This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Trent, Burton Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/XeB.2ACE/3195.1.2.1.1.1 Message Board Post: Scott, You know, this is the best advertisment for a Trent DNA study that we could ever hope for. If we could get enough descendents of the Hawkins County and Hancock County Trents to participate, we could resolve the Burton and Trent issues within the year. David

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Trent, Burton, Winstead Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/XeB.2ACE/3195.1.2.1.1 Message Board Post: i would agree fully and what with old Wm. D. (Sr.) marrying "Peggy", I guess we are lucky that THEY were too old to have children, or we would have more mess!!!!!!

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/XeB.2ACE/3195.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: True and I have done the same, since the family has allowed me to quote from it...... and Henry did a good job of collecting the data, and tho two other guys corrected her "wrong" pages for me, IT is ok for its time period. We would be in another "crock" if Henry & Thelma had not done this work!

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Trent Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/XeB.2ACE/3195.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: Scott, Her book, like everything else, has errors. But, when I first looked through it about 4 ro 5 years ago, I thought it was a very good working document. I only found errors because I had information that she didn't have. I think that the quality of her research was excellent. I have used her book as a standard, and I feel that if you can find a genealogy that is 80-90% or greater correct, you have something to hang on to. David

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Murrell, Martin, Burton, Trent, Cobb Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/XeB.2ACE/3195.1.2.1 Message Board Post: There are some issues with Margaret Winstead. William Burton aka William Trent (son or stepson of Samuel Trent aka Samuel Burton) married Lucinda Murrell, daughter of James Murrell Sr. James Murrell Sr is known from court documents to be the illegitimate son of William Martin. Margaret Winstead was William Martin's daughter. So, James Murrell and Margaret Winstead were half siblings. William Murrell, son of James Murrell Sr, married two of Joel Cobb's daughters. One son of William Murrell was Pleasant G. Murrell who first married Susan Trent, daughter of James Burton Trent. So, this is why Scott Trent and I are having these discussions. It is a tough nut to crack. It appears (to me) that anyone descended from Pleasant G. Murrell was really a Martin and Burton descendent instead of a Murrell and Trent descendent. But, there are lots of unknowns yet. David

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Trent Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/XeB.2ACE/3195.1.1.1.1.1.2 Message Board Post: Oh, thanks for the vote of confidence. I don't know that I have the "best" it is only my 30 yrs. of digging and trying to get all entered in the puter and THAT does not include what is on message boards like this, the forums or the myfam sites...... THERE may well be material there that would fill in a lot of blanks that I have and add more uplines, but I have figured I would insert that material into my document, not until I got my pages out as while it may not be the best, it may well be the single largest collection of Trent data yet. (in one place) Don't know how good that makes it, but the total document is now printed out and is stacked on the floor and it is right at 18 inches tall. (single sided paper) DO YOU want to come over do the proofing corrections?????

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Trent, Burton Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/XeB.2ACE/3195.1.1.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: David, very true, and I have not yet figured out just how I explain the move of Thomas Trent and Alexander Trent from over under the Wm. D. (Sr.) lineage line, where EVERYONE KNOWS that for yrs. that was where they belonged, and certainly Thelma's book does not do much in helping explain how they got there in the first place AND her book has for yrs. been taken as the gospel on Wm. D. (Sr.)! Of course no one every did the research (like her brother did) on old Alex.(Jr.) & Jane when they had the living sources, and since his lineage line is so unknown and unsettled, (other then what is in the Kyle Collection in Knoxville, TN) we both are out here on a limb that could get sawed off........ so I'm more then willing to change chapters, but not at this time as I want the 3,000 pages out and comments coming in, BUT at some future date, maybe we can be more sure of the "blood" dna between Samuel and James B. O., tho to me "cousins" would be the best way to explain it, as I just can't get my mind around a solution that would say they had the same mother!!!!

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Trent, Burton Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/XeB.2ACE/3195.1.1.1.2.1 Message Board Post: Scott, I agree, we have a big problem, not only the James Trents, but with the two 1850 Jesse Trents. There is something wrong. Sharon and I have discussed it, but I just can't figure it out. And, I do think it is a key component of the Trent and Burton problem. Maybe we will find a "loose" document that will explain it. David

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Burton, Trent Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/XeB.2ACE/3195.1.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: Scott, I don't have a good answer. I know that it adversely affects your book, but maybe that is not such a bad thing. I think that there are two things that we have to consider. First, you have the best database on the Trents. So, whatever is figured out from these new records has to match up with your database from Virginia. The facts are the facts. Second--you and I have discussed this before--many of the early Hawkins County genealogies are in error. It may upset many researchers, but so be it--is the cup half empty or full? For example, we know for a fact that the Hawkins County Burton and Murrell genealogies were wrong. It tooks me four years to figure it out. I am sure that you found similar problems in VA. It may be that the Trent genealogies in Hawkins and Hancock counties are wrong too--I don't know for sure or to what extent. So, maybe one approach is to say--ok--if Samuel Trent (Burton) and James Burton Trent were closely related what does that mean in terms of your database? How would we explain it? Maybe we can't, and that is good information. But, in Hawkins and Hancock counties, 2nd and 3rd cousin marriages were the rule--for better or for worse. Taken as a whole, it does appear that Samuel Trent (Burton) and James Burton Trent were closely related. David

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/XeB.2ACE/3196.2 Message Board Post: Hi Doug, Remember me? We talked and corresponded about the Stapletons. When you went by this site, did you happen to find anything pertaining to James Stapleton, Susan Singleton, Joel Cobb or his wife Sarah, Winstead D. Cobb and his wife Nancy? I'm STILL looking for information about Nancy's maiden name, Joel's parents, James' parents, and Susan's parents. Thanks for your help with the Stapleton lines. I have since corresponded with Tom Stapleton a descendent of Shelby Stapleton, son of Nelson Stapleton who lives in North Little Rock. It turns out we grew up in the panhandle of Texas and had family in the same city. You once mentioned a land reference for James Stapleton which mentions Nancy. If you ever get the chance, could you get me a copy of that? I will gladly reimburse you for your cost.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/XeB.2ACE/3195.1.2 Message Board Post: Margaret Martin who married Ephraim Winstead married 2nd someone named Trent. If I remember correctly. It was mentioned in DC in a letter written about the time of her 2nd marriage. Also, very early in my Cobb research, I came across a mention of "the Burtons and Cobbs lived near each other" I think that this was in either Tennessee Cousins (unfortunately being inexperienced in genealogy 20 years ago, I did not note the name of the book. I just copied the statement. This may have referred to NC or even VA. I'll have to look.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Trent, Burton Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/XeB.2ACE/3195.1.1.1.2 Message Board Post: Oh the original James "Sop" Trent was supposed to have had an SON also named James Trent, so it always looked liked to me that we had too many unknown James Trent's.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Trent, Burton Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/XeB.2ACE/3195.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: David, some, all, or none of this may be true, but just how do you propose to rearrange the "mothers" and the family lineage lines to reflect this data? Samuel Trent is NOT a son (blood) or (half-) or out of wedlock a son of the mother of James B. O. Trent. Now since it has been proposed and I have had in my document, from the TN folks that Alex.(Jr.) had a son named James Trent, maybe James Alex. Trent, maybe there is more confusion here then we need. The orlginal James "Sop" Trent, who I guess we can assume was md. to the Catherine "Cathy" Templeton of TN, would be a brother to Samuel, but I am NOT prepared to re-arrange the child of Wm. D. (Sr.) and Alex.(Jr.) at this time, not based on this Hawkins document.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Lawson, Russell Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/XeB.2ACE/3198.1 Message Board Post: So, if this was the late 1860s, then this was Nancy Lawson, widow of Meredith Lawson, and their son Dire/Dyer. Nancy was formerly Nancy Russell, Meredith Lawson's ward or stepdaughter. Meredith Lawson was prosecuted for incest for his relationship with her, but he was acquitted because he was not actually her father. Sella/Sealy Lawson was another of the Russell girls living with Meredith Lawson in 1850.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/XeB.2ACE/3199 Message Board Post: I am looking for any information on James M. Brotherton b. 1844.. his military papers says that he was born in HAWKINS CO., TENN.. his mother Eliza Brotherton married Jesse I Maness and they lived in Greene Co., Tenn.. James Brotherton also lived and raised his family in Greene Co., Tenn.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/XeB.2ACE/3198 Message Board Post: State of Tennesse Hawkins County, County Court Order by the court that Orlena Madden a pauper in district # 3, has two children to wit William and Josephine, William 10 yrs, and Josephine 7 years old. Also Sealy Lawson one son William Lawson 9 yrs old. Nancy Lawson one son Dire Lawson 12 yrs of age. All of said children are on sufferance and should be bound out to some good persons to take care of them. Barney Clepper wants the two first names, as he is said to be their Grand Father. Jno. E. Starnes No date.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Trent, Burton, Murrell, Martin, Greene Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/XeB.2ACE/3195.1.1.1 Message Board Post: Scott, We have agonized over this issue before. But, there is no other James Trent in Hawkins or Hancock counties in 1850, 1860, or 1870 who could be this James Trent (uncle of William Burton) other than James Burton Trent. We know from census data this William Burton was living with Samuel Trent and Rebecca in 1830 and that he was married as William Trent in the 1830s. We know that Samuel Trent alternately used the name Samuel Burton. We know that William Burton was going by William Trent in 1850 and William Burton in 1860. We know that he lived next door so to speak to Samuel Trent in 1840 and 1850. We know that William Burton married Lucinda Murrell who was the daughter of James Murrell Sr. We also know that James Burton Trent's half brother Alexander married Polly Martin who was the half sister of James Murrell. We know that James Burton Trent's daughter Susan married the Pleasant G. Murrell grandson of James Murrell. John Alfred Murrell married a Greene who was rel! ated to the Greenes married by the half brothers and sisters of James Burton Trent. We know that James Trent said he was the uncle of William Burton aka William Trent. We know that James Burton Trent died in 1867, so that isn't a problem. Now, I feel that the question that we really have to answer is what does it mean to be an uncle of someone? I do have a case in a pension file where a cousin removed was referred to as an uncle. It was the pension file of William Lawson and three Stapleton brothers testified for him. One brother said he was unrelated, the other said he was a third cousin, and the third said he was the uncle. The genealogy for both families indicates that they were cousins removed. So, if Samuel Trent/Burton and James Burton Trent were first cousins instead of brothers, then William Burton would be a cousin removed if I calculated correctly. But, we have two Trents who were both known or believed to be Burtons, and one of them indicated he was the uncle of a man living with the other Trent/Burton as a son (or stepson). Both Burton/Trents were associated with Burton/Osbornes who married Trents who were closely related to each other. So, it might take a more complex story to explain wh! y they were not related. I think that a more simple explanation, given all of the information that we have, is that they were brothers, half brothers or first cousins. Since there is no Hawkins County census before 1830, we may never know the truth. David

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/XeB.2ACE/3197 Message Board Post: looking for siblings, parents, any info.appreciated.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/XeB.2ACE/3191.1.1 Message Board Post: David, I only have the Fields family forward from William and Judida, nothing going back beyond them. Kay

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Trent Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/XeB.2ACE/3195.1.1 Message Board Post: I may get in trouble too, but I see nothing in this to say that James (B.urton-O.sborne) Trent was a BLOOD BROTHER of Samuel Trent (son of Alex.Jr.-R.W. soldier)...... I don't have paper proof, only family stories told to me by several of the TN folks who unfortunely are all now dead and they did not have paper proof either.... BUT Samuel Trent never went by BURTON, and he always claimed to the be his father's first and oldest son and one has to assume that he meant via the wife Jane (Burton) Trent, tho it could well have been an earlier wife, but we have no solid paper proof or family story to say Alex. (Jr.) was md. before he md. Jane Burton. I SEE NO REASON to take this and jump to the conclusion that they (James B. O. Trent) & (Samuel Trent) are related via blood or from the same mother!!!!!!!!!!!!! ie.... Jane (Burton) Trent......... The closet one could come to assuming this is the fact that Samuel was born ca. 1790 and James B. O. was born ca. 1796 and that both would! then be the son of Jane and mystery William "Tink" Osborne who or which no one has yet been able to find or ID....... Plus how do you move either James B. O. & Samuel from one lineage line to the other??? Alex. (Jr.) vs. William D. (Sr.)-- these are two separate families and two different wives and mothers....... Jane vs. Charity.......