Greg -- That's my understanding. -- Harold Harold Henderson, CG midwestroots.net *Finding Ancestors in Fort Wayne: The Genealogist's Unofficial One-Stop Guide to the Allen County Public Library Genealogy Center * http://www.midwestroots.net/ <http://www.midwestroots.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/ACPLGC-April-2013.pdf> Certified Genealogist (SM) No. 1029 Certified Genealogist and CG are proprietary service marks of the Board for Certification of Genealogists® used by the Board to identify its program of genealogical competency evaluation and used under license by the Board’s associates. On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Greg Lovelace via < [email protected]> wrote: > All, > > > > I would like someone to confirm my logic on an 1820 census item. > > The age ranges for free white males include one column for 16-18, and one > column for 16 and under 26. > > Assume there is one male listed in the 16-18 and only one male listed in > the > 16-26. That means there is only one male between 16 and 25, and he is also > the same one listed as between 16 and 18. Correct? > > Assume there is one male listed in the 16-26 column, and no male listed in > the 16-18 column. That means that the one male 16-26 is actually between > 18 > and 26. Correct? > > > > Duhhh. this stuff is driving me nuts. > > > > Peace, > > Part of the Tree, > > Greg > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Did you order the probate file? My experience has been that some document within the file, if not the d/c itself, gives the death date, or the date declared deceased if the actual date was not known. Dee > On December 10, 2014 at 3:35 PM Eva Goodwin via > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Thanks so much for all the responses. My guess is that she never had a > SSN--she was not born in the US and though her husband naturalized and did > apply for social security, she may never have needed to. I did search for > her with many different name variations. She does have a probate file in > Chicago, but I was trying to find a date of death so that I could request > the death certificate by mail. The SSDI is so handy for that! (I live in > California so it's not something I can investigate in person.) > > > On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 8:07 AM, Genealogy Guide via < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > In response to the "why no listing in the SSDI" part of Eva's question, > > not all U.S. citizens have Social Security numbers, even today. Laws for > > registration and collection have changed over the years. Some categories of > > workers used to be exempt. Some who have never been employed might not have > > had reason for an SSN. This includes my aged mentally ill uncle who died in > > 2012. > > Charlene M. Pipkin, Accredited Genealogist® > > The ICAPGenSM service mark and the Accredited Genealogist® and AG® > > certification marks are > > the sole property of the International Commission for the Accreditation of > > Professional Genealogists. All Rights Reserved. > > > > On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 6:57 PM, Eva Goodwin via < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > A question for the hive-mind: > > > > Aside from the possibility that an individual was out of the country at the > > time of death, is there any reason why a U.S. resident who died in 2009 > > would not have a death certificate or be in the Social Security death > > index? > > > > Thanks for sharing thoughts! > > Eva > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Dee Dee King, Certified Genealogist (sm), Certificate 903 Contract Genealogist, US Navy POW/MIA Branch Mail address - PO Box 1085, Manvel TX 77578 Telephone/fax 281-595-3090 www.forensicgenealogyservices.com www.facebook.com/forensicgenealogist Certified Genealogist (CG) is a service mark (sm) of the Board for Certification of Genealogists®, conferred to associates who consistently meet ethical and competency standards in accord with peer-reviewed evaluations every five years, and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office.

In response to the "why no listing in the SSDI" part of Eva's question, not all U.S. citizens have Social Security numbers, even today. Laws for registration and collection have changed over the years. Some categories of workers used to be exempt. Some who have never been employed might not have had reason for an SSN. This includes my aged mentally ill uncle who died in 2012.  Charlene M. Pipkin, Accredited Genealogist® The ICAPGenSM service mark and the Accredited Genealogist® and AG® certification marks are the sole property of the International Commission for the Accreditation of Professional Genealogists. All Rights Reserved. On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 6:57 PM, Eva Goodwin via <[email protected]> wrote: A question for the hive-mind: Aside from the possibility that an individual was out of the country at the time of death, is there any reason why a U.S. resident who died in 2009 would not have a death certificate or be in the Social Security death index? Thanks for sharing thoughts! Eva ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks again for the additional suggestions. I'd already located this woman's probate case file number on the Cook County Clerk of Court website -- it lists the heirs on the docket and everything. I have in the past been able to order probate files directly from the court, but this particular case is time-sensitive and so I would rather have someone go in person. My experience has been that especially with big cities, processing record requests can take some weeks. But Dee - that is a good idea to call the court and ask for only pages that provide the needed information. I certainly don't need the entire file in this particular case, especially since the docket is available online and lists the claimants. Also: several people have suggested cookcountygenealogy.com - it's a great resource and I have used it for other records in this case, but unfortunately recent deaths are not available on the site! Pat: I just ran the search by her husband's SSN -- very interesting idea! I tried that quickly with a few different versions of the SSDI index and had no luck, but I will tuck that in my brain's filing cabinet for the future. Thanks all, Eva On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Ann L. Wells <[email protected]> wrote: > You can look at the online index for Cook County - > http://www.cookcountyclerkofcourt.org/?section=CASEINFOPage&CASEINFOPage=4210 > > Give the office a call after finding the right file and order. Be careful > on what you order copies of or it could be oodles of pages. Affidavit of > death/record, letters of administration and list of heirs from start to > finish. In Illinois the first page is $2.50, then it is 50c per page up to > 25 copies (can't quite remember # here), then 25c per page after that > amount. > > > > Ann L. Wells > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Eva Goodwin via <[email protected]> > *To:* Genealogy Guide <[email protected]> > *Cc:* TGF <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 10, 2014 3:35 PM > *Subject:* Re: [TGF] death certificates > > Thanks so much for all the responses. My guess is that she never had a > SSN--she was not born in the US and though her husband naturalized and did > apply for social security, she may never have needed to. I did search for > her with many different name variations. She does have a probate file in > Chicago, but I was trying to find a date of death so that I could request > the death certificate by mail. The SSDI is so handy for that! (I live in > California so it's not something I can investigate in person.) > > > On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 8:07 AM, Genealogy Guide via < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > In response to the "why no listing in the SSDI" part of Eva's question, > > not all U.S. citizens have Social Security numbers, even today. Laws for > > registration and collection have changed over the years. Some categories > of > > workers used to be exempt. Some who have never been employed might not > have > > had reason for an SSN. This includes my aged mentally ill uncle who died > in > > 2012. > > Charlene M. Pipkin, Accredited Genealogist® > > The ICAPGenSM service mark and the Accredited Genealogist® and AG® > > certification marks are > > the sole property of the International Commission for the Accreditation > of > > Professional Genealogists. All Rights Reserved. > > > > On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 6:57 PM, Eva Goodwin via < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > A question for the hive-mind: > > > > Aside from the possibility that an individual was out of the country at > the > > time of death, is there any reason why a U.S. resident who died in 2009 > > would not have a death certificate or be in the Social Security death > > index? > > > > Thanks for sharing thoughts! > > Eva > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Eva If her husband had an SSN and received benefits she may have received benefits on his behalf, and, as I recall, sometimes women's SSNs changed to their husbands in that case, or they never had one. IF by any chance you have her husband's number, you might try inputting that in a search rather than the name and see if you get something. Here's a related story: http://articles.latimes.com/2002/dec/22/business/fi-montalk22 Pat Dunford -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eva Goodwin via Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 2:36 PM To: Genealogy Guide Cc: TGF Subject: Re: [TGF] death certificates Thanks so much for all the responses. My guess is that she never had a SSN--she was not born in the US and though her husband naturalized and did apply for social security, she may never have needed to. I did search for her with many different name variations. She does have a probate file in Chicago, but I was trying to find a date of death so that I could request the death certificate by mail. The SSDI is so handy for that! (I live in California so it's not something I can investigate in person.) On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 8:07 AM, Genealogy Guide via < [email protected]> wrote: > In response to the "why no listing in the SSDI" part of Eva's > question, not all U.S. citizens have Social Security numbers, even > today. Laws for registration and collection have changed over the > years. Some categories of workers used to be exempt. Some who have > never been employed might not have had reason for an SSN. This > includes my aged mentally ill uncle who died in 2012. > Charlene M. Pipkin, Accredited Genealogist® The ICAPGenSM service mark > and the Accredited Genealogist® and AG® certification marks are the > sole property of the International Commission for the Accreditation of > Professional Genealogists. All Rights Reserved. > > On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 6:57 PM, Eva Goodwin via < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > A question for the hive-mind: > > Aside from the possibility that an individual was out of the country > at the time of death, is there any reason why a U.S. resident who died > in 2009 would not have a death certificate or be in the Social > Security death index? > > Thanks for sharing thoughts! > Eva > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dee, I haven't yet - I'll have to hire someone in Chicago to do that. That's my next step. On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 2:08 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Did you order the probate file? My experience has been that some document > within > the file, if not the d/c itself, gives the death date, or the date declared > deceased if the actual date was not known. > > Dee > > > > On December 10, 2014 at 3:35 PM Eva Goodwin via > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks so much for all the responses. My guess is that she never had a > > SSN--she was not born in the US and though her husband naturalized and > did > > apply for social security, she may never have needed to. I did search for > > her with many different name variations. She does have a probate file in > > Chicago, but I was trying to find a date of death so that I could request > > the death certificate by mail. The SSDI is so handy for that! (I live in > > California so it's not something I can investigate in person.) > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 8:07 AM, Genealogy Guide via < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > In response to the "why no listing in the SSDI" part of Eva's question, > > > not all U.S. citizens have Social Security numbers, even today. Laws > for > > > registration and collection have changed over the years. Some > categories of > > > workers used to be exempt. Some who have never been employed might not > have > > > had reason for an SSN. This includes my aged mentally ill uncle who > died in > > > 2012. > > > Charlene M. Pipkin, Accredited Genealogist® > > > The ICAPGenSM service mark and the Accredited Genealogist® and AG® > > > certification marks are > > > the sole property of the International Commission for the > Accreditation of > > > Professional Genealogists. All Rights Reserved. > > > > > > On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 6:57 PM, Eva Goodwin via < > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > A question for the hive-mind: > > > > > > Aside from the possibility that an individual was out of the country > at the > > > time of death, is there any reason why a U.S. resident who died in 2009 > > > would not have a death certificate or be in the Social Security death > > > index? > > > > > > Thanks for sharing thoughts! > > > Eva > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word > > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word > > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > -- > Dee Dee King, Certified Genealogist (sm), Certificate 903 > Contract Genealogist, US Navy POW/MIA Branch > > Mail address - PO Box 1085, Manvel TX 77578 > Telephone/fax 281-595-3090 > www.forensicgenealogyservices.com www.facebook.com/forensicgenealogist > > Certified Genealogist (CG) is a service mark (sm) of the Board for > Certification > of Genealogists®, conferred to > associates who consistently meet ethical and competency standards in > accord with > peer-reviewed evaluations every > five years, and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark > Office. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks so much for all the responses. My guess is that she never had a SSN--she was not born in the US and though her husband naturalized and did apply for social security, she may never have needed to. I did search for her with many different name variations. She does have a probate file in Chicago, but I was trying to find a date of death so that I could request the death certificate by mail. The SSDI is so handy for that! (I live in California so it's not something I can investigate in person.) On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 8:07 AM, Genealogy Guide via < [email protected]> wrote: > In response to the "why no listing in the SSDI" part of Eva's question, > not all U.S. citizens have Social Security numbers, even today. Laws for > registration and collection have changed over the years. Some categories of > workers used to be exempt. Some who have never been employed might not have > had reason for an SSN. This includes my aged mentally ill uncle who died in > 2012. > Charlene M. Pipkin, Accredited Genealogist® > The ICAPGenSM service mark and the Accredited Genealogist® and AG® > certification marks are > the sole property of the International Commission for the Accreditation of > Professional Genealogists. All Rights Reserved. > > On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 6:57 PM, Eva Goodwin via < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > A question for the hive-mind: > > Aside from the possibility that an individual was out of the country at the > time of death, is there any reason why a U.S. resident who died in 2009 > would not have a death certificate or be in the Social Security death > index? > > Thanks for sharing thoughts! > Eva > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The Railroad Retirement System is also a federal program. Many people when starting their working lives received a RR ID number instead of a Social Security number and do not appear in the SSDI. A friend worked for Union Pacific Railroad's Sun Valley, Idaho, ski resort in the late 1930s and early 1940s. She worked many more years in jobs covered under Social Security, but her ID # was not converted. Likewise another friend started working in the early 1950s for the Great Northern Railway in Seattle. Later he worked on jobs covered under Social Security, but his number was not converted. Neither of them is in the SSDI. --Ida Skarson McCormick, [email protected], Seattle

“I’m a big proponent of my nieces and nephews being able to name their ‘eight greats,’ and I’ve been impressed with how early they start to understand how a family fits together." Welcome newly board-certified genealogist and BCG associate Sherry Lindsay, profiled at http://bcgcertification.org/blog/2014/12/sherry-lindsay-cg/ by Judy Kellar Fox. Harold Henderson, CG midwestroots.net *Finding Ancestors in Fort Wayne: The Genealogist's Unofficial One-Stop Guide to the Allen County Public Library Genealogy Center * http://www.midwestroots.net/ <http://www.midwestroots.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/ACPLGC-April-2013.pdf> Certified Genealogist (SM) No. 1029 Certified Genealogist and CG are proprietary service marks of the Board for Certification of Genealogists® used by the Board to identify its program of genealogical competency evaluation and used under license by the Board’s associates.

Not everyone needs to be in the SSDI. Only if the heirs or funeral home applied for the death benefit would they appear. Did you check all 50 states? (I say in half-jest.) Just because they don't have a death certificate in the state you expect them in doesn't mean they didn't die elsewhere. I just read an LA Times article about a man who was a train buff and left his Seattle home to take a cross-country train ride. Went to Chicago then New Orleans and then to LA. While boarding there, he had a massive heart attack and died. His son could not afford to bring his cremains home and so he will be buried in a mass grave in LA this week. His death certificate is in California although he lived in Washington and his son was in Idaho. -- Elissa Elissa Scalise Powell, CG , CGL www.PowellGenealogy.com www.GRIPitt.org 28 June-3 July 2015 and 19-24 July 2015 in Pittsburgh, PA CG, Certified Genealogist, CGL, and Certified Genealogical Lecturer are service marks of the Board for Certification of Genealogists, used under license by board certificants after periodic evaluations. The board name is a trademark registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eva Goodwin via Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2014 8:36 PM To: TGF Subject: [TGF] death certificates A question for the hive-mind: Aside from the possibility that an individual was out of the country at the time of death, is there any reason why a U.S. resident who died in 2009 would not have a death certificate or be in the Social Security death index? Thanks for sharing thoughts! Eva ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Additionally, he may have lived/died in one of the states that no longer reports death indexes to SSA. The entry could be by initials or some other variant of the name, there could be a typo in the data entry. The person may be in the SSDI, just not as we would expect. d -- Dee Dee King, Certified Genealogist (sm), Certificate 903 Contract Genealogist, US Navy POW/MIA Branch Mail address - PO Box 1085, Manvel TX 77578 Telephone/fax 281-595-3090 www.forensicgenealogyservices.com www.facebook.com/forensicgenealogist Certified Genealogist (CG) is a service mark (sm) of the Board for Certification of Genealogists®, conferred to associates who consistently meet ethical and competency standards in accord with peer-reviewed evaluations every five years, and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office.

Eva - what was the person's name, and where do you think he/she died? Claudia Breland Gig Harbor, WA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Eva Goodwin via Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2014 5:36 PM To: TGF Subject: [TGF] death certificates A question for the hive-mind: Aside from the possibility that an individual was out of the country at the time of death, is there any reason why a U.S. resident who died in 2009 would not have a death certificate or be in the Social Security death index? Thanks for sharing thoughts! Eva ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A question for the hive-mind: Aside from the possibility that an individual was out of the country at the time of death, is there any reason why a U.S. resident who died in 2009 would not have a death certificate or be in the Social Security death index? Thanks for sharing thoughts! Eva

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Thanks to all who responded. I received several great places to look. Some of which I have already read. Some I will need to locate. What I am trying to get a "handle on" is the who and how an emigrant would interact with the business side to better understand what an emigrant might chose for their passage and what obstacles they might have encountered. This is what I have been able to piece together and am wondering if I have interpreted the information correctly. For example. How where the shipping lines organized? I have discovered that there were basically two types of shipping lines: Manufactures' lines and Commercial lines. The manufactures' lines were lines that where owned and operated by the ship builders. They sometimes had agents employed directly and sometimes the Captain or owner would contract with an agent or a shipping firm known as shipping houses. Commercial lines either purchased ships from a ship builder or contracted with the owner or Captain of a ship. Until about 1848 the lines went in both directions across the Atlantic. In 1848 a New York businessman started a "one way line." When you are reading information about the shipping business several terms pop up. For example: The term runner. In most of the articles about emigration from Liverpool they focus on Irish emigrants. Runners are portrayed as con men. However there appears to be two types of runners. Those out to con emigrants and those that actually worked for shipping houses. Shipping houses seem to be a sort of middle man between individual emigrants or other businessmen who would book groups of emigrants for passage. For example a German businessman who was a Commission Merchant in London had an emigration business in Liverpool. His business was referred to as a "line." However, he did not own any ships nor would he contract directly with a ships owner or Captain, but would only work with a few "houses" in Liverpool because of there reliability. Today if I wanted to book passage to say England on a ship I might go through a travel agent or directly with the cruise line. The process in the 19th century appears to be more complex with multiple layers that an emigrant might have encountered. Ann In a message dated 05-Dec-14 15:25:33 Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: On 12/5/2014 1:47 PM, AGilchrest via wrote: > Hello, > > I am wondering if anyone knows of a source that gives a brief description > of the Emigration business. Specifically in the 1850's time frame. I am > looking for the structure of the business, the players if you will. > > Thank you, > Ann Gilchrest > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

LeRoy -- If the second page has its own number, I would say line 19. But it might be wise to give yourself some elbow room in the citation and explain that the name Vergennes appears only on what seems to be the previous page. If you are feeling a bit uncertain, you can consult the original microfilm at the Internet Archive: https://archive.org/stream/populationsc18000051unit#page/n15/mode/2up Good luck! Harold Harold Henderson, CG midwestroots.net *Finding Ancestors in Fort Wayne: The Genealogist's Unofficial One-Stop Guide to the Allen County Public Library Genealogy Center * http://www.midwestroots.net/ <http://www.midwestroots.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/ACPLGC-April-2013.pdf> Certified Genealogist (SM) No. 1029 Certified Genealogist and CG are proprietary service marks of the Board for Certification of Genealogists® used by the Board to identify its program of genealogical competency evaluation and used under license by the Board’s associates. On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 5:42 PM, LeRoy Atkins via < [email protected]> wrote: > I am viewing an image of an 1800 U.S. population schedule at Ancestry.com. > A > single image appears to have an space indicating two pages are displayed > with a single camera shot. Three towns are listed, 1st Hancock with 11 > heads > of households listed; 2nd Goshen with 1 person listed; on the same sheet 6 > names in Vergennes. The the person I am citing is 19 lines down on > apparently the next sheet, also in Vergennes. > > Hancock 11 lines > Goshen 1 lines > Vergennes 6 lines > Vergennes 19 lines to get to the one Eli is on > > Do I cite him, Eli Roberts II [2nd], as on line 19, 25, or 37? > > LeRoy > > I hope it is not necessary to look at the page. However it is in Addison > County, Vermont. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Harold, Interesting. I failed to look closely enough at the page numbers in the lower right. Apparently the indexer did not do so either. It is clear to me they are separate pages. Thank you for the link. The images look the same. But your link gave me another perspective. LeRoy LeRoy -- If the second page has its own number, I would say line 19. But it might be wise to give yourself some elbow room in the citation and explain that the name Vergennes appears only on what seems to be the previous page. If you are feeling a bit uncertain, you can consult the original microfilm at the Internet Archive: https://archive.org/stream/populationsc18000051unit#page/n15/mode/2up Good luck! Harold Harold Henderson, CG midwestroots.net Finding Ancestors in Fort Wayne: The Genealogist's Unofficial One-Stop Guide to the Allen County Public Library Genealogy Center http://www.midwestroots.net/ Certified Genealogist (SM) No. 1029 Certified Genealogist and CG are proprietary service marks of the Board for Certification of Genealogists® used by the Board to identify its program of genealogical competency evaluation and used under license by the Board’s associates. On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 5:42 PM, LeRoy Atkins via <[email protected]> wrote: I am viewing an image of an 1800 U.S. population schedule at Ancestry.com. A single image appears to have an space indicating two pages are displayed with a single camera shot. Three towns are listed, 1st Hancock with 11 heads of households listed; 2nd Goshen with 1 person listed; on the same sheet 6 names in Vergennes. The the person I am citing is 19 lines down on apparently the next sheet, also in Vergennes. Hancock 11 lines Goshen 1 lines Vergennes 6 lines Vergennes 19 lines to get to the one Eli is on Do I cite him, Eli Roberts II [2nd], as on line 19, 25, or 37? LeRoy I hope it is not necessary to look at the page. However it is in Addison County, Vermont. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ann, You might find a copy of Raymond L. Cohn's book _Mass Migration Under Sail: European Immigration to the Antebellum United States_ (Cambridge University Press, 2009). While it may not address your question specifically it does look at the economics of emigration and immigration, and has an extensive bibliography. Also, look at the shipping or maritime new sections of newspapers of the era. In addition to listing ship arrivals and departures, and sometimes particular passengers, these sections of the paper often contain advertisements for the shipping lines and agents, remittance and passage agents, etc. all involved in the business. Best wishes, Leon Zimlich [email protected] On 12/5/2014 1:47 PM, AGilchrest via wrote: > Hello, > > I am wondering if anyone knows of a source that gives a brief description > of the Emigration business. Specifically in the 1850's time frame. I am > looking for the structure of the business, the players if you will. > > Thank you, > Ann Gilchrest > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

I am viewing an image of an 1800 U.S. population schedule at Ancestry.com. A single image appears to have an space indicating two pages are displayed with a single camera shot. Three towns are listed, 1st Hancock with 11 heads of households listed; 2nd Goshen with 1 person listed; on the same sheet 6 names in Vergennes. The the person I am citing is 19 lines down on apparently the next sheet, also in Vergennes. Hancock 11 lines Goshen 1 lines Vergennes 6 lines Vergennes 19 lines to get to the one Eli is on Do I cite him, Eli Roberts II [2nd], as on line 19, 25, or 37? LeRoy I hope it is not necessary to look at the page. However it is in Addison County, Vermont.

Membership to FindMyPast may not be necessary to search PERSI, but it is necessary to see the exact results of that search. Unless I'm doing something wrong, all you get are the article title, the publication, and the year (but not the author, the exact issue, or the page numbers). Nothing against FMP, but I wish PERSI was still available on Ancestry, where I had used it for years. I subscribe to Ancestry because it is vital for my US-based research, but FMP is not so I do not subscribe. I am very excited about the direction that FMP has decided to take PERSI, but that alone is not worth the price of an annual subscription. Unfortunately this means that I no longer have access to PERSI in any functional way either. More to the point of this thread, I have often used the queries sections of local genealogical society publications in projects. For older publications, I have even found queries placed by researchers who are now often the subjects of research by their own descendants (or descendants of their siblings). Michael Hait, CG(sm) [email protected] http://www.haitfamilyresearch.com Author of *Online State Resources for Genealogy* ebook More information at http://haitfamilyresearch.com/onlineStates.htm CG and Certified Genealogist are service marks of the Board for Certification of Genealogists, used under license by board certificants after periodic competency evaluation, and the board name is registered in the US Patent & Trademark Office. -----Original Message----- From: Harold Henderson via Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 11:35 AM To: Connie Sheets Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TGF] Old Genealogical Newsletters and Queries Connie -- Yoicks! I'm confident that Fort Wayne would not de-accession such titles for such reasons. The best way to check for particular items is to visit http://search.findmypast.com/search/periodical-source-index (membership is not required to search the PERSI database). Harold Harold Henderson, CG midwestroots.net *Finding Ancestors in Fort Wayne: The Genealogist's Unofficial One-Stop Guide to the Allen County Public Library Genealogy Center * http://www.midwestroots.net/ <http://www.midwestroots.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/ACPLGC-April-2013.pdf> Certified Genealogist (SM) No. 1029 Certified Genealogist and CG are proprietary service marks of the Board for Certification of Genealogists® used by the Board to identify its program of genealogical competency evaluation and used under license by the Board’s associates. On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 10:28 AM, Connie Sheets via < [email protected]> wrote: > I appreciate the responses I have received publicly and privately. > Subsequent to my post, I happened across Tom Jones "Perils of Source > Snobbery" article from OnBoard (May, 2012). Although his article does > not mention old queries except in a footnote, it eloquently makes the > point I had in mind. > > It seems to me that old queries are the abbreviated "online family trees" > of a bygone era, and may be the only surviving record of a deceased > genealogist's work (or personal knowledge of family). I've found some > queries to be detailed, and even if they are not, they have given me > clues, > especially about members of a "FAN" club, that I otherwise might not have > had. They have also helped me date or track down possible origins for > "rumors" or "clues" found in online trees. While reading unindexed > locality-based newsletter queries may not be the most efficient use of > research time, I do periodically browse through them for familiar surnames > and the information they contain, even if I am no longer able to contact > the writer or his/her family. > > If anyone has specific examples of the use of queries and similar > "disdained sources" in addition to those mentioned in footnotes 4 and 5 of > Tom's article, I would like to hear about them. Perhaps I am overreacting > to finding out that more than 300 titles were recently deaccessioned > (thrown in the trash) from a collection because "what good are old > queries; > they are so old the people who wrote them are dead." Hopefully, the lost > publications are in Fort Wayne and I'll just have to travel farther to do > my browsing. I may have a new mission in life to try to educate others > about the value of "disdained sources." > > Connie Sheets > Phoenix, AZ > > > > I am interested in hearing whether and how you have used queries from > old genealogical publications such as newsletters, and if so whether you > found them to be valuable? If yes, why were they valuable? Can you give > some examples of how they helped? > > > > On a wider but related note, should old society newsletters be archived > or thrown in the trash? If your society or library keeps some but not all > such publications, what criteria do you use for deciding what to keep and > what to dispose of? > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message