("Jay") Fonkert, CG View my speaking calendar at: _http://www.genealogicalspeakersguild.org/calendar_view.php_ (http://www.genealogicalspeakersguild.org/calendar_view.php) _http://www.fourgenerationsgenealogy.wordpress.com_ (http://www.fourgenerationsgenealogy.wordpress.com/) _http://fourgenerationsgenealogy.blogspot.com/_ (http://fourgenerationsgenealogy.blogspot.com/) Saint Paul, MN Director, Association of Professional Genealogists professional profile at _www.apgen.org_ (http://www.apgen.org)/) *"CG" & "Certified Genealogist" are service marks of the Board for Certification of Genealogists, and are used by authorized associates following periodic, peer-reviewed competency evaluations. Certificate No. 965, issued 11 May 2012, expires 11 May 2017. In a message dated 11/23/2012 4:31:40 A.M. Central Standard Time, tony@proctor.net writes: That sort of attitude (in the articles) smacks of elitism Kathy. It's not good. However, I find myself in the centre of things on a number of fronts. I was a beginner once, and (embarrassed) didn't cite my sources. A light came on one day and I realised that was a big mistake so I had to re-trace my steps and correct everything. The point being that we were most of us there once. However, I also believe the atrocious standard of some online trees is diluting the reputation of genealogy, and making is less of a science than other forms of micro-history. Criticising individuals is not the way to solve that situation though. The fault lies in other areas such as lack of easily accessible education for newbies, lack of support for sources+citations by content providers, lack of a reliable standard for sharing more than just names+dates+places, and the encouragement of blatant copy-and-paste from other trees. OK, you might be preparing to counter some of those. For instance, many Web sites and books try to educate, but most people who are just starting will be unaware of them. They see the advertisements for the likes of ancestry and maybe buy genealogy magazines from their newsagent. Some magazines are better than others but I know that most are reluctant to approach anything with a vaguely technical vein to it. The information on the Internet is there but there's probably too much of it, and its uncoordinated and opinionated content would give most newbies "information overload". The industry should be able to help solve these issues but we're very fragmented - especially across the globe. Commercial and "philosophical" self-interests make it very hard to unite us. It's probably unrelated to your original post but there's a different type of perceived elitism between traditional genealogists and the professional software people. I do hope the perception is not too grounded in reality because synergy between those disciplines is the way of the future. It is not productive for software people to criticise genealogists for their lack of understanding about issues with storage, data modelling, globalisation, standards, etc. Nor is it productive for genealogists to criticise software people for their lack of knowledge about research methodology or real-life scenarios. In reality there are many people who have a foot in both camps. Tony Proctor (Organising member of FHISO) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Gunter Sullivan, CG" <sully1@carolina.rr.com> To: "TGF" <transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 1:58 AM Subject: [TGF] Bad Karma >I cannot comment at the /Tampa Bay/ website > <http://www2.tbo.com/lifestyles/life/2012/nov/18/banewso8-drive-by-genealogists-should-learn-a-few-ar-567094/> > because I do not do Facebook. Some bloggers have picked up the article > and made it a "cause" in bloggers' world. > > <http://wetree.blogspot.com/2012/11/time-to-pop-cap-in-term-drive-by.html> > <http://mmgenealogy.blogspot.com/2012/11/grand-theft-genealogy.html> > <http://sherifenley.blogspot.com/2012/11/ketchup-and-thanksgiving-this-is-not.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogsp ot%2FrwzNy+%28THE++EDUCATED++GENEALOGIST%29> > > The slammed author attempts to point out and educate about problems > with evidence evaluation. Hyperbole--exaggeration to create emphasis > or effect--is employed by many authors and bloggers to make a point is > not a bad thing. In this instance it is inflated on flogs (oops, > blogs) as if it is a personal attack on "hobbiests" [/sic]/ and > Ancestry.com--neither of which were mentioned in the author's article. > And as if "license" was a serious proposition. There was no personal > attack upon anyone in the author's article despite the prevailing > crowd mentality of the commentators (a few of whom admit they have not > even read the article). > > Not everything about is "you" (whoever you are). There is no > common-sense reason to take every comment by an author or a blogger as > a personal affront. > > Kathy Gunter Sullivan > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive > environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to > professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I finally managed to find Sharon Tate Moody's blog post, and have read only a handful of other blogs and emails about it. I want to make only a few observations. - All great music was once new. All genealogists were once beginners. Beginners learn. - Some beginners eventually become great genealogists, but not all aspire to such heights. That is o.k. - Bad genealogists and good genealogists have equal access to the Internet. Fact and fiction reproduce equally fast on the Internet. User beware. Tony Proctor said, "The industry should be able to help solve these issues but we're very fragmented." This points up another interesting reality. That is, genealogy is both a hobby and a profession. That is, people enjoy genealogy at very different levels. This is somewhat unusual -- for example, medicine and law do not invite people to engage in medicine or law as a hobby. In addition, genealogy has become an "industry" of sorts, which is to say, a constellation of firms sell services to genealogists -- both hobbyists and professionals. These firms are in it to make money, not to police the field. Their goal is to sell, not regulate. Should someone regulate? Actually, the field already has some effective self-regulation: certification, accreditation, codes of ethics. Is this enough? Good question. -----Original Message----- From: Tony Proctor <tony@proctor.net> To: Kathy Gunter Sullivan, CG <sully1@carolina.rr.com>; TGF <transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com> Sent: Fri, Nov 23, 2012 4:31 am Subject: Re: [TGF] Bad Karma That sort of attitude (in the articles) smacks of elitism Kathy. It's not good. However, I find myself in the centre of things on a number of fronts. I was a beginner once, and (embarrassed) didn't cite my sources. A light came on one day and I realised that was a big mistake so I had to re-trace my steps and correct everything. The point being that we were most of us there once. However, I also believe the atrocious standard of some online trees is diluting the reputation of genealogy, and making is less of a science than other forms of micro-history. Criticising individuals is not the way to solve that situation though. The fault lies in other areas such as lack of easily accessible education for newbies, lack of support for sources+citations by content providers, lack of a reliable standard for sharing more than just names+dates+places, and the encouragement of blatant copy-and-paste from other trees. OK, you might be preparing to counter some of those. For instance, many Web sites and books try to educate, but most people who are just starting will be unaware of them. They see the advertisements for the likes of ancestry and maybe buy genealogy magazines from their newsagent. Some magazines are better than others but I know that most are reluctant to approach anything with a vaguely technical vein to it. The information on the Internet is there but there's probably too much of it, and its uncoordinated and opinionated content would give most newbies "information overload". The industry should be able to help solve these issues but we're very fragmented - especially across the globe. Commercial and "philosophical" self-interests make it very hard to unite us. It's probably unrelated to your original post but there's a different type of perceived elitism between traditional genealogists and the professional software people. I do hope the perception is not too grounded in reality because synergy between those disciplines is the way of the future. It is not productive for software people to criticise genealogists for their lack of understanding about issues with storage, data modelling, globalisation, standards, etc. Nor is it productive for genealogists to criticise software people for their lack of knowledge about research methodology or real-life scenarios. In reality there are many people who have a foot in both camps. Tony Proctor (Organising member of FHISO) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Gunter Sullivan, CG" <sully1@carolina.rr.com> To: "TGF" <transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 1:58 AM Subject: [TGF] Bad Karma >I cannot comment at the /Tampa Bay/ website > <http://www2.tbo.com/lifestyles/life/2012/nov/18/banewso8-drive-by-genealogists-should-learn-a-few-ar-567094/> > because I do not do Facebook. Some bloggers have picked up the article > and made it a "cause" in bloggers' world. > > <http://wetree.blogspot.com/2012/11/time-to-pop-cap-in-term-drive-by.html> > <http://mmgenealogy.blogspot.com/2012/11/grand-theft-genealogy.html> > <http://sherifenley.blogspot.com/2012/11/ketchup-and-thanksgiving-this-is-not.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FrwzNy+%28THE++EDUCATED++GENEALOGIST%29> > > The slammed author attempts to point out and educate about problems > with evidence evaluation. Hyperbole--exaggeration to create emphasis > or effect--is employed by many authors and bloggers to make a point is > not a bad thing. In this instance it is inflated on flogs (oops, > blogs) as if it is a personal attack on "hobbiests" [/sic]/ and > Ancestry.com--neither of which were mentioned in the author's article. > And as if "license" was a serious proposition. There was no personal > attack upon anyone in the author's article despite the prevailing > crowd mentality of the commentators (a few of whom admit they have not > even read the article). > > Not everything about is "you" (whoever you are). There is no > common-sense reason to take every comment by an author or a blogger as > a personal affront. > > Kathy Gunter Sullivan > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive > environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to > professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

That sort of attitude (in the articles) smacks of elitism Kathy. It's not good. However, I find myself in the centre of things on a number of fronts. I was a beginner once, and (embarrassed) didn't cite my sources. A light came on one day and I realised that was a big mistake so I had to re-trace my steps and correct everything. The point being that we were most of us there once. However, I also believe the atrocious standard of some online trees is diluting the reputation of genealogy, and making is less of a science than other forms of micro-history. Criticising individuals is not the way to solve that situation though. The fault lies in other areas such as lack of easily accessible education for newbies, lack of support for sources+citations by content providers, lack of a reliable standard for sharing more than just names+dates+places, and the encouragement of blatant copy-and-paste from other trees. OK, you might be preparing to counter some of those. For instance, many Web sites and books try to educate, but most people who are just starting will be unaware of them. They see the advertisements for the likes of ancestry and maybe buy genealogy magazines from their newsagent. Some magazines are better than others but I know that most are reluctant to approach anything with a vaguely technical vein to it. The information on the Internet is there but there's probably too much of it, and its uncoordinated and opinionated content would give most newbies "information overload". The industry should be able to help solve these issues but we're very fragmented - especially across the globe. Commercial and "philosophical" self-interests make it very hard to unite us. It's probably unrelated to your original post but there's a different type of perceived elitism between traditional genealogists and the professional software people. I do hope the perception is not too grounded in reality because synergy between those disciplines is the way of the future. It is not productive for software people to criticise genealogists for their lack of understanding about issues with storage, data modelling, globalisation, standards, etc. Nor is it productive for genealogists to criticise software people for their lack of knowledge about research methodology or real-life scenarios. In reality there are many people who have a foot in both camps. Tony Proctor (Organising member of FHISO) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Gunter Sullivan, CG" <sully1@carolina.rr.com> To: "TGF" <transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 1:58 AM Subject: [TGF] Bad Karma >I cannot comment at the /Tampa Bay/ website > <http://www2.tbo.com/lifestyles/life/2012/nov/18/banewso8-drive-by-genealogists-should-learn-a-few-ar-567094/> > because I do not do Facebook. Some bloggers have picked up the article > and made it a "cause" in bloggers' world. > > <http://wetree.blogspot.com/2012/11/time-to-pop-cap-in-term-drive-by.html> > <http://mmgenealogy.blogspot.com/2012/11/grand-theft-genealogy.html> > <http://sherifenley.blogspot.com/2012/11/ketchup-and-thanksgiving-this-is-not.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FrwzNy+%28THE++EDUCATED++GENEALOGIST%29> > > The slammed author attempts to point out and educate about problems > with evidence evaluation. Hyperbole--exaggeration to create emphasis > or effect--is employed by many authors and bloggers to make a point is > not a bad thing. In this instance it is inflated on flogs (oops, > blogs) as if it is a personal attack on "hobbiests" [/sic]/ and > Ancestry.com--neither of which were mentioned in the author's article. > And as if "license" was a serious proposition. There was no personal > attack upon anyone in the author's article despite the prevailing > crowd mentality of the commentators (a few of whom admit they have not > even read the article). > > Not everything about is "you" (whoever you are). There is no > common-sense reason to take every comment by an author or a blogger as > a personal affront. > > Kathy Gunter Sullivan > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive > environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to > professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message

Michael, I did not even try as every person working there said it wasn't working properly and that the only choices were to photocopy or photograph. I took their word for it....maybe I shouldn't have. -----Original Message----- From: "Michael Hait" <michael.hait@hotmail.com> The last time I went to Archives I (this summer), I had absolutely no problem scanning and saving images of several pension files to a flash drive. I'm not sure why anyone would have told you that it couldn't be done. Michael Hait, CG(sm)

Okay, this will be my last posting about Tyrone but I wanted you all to know the story about the surname Bowes (he thought it was English before he DNA tested) and how he found the names of his 37 marker medieval neighbors in an epic Irish poem and then found the placename Bowes Crossing where his distant relatives live today and are still farming. I mean how much more exciting can genealogy get? Daniela ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 13:02:22 -0700 From: "Daniela Moneta" <dmoneta@cox.net> Subject: [TGF] Interesting Seminars in Phoenix To: <transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <001e01cdc8ec$49435940$dbca0bc0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I posted something about two very interesting seminars we had at my library this past weekend. DNA turns a lot of genealogists off but this is one of the most exciting things happening today. I invited some of you who are on Facebook to befriend me. Those of you that are not on Facebook, send me an email and I will copy what I posted. Daniela Moneta, CG, CGL Genealogy Librarian McClelland Irish Library 1106 North Central Ave. Phoenix, AZ 85004 www.azirishlibrary.org CG, Certified Genealogist, CGL, and Certified Genealogical Lecturer are Service Marks of the Board for Certification of GenealogistsR used under license by board certificants after periodic evaluations by the Board and the board name is a trademark registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office.

Simple response: The trolls are out there, and are going to raise their ignorant voices and show what fools they are, for all the world to see. The best policy is to ignore them. Or as former Florida Governor Charlie Christ said when one of the parties to a branch of the General Petraeus scandal tried to implicate him in the shenanigans of the Kelley sisters: "Consider the source." It really is not worth getting yourself exercised over, because the whole effort of trying to "educate" the trolls is similar to that of trying to teach a pig to sing: It wastes your time and annoys the pig. Karen Packard Rhodes Enjoying a holiday at home in Middleburg, Clay County, Florida On 11/22/2012 8:58 PM, Kathy Gunter Sullivan, CG wrote: > I cannot comment at the /Tampa Bay/ website > <http://www2.tbo.com/lifestyles/life/2012/nov/18/banewso8-drive-by-genealogists-should-learn-a-few-ar-567094/> > because I do not do Facebook. Some bloggers have picked up the article > and made it a "cause" in bloggers' world. > > <http://wetree.blogspot.com/2012/11/time-to-pop-cap-in-term-drive-by.html> > <http://mmgenealogy.blogspot.com/2012/11/grand-theft-genealogy.html> > <http://sherifenley.blogspot.com/2012/11/ketchup-and-thanksgiving-this-is-not.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FrwzNy+%28THE++EDUCATED++GENEALOGIST%29> > > The slammed author attempts to point out and educate about problems > with evidence evaluation. Hyperbole--exaggeration to create emphasis > or effect--is employed by many authors and bloggers to make a point is > not a bad thing. In this instance it is inflated on flogs (oops, > blogs) as if it is a personal attack on "hobbiests" [/sic]/ and > Ancestry.com--neither of which were mentioned in the author's article. > And as if "license" was a serious proposition. There was no personal > attack upon anyone in the author's article despite the prevailing > crowd mentality of the commentators (a few of whom admit they have not > even read the article). > > Not everything about is "you" (whoever you are). There is no > common-sense reason to take every comment by an author or a blogger as > a personal affront. > > Kathy Gunter Sullivan >

Thanks Kathy for your comments - I don't necessarily agree with them - but the fact is that you've found a venue in which to voice your opinion (this mailing list). Which is exactly what the various genealogy bloggers you mention are doing. I've kept relatively quiet about Sharon Tate Moody's article and while I don't feel as passionately about it as some others do (I've opted not to express my views), I respect the fact that the article has initiated a conversation about a variety of topics. Before we go bad-mouthing the bloggers (which happens frequently in the genealogy community), let me say that Sharon nor anyone who publishes content on the Internet should be surprised by the comments and posts. This is a reality of "putting yourself out there" in terms of producing content and publishing. You need a pretty thick skin to do this - which most columnists and bloggers have. I am actually enjoying the conversation in the community that has developed even though I don't agree with everything being written. I do think there are issues as to how we as a community of genealogists welcomes newcomers. I'd rather have us talk about it than not talk about it. This isn't about bad karma. This is about having an opinion and voicing it. Cheers Thomas MacEntee Founder, High-Definition Genealogy http://hidefgen.com +1 (773) 661-3080 -----Original Message----- From: transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kathy Gunter Sullivan, CG Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 7:59 PM To: TGF Subject: [TGF] Bad Karma I cannot comment at the /Tampa Bay/ website <http://www2.tbo.com/lifestyles/life/2012/nov/18/banewso8-drive-by-genealogi sts-should-learn-a-few-ar-567094/> because I do not do Facebook. Some bloggers have picked up the article and made it a "cause" in bloggers' world. <http://wetree.blogspot.com/2012/11/time-to-pop-cap-in-term-drive-by.html> <http://mmgenealogy.blogspot.com/2012/11/grand-theft-genealogy.html> <http://sherifenley.blogspot.com/2012/11/ketchup-and-thanksgiving-this-is-no t.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot% 2FrwzNy+%28THE++EDUCATED++GENEALOGIST%29> The slammed author attempts to point out and educate about problems with evidence evaluation. Hyperbole--exaggeration to create emphasis or effect--is employed by many authors and bloggers to make a point is not a bad thing. In this instance it is inflated on flogs (oops, blogs) as if it is a personal attack on "hobbiests" [/sic]/ and Ancestry.com--neither of which were mentioned in the author's article. And as if "license" was a serious proposition. There was no personal attack upon anyone in the author's article despite the prevailing crowd mentality of the commentators (a few of whom admit they have not even read the article). Not everything about is "you" (whoever you are). There is no common-sense reason to take every comment by an author or a blogger as a personal affront. Kathy Gunter Sullivan The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I cannot comment at the /Tampa Bay/ website <http://www2.tbo.com/lifestyles/life/2012/nov/18/banewso8-drive-by-genealogists-should-learn-a-few-ar-567094/> because I do not do Facebook. Some bloggers have picked up the article and made it a "cause" in bloggers' world. <http://wetree.blogspot.com/2012/11/time-to-pop-cap-in-term-drive-by.html> <http://mmgenealogy.blogspot.com/2012/11/grand-theft-genealogy.html> <http://sherifenley.blogspot.com/2012/11/ketchup-and-thanksgiving-this-is-not.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FrwzNy+%28THE++EDUCATED++GENEALOGIST%29> The slammed author attempts to point out and educate about problems with evidence evaluation. Hyperbole--exaggeration to create emphasis or effect--is employed by many authors and bloggers to make a point is not a bad thing. In this instance it is inflated on flogs (oops, blogs) as if it is a personal attack on "hobbiests" [/sic]/ and Ancestry.com--neither of which were mentioned in the author's article. And as if "license" was a serious proposition. There was no personal attack upon anyone in the author's article despite the prevailing crowd mentality of the commentators (a few of whom admit they have not even read the article). Not everything about is "you" (whoever you are). There is no common-sense reason to take every comment by an author or a blogger as a personal affront. Kathy Gunter Sullivan

After receiving Michael's message I went out to Family Search and did some poking around. I discovered that when you open the record on Family Search the birth date is not listed but it is listed on the results page. I then went to the information page "About this collection" On this page I discovered that the index on Family Search came from Ancestry. My guess is that when Ancestry went into partnership with Vital Check one of the parties changed the database omitting the certificate number. Going to Ancestry's description of the database it says most records include the certificate numbers. This is a great example of why EE adds access dates to citations! Ann In a message dated 22-Nov-12 09:27:57 US Mountain Standard Time, michael.hait@hotmail.com writes: The certificate number (but not the exact birth date) is listed in FamilySearch's version of the same death index.

Thanks Michael! I should have mentioned that as part of the "citation clean up" I am making lists of all the certificates I need to order and wanted to double check the numbers I had. Ann In a message dated 22-Nov-12 09:27:57 US Mountain Standard Time, michael.hait@hotmail.com writes: The certificate number (but not the exact birth date) is listed in FamilySearch's version of the same death index. I would recommend highly that you send away for the original certificate. The cost from the FL Department of Health is only $5 per certificate, and they generally arrive in less than 2 weeks. (Of course, the holidays may slow down the mail a little bit.) Then you do not have to worry about Ancestry's database, as you will be able to cite the certificate itself. Michael Hait, CG(sm) michael.hait@hotmail.com http://www.haitfamilyresearch.com "Planting the Seeds" Blog: http://michaelhait.wordpress.com CG and Certified Genealogist are service marks of the Board for Certification of Genealogists, used under license by board certificants after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office. -----Original Message----- From: AGilchrest@aol.com I hope I am not loosing my mind! Hopefully someone may know the answer. I have been cleaning up citations. During this process I have been going back to where I found information formatting my citation and checking the data originally entered. Some of this research was done when Ancestry.com first came online. In late 2003 I started adding the date I added information. The following information was placed in my notes before 2003. Florida Death Index 1877-1998 Name: David M Gilchrist Certificate: 25625 Place: Palm Beach Race: W Death Date: 13 Mar 1978 Birth Date: 05 Jun 1897 Today I went to look at the index on Ancestry.com. The certificate number is no longer listed. Does anyone know if these numbers where deleted? I did do a search in the index on just the number, the result was 130 people including David M Gilchrist. My only other thought was I got this from some other source and didn't make a note of where I got it. Thanks, Ann Gilchrest The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive

I posted something about two very interesting seminars we had at my library this past weekend. DNA turns a lot of genealogists off but this is one of the most exciting things happening today. I invited some of you who are on Facebook to befriend me. Those of you that are not on Facebook, send me an email and I will copy what I posted. Daniela Moneta, CG, CGL Genealogy Librarian McClelland Irish Library 1106 North Central Ave. Phoenix, AZ 85004 www.azirishlibrary.org CG, Certified Genealogist, CGL, and Certified Genealogical Lecturer are Service Marks of the Board for Certification of GenealogistsR used under license by board certificants after periodic evaluations by the Board and the board name is a trademark registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office.

Molly, I just got back from spending a week at NARA in Washington DC for the first time. The best way to find out more is to go to their website and read about the rules, hours, process, etc. http://www.archives.gov/dc-metro/washington/ I was looking for pension files and found about 14, some being 180 pages long. Copies are 25 cents each or you can photograph the file. Their copiers don’t really allow easy saving to a flash drive, or so they told me. But they have a very nice setup where you can attach your camera and photograph the documents. Security is very tight there so be sure to read up on what is allowed inside. They have computers on the first floor so you can look up on Ancestry the service and pension record numbers. Be sure to talk to the librarian on the first floor to find out what is needed on the request form (typically name of soldier and dependent (if there is one), all the application numbers and certification numbers you will find on the Ancestry index. The unit information (ex: 4th Kentucky Infantry), the war, etc. You are very limited as to what you can bring into the second floor research room. You will need to register on the first floor and get a photo ID before you can use the facilities. They also have Microfilm on the first floor. But the first thing you should do is check out their website above. Phyllis Gessert Garratt -----Original Message----- From: transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of M KC Subject: [TGF] help with Civil War Service and Pension Records for a neophyte Hi all, I am thrilled to be pursuing a line for my first paying client!  I have found digital copies of a pension file index and General Index for Isaac O. Lowe of C Company 31 Indiana Infantry, but fold3, familysearch, and ancestry do not have copies of the actual service file or actual pension.  3 - what the heck do I do when I get to NARA? My inclination is to go to the first desk I see and beg for mercy.

The certificate number (but not the exact birth date) is listed in FamilySearch's version of the same death index. I would recommend highly that you send away for the original certificate. The cost from the FL Department of Health is only $5 per certificate, and they generally arrive in less than 2 weeks. (Of course, the holidays may slow down the mail a little bit.) Then you do not have to worry about Ancestry's database, as you will be able to cite the certificate itself. Michael Hait, CG(sm) michael.hait@hotmail.com http://www.haitfamilyresearch.com "Planting the Seeds" Blog: http://michaelhait.wordpress.com CG and Certified Genealogist are service marks of the Board for Certification of Genealogists, used under license by board certificants after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office. -----Original Message----- From: AGilchrest@aol.com Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 11:09 AM To: transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com Subject: [TGF] Ancestry.com Florida Death Index I hope I am not loosing my mind! Hopefully someone may know the answer. I have been cleaning up citations. During this process I have been going back to where I found information formatting my citation and checking the data originally entered. Some of this research was done when Ancestry.com first came online. In late 2003 I started adding the date I added information. The following information was placed in my notes before 2003. Florida Death Index 1877-1998 Name: David M Gilchrist Certificate: 25625 Place: Palm Beach Race: W Death Date: 13 Mar 1978 Birth Date: 05 Jun 1897 Today I went to look at the index on Ancestry.com. The certificate number is no longer listed. Does anyone know if these numbers where deleted? I did do a search in the index on just the number, the result was 130 people including David M Gilchrist. My only other thought was I got this from some other source and didn't make a note of where I got it. Thanks, Ann Gilchrest The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I hope I am not loosing my mind! Hopefully someone may know the answer. I have been cleaning up citations. During this process I have been going back to where I found information formatting my citation and checking the data originally entered. Some of this research was done when Ancestry.com first came online. In late 2003 I started adding the date I added information. The following information was placed in my notes before 2003. Florida Death Index 1877-1998 Name: David M Gilchrist Certificate: 25625 Place: Palm Beach Race: W Death Date: 13 Mar 1978 Birth Date: 05 Jun 1897 Today I went to look at the index on Ancestry.com. The certificate number is no longer listed. Does anyone know if these numbers where deleted? I did do a search in the index on just the number, the result was 130 people including David M Gilchrist. My only other thought was I got this from some other source and didn't make a note of where I got it. Thanks, Ann Gilchrest