On Dec 13, 2012, at 5:44 AM, Sue Adams wrote: > My cousin recently got engaged, which was announced on Facebook. How do > I cite this? Are there any elements that are specific to social media? If you follow Evidence Explained on Facebook, you can find a posting on this very topic on 29 October.

Joyce, Like you said, this is an intro. I would think the citations you insert into the body story would explain everything clearly. I like your intro and it would get my interest enough to continue reading.   At least you are moving forward.  I'm still struggling with details in my biography of an ancestor.  You motivate me to keep on.  Thanks!   Cheryl Proctor Southern Indiana ________________________________ From: J. Mulder <j.mulder@hotmail.com> To: transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 2:49 PM Subject: [TGF] Citations Needed or Not? I'm in the process of writing a (short) biography for one of my ancestors, Lodewijk Wesselo. It's almost finished, and I'm not going through it to make sure everything that needs a citation has one. But now I'm stumbling over several sentences in my introduction - or more accurately, over the question if I need to attach a citation to them. They are general sentences about his life, to catch the attention of the readers, and these events are named in more detail with proper citations in the biography. Below is the paragraph I'm talking about. [Preceding this paragraph, a paragraph long quote by Lodewijk Wesselo, with citation] Words written bij Lodewijk Wesselo in a letter to his brother Abraham Bernardus Wesselo, in which he tells of the bombardment of Rotterdam in May 1940 by German forces invading the Netherlands. By this time, Lodewijk had already lived through his share of ups and downs. During his life, he kept his faith throughout two world wars and one of the greatest floods the Netherlands has ever seen. He also experienced tragedy on a more personal scale, but his character and faith have helped him stand strong no matter how fierce the storm. his life's story, not even close to the end when the bombs were falling, starts many years earlier, back in 1875. [That ends the introduction, then a new "chapter" starts with: "Lodewijk, affectionately known as Lo, was born on 22 December 1875 in Voorschoten to Hendrik Wesselo and Alida Petronella van Grasstek." with a proper citation for this fact.] Now, there are several sentences in this paragraph that I am now thinking may need a citation. Or maybe not, since I don't exactly go into detail and I have them properly cited later on in the text when I do mention details. So I'm hesitating, about every sentence except for the first two of that paragraph, if I should add citations to them or not. What do you think? Joyce                         The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pardon the one-time "commercial" here, but many of you have asked . . . Since April, EvidenceExplained (2d ed., rev.) has been available for desktops and laptops, both Windows and Macs. The delivery software did not, at that time, cover tablets and smart phones. EvidenceExplained.com has just upgraded to software that makes it readable on almost every kind of device-e-readers, droid tablets and phones, iPads and iPhones, etc. (Amazon's proprietary Kindle is an exception. Amazon prefers to play in its own sandbox. :) For current users of EE's electronic edition: If you purchased an EE license to use on PCs or Macs and you have one or two downloads left on that license, you have two options: 1. You may still download the version you purchased onto any other desktop or laptop, whenever you need it. Simply use the license file that was attached to the license email you received when you made your purchase. Nothing has changed for you. 2. An upgrade is available if you have downloads remaining and you want to upgrade to the new software that enables tablet and smartphone devices and eReaders. However: (a) because the more-advanced reader software is totally different software, the conversion process has to be manually performed by the site administrator; and (b) converting to the new super-duper software with expanded capability carries a $5 upgrade fee. For the conversion, email StoreManager@EvidenceExplained.com, supply your original order number and the email address under which you ordered, and he will process the upgrade for you. If you are a new purchaser of EE or if you purchased the desktop-laptop version and have already used all your downloads, then downloading the electronic edition to work on whatever devices you have is a "Bookstore" transaction at EE's website. Elizabeth Elizabeth Shown Mills, CG, CGL, FASG www.HistoricPathways.com www.EvidenceExplained.com

Thanks Phil I thought Ah-ha, just what I need and very useful for Facebook posts However it is not quite so simple. The engagement was announced via a relationship status change. Unlike normal posts, the date is not a link, so I can't click on it to isolate the post. It seems that you can have only one relationship status at one time. I am not sure what happens to the previous posts when you change that status. Does anyone here know? Is it possible, permissions and privacy issues aside, to trace the history of a relationship on Facebook? I hope I have succesfully set posts relating to my experimental status changes to private, or I could have some very confused relatives and friends ;-) . Sue Adams Family Folk Blog: http://familyfolklore.wordpress.com/ On 14/12/2012 09:21, Philip Weiss wrote: > Facebook posts have an individual time stamp and URL that can be referenced > like the URL of an individual blog post. If you click on the time stamp for > the post, you are taken to a page just for that post, which you can cut and > paste or print for inclusion in files. > > When in cite facebook posts, i follow the format for an blog post from EE, > but without a title, with the date it was posted, URL for the individual > post and access date. > > FB does not currently allow editing of posts, but it does allow them to be > deleted or have their privacy levels changed. Since those can change, i > make a copy for my files. > > Phil. > > On Dec 14, 2012 12:49 AM, < > transitional-genealogists-forum-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: >> >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:44:42 +0000 >> From: Sue Adams <sueyadams@gmail.com> >> Subject: [TGF] Facebook citation >> To: transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com >> Message-ID: <50C9B19A.8040800@gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> My cousin recently got engaged, which was announced on Facebook. How do >> I cite this? Are there any elements that are specific to social media? >> >> -- >> >> Sue Adams >> >> Family Folk > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Good post, Phil. The time I used Facebook as a source, the information came from the page owner's biographical information. Bonnie Dunphy Kohler South Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Weiss" <weiss.philip@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 4:21 AM > Facebook posts have an individual time stamp and URL that can be > referenced > like the URL of an individual blog post. If you click on the time stamp > for > the post, you are taken to a page just for that post, which you can cut > and > paste or print for inclusion in files. > > When in cite facebook posts, i follow the format for an blog post from EE, > but without a title, with the date it was posted, URL for the individual > post and access date. > > FB does not currently allow editing of posts, but it does allow them to be > deleted or have their privacy levels changed. Since those can change, i > make a copy for my files. > > Phil.

Facebook posts have an individual time stamp and URL that can be referenced like the URL of an individual blog post. If you click on the time stamp for the post, you are taken to a page just for that post, which you can cut and paste or print for inclusion in files. When in cite facebook posts, i follow the format for an blog post from EE, but without a title, with the date it was posted, URL for the individual post and access date. FB does not currently allow editing of posts, but it does allow them to be deleted or have their privacy levels changed. Since those can change, i make a copy for my files. Phil. On Dec 14, 2012 12:49 AM, < transitional-genealogists-forum-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > > > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:44:42 +0000 > From: Sue Adams <sueyadams@gmail.com> > Subject: [TGF] Facebook citation > To: transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <50C9B19A.8040800@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > My cousin recently got engaged, which was announced on Facebook. How do > I cite this? Are there any elements that are specific to social media? > > -- > > Sue Adams > > Family Folk

It looks like K T to me. Note line 15 on image 16, where Ky is the abbreviation for Kentucky. Pat In Tucson -----Original Message----- From: transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Claudia Breland Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:06 PM To: transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com Subject: [TGF] 1860 Kansas Territory census record Hi all, I'm looking at the family of William Pearson, on the 1860 census of Iowa, Doniphan County, Kansas Territory, page 1025 , dwelling 1533, family 1396, on Ancestry here: http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=7667 <http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=7667&path=Kansas+Territory .Doniphan.Iowa.17&sid=&gskw=Lucinda+Pearson> &path=Kansas+Territory.Doniphan.Iowa.17&sid=&gskw=Lucinda+Pearson His youngest daughter Ellen (on the following page) is age 2, and I think she must have been born in Kansas Territory. However, the script looks like KY, and it's been transcribed/indexed as Kentucky. What do you think it should be? Thanks! Claudia Breland The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I looked a a couple of pages before and after. IMHO it should be Kansas Territory.   Mary Clement Douglass Transcribing & publishing Kansas genealogical records Have lectures, Will travel! URL: www.historical-matters.com   "If you can’t get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you’d best teach it to dance." – George Bernard Shaw ________________________________ From: Claudia Breland <ccbreland@comcast.net> To: transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 4:06 PM Subject: [TGF] 1860 Kansas Territory census record Hi all,   I'm looking at the family of William Pearson, on the 1860 census of Iowa, Doniphan County, Kansas Territory, page 1025 , dwelling 1533, family 1396, on Ancestry here: http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=7667 <http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=7667&path=Kansas+Territory .Doniphan.Iowa.17&sid=&gskw=Lucinda+Pearson> &path=Kansas+Territory.Doniphan.Iowa.17&sid=&gskw=Lucinda+Pearson His youngest daughter Ellen (on the following page) is age 2, and I think she must have been born in Kansas Territory.  However, the script looks like KY, and it's been transcribed/indexed as Kentucky.  What do you think it should be? Thanks! Claudia Breland The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi all, I'm looking at the family of William Pearson, on the 1860 census of Iowa, Doniphan County, Kansas Territory, page 1025 , dwelling 1533, family 1396, on Ancestry here: http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=7667 <http://search.ancestry.com/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=7667&path=Kansas+Territory .Doniphan.Iowa.17&sid=&gskw=Lucinda+Pearson> &path=Kansas+Territory.Doniphan.Iowa.17&sid=&gskw=Lucinda+Pearson His youngest daughter Ellen (on the following page) is age 2, and I think she must have been born in Kansas Territory. However, the script looks like KY, and it's been transcribed/indexed as Kentucky. What do you think it should be? Thanks! Claudia Breland

My cousin recently got engaged, which was announced on Facebook. How do I cite this? Are there any elements that are specific to social media? -- Sue Adams Family Folk Blog: http://familyfolklore.wordpress.com/

Sue, this was my rendition, using a fake name and address: Facebook.com, Betty Blue Stone page (http://www.facebook.com/#!/betty.bluestone : accessed 13 August 2012). Bonnie Dunphy Kohler South Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Adams" <sueyadams@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 5:44 AM Subject: [TGF] Facebook citation > My cousin recently got engaged, which was announced on Facebook. How do > I cite this? Are there any elements that are specific to social media? > > Sue Adams

I adapted an interview citation template to use for Facebook postings. On 12/13/2012 8:13 AM, Harold Henderson wrote: > Good question, Sue! I'm a regular user of FB, but now that you ask I'm not > sure I understand this source well enough to make a suggestion. You can > consult Evidence Explained 2.33 and 14.25-30. > > That said, Facebook posts seem to me to be more fugitive than podcasts or > blogs or mailing lists. Do they have their own URLs? How would you locate > the engagement announcement again in a year, say? Or ten? Giving the date > of viewing might not be enough. So I wonder . . . is citing a Facebook post > more like citing an email or a telephone call than anything else? > > At my current stage of ignorance, I might download or print the relevant > FB post, label it, and cite it as a personal holding in my research file > (an adaptation of EE 3.42, perhaps). I look forward to hearing more from > those who are better grounded in the 21st century! > > Harold > > > > > On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 4:44 AM, Sue Adams <sueyadams@gmail.com> wrote: > >> My cousin recently got engaged, which was announced on Facebook. How do >> I cite this? Are there any elements that are specific to social media? >> >> -- >> >> Sue Adams >> >> Family Folk >> >> Blog: http://familyfolklore.wordpress.com/ >> >> The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive >> environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to >> professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >

Good question, Sue! I'm a regular user of FB, but now that you ask I'm not sure I understand this source well enough to make a suggestion. You can consult Evidence Explained 2.33 and 14.25-30. That said, Facebook posts seem to me to be more fugitive than podcasts or blogs or mailing lists. Do they have their own URLs? How would you locate the engagement announcement again in a year, say? Or ten? Giving the date of viewing might not be enough. So I wonder . . . is citing a Facebook post more like citing an email or a telephone call than anything else? At my current stage of ignorance, I might download or print the relevant FB post, label it, and cite it as a personal holding in my research file (an adaptation of EE 3.42, perhaps). I look forward to hearing more from those who are better grounded in the 21st century! Harold On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 4:44 AM, Sue Adams <sueyadams@gmail.com> wrote: > My cousin recently got engaged, which was announced on Facebook. How do > I cite this? Are there any elements that are specific to social media? > > -- > > Sue Adams > > Family Folk > > Blog: http://familyfolklore.wordpress.com/ > > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive > environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to > professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Harold Henderson midwestroots.net Research, Writing, and Brickwall Dismantling from Northwest Indiana Regularly Researching at the Allen County Public Library Genealogy Center Certified Genealogist (SM) No. 1029 Certified Genealogist and CG are proprietary service marks of the Board for Certification of Genealogists® used by the Board to identify its program of genealogical competency evaluation and used under license by the Board’s associates.

Thanks to all who replied. Of course, the answers should have been obvious to me as it's only logical. Both of my parents were born at home as were most of my other ancestors. My sister and I seem to be the first on either side to have the luxury of being born in a hospital. I can tell you that it was far less expensive in the late 40's and early 50's!! Thanks again! Dave Robison -----Original Message----- From: transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of transitional-genealogists-forum-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 6:03 PM To: transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com Subject: TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM Digest, Vol 6, Issue 653 The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. Today's Topics: 1. Re: "Born in" or "Lived in" (Kith-n-Kin) 2. Re: "Born in" or "Lived in" (Charles S. Mason, Jr.) 3. Re: "Born in" or "Lived in" (cmproctor1@frontier.com) 4. Re: "Born in" or "Lived in" (jfonkert@aol.com) 5. Re: "Born in" or "Lived in" (Barbara Munson) 6. Re: "Born in" or "Lived in" (Dave Liesse) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 14:20:25 -0700 From: "Kith-n-Kin" <Kith-n-Kin@cox.net> Subject: Re: [TGF] "Born in" or "Lived in" To: "'Dave Robison'" <dave@oldbones.co>, <TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <00ca01cdd8ae$807d8030$81788090$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dave As the purpose of genealogy is to report the facts as accurately as possible, I vote for the actual place of birth, just as I would with a hospital death many miles from a person's residence (pretty common, I've found), or for that matter, a marriage "across the state line." For examples, my siblings and I were all born in a hospital in Medford, Oregon but lived, at the time, in a logging community (Kinzua) in eastern Oregon, while my grandparents lived near Jacksonville, just outside Medford. All the birth certificates say, "Medford." When asked, I say "Medford." My mother and father would travel across the state for the birth, then (after the requisite two weeks of in-hospital -- boy, were those the days -- travel back to eastern Oregon. A question I never thought to ask was if my father spent the entire time with us, or whether he brought mother, went back to work, and later came and got her. I suspect the latter. My grandparents, still living outside Jacksonville, Oregon, came to Flagstaff for the Christmas of 1959. Grandfather never made it home, dying in Flagstaff hospital. His death certificate reads Flagstaff, not Jacksonville. I would, however, put a note in the file "while on vacation to..." or words that effect, to prevent a future researcher from jumping to the wrong conclusion about where other records might be. Pat Dunford Tucson -----Original Message----- From: transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dave Robison Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 2:00 PM To: TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM@rootsweb.com Subject: [TGF] "Born in" or "Lived in" Although I've been researching my family and the families of others for a number of years, I have a very basic question which, for some reason, I've never asked before! I am truly a "Transitional Genealogist" and I'd like to know how to list where a child is born in the case of a hospital birth. Is it in city or town where the hospital is (or was) located or is it in the location where the mother lived at the time of the birth? It's clear in the case of home births, but in modern times, obviously, the hospitals are often not located in the same place as the residence of the parents. And the same with hospital deaths.which location is preferred? The hospital location or the residence. Thanks! Dave Robison The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 16:26:10 -0500 From: "Charles S. Mason, Jr." <cgrs791@netscape.com> Subject: Re: [TGF] "Born in" or "Lived in" To: "'Dave Robison'" <dave@oldbones.co>, <TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <1C4FB037BE9842109886419F18BF1A45@ChuckPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dave, You would list all events in the place where they actually took place. If the person was born at home then the location of the home would be listed. In they were born in a hospital then the hospital would be listed. This is very important if you are looking for sources to document this information. My three sisters all live in NJ and 8 of my 9 nephews and nieces were born in the same hospital in NJ. One niece was born in the Naval Hospital in Philadelphia because by the time she was born; my brother in-law was full time military. If I listed her birth place as the residence in NJ and someone was looking for her birth certificate would never find it because she was born in PA and that is where her birth certificate was issued. I have the same situation with my grandmother's death certificate. If I listed that she died at her residence in NJ someone looking for a death certificate in NJ would never find it. She was visiting my aunt in Montgomery Co., PA when she died and therefore her death certificate was issued by PA, not NJ. You also list the events in the location at the time they took place, not the current place name. For example: my third great grandfather purchase land in Gloucester County, NJ in 1824 and 1826. In 1837 Gloucester Co. was divided and Atlantic Co. was formed from the eastern portion of Gloucester Co. The land he purchase in 1824 and 1826 was in the eastern portion of Gloucester Co. When I list the land purchase I record the land being in Gloucester Co. After 1837 when the land was sold, I record the land being in Atlantic Co. The deeds for the purchase are recorded in Gloucester Co. and the deeds for the sales of the same land are recorded in Atlantic Co. Chuck Mason -----Original Message----- From: transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dave Robison Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 4:00 PM To: TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM@rootsweb.com Subject: [TGF] "Born in" or "Lived in" Although I've been researching my family and the families of others for a number of years, I have a very basic question which, for some reason, I've never asked before! I am truly a "Transitional Genealogist" and I'd like to know how to list where a child is born in the case of a hospital birth. Is it in city or town where the hospital is (or was) located or is it in the location where the mother lived at the time of the birth? It's clear in the case of home births, but in modern times, obviously, the hospitals are often not located in the same place as the residence of the parents. And the same with hospital deaths.which location is preferred? The hospital location or the residence. Thanks! Dave Robison The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 13:31:42 -0800 (PST) From: "cmproctor1@frontier.com" <cmproctor1@frontier.com> Subject: Re: [TGF] "Born in" or "Lived in" To: Dave Robison <dave@oldbones.co>, "TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM@rootsweb.com" <TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <1355347902.18663.YahooMailNeo@web161701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dave, I always list the physical location of the event.? If the birth or death was in a hospital, then I list the city or town the hospital was located in (or whatever facility the event happened in). ? The person's residence can yield clues to school enumerations or records, tax records, land records, census records, etc. ? But the birth?or death location is where it occurred. ? Cheryl Proctor Southern Indiana ________________________________ From: Dave Robison <dave@oldbones.co> To: TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 4:00 PM Subject: [TGF] "Born in" or "Lived in" Although I've been researching my family and the families of others for a number of years, I have a very basic question which, for some reason, I've never asked before!? I am truly a "Transitional Genealogist" and I'd like to know how to list where a child is born in the case of a hospital birth.? Is it in city or town where the hospital is (or was) located or is it in the location where the mother lived at the time of the birth?? It's clear in the case of home births, but in modern times, obviously, the hospitals are often not located in the same place as the residence of the parents.? And the same with hospital deaths.which location is preferred?? The hospital location or the residence. Thanks! Dave Robison The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 16:54:08 -0500 (EST) From: jfonkert@aol.com Subject: Re: [TGF] "Born in" or "Lived in" To: dave@oldbones.co, TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <8CFA6CA58BEA322-1AF0-14723@webmail-m062.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dave, Depends on purpose and context. Where a person was born can be different from where the family's residence was in the days, weeks or months after a birth. The birth registration should be in the jurisdiction in which the event occurred (not necessarily the same jurisdiction where the family lived); Another researcher needs to know where the birth record can be found. If, on the other hand, you are writing a family history, you probably want readers to know where the child lived after leaving the hospital. So, both locations are important. Jay Fonkert -----Original Message----- From: Dave Robison <dave@oldbones.co> To: TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM <TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wed, Dec 12, 2012 3:05 pm Subject: [TGF] "Born in" or "Lived in" Although I've been researching my family and the families of others for a number of years, I have a very basic question which, for some reason, I've never asked before! I am truly a "Transitional Genealogist" and I'd like to know how to list where a child is born in the case of a hospital birth. Is it in city or town where the hospital is (or was) located or is it in the location where the mother lived at the time of the birth? It's clear in the case of home births, but in modern times, obviously, the hospitals are often not located in the same place as the residence of the parents. And the same with hospital deaths.which location is preferred? The hospital location or the residence. Thanks! Dave Robison The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 13:57:52 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Munson <munsonfly@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [TGF] "Born in" or "Lived in" To: Dave Robison <dave@oldbones.co>, "TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM@rootsweb.com" <TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <1355349472.51387.YahooMailNeo@web162903.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dave, I list the birth and death with the actual town where the event took place.? I also include a separate entry with the same date as the birth and/or death, listed as RESIDENCE, and then list the home address with city & state.? That way I have all the information I actually need.? I know where to look for the birth or death certificate and where to look for employment, school, tax, or voting records. Barbara Munson ________________________________ From: Dave Robison <dave@oldbones.co> To: TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 3:00 PM Subject: [TGF] "Born in" or "Lived in" Although I've been researching my family and the families of others for a number of years, I have a very basic question which, for some reason, I've never asked before!? I am truly a "Transitional Genealogist" and I'd like to know how to list where a child is born in the case of a hospital birth.? Is it in city or town where the hospital is (or was) located or is it in the location where the mother lived at the time of the birth?? It's clear in the case of home births, but in modern times, obviously, the hospitals are often not located in the same place as the residence of the parents.? And the same with hospital deaths.which location is preferred?? The hospital location or the residence. Thanks! Dave Robison The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 15:02:29 -0800 From: Dave Liesse <Dave@skingcoservicesllc.com> Subject: Re: [TGF] "Born in" or "Lived in" To: transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <50C90D05.7020405@skingcoservicesllc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed As others have all said, record the event in its actual location. This is all the more important when it takes place in a different county from the family's residence, as the county of birth is where the records will be filed. Two examples: 1. Although we lived in Downers Grove, DuPage County, Illinois, my brother and I were both born in La Grange, Cook County, Illinois (Downers Grove didn't have a hospital at the time). 2. My wife and I lived in South San Francisco, San Mateo County, California, but our son was born in Stanford, Santa Clara County, California (and the whole world knew it -- he literally was being born when the Loma Prieta earthquake hit!). Of course, there's nothing wrong with recording the family's residence separately! Most software allows this as a data point. Dave Liesse Skingco Services, LLC On 12/12/2012 13:00, Dave Robison wrote: > Although I've been researching my family and the families of others > for a number of years, I have a very basic question which, for some > reason, I've never asked before! I am truly a "Transitional > Genealogist" and I'd like to know how to list where a child is born in > the case of a hospital birth. Is it in city or town where the > hospital is (or was) located or is it in the location where the mother > lived at the time of the birth? It's clear in the case of home > births, but in modern times, obviously, the hospitals are often not > located in the same place as the residence of the parents. And the > same with hospital deaths.which location is preferred? The hospital location or the residence. > > > > Thanks! > > Dave Robison > > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > ------------------------------ End of TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM Digest, Vol 6, Issue 653 ***************************************************************

Just a couple of points about births and locations and the records thereof. In former times it was not unusual for a first child, or second and third, to be born in grandma's house on the farm. You might have seen the phrase "and she called her women" as a way of saying a woman was in labor. Hospitals were often considered unhealthy places. Besides, who would you want with you at such a momentous time? A stranger doctor and nurse? Or your mother and aunts and sisters, who had had experience in childbirth and, like my own grandmother, had served as a lying-in nurse and perhaps a midwife in upstate (really upstate, not just Yonkers) New York. In this case, you might look for a baptismal record in the grandparents' home church. Another point is that a birth is a command performance of only two people, the mama and the baby. All it tells in geographic terms is that the mother was in that location at that moment. In New York State, a birth, marriage or death is recorded in the smallest jurisdiction in which it occurred, regardless of the residence address. For example, if I went to Crossgates Mall in the next county and shopped until I dropped, my death would be recorded as happening in Guilderland, the location. Nancy in upstate New York <g>

Dave, Depends on purpose and context. Where a person was born can be different from where the family's residence was in the days, weeks or months after a birth. The birth registration should be in the jurisdiction in which the event occurred (not necessarily the same jurisdiction where the family lived); Another researcher needs to know where the birth record can be found. If, on the other hand, you are writing a family history, you probably want readers to know where the child lived after leaving the hospital. So, both locations are important. Jay Fonkert -----Original Message----- From: Dave Robison <dave@oldbones.co> To: TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM <TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wed, Dec 12, 2012 3:05 pm Subject: [TGF] "Born in" or "Lived in" Although I've been researching my family and the families of others for a number of years, I have a very basic question which, for some reason, I've never asked before! I am truly a "Transitional Genealogist" and I'd like to know how to list where a child is born in the case of a hospital birth. Is it in city or town where the hospital is (or was) located or is it in the location where the mother lived at the time of the birth? It's clear in the case of home births, but in modern times, obviously, the hospitals are often not located in the same place as the residence of the parents. And the same with hospital deaths.which location is preferred? The hospital location or the residence. Thanks! Dave Robison The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dave, You would list all events in the place where they actually took place. If the person was born at home then the location of the home would be listed. In they were born in a hospital then the hospital would be listed. This is very important if you are looking for sources to document this information. My three sisters all live in NJ and 8 of my 9 nephews and nieces were born in the same hospital in NJ. One niece was born in the Naval Hospital in Philadelphia because by the time she was born; my brother in-law was full time military. If I listed her birth place as the residence in NJ and someone was looking for her birth certificate would never find it because she was born in PA and that is where her birth certificate was issued. I have the same situation with my grandmother's death certificate. If I listed that she died at her residence in NJ someone looking for a death certificate in NJ would never find it. She was visiting my aunt in Montgomery Co., PA when she died and therefore her death certificate was issued by PA, not NJ. You also list the events in the location at the time they took place, not the current place name. For example: my third great grandfather purchase land in Gloucester County, NJ in 1824 and 1826. In 1837 Gloucester Co. was divided and Atlantic Co. was formed from the eastern portion of Gloucester Co. The land he purchase in 1824 and 1826 was in the eastern portion of Gloucester Co. When I list the land purchase I record the land being in Gloucester Co. After 1837 when the land was sold, I record the land being in Atlantic Co. The deeds for the purchase are recorded in Gloucester Co. and the deeds for the sales of the same land are recorded in Atlantic Co. Chuck Mason -----Original Message----- From: transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dave Robison Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 4:00 PM To: TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM@rootsweb.com Subject: [TGF] "Born in" or "Lived in" Although I've been researching my family and the families of others for a number of years, I have a very basic question which, for some reason, I've never asked before! I am truly a "Transitional Genealogist" and I'd like to know how to list where a child is born in the case of a hospital birth. Is it in city or town where the hospital is (or was) located or is it in the location where the mother lived at the time of the birth? It's clear in the case of home births, but in modern times, obviously, the hospitals are often not located in the same place as the residence of the parents. And the same with hospital deaths.which location is preferred? The hospital location or the residence. Thanks! Dave Robison The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Although I've been researching my family and the families of others for a number of years, I have a very basic question which, for some reason, I've never asked before! I am truly a "Transitional Genealogist" and I'd like to know how to list where a child is born in the case of a hospital birth. Is it in city or town where the hospital is (or was) located or is it in the location where the mother lived at the time of the birth? It's clear in the case of home births, but in modern times, obviously, the hospitals are often not located in the same place as the residence of the parents. And the same with hospital deaths.which location is preferred? The hospital location or the residence. Thanks! Dave Robison

As others have all said, record the event in its actual location. This is all the more important when it takes place in a different county from the family's residence, as the county of birth is where the records will be filed. Two examples: 1. Although we lived in Downers Grove, DuPage County, Illinois, my brother and I were both born in La Grange, Cook County, Illinois (Downers Grove didn't have a hospital at the time). 2. My wife and I lived in South San Francisco, San Mateo County, California, but our son was born in Stanford, Santa Clara County, California (and the whole world knew it -- he literally was being born when the Loma Prieta earthquake hit!). Of course, there's nothing wrong with recording the family's residence separately! Most software allows this as a data point. Dave Liesse Skingco Services, LLC On 12/12/2012 13:00, Dave Robison wrote: > Although I've been researching my family and the families of others for a > number of years, I have a very basic question which, for some reason, I've > never asked before! I am truly a "Transitional Genealogist" and I'd like to > know how to list where a child is born in the case of a hospital birth. Is > it in city or town where the hospital is (or was) located or is it in the > location where the mother lived at the time of the birth? It's clear in the > case of home births, but in modern times, obviously, the hospitals are often > not located in the same place as the residence of the parents. And the same > with hospital deaths.which location is preferred? The hospital location or > the residence. > > > > Thanks! > > Dave Robison > > The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Dave As the purpose of genealogy is to report the facts as accurately as possible, I vote for the actual place of birth, just as I would with a hospital death many miles from a person's residence (pretty common, I've found), or for that matter, a marriage "across the state line." For examples, my siblings and I were all born in a hospital in Medford, Oregon but lived, at the time, in a logging community (Kinzua) in eastern Oregon, while my grandparents lived near Jacksonville, just outside Medford. All the birth certificates say, "Medford." When asked, I say "Medford." My mother and father would travel across the state for the birth, then (after the requisite two weeks of in-hospital -- boy, were those the days -- travel back to eastern Oregon. A question I never thought to ask was if my father spent the entire time with us, or whether he brought mother, went back to work, and later came and got her. I suspect the latter. My grandparents, still living outside Jacksonville, Oregon, came to Flagstaff for the Christmas of 1959. Grandfather never made it home, dying in Flagstaff hospital. His death certificate reads Flagstaff, not Jacksonville. I would, however, put a note in the file "while on vacation to..." or words that effect, to prevent a future researcher from jumping to the wrong conclusion about where other records might be. Pat Dunford Tucson -----Original Message----- From: transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dave Robison Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 2:00 PM To: TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM@rootsweb.com Subject: [TGF] "Born in" or "Lived in" Although I've been researching my family and the families of others for a number of years, I have a very basic question which, for some reason, I've never asked before! I am truly a "Transitional Genealogist" and I'd like to know how to list where a child is born in the case of a hospital birth. Is it in city or town where the hospital is (or was) located or is it in the location where the mother lived at the time of the birth? It's clear in the case of home births, but in modern times, obviously, the hospitals are often not located in the same place as the residence of the parents. And the same with hospital deaths.which location is preferred? The hospital location or the residence. Thanks! Dave Robison The Transitional Genealogists List was created to provide a supportive environment for genealogists to learn best practices as they transition to professional level work. Please respect the kind intentions of this list. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TRANSITIONAL-GENEALOGISTS-FORUM-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message