Butch, Sorry I am slow getting back. I don't think I have the information you describe. I would very much like to have a copy. Even though some of the Allens in Hardin County lived in the same general area as Samuel, Samuel didn't leave us a hint that he was kin to them. If he was kin, he was left an orphan at such a young age he didn't know them. They were already in Hardin County before he was born in KY. Perhaps if we concentrate on Allens in KY and the name Banks and Stanton there might be a clue somewhere as to Samuel's parents. His life is fairly well known after he arrived in Hardin Co. in 1840. I don't know what Shepherd Thacker was doing at Limestone Creek AL in 1840? Or, why Samuel Allen would come home with him? Do you have any answers? I am sending copies of this to Bertha and Jane as well as the list. Perhaps we can get some help there? David SAMUEL R. ALLEN, one of the best known and most respected residents of the Twelfth District, was born in Kentucky, August 16, 1830. His father was also a native of that State, a stone-mason by trade. Mr. Allen was raised by his grandmother, remaining with her until his sixth year, when he went home with Miss Banks, traveling for about one year; met with Mr. Stanton of Tennessee, on the Chattahoochie River in Georgia; the following year went to Kingston, Tenn., from there he went on a flatboat on the Tennessee River to Limestone Creek, Alabama, and there met Shep Thacker with whom he came to Hardin County in 1840 and remained with him for twelve years. He then began renting lands and farming. September, 1855 he was married to Miss Harriet Whitlow, of Hardin County who died January 27, 1884. This union resulted in the birth of eleven children, of whom are living, Milton J., Sarah M., Granville S., Grant A., Ettie E., William R. and George H.; two died in infancy. Mr. Allen married the second time to Mrs. Isabella (Falls) McDaniel of Hardin County. Mr. Allen is a zealous member of the Christian Church., belongs to the Agricultural Wheel of Tennessee, and is a staunch Republican. He is one of the most enterprising, cordial and esteemed men in the entire community. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Butch Carman" <[email protected]> To: "David Cagle" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 10:11 PM Subject: Re: [TNHARDIN] Re: family ties > David > I have some information on the Allen family which came from my mother (Eva > Jewel Allen Carman) and my grandmother (L.Zora Ponds Allen). > If you did not get that from my mother, I would gladly send it to you. I > have not included it to save space. You have but to ask and I will send all > that I have. I have a full family development but it is horizontal > information. When I go vertical, I end up in KY and a dead end as well. > Butch Carman > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Cagle" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 10:39 PM > Subject: [TNHARDIN] Re: family ties > > > > Bertha, > > I have been trying to figure out where Samuel R. Allen fits with the other > Allens in Hardin County. I have never seen a connection. Samuel married > Harriet Whitlow who was a sister of my g/grandfather, Augustus Whitlow, > 1850-1907. > > > > Samuel gave his life story to Goodspeed (see copy below) I have included > my file on the Allen family which tells what little I know. Samuel states > that he and his father were born in KY. > > > > David > > > > > > > > 1820 Census, Hardin Co., TN > > Ellender Thacker 2-00011830 Census, Shelby Co., TN > > E. Thacker 1102-10001 > > > > 1830 Census, Hardin Co., TN > > > > Wilson Allen 222001-000001 > > > > Micajah Allen 100001-000001 > > > > 1840 Census, Hardin Co., TN > > > > Ellender Thacker 01002-0000001, 2nd C. D. > > > > Wilson Allen 0122202-0000001, 6th C. D. > > > > Micajah Allen 011001-010001, 5th C. D. > > > > 1850 Census, Hardin Co., TN > > Sepperd Thacker 35 TN Farmer, 2nd C. D. > > Mary 31 TN > > Francis P. 15 TN > > William 4 TN > > Sarah M. 1 TN > > Eleander 57 TN > > Samuel R. Allen 18 KY Laborer > > > > Matthew Allen 36 NC 1st C. D. > > Nancy 24 AL > > Amanda M. 6 TN > > James Allen 28 KY 1st C. D. > > Martha 22 TN > > Newton 7 TN > > > > Micajah G. Allen 48 VA 2nd C. D. > > Elizabeth 50 SC > > Aaron W. 23 TN > > Elizabeth A. 18 TN > > John M. 14 TN > > > > John Allen 45 NC 3rd C. D. > > Polly 44 TN > > James 20 TN > > Martha 18 TN > > Elizabeth 16 TN > > William 14 TN > > John 12 TN > > Samuel 10 TN > > Alexander 8 TN > > Eliza 6 TN > > David 3 TN > > George M. 1 TN > > > > Wilson Allen 43 KY 6th C. D. > > Marian 52 KY > > Return D. 23 TN > > Duncan C. 15 TN > > > > 1860 Census, Hardin Co., TN > > Shepard Thacker 45 > > Mary 36 > > Frances P. 17 > > William 14 > > Sarah M. 12 > > John 10 > > Mary E. 4 > > Josephine T. 10/12 > > Elender 63 > > > > C. H. Whitlow 31 > > Henretta 29 > > William W. 13 > > Granville A. 10 > > Mary S. 8 > > James M. 6 > > Amanda H. 3 > > > > Milton Whitlow 52 > > Sarah 42 > > Emily 18 > > Oscar E. 16 > > Granville H. 14 > > Noah M. J. 12 > > Augustus 10 > > Amanda 8 > > James B. 4 > > Elizabeth Moseley 80 > > > > 1870 Census, Hardin Co., TN > > Samuel Allen 38 KY Farmer, 14th C. D. > > Harriet 35 TN > > Milton 11 TN > > Sally 6 TN > > Sherman 4 TN > > Grant 1 TN > > Sheperd Thacker 54 TN Farmer, 14th C. D. > > Mary 51 TN > > John 18 TN > > Elizabeth 14 TN > > Josephine 12 TN > > Prantis 6 TN > > Willaim Thacker 24 TN Farmer, 14th C. D. > > Mary Ann 23 TN > > Brownlow 2 TN > > Pearson Green 12 TN > > 1880 Census, Hardin Co., TN > > > > Samuel R. Allen 49 KY 12 th C. D. > > > > Harriet W. 45 TN > > > > James 21 TN > > > > Sarah 16 TN > > > > William 14 TN > > > > Grant 12 TN > > > > Effie 7 TN > > > > > > > > > > > > William Thacker 34 TN 5th C. D. > > > > Mary A. 33 TN Eng. TN > > > > Brownlow 12 TN > > > > Frances 9 TN > > > > Amelia 7 TN > > > > Sarah M. 4 TN > > > > Carah E. 2 TN > > > > Pearson Green 20 TN Eng. TN, sister-in-law > > > > > > > > Shepard Thacker 65 TN VA TN 5th C. D. Farmer > > > > Mary A. 63 TN SC SC > > > > Prentice 16 TN son > > > > > > > > John Thacker 28 TN 5th C. D. Farmer > > > > Sarah F. 27 TN > > > > Esra 1 TN > > > > Margaret A. Auston 20 AL TN TN given? > > > > > > > > William R. Thacker 60 TN NC KY Farmer 8th C. D. > > > > Mary J. 52 TN VA TN > > > > John H. 22 TN > > > > Andrew C. 20 TN > > > > Julia M. 16 TN > > > > William R. 13 TN > > > > Edwin A. 13 TN > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > Just recently given this article and thought it might be of interest to > > someone. Harry Allen was my grandfather's brother and S. M. Watson was my > > grandfather. > > > > Jane Watson Helvering > > > > Article from > > The Courier, Savannah, Tennessee > > Thursday, November 3, 1983 > > > > Justice Was Swift in '20s Brutal Murder > > > > In 1920, three Hardin County men were electrocuted for the murder of a > > well-liked county merchant. A third man connected with the murder was > > sentenced to life imprisonment in the state penitentiary. > > > > As far as a county official can remember, these have been the only persons > > from this county to be executed by electrocution and the only one to be > put > > to death before this time was a Mrs. Hughes, who was hanged on a gallows > by > > the riverbank for the hideous murder of her husband. > > > > The killing of Harry Allen, a store owner in the Hooker's Bend community, > > brought about great excitement and disturbance in the neighborhood, and > the > > three adults and two juveniles involved were quickly brought to justice, > > court records show. Chesley Graham and Will Allen were electrocuted in > > Nashville on July 9, 1920. George Allen was imprisoned for the rest of his > > life. The juveniles were found not guilty after they testified for the > > prosecution. However, many of the county people felt that the "brains" > > behind the scheme to rob and murder Harry Allen was never punished. > > > > On the morning of April 22, 1920, Harry Allen, a prominent county merchant > > in Hooker's Bend, was found dead in his store. Authorities said his skull > > had been crushed like an egg shell, and there was money scattered around > on > > the floor. Allen had been counting eggs, preparing a shipment. His body > > was found in the early morning hours; crouched on the floor of the store, > > between two counters and by an egg case. His head was on the blood stained > > egg case. > > > > Allen lived with his wife and several small children near the store. He > > usually made deposits in the bank at the town of Saltillo two or three > times > > a week, but the backwaters had been up for some time before the killing > and > > he had not made a deposit for several weeks. Allen had kept his money at > > his store, a fatal mistake. > > > > According to records, on the night of April 21, 1920 Allen went to his > home, > > ate supper, played with his baby, then informed his wife that he had to go > > back to the store to crate eggs to be ready for the peddler early the next > > morning. Allen lighted his lantern and went to his store. > > > > Later in the night, Allen's wife, who had fallen asleep, awoke with a > > feeling that something was wrong and went part of the way from her > residence > > to the store. She heard a noise and concluded that her husband was still > > engaged in crating eggs and returned to her home. In a short time she went > > to her front door and heard someone walking in the store. Assuming that > her > > husband was finishing up his work and was about to return to the house she > > retired and awoke about daylight the next morning to find her husband > still > > absent from the house. > > > > She ran to the store where she discovered the deceased's body in a > kneeling > > position with his hand in one end of a partially filled egg crate. When > she > > turned him over, she found his "head completely mashed and his face > bloody." > > In her testimony, she said she knew he had been dead some time. > > > > Three doctors who were called testified that the deceased's skull was > > "crushed like an egg shell." > > > > The men accused of the murder were arrested the next day. > > > > The killing of Harry Allen brought about great excitement in the county, > and > > five persons involved were quickly brought to trial, their sentences > > pronounced, their punishment carried out. > > > > In fact, they were arrested the next day, April 23, indicted April 27, and > > their trial began April 30, nine days after the killing. Two of the > > men-Chesley Graham and Will Allen-were electrocuted at the Nashville State > > Penitentiary on July 9, 1920. > > > > The state militia was called in to protect the prisoners, as general chaos > > broke out after the killing was discovered. During the trial, everyone who > > went into the courthouse was searched for weapons. > > > > Bloodhounds had been called in to search for the killers and the weapon. > > Officers approached one man they thought might be involved, and he ran > from > > them and was shot. He was not badly injured, and it was discovered that he > > had no part in the killing of Allen, but just "got scared" when the > officers > > started toward him. > > > > Chesley Graham was a farm hand for Abe Blankenship. He worked for the > > farmer and lived upstairs in the barn. > > > > Miss Josephine Bain, retired Savannah schoolteacher, was just a little > girl, > > living in Hooker's Bend when the murder took place. In fact, the men had > > taken a sledge hammer, the murder weapon, from her uncle Sam Watson's > barn. > > > > "In fact," said Miss Bain, "one of the men probably wore Uncle Sam's boots > > when he did the killing. He took them off Uncle Sam's porch, then after he > > wore them, put them back on the porch because the blood hounds used in the > > investigation came straight to those boots." She said that the stolen > money > > was found buried in a corner of her uncle's hog lot. "All of us children > > always thought a lot of Ches (Chesley Graham)." > > > > Miss Bain lived with her parents, the Jim Bains, in a house about a half a > > mile from the store where Allen was killed. There were two other houses in > > that area, the Abe Blankenship house and the Sam Watson House, all less > than > > a half a mile from the store. > > > > Miss Bain said that for years after the murder, she was frightened of the > > dark. "I could always envision men coming in and killing me." she said. > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > > > Jane, > > > > Following is a quote form "Hardin County History of Tennessee," by > Goodspeed Publishing Co., 1887. This information would have been given to > the publishing people by Samuel. His frist wife, Harriett was a sister to my > g/grandfather, Augustus F. Whitlow. I am attaching a picture of Augustus and > his family. Do you know Ms. Eva Allen Carman. She is a grandaughter of > Samuel. > > > > SAMUEL R. ALLEN, one of the best known and most respected residents of the > Twelfth District, was born in Kentucky, August 16, 1830. His father was also > a native of that State, a stone-mason by trade. Mr. Allen was raised by his > grandmother, remaining with her until his sixth year, when he went home with > Miss Banks, traveling for about one year; met with Mr. Stanton of Tennessee, > on the Chattahoochie River in Georgia; the following year went to Kingston, > Tenn., from there he went on a flatboat on the Tennessee River to Limestone > Creek, Alabama, and there met Shep Thacker with whom he came to Hardin > County in 1840 and remained with him for twelve years. He then began renting > lands and farming. September, 1855 he was married to Miss Harriet Whitlow, > of Hardin County who died January 27, 1884. This union resulted in the birth > of eleven children, of whom are living, Milton J., Sarah M., Granville S., > Grant A., Ettie E., William R. and George H.; two died in infancy. Mr. Allen > mar! > > ried the second time to Mrs. Isabella (Falls) McDaniel of Hardin County. > Mr. Allen is a zealous member of the Christian Church., belongs to the > Agricultural Wheel of Tennessee, and is a staunch Republican. He is one of > the most enterprising, cordial and esteemed men in the entire community. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Attention David Cagle : > > > > > > Samuel R. Allen must be my great, great, grandfather on my mother's > side. > > > We knew he came from somewhere else but I notice the census says > Kentucky. I > > > haven't been delving into this side until just recently and found my > notes > > > from years past. The children vary a little from what the census shows, > but > > > I am sure this is him. > > > > > > Family lore passed down told that he came from New Orleans on a raft, > and > > > settled with an Allen family-his name was not Allen, he just took the > name. > > > He must have really been an Allen, and lived with the Thacker family. > This > > > is great now that I know there is a real Allen connection. > > > > > > This information was given me by my mother and is possibly not exactly > > > correct. > > > > > > Sam Allen > > > children: > > > Grant, George, Sherman, Bettie, Molly, Minnie, Malcom J. (Jim) > > > > > > Malcomb J. (Jim) Allen m. Adelaide Story Allen > > > children: > > > Harry, James Malcomb, Vesta, Ira, Charlie, Horace, Ollie > > > > > > James Malcomb Allen m. Mattie Ethel Swift (probable Decatur Co., TN) > > > December 4, 1910 > > > children: > > > Pauline, Howard, Minnie, Verlon > > > > > > Pauline Ethel Allen m. James Leo Watson of the Hardin County Watson's. > > > These are my parents. > > > > > > Will appreciate any and all help with this. > > > > > > Jane Watson Helvering > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > > Get Your Private, Free Email at <http://www.hotmail.com> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bertha Allen > > To: David Cagle > > Cc: David Cagle > > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 8:34 PM > > Subject: Fw: family ties > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bertha Allen > > To: Bertha Allen > > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 6:25 PM > > Subject: Re: family ties > > > > > > Hi David, > > Sorry I don't know any other way to send you the link I don't know how > to set up a web page, and probably managed to get it on ancestry by > accident.Maybe I can give you a quick run down on the info I have on the > Allen's. > > > > info I'm sure of. > > William M Allen b 1877 bosque or wood co TX , m 1900 wood co TX to > vernon Wilson > > > > David D Allen b abt 1847 Hardin co TN, m. abt 1868 in TX > > to Catherine C Gray, d 1916 yentis cemetery wood co TX > > > > John Allen b abr 1804 In NC, married polly Mary ?? abt 1828. d between > 1850 & 1860 or at least I can't find him. > > they had 10 children all born in Tn. > > James 1829 > > Martha 1831 > > Elizabeth 1833 > > William jasper 1835 > > john 1837 > > Samuel 1839 > > Matthew Alexander 1841 > > Elisa 1843 > > David 1846 > > George Washington 1848 > > > > I have followed them all to cass TX except john the father, Samuel and > john the son.the others are in the 1860 cass TX census. > > > > the same names seem to keep popping up in this family generation after > generation > > > > I am trying to find out what John Allen's father's name was. > > > > I know in my heart these people are all related brothers or cousins or > something because they follow each other. These are the ones I think are > brothers > > Wilson Allen 1796 KY > > micajah g Allen 1801ky or VA > > john Allen 1804 NC > > Matthew 1813 nc > > James Allen 1816 nc or tn > > George w 1802 nc > > It seems Micajah and Wilson lead the way, in the next census you will > find most if not all of the others, except to Texas it seems only my 3rd > great grandpa's family made the move. except for john and Samuel. > > > > I found a Micajah Allen 1810 blues creek stokes co nc 13 males under 10, > 1 male 26-44, 2 females under 10,1 female 16-25 > > I found Micajah Allen 1820 (none given) stokes co nc 1 male under 10,2 > males 10-16, 1 male 16-26, 1 male 26-45, 1male 45 up. > > 4females under 10, 1 female 10-16, and 1 female 45 up. also 2 males in > agriculture,2 males in manufacturing > > 1830 Micajah, wilson, john, george w, all in Hickman Tn. > > 1840 Micajah and wilson in Hardin co tn. > > 1850 Micajah, wilson. john and james all in Hardin co tn, the other I > believe to be still in Hickman or Cocke the names are right but I have no > way to tell for sure. > > > > Micajah and Elizabeth show three other people in the household, I assume > to be their kids > > aaron w allen 1826 tn > > james w allen 1835 tn > > these two have the same birth year > > > > Samuel R Allen 1831 ky > > Elizabeth A Allen 1831 tn. > > > > If this is the same Samuel R Allen he married Harriet Whitlow in Hardin > co they had 8 kids. I was trying to follow him to see if I could find out if > the Micajah allen's I found were in fact related. SO FAR DEAD END.lol > > > > Sorry I couldn't make it easier and figure out how to send the link. I > haven't been using a pc very long it's the teaching the old dog new tricks > thing. If you have any info on this line of allen's in Hardin and don't mind > sharing I would love to see what you have. > > > > thanks > > Bertha > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bertha Allen > > To: Bertha Allen > > Cc: [email protected] > > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 4:54 PM > > Subject: Re: family ties > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: David Cagle > > To: Bertha Allen > > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 4:25 PM > > Subject: Re: family ties > > > > > > Bertha, > > I could not open the attachment, > > David > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bertha Allen > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 10:41 AM > > Subject: family ties > > > > > > Morning David, > > Jane Ellis gave me your e-mail address, she said you know a lot > about Hardin co tn. I found my 3rd great grandfather and his family. along > with what I believe to be some of his brothers. > > > > His name was John Allen b abt 1804 Nc he was a gun smith. > > wife Polly Mary > > the whole group can be found in 1850 census > > > > one of what I believe to be his brothers is named Micajah wife > Elizabeth on the census it shows three others in the house one is Samuel R > Allen, I am trying to link the people some way and maybe find out what my > 3rd great grandfathers name was. I believe I have followed them as far back > as 1810 Blues Creek Nc but don't know how to prove it since only head of > household is listed.I have followed Micajah from Nc to Hickman tn, to Hardin > tn, where most of them are by 1850 by 1860 many of them are in cass Tx. > > > > I don't have a web page and being pc stupid I sent you the link to > ancestry,com where I put most of the info I have. would you mind looking it > over and if you know anything about any of the allens please share with me. > > > > thank you > > Bertha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== TNHARDIN Mailing List ==== > > Visit the Hardin County, Tennessee Genealogy and History Page at > > http://www.tngenweb.org/hardin/ > > > > > > >