Cousin Willie (I like that), Since you have never served in the military, you have never been `sworn' in that sense of the word.....However you have been sworn EVERYTIME you pledge allegiance to the flag (whether under god or not) of the United States of America, ONE nation, INDIVISILBLE..........hundreds of times in your life. Now to denounce your citizenship.......since you don't have a passport....... that is something you would have to take up with the immigration authorities.....ON YOUR WAY OUT OF THE COUNTRY. My sister adopted a baby while in England and Michael had dual citizenship until he was 12 years old. Then he had to go to court to denounce his Brit citizenship and swear his allegiance to the US. When he was 18 he tried to join our Navy and found that his Brit citizenship had not been dropped. It took three months to straighten up that mess (the local court had never filed his denouncement in Illinois). jerree

In a message dated Thu, 22 Aug 2002 5:38:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, braisl@madisontelco.com writes: > I have to stand by Jerree on this one Cuz., William. There was a time when > the signing of legal papers was just a formality and perhaps a visual > reminder of one's given word. I think in days gone by, not so long ago, a > person's word was their oath and it wasn't given unless they took the > "responsibility" to see that oath carried out. Unfortunately, in the case > of the War, circumstances arose that caused a division of loyalties. Lee > was against slavery, but he loved his native Virginia and Virginians. I > suppose he decided to abandon a lofty, unseen ideal, ie. the United States, > to remain faithful to what for him was the here and now, his family, friends > and neighbors. It couldn't have been an easy decision for any person of > honor and many had to do just that. When you read the history of the Civil > War you will see that many of the officers and probably volunteers and > enlisted men who fought against each other during that time had been > comrades in arms in the war against Mexico just a decade or so prior to the > split of the Nation Many of the officers had been students together at West > Point and served together afterwards in Texas. It had to be agonizing to > make these decisions, leave life long friends and know you may meet those > friends on a battlefield. As far as I am concerned, these > weren't cases of > cowardice and selfishness, but heroism. Elaine Then all of our Revolutionary 'heroes' were just people whose word was worthless and who got the upper hand over England. Before anyone beats me up for this, I don't believe it. It was a statement to make a point. There is a time in which it becomes necessary to break ties to ones former allegiances. William

You are correct. I have relatives from Georgia who moved to Southern Illinois before the Civil War. These men fought for the North because it had become their homeland. Very few soldiers are caught up in politics, but they are willing to give their lives for their country (right or wrong). Soldiers develop a respect for their fellow adversary, who also is fighting to protect his family and homeland.

Cleo, You said the County historian put out a book with thumbnail histories of the oldest 100 churches in the county. How can I obtain a copy? Barb

Jerree, wasn't Arlington taken from him as spoils of War? Elaine ----- Original Message ----- From: <BarnesWK@aol.com> To: <TNMONTGO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [TNMONTGO-L] question for true southerners > In a message dated 8/22/02 4:50:30 PM Central Daylight Time, Katt1930@aol.com > writes: > > > > Did you all know that Arlington National Cemetery was Robert E Lee's wife's > > > > I did know this. What I don't know is whether the land was donated to the US > from the Lee family or if it was taken from them. Do you know? If it was > 'stolen' then that is a terrible slap in the face that victor's are able to > do if less than honorable! > > William >

If anyone has any information on the MacCarrell and Elliot families who settled near Clarksville on Red River about 1793-1798, I would like to exchange information. The last MacCarrell I know of was William E. MacCarrell, 1825. I think he may be the brother of Margaret MacCarrell who married John Scott of Barren County, KY. Barbara Scott Wyche genie@houston.rr.com

Jerree, I didn't realize he never received a pardon?? Wasn't Jeff DAVIS pardoned?? I wonder why LEE wasn't. I oftne think of LEE'S wifes home at Arlington. It must have been a bitter pill to swallow when she and Robert couldn't return. I have never been there, but it looks beautiful. Do you have any idea who turned it into a Cemetery?? Elaine ----- Original Message ----- From: <Katt1930@aol.com> To: <TNMONTGO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [TNMONTGO-L] question for true southerners > Did you all know that Arlington National Cemetery was Robert E Lee's wife's > rose garden. She inherited it from her family. I think he is one of this > country's most honorable men and suffered from angina all through the war. > When he went to sleep at night he was always surprised when he woke up in the > morning alive. His punishment of his men who violated gentlemenly behavior to > civilians was swift and severe. Never could understand why he was refused a > pardon..... I don't think it is ever too late......I know he did not own > slaves.... I am not sure about his wife..... > > jerree >

Jerree, I guess I meant the mentality of the military leaders. I don't think those "boys" would have gone charging off on their own. And yes, you are right. Joshua Chamberlain was at Appomatox with Grant. Can't remember exactly what role he played there. Are there any pics. of him with Grant and Lee on that day? I remember seeing only the famous pic. of the two Military leaders. I suppose J. CHAMBERLAIN could have been in charge of the pen, or something. Don't they still do that these days when the Pres. signs an important document? Have you read CHAMBERLAIN's book of The Battle of GETTYSBURG? And yes, having the men stand at attention is one way to make sure they didn't yell. Elaine ----- Original Message ----- From: <Katt1930@aol.com> To: <TNMONTGO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [TNMONTGO-L] Re: War Between the States Cause(s) > Elaine, > > I believe it was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain (a college professor from ME) > who was in charge of the surrender....... and when Lee left the > courthouse.....EVERYBODY (on both sides) stood at attention > silently........one does not scream and yell while standing at attention. > > I am not sure what you mean about the `mentality of the > military'........80-90% of the military at that time were former civilians > with uniforms on. > > jerree >

Well ,Heaven has a new angel to watch over us this morning and one thing he is in a better place than we are. I want everyone on this list to please remember his parents and grandparents and his great grandma, Uncle and little sister in their prayers this week. God Bless this family. Anyone can count the seeds in an apple.........Only God can count the apples in a seed. Dana Bryant Powell

Congrats Helen and Jim You two have been through a lot together and hopefully more good than bad. I hope and pray that you two have a wonderful and blessed day. Anytime anyone has an anniversary these days I think it is so wonderful, cause so many people want to back out when there are bad and hard times. God Bless you two. Have a good day. Anyone can count the seeds in an apple.........Only God can count the apples in a seed. Dana Bryant Powell

Unfortunately William, in life, there are no absolutes. Yes, people have always had to make unpalatible decisions. And yes, you do make a good point. How good is a person's word?? And can one support that "word" no matter what??? I don't think so. Elaine ----- Original Message ----- From: <BarnesWK@aol.com> To: <TNMONTGO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [TNMONTGO-L] question for true southerners > In a message dated Thu, 22 Aug 2002 5:38:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, braisl@madisontelco.com writes: > > > I have to stand by Jerree on this one Cuz., William. There was a time when > > the signing of legal papers was just a formality and perhaps a visual > > reminder of one's given word. I think in days gone by, not so long ago, a > > person's word was their oath and it wasn't given unless they took the > > "responsibility" to see that oath carried out. Unfortunately, in the case > > of the War, circumstances arose that caused a division of loyalties. Lee > > was against slavery, but he loved his native Virginia and Virginians. I > > suppose he decided to abandon a lofty, unseen ideal, ie. the United States, > > to remain faithful to what for him was the here and now, his family, friends > > and neighbors. It couldn't have been an easy decision for any person of > > honor and many had to do just that. When you read the history of the Civil > > War you will see that many of the officers and probably volunteers and > > enlisted men who fought against each other during that time had been > > comrades in arms in the war against Mexico just a decade or so prior to the > > split of the Nation Many of the officers had been students together at West > > Point and served together afterwards in Texas. It had to be agonizing to > > make these decisions, leave life long friends and know you may meet those > > friends on a battlefield. As far as I am concerned, these > > weren't cases of > > cowardice and selfishness, but heroism. > > Elaine > > Then all of our Revolutionary 'heroes' were just people whose word was worthless and who got the upper hand over England. Before anyone beats me up for this, I don't believe it. It was a statement to make a point. There is a time in which it becomes necessary to break ties to ones former allegiances. > > William >

Today is the 49th wedding anniversary of Helen and Jim Hendricks! 'Old-timers' to the list will remember Helen. She's still monitoring the lists but has been unable to spend much time working on genealogy. Jim is one of our "Baggett Cousins". Jim has some medical problems but is determined to celebrate that 50th anniversary with Helen--of course, we hope they are able to celebrate the 75th! As you go through your day, take a moment to remember Helen and Jim. Sandy Ellis

Hello, again. Remembering acts of kindness and respect, remember that at the surrender (physically at least) at Appomatox, Grant "the butcher" extended all courtesy to General Lee, allowing no hurrahs by his men as Lee left Appomatox Courthouse. And please don't remind me of what Grant and Sherman did to bring the war to a close. If Winfield Scott had been listened to at the beginning of the War, much of the destruction by Grant and Sherman may not have happened. I will never understand the mentality of the military. Elaine ----- Original Message ----- From: <GARVINTX@aol.com> To: <TNMONTGO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [TNMONTGO-L] Re: War Between the States Cause(s) > You are correct. I have relatives from Georgia who moved to Southern Illinois before the Civil War. These men fought for the North because it had become their homeland. Very few soldiers are caught up in politics, but they are willing to give their lives for their country (right or wrong). Soldiers develop a respect for their fellow adversary, who also is fighting to protect his family and homeland. >

In a message dated Wed, 21 Aug 2002 9:26:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, Katt1930 writes: > Nope..... an oath for ones country/flag is not breakable except by > death....... > A contract is what you have with the finance company when > you can't pay cash. > > It is pears and peaches........ Am I bound by such an oath? I never took an oath for my country. What about renouncing ones citizenship, are they not closely akin? Cousin Willie

I have to stand by Jerree on this one Cuz., William. There was a time when the signing of legal papers was just a formality and perhaps a visual reminder of one's given word. I think in days gone by, not so long ago, a person's word was their oath and it wasn't given unless they took the "responsibility" to see that oath carried out. Unfortunately, in the case of the War, circumstances arose that caused a division of loyalties. Lee was against slavery, but he loved his native Virginia and Virginians. I suppose he decided to abandon a lofty, unseen ideal, ie. the United States, to remain faithful to what for him was the here and now, his family, friends and neighbors. It couldn't have been an easy decision for any person of honor and many had to do just that. When you read the history of the Civil War you will see that many of the officers and probably volunteers and enlisted men who fought against each other during that time had been comrades in arms in the war against Mexico just a decade or so prior to the split of the Nation Many of the officers had been students together at West Point and served together afterwards in Texas. It had to be agonizing to make these decisions, leave life long friends and know you may meet those friends on a battlefield. As far as I am concerned, these weren't cases of cowardice and selfishness, but heroism. Elaine ----- Original Message ----- From: <Katt1930@aol.com> To: <TNMONTGO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 9:26 PM Subject: Re: [TNMONTGO-L] question for true southerners > William, > > Nope..... an oath for ones country/flag is not breakable except by > death....... > A contract is what you have with the finance company when you can't pay cash. > > It is pears and peaches........ > > jerree >

My heart aches for the family. How very, very sad. Elaine ----- Original Message ----- From: <JODAP2@aol.com> To: <TNMONTGO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 7:24 AM Subject: [TNMONTGO-L] Travis > Well ,Heaven has a new angel to watch over us this morning and one thing he > is in a better place than we are. I want everyone on this list to please > remember his parents and grandparents and his great grandma, Uncle and little > sister in their prayers this week. God Bless this family. > > Anyone can count the seeds in an apple.........Only God can count the apples > in a seed. > Dana Bryant Powell >

Hi Cleo, Would you make that a second on the list. I would really like to search through it. Thanks. Elaine ----- Original Message ----- From: <blbblb@fidnet.com> To: <TNMONTGO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 12:40 PM Subject: [TNMONTGO-L] Histories of oldes 100 churches > Cleo, > You said the County historian put out a book with thumbnail histories of the oldest 100 churches in the county. How can I obtain a copy? > Barb >

Elaine.. I just went through the process of trying to find some church records and it can't be done....Each church keeps it own records and they are not saved in any central repository...If a church ceases to be, the records are lost unless someone in the church saves them.... >From: Elaine Suhre <braisl@madisontelco.com> >Reply-To: TNMONTGO-L@rootsweb.com >To: TNMONTGO-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [TNMONTGO-L] question for true southerners >Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 10:43:38 -0500 > >Thanks Jerree, I will bone up on the Marshall Plan for next time. This >could go on and on couldn't it? > >While I have your attention, does anyone know how I could find Baptist >Church records for Montgomery Co. for the early years of the 1800s? Or the >name of some of the churches? > >Many thanks. >Elaine >----- Original Message ----- >From: <Katt1930@aol.com> >To: <TNMONTGO-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 4:58 PM >Subject: Re: [TNMONTGO-L] question for true southerners > > > > Sorry Elaine...... > > > > That was after WWII, we rebuilt those European countries that we had > > destroyed with our tax dollars of course....same with Japan but we >called >it > > occupation. > > > > jerree > > _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

Jan, Did you ever find his grave? I hired an sharp old historian in Tupelo-MS that combed the county for CSA graves and he found nothing. The bonus was he would not charge me cause he didn't find a clue. I sent him a check anyway and he never cashed it. He has probably been dead for 20 years now. My CSA 2g gf was 53 years old and died of pneumonia. jerree

The south lost the war???? since when???? LOL...When all is said and done, the south got a great rallying cry.."the south will rise again!!"...Everyone wants to have a southern ancestor who fought for the Confederacy, The census soundexes the southern states first, and every genealogist I know wants southern ancestors....The last Yankee ancestor I had was Jacob Castleman, who came to the Nashville area, from New York, in 1780....I am sure some of the Kentucky ancestors crossed the Ohio river from time to time, but not for long.... > >I know this isn't genealogy, but I can't resist. It is all William's fault. >Quoting from one of his responses. > >"The reason I wanted to know, was that I have some IA kinfolk. They had >lived in TX for awhile and they told me the Texans were still fighting the >war. " > >Several years ago I had an elderly friend who went to school in Texas. He >seriously assured me that until he grew up and left Texas he never knew the >South lost the Civil War. The school year always ended before they got to >that part of the history book. (I didn't believe him, but I thought it a >cute story.) >Barb _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx