Milly Thanks, this may open a lot of doors, never knew a question that didn't lead to three or four more questions. Wm "Panter Bill" Crabtree married a Helm the first time, and somehow or the other these Helms are supposed to go back into Abe Lincolns line. I think the one Bill married is likely a niece of these in WI. I'll touch base with the lady in Monticello, who is decendent, she may have something. Denver do you know anything about these people? Wilma