Carol, this was from another line but lots of DNA comments explaining their interpretation. I found it interesting. By the way, just recently received some exciting news. This should be of interest for all of you on the Overton List Serve, not because of the specifics, but because of the implications of the value of DNA surname projects. DNA shows our line descending from the Crawfurd Ardmillan Cadet in Scotland with only three mutations between my brother and another member of our surname (Raymond) who has well documented descent from that line. This suggests a common ancestor (CA) within 300-400 years. We were quite easily able to identify a possible common ancestor in James Crawfurd of Ardmillan, who had one son that immigrated to England (Raymond's ancestor) and several that immigrated to No. Ireland in the late 1600s (most likely including ours). So basically we now can focus our search on Northern Ireland Crawfords. Currently I am trying to find out name of sons that went to Ireland, and county/ies they settled in. This narrows our search from among many thousands, to a few specific individuals. In addition, as the number of participants grow in the surname Y-DNA project, we have a greater chance of connecting our descent with others of the surname in the region of the country that the previous generation to the earliest identified ancestor (EIA) might have come from. So far, we have not found any Crawfords here in the US with only one or two mutation differences. When we do -- it is only a matter of time -- we will be able to work productively towards filling in the five or six lost generations between the EIA (Edward) and the hypothetically (pretty reliably estimated) CA (James of Ardmillan). What DNA does in particular is narrow the search so that you can focus document research in certain specific geographic localities, and thus considerably reducing territory to be covered. Recommend you join projects for your surname if you haven't already. Provides clues that will help breech that brick wall that may have brought you to a standstill in terms of tracing your ancestry back across the Atlantic, especially complicated when it goes through Northern Ireland. Permits a focus on origins and tracing the line forward that is often limited to bridging a gap over a few generations (in our case, only about five or six). We are then home free to connect with the historical genealogy of our cadet and surname, which may not be perfectly accurate but has been extensively researched and is fairly reliable back to the advent of surnames and sometimes beyond. <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

Would like to add an amen to the recommendation for joining a DNA project for your surname. I was able to confirm my line back to a GGGGG GF who died in Brunswick Co, VA in 1777with exact matches with others from whose line went back to my ancestors siblings. Even better, I was able to identify two individuals with close matches (35 of 37, and 36 of 37) whose oldest known ancestors were from adjacent counties in Virginia and we are now working to identify who our common ancestor(s) are. By the way. In working Surry County, VA for the 1600's and 1700's, the Craffords were prominent there. In some documents it is spelled Crawford. The following is from one researcher I spotted : [One very informative piece of information, found in "Americans of Gentle Birth," I believe, was about the Craffords of Surry County Virginia. The first paragraph was very meaningful to me, so I will share it with you: ie., "Some families find it difficult to preserve the identity and the true spelling of their names, for genealogists or record searchers, looking over old records two or three centuries later, conclude that they really did not know how to spell their own names properly, and so they changed the spelling. In this way it is probable that the ancient family of Crayford (Craford; Crafford) in Kent, England, became the noble family of the Earls of Crawford of Scotland. (Burges, Vol. 2, p. 465. The Craford family of Surry, without the "y" and more often shown as "Crafford" with two "ff's", is nevertheless nearly always changed to "Crawford" by writers.] The Craffords of Surry Co., VA and the Phillips of Surry were very close with several marriages. If you think theses may be related to your line I would be happy to suplly more info. Rex Phillips ----- Original Message ----- From: <HelenD1939@aol.com> To: <tnoverto@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:02 PM Subject: [TNOVERTO] Overton County DNA > > Carol, this was from another line but lots of DNA comments explaining > their > interpretation. I found it interesting. > > By the way, just recently received some exciting news. This should be > of interest for all of you on the Overton List Serve, not because of > the specifics, but because of the implications of the value of DNA > surname projects. DNA shows our line descending from the Crawfurd > Ardmillan Cadet in Scotland with only three mutations between my > brother and another member of our surname (Raymond) who has well > documented descent from that line. This suggests a common ancestor > (CA) within 300-400 years. We were quite easily able to identify a > possible common ancestor in James Crawfurd of Ardmillan, who had one > son that immigrated to England (Raymond's ancestor) and several that > immigrated to No. Ireland in the late 1600s (most likely including > ours). So basically we now can focus our search on Northern Ireland > Crawfords. Currently I am trying to find out name of sons that went > to Ireland, and county/ies they settled in. This narrows our search > from among many thousands, to a few specific individuals. In > addition, as the number of participants grow in the surname Y-DNA > project, we have a greater chance of connecting our descent with > others of the surname in the region of the country that the previous > generation to the earliest identified ancestor (EIA) might have come > from. So far, we have not found any Crawfords here in the US with > only one or two mutation differences. When we do -- it is only a > matter of time -- we will be able to work productively towards > filling in the five or six lost generations between the EIA (Edward) > and the hypothetically (pretty reliably estimated) CA (James of > Ardmillan). What DNA does in particular is narrow the search so that > you can focus document research in certain specific geographic > localities, and thus considerably reducing territory to be covered. > > Recommend you join projects for your surname if you haven't already. > Provides clues that will help breech that brick wall that may have > brought you to a standstill in terms of tracing your ancestry back > across the Atlantic, especially complicated when it goes through > Northern Ireland. Permits a focus on origins and tracing the line > forward that is often limited to bridging a gap over a few > generations (in our case, only about five or six). We are then home > free to connect with the historical genealogy of our cadet and > surname, which may not be perfectly accurate but has been extensively > researched and is fairly reliable back to the advent of surnames and > sometimes beyond. > > > > > > <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free > email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at > http://www.aol.com. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TNOVERTO-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pardon me for using the list-serve to answer Rex, but the points he brings up have a more general application, thus thought most of you might like this little peice of information on the origen of the different sepllings of Crawford. A similar history, I'm sure, is involved in the multiple spelling of other surnames. What has happened to the multiple spelling for Crawford is more a case of British Emperialism triumphing than anything else. In the early years, and for actually many centuries after the advent of surnames in England and Scotland (in about the 1100s), surname spelling were not standardized, thus multiple variations existed. Don't think the problem was that they couldn't preserve their identity because they didn't know the spelling of their surname. The opposite was the case, multiple spelling prevailed, with father and son often not spelling their surname the same way. Registries tended to homogenize the variant spellings of a surname, often assuming one was correct (not so) and changing the preferred spelling to one of their choice, in later years, the most commonly known one. However, no matter the spelling, we all belong to the same House or family. The ancient Scottish spelling of the surname is Craufurd. In fact, the first form was De Craufurd, since the Normans introduced the use of surnames in Scotland in the 1100s. A few generations later, the "De" was dropped. In part the "De" came from the fact that the surnames came from a place-name (the name of the Estate they held, thus Craufurd comes from the Barony of Craufurd, the largest noble estate in Southern Scotland in early 1100s (now containing two towns -- Crawford and Crawfordjohn -- which are about the only remnants of the Barony left, except a very delapidated castle in ruins known as the Crawford Castle next to the town of Crawford. The original estate was divided between two sons (Reginald and John). Reginald's line ended only a few generations later when there was no male heir. The Barony passed into the hands of David Lindsay who married the Craufurd heiress. This propelled the Lindsay's on a much more elevated career as the Earl of Craufurd (who is not a Crauford at all, except that the progenitress of that line was a Craufurd heiress). The Crawfurdjohn branch prospered and most of us descend from this branch. Some Scottish Crawfords still use the ancient spelling. Crawford is the English spelling, which is the version that has prevailed both in Scotland and in other countries, including America. However, other variations exist, which actually give an indication of both descent and country of immigration. For various political reasons (as soldiers of fortune and due to political repression in Scotland) Crawfords [excuse me, Craufurds] migrated to European countries, especially The Netherlands and Sweden, thus Crafford suggests a Dutch origin, while Crafoord tends to be Swedish. Yes, the American melting pot tended to change all to the English Crawford. One other variant that is is not uncommon is "Crawfurd" which denotes the Jordanhill and Ardmillan branches (known as cadets) of the House or family. Three corrections: (1) I will say that one branch of the family did immigrate to Surry, but they were actually from my branch and the spelling of the name is Crawfurd. Any Crafford or Crafford are probably returnees to GB from the European continent. (2) The Earls of Crawford are not Crawfords at all, but Lindsay's, descended from a Norman or Flandish knight that accompanied William the Conqueror to England and then a descendant went to Scotland with King David I when he returned (in early 1100s) to take the throne after many years of captivity under the English crown. (3) Nevertheless, what you say about Crayford as an ancient English surname is of interest to me. I'd like more details on that. Some descendants of a surname do come from different origins, with originally different surnames originating in different locations having been known to gravitate towards a common surname spelling. This is likely the case of some English variants. The origins of the Craufurd family or House is an Anglo-Danish noble (Thorlungus) with lands in Northumbria who accompanied the Anglo Princess Margaret (his cousin) and her brother Edgar, The Aetheling, heir to the throne of England, when they fled William the Conqueror. The Anglo King of England, Edward, had been killed at the Battle of Hastings by William. A storm blew them off course on their way to exile in Denmark. They landed in Scotland where Malcolm Canmore, the Scottish king, fell in love with her. They married (in 1059), and had nine or more children, three sons becoming successive kings of Scotland. Daughters married into the royal family of England and other European nations. The Scottish, and now English royalty, since James the VIth of Scotland/Ist of England), descend from them. She was canonized and is Scotland's only royal saint. Thorlungus received extensive lands in southern Scotland, undoubtedly due to his close kinship to Margaret (Thorlungus had common descent from Alfred the Great with the Anglo-English royals). Craufurd was not assumed as a surname until about half a century later, during the reign of David I, thus unlikely to have been taken up to Scotland by the defeated Anglo nobles, though not impossible. Rex, Your DNA project seems to have given you some excellent leads. It does that. Yes, anything you have on Crawfords is of interest. Though, I must say, we are most interested in having those folks get in touch with us and participate in both the Y-DNA project as well as join our Clan Crawford Association. Any of them that are interested can go to our web-site and sign up (www.clancrawford.org) or contact me (jcrawfordphd@sbcglobal.net). I'm very active in the Association. Both the President and myself (VP) are descended from two Overton County settlers of the early 1800s, Joseph and Edward Crawford respectively (not related, except back towards the advent of surnames). I like to kid and say: "Well, you know, Kevan and I go back a long way -- about 900 years -- to the very advent of surnames." DNA shows many more, though one-step mutations, than with the Ardmillan cadet. He undoubtedly belongs to one of the early branches of the family, maybe established back as far as the reign of King David I. To me, he belongs to the Dalmagregan Cadet (branch). Kevan doesn't like to speculate, though, so is waiting for confirmatory evidence. In any case, what draws us to genealogy is that it is fun. We do enjoy following the clues and solving the mystery. Genealogy is the modern detective story. Regards to all, Joanne Crawford On Mar 3, 2007, at 6:42 AM, Rex Phillips wrote: Would like to add an amen to the recommendation for joining a DNA project for your surname. I was able to confirm my line back to a GGGGG GF who died in Brunswick Co, VA in 1777with exact matches with others from whose line went back to my ancestors siblings. Even better, I was able to identify two individuals with close matches (35 of 37, and 36 of 37) whose oldest known ancestors were from adjacent counties in Virginia and we are now working to identify who our common ancestor(s) are. By the way. In working Surry County, VA for the 1600's and 1700's, the Craffords were prominent there. In some documents it is spelled Crawford. The following is from one researcher I spotted : [One very informative piece of information, found in "Americans of Gentle Birth," I believe, was about the Craffords of Surry County Virginia. The first paragraph was very meaningful to me, so I will share it with you: ie., "Some families find it difficult to preserve the identity and the true spelling of their names, for genealogists or record searchers, looking over old records two or three centuries later, conclude that they really did not know how to spell their own names properly, and so they changed the spelling. In this way it is probable that the ancient family of Crayford (Craford; Crafford) in Kent, England, became the noble family of the Earls of Crawford of Scotland. (Burges, Vol. 2, p. 465. The Craford family of Surry, without the "y" and more often shown as "Crafford" with two "ff's", is nevertheless nearly always changed to "Crawford" by writers.] The Craffords of Surry Co., VA and the Phillips of Surry were very close with several marriages. If you think theses may be related to your line I would be happy to suplly more info. Rex Phillips ----- Original Message ----- From: <HelenD1939@aol.com> To: <tnoverto@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:02 PM Subject: [TNOVERTO] Overton County DNA > > Carol, this was from another line but lots of DNA comments explaining > their > interpretation. I found it interesting. > > By the way, just recently received some exciting news. This should be > of interest for all of you on the Overton List Serve, not because of > the specifics, but because of the implications of the value of DNA > surname projects. DNA shows our line descending from the Crawfurd > Ardmillan Cadet in Scotland with only three mutations between my > brother and another member of our surname (Raymond) who has well > documented descent from that line. This suggests a common ancestor > (CA) within 300-400 years. We were quite easily able to identify a > possible common ancestor in James Crawfurd of Ardmillan, who had one > son that immigrated to England (Raymond's ancestor) and several that > immigrated to No. Ireland in the late 1600s (most likely including > ours). So basically we now can focus our search on Northern Ireland > Crawfords. Currently I am trying to find out name of sons that went > to Ireland, and county/ies they settled in. This narrows our search > from among many thousands, to a few specific individuals. In > addition, as the number of participants grow in the surname Y-DNA > project, we have a greater chance of connecting our descent with > others of the surname in the region of the country that the previous > generation to the earliest identified ancestor (EIA) might have come > from. So far, we have not found any Crawfords here in the US with > only one or two mutation differences. When we do -- it is only a > matter of time -- we will be able to work productively towards > filling in the five or six lost generations between the EIA (Edward) > and the hypothetically (pretty reliably estimated) CA (James of > Ardmillan). What DNA does in particular is narrow the search so that > you can focus document research in certain specific geographic > localities, and thus considerably reducing territory to be covered. > > Recommend you join projects for your surname if you haven't already. > Provides clues that will help breech that brick wall that may have > brought you to a standstill in terms of tracing your ancestry back > across the Atlantic, especially complicated when it goes through > Northern Ireland. Permits a focus on origins and tracing the line > forward that is often limited to bridging a gap over a few > generations (in our case, only about five or six). We are then home > free to connect with the historical genealogy of our cadet and > surname, which may not be perfectly accurate but has been extensively > researched and is fairly reliable back to the advent of surnames and > sometimes beyond. > > > > > > <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now > offers free > email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at > http://www.aol.com. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TNOVERTO-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TNOVERTO- request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I also have taken the Y-DNA and hope that my connections become clearer with the Garrett's,Martin's,Bost,Gouger and other families. ----- Original Message ----- From: <HelenD1939@aol.com> To: <tnoverto@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 3:02 PM Subject: [TNOVERTO] Overton County DNA > > Carol, this was from another line but lots of DNA comments explaining > their > interpretation. I found it interesting. > > By the way, just recently received some exciting news. This should be > of interest for all of you on the Overton List Serve, not because of > the specifics, but because of the implications of the value of DNA > surname projects. DNA shows our line descending from the Crawfurd > Ardmillan Cadet in Scotland with only three mutations between my > brother and another member of our surname (Raymond) who has well > documented descent from that line. This suggests a common ancestor > (CA) within 300-400 years. We were quite easily able to identify a > possible common ancestor in James Crawfurd of Ardmillan, who had one > son that immigrated to England (Raymond's ancestor) and several that > immigrated to No. Ireland in the late 1600s (most likely including > ours). So basically we now can focus our search on Northern Ireland > Crawfords. Currently I am trying to find out name of sons that went > to Ireland, and county/ies they settled in. This narrows our search > from among many thousands, to a few specific individuals. In > addition, as the number of participants grow in the surname Y-DNA > project, we have a greater chance of connecting our descent with > others of the surname in the region of the country that the previous > generation to the earliest identified ancestor (EIA) might have come > from. So far, we have not found any Crawfords here in the US with > only one or two mutation differences. When we do -- it is only a > matter of time -- we will be able to work productively towards > filling in the five or six lost generations between the EIA (Edward) > and the hypothetically (pretty reliably estimated) CA (James of > Ardmillan). What DNA does in particular is narrow the search so that > you can focus document research in certain specific geographic > localities, and thus considerably reducing territory to be covered. > > Recommend you join projects for your surname if you haven't already. > Provides clues that will help breech that brick wall that may have > brought you to a standstill in terms of tracing your ancestry back > across the Atlantic, especially complicated when it goes through > Northern Ireland. Permits a focus on origins and tracing the line > forward that is often limited to bridging a gap over a few > generations (in our case, only about five or six). We are then home > free to connect with the historical genealogy of our cadet and > surname, which may not be perfectly accurate but has been extensively > researched and is fairly reliable back to the advent of surnames and > sometimes beyond. > > > > > > <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free > email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at > http://www.aol.com. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TNOVERTO-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.5/707 - Release Date: 3/1/2007 > 2:43 PM >