This is not meant to sound in any way offensive but isn't it ironic that the property on which Central State Psychiatric Hospital stood is now Dell Computers!! Mari At 08:57 PM 7/19/00 -0700, you wrote: >TNCHAT-D Digest Volume 00 : Issue 49 > >Today's Topics: > #1 Re: [TNCHAT] POORHOUSE Info ["Renea Burkholder" <grburk@usit.ne] > #2 Re: [TNCHAT] POORHOUSE Info [Cheryl & Mark Zelek <zelek@mindspr] > #3 [TNCHAT] Poorhouse stuff [allenjm@bellsouth.net] > #4 Re: [TNCHAT] POORHOUSE Info [Fred Smoot <dogtrot@well.com>] > >Administrivia: >To unsubscribe from TNCHAT-D, send a message to > > TNCHAT-D-request@rootsweb.com > >that contains in the body of the message the command > > unsubscribe > >and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software >requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. >Complete rules for TnChat may be found at: >http://www.rootsweb.com/~tnunion/tnchat > > >______________________________X-Message: #1 >Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:04:48 -0500 >From: "Renea Burkholder" <grburk@usit.net> >To: TNCHAT-L@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: <01b101bff19b$11726dc0$c79a50d8@grburk.usit.net> >Subject: Re: [TNCHAT] POORHOUSE Info >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Hope this is not too serious for this list, but... >At the archives in Nashville a few days back I was looking at the Central >State Psych. Hosp microfilm. Found some info on Perry County people, took >notes and then asked a question of one of the workers there - Marilyn, if >you frequent. I noticed no Decatur or Henderson co folks, in fact it >appeared no counties west of TN river. Knowing of the existence of Bolivar, >I wondered if perhaps those living in west TN were sent there rather than >Central State. That was my question and I was hit with where did you find >those records? ( had already gestured with the 1 microfilm roll I had as I >had asked, so there was no bluffing my way out of an honest answer) Bottom >line all 6 or 8 rolls were pulled, they were not public information. Then >the conversation continued - poorhouse records should not be released >either, how embarrassing for family members, etc. And I thought, well what >about bastardy suits in court, the courtcase I read ( 1920's) where a father >was bringing suit for daughter allegedly raped and several witnesses gave >testimony with detail of the girl's seduction or trying to seduce them and >the suit was dropped. The mention in court records of 1 murdering another, >children putting out on bond to others because their father was neglecting >them. These do not have to be recent records. The negligent father was late >1700's in east TN. >I would prefer that all my ancestors were marvelously moral, upright, >outstanding members of their communities, but that is not reality. And once >we begin suppressing information, where do we draw the line? What is >embarrassing to me might not be to you and visa-versa. >I would prefer to learn that my lost ancestor was bound out and living with >another family than to constantly have a brick wall! >Well, my opinion probably makes no difference, but I feel better! >Renea >grburk@usit.net >TNGenWeb County Coordinator for Decatur Co, TN >http://www.netease.net/decatur >TNGenWeb County Coordinator for Perry Co, TN >http://www.netease.net/perry >Listowner Decatur, Henderson, Perry Cos, TN >TNDECATU-L-request@rootsweb.com >Listowner Liston surname >LISTON-L-request@rootsweb.com >Listowner Rains surname >RAINS-L-request@rootsweb.com >-----Original Message----- >From: Poor House Lady <phlady@jump.net> >To: TNCHAT-L@rootsweb.com <TNCHAT-L@rootsweb.com> >Date: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 10:27 AM >Subject: [TNCHAT] POORHOUSE Info > > >>Wow! Tennessee has an absolutely incredible amount of on-line information >>about poorhouses. I recently published a new website called The POORHOUSE >>STORY which is a clearinghouse for information about 19th century American >>Poorhouses at http://www.poorhousestory.com >> >>On our page where viewers can go to find poorhouse information by state >>http://www.poorhousestory.com/houses.htm we just sang your praises!! >> >>To see what we have listed so far for Tennessee ... just click on OTHER >>STATES to get a table and then click on TENNESSEE and you will be taken to >>http://www.poorhousestory.com/poorhouses_in_tennessee.htm >> >>Your comments are welcomed ... I am new at this web-publishing business >><grin> ... and your comments are NEEDED. The site will only develop through >>the submissions of folks like you listers. Volunteers are also needed to >>transcribe existing information for posting. >> >>If you are interested in the historical or sociological implications of the >>poorhouse system, you will find TONS of info to explore. But if your >>interest is strictly genealogical, you may be most interested in the >RECORDS >>page or the CEMETERY page -- as well as your own State page. >> >>Please do NOT respond to me through this list. (I would get FIRED and/or >>SUED by my ISP if I maintained subscriptions to all the e-mail lists to >>which I am posting this announcement!) Please respond off-list ... or I may >>miss your post. >> >>Happy Hunting! >>Linda Crannell >>(aka=The Poorhouse Lady) >> >> >>==== TNCHAT Mailing List ==== >>To subscribe or unsubscribe to this list please visit: >>http://www.rootsweb.com/~tnunion/tnchat >>This list is generously donated by Rootsweb for our use. >>Complete rules for TnChat may be found at: >>http://www.rootsweb.com/~tnunion/tnchat >> >> > >______________________________X-Message: #2 >Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:29:07 -0400 >From: Cheryl & Mark Zelek <zelek@mindspring.com> >To: TNCHAT-L@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: <3975E563.299D5DB4@mindspring.com> >Subject: Re: [TNCHAT] POORHOUSE Info >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >On Saturday, Mark and I were researching my Kirkman line. This particular >branch had ventured into the Scott Co-Morgan Co, IL area. As I scrolled through >the both the 1850 and 1860 censuses I found several pages of census data on the >Morgan Co poorhouse and the Morgan Co Insane Asylum (along with several Kirkmans >in both places). Depending on the year, wouldn't htat infomration become public >(like the 72 year census rule)? > >Cheryl > >Renea Burkholder wrote: > >> Hope this is not too serious for this list, but... >> At the archives in Nashville a few days back I was looking at the Central >> State Psych. Hosp microfilm. Found some info on Perry County people, took >> notes and then asked a question of one of the workers there - Marilyn, if >> you frequent. I noticed no Decatur or Henderson co folks, in fact it >> appeared no counties west of TN river. Knowing of the existence of Bolivar, >> I wondered if perhaps those living in west TN were sent there rather than >> Central State. That was my question and I was hit with where did you find >> those records? ( had already gestured with the 1 microfilm roll I had as I >> had asked, so there was no bluffing my way out of an honest answer) Bottom >> line all 6 or 8 rolls were pulled, they were not public information. Then >> the conversation continued - poorhouse records should not be released >> either, how embarrassing for family members, etc. And I thought, well what >> about bastardy suits in court, the courtcase I read ( 1920's) where a father >> was bringing suit for daughter allegedly raped and several witnesses gave >> testimony with detail of the girl's seduction or trying to seduce them and >> the suit was dropped. The mention in court records of 1 murdering another, >> children putting out on bond to others because their father was neglecting >> them. These do not have to be recent records. The negligent father was late >> 1700's in east TN. >> I would prefer that all my ancestors were marvelously moral, upright, >> outstanding members of their communities, but that is not reality. And once >> we begin suppressing information, where do we draw the line? What is >> embarrassing to me might not be to you and visa-versa. >> I would prefer to learn that my lost ancestor was bound out and living with >> another family than to constantly have a brick wall! >> Well, my opinion probably makes no difference, but I feel better! >> Renea >> grburk@usit.net >> TNGenWeb County Coordinator for Decatur Co, TN >> http://www.netease.net/decatur >> TNGenWeb County Coordinator for Perry Co, TN >> http://www.netease.net/perry >> Listowner Decatur, Henderson, Perry Cos, TN >> TNDECATU-L-request@rootsweb.com >> Listowner Liston surname >> LISTON-L-request@rootsweb.com >> Listowner Rains surname >> RAINS-L-request@rootsweb.com >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Poor House Lady <phlady@jump.net> >> To: TNCHAT-L@rootsweb.com <TNCHAT-L@rootsweb.com> >> Date: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 10:27 AM >> Subject: [TNCHAT] POORHOUSE Info >> >> >Wow! Tennessee has an absolutely incredible amount of on-line information >> >about poorhouses. I recently published a new website called The POORHOUSE >> >STORY which is a clearinghouse for information about 19th century American >> >Poorhouses at http://www.poorhousestory.com >> > >> >On our page where viewers can go to find poorhouse information by state >> >http://www.poorhousestory.com/houses.htm we just sang your praises!! >> > >> >To see what we have listed so far for Tennessee ... just click on OTHER >> >STATES to get a table and then click on TENNESSEE and you will be taken to >> >http://www.poorhousestory.com/poorhouses_in_tennessee.htm >> > >> >Your comments are welcomed ... I am new at this web-publishing business >> ><grin> ... and your comments are NEEDED. The site will only develop through >> >the submissions of folks like you listers. Volunteers are also needed to >> >transcribe existing information for posting. >> > >> >If you are interested in the historical or sociological implications of the >> >poorhouse system, you will find TONS of info to explore. But if your >> >interest is strictly genealogical, you may be most interested in the >> RECORDS >> >page or the CEMETERY page -- as well as your own State page. >> > >> >Please do NOT respond to me through this list. (I would get FIRED and/or >> >SUED by my ISP if I maintained subscriptions to all the e-mail lists to >> >which I am posting this announcement!) Please respond off-list ... or I may >> >miss your post. >> > >> >Happy Hunting! >> >Linda Crannell >> >(aka=The Poorhouse Lady) >> > >> > >> >==== TNCHAT Mailing List ==== >> >To subscribe or unsubscribe to this list please visit: >> >http://www.rootsweb.com/~tnunion/tnchat >> >This list is generously donated by Rootsweb for our use. >> >Complete rules for TnChat may be found at: >> >http://www.rootsweb.com/~tnunion/tnchat >> > >> > >> >> ==== TNCHAT Mailing List ==== >> To subscribe or unsubscribe to this list please visit: >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~tnunion/tnchat >> This list is generously donated by Rootsweb for our use. >> Complete rules for TnChat may be found at: >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~tnunion/tnchat > >______________________________X-Message: #3 >Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:01:43 -0500 >From: allenjm@bellsouth.net >To: TNCHAT-L@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: <3975FB17.AB107BA4@bellsouth.net> >Subject: [TNCHAT] Poorhouse stuff >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >My whole family on the maternal side once lived in the Poorhouse. > >Grandaddy ran it - he bid two oxen, one wagon, two plow horses and a >milk cow to get the job. My mother and her two sisters and >two brothers helped with the chores along with grandaddy and granny. > >He ran it for two years on his bid and then was outbid by another >fellow who had two milk cows to offer. But he got back in the next term >cause the other guy's cows went dry. My third uncle was >born in the Poorhouse. > >This was all back in the early 1900's and all are gone now but I can >still look out my bedroom window, across the river and see where it >stood. The property is now owned by John and Louise >(Mandrell) Haywood. He a descendant of the historian that wrote >of early Tennessee history. They have had erected a 40' high white >cross on the hillside where the Poorhouse was located and it is lit up >at night and can bee seen for miles. > >I probably wouldn't know any of this had I not found it in the County >Court Minutes. It was never discussed by anyone in my family that >I can remember but when I found it and asked my mother about it, she >really unloaded on me what a wonderful time they all had living >in the Poorhouse. Seems I recall from the Court Minutes that the >Poorhouse Budget was something like $750.00 a year on average, >which included salary and care of the poor. Medical treatments were >paid for with farm produce like cabbage, potatoes, corn, ham, etc.. I >remember a sulphur well there that my Dad used to >take us to once a month for a cure-all 1/2 pint drink from a community >fruit jar. (ugh) But he never mentioned anything about >Mother's family having lived there. > >There was another well there also that contained mineral waters that >were supposed to contain curative ingredients which was at >one time shipped out all over the country and sold on passing trains. > > >Rsp. Jim > >______________________________X-Message: #4 >Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:10:24 -0700 >From: Fred Smoot <dogtrot@well.com> >To: TNCHAT-L@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: <39762750.7C51@well.com> >Subject: Re: [TNCHAT] POORHOUSE Info >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Hi Renea et al, > >Somewhere in my stack of papers, I have a note that TSLA has some >records that are closed to the public. They are mental health records. > >Some states do have pre-1920 records open to the public. Here is an >example from Indiana: > >http://www.ai.org/icpr/webfile/csh_aiin/chs_col2.html > >Perhaps there is a Tennessee law that prohibits the release of those >records. > >The Nashville "Tennessee State Hospital for the Insane," changed its >name to "Central State Psychiatric Hospital." I have a gg-grandfather >who was an inmate there. I never could find the grave. But he is on the >1880 TN mortality schedule and shown as dying at the hospital in 1879. > >Fred Smoot > >PS. Back in 1999, someone stole the gates from the old hospital. > >http://www.tennessean.com/sii/99/09/18/gates18.shtml > >This article states that 1,600 are buried there. Does anyone know if the >cemetery has been surveyed? > >**** > >Renea Burkholder wrote: >> >> Hope this is not too serious for this list, but... >> At the archives in Nashville a few days back I was looking at the Central >> State Psych. Hosp microfilm. Found some info on Perry County people, took >> notes and then asked a question of one of the workers there - Marilyn, if >> you frequent. I noticed no Decatur or Henderson co folks, in fact it >> appeared no counties west of TN river. Knowing of the existence of Bolivar, >> I wondered if perhaps those living in west TN were sent there rather than >> Central State. That was my question and I was hit with where did you find >> those records? ( had already gestured with the 1 microfilm roll I had as I >> had asked, so there was no bluffing my way out of an honest answer) Bottom >> line all 6 or 8 rolls were pulled, they were not public information. Then >> the conversation continued - poorhouse records should not be released >> either, how embarrassing for family members, etc. And I thought, well what >> about bastardy suits in court, the courtcase I read ( 1920's) where a father >> was bringing suit for daughter allegedly raped and several witnesses gave >> testimony with detail of the girl's seduction or trying to seduce them and >> the suit was dropped. The mention in court records of 1 murdering another, >> children putting out on bond to others because their father was neglecting >> them. These do not have to be recent records. The negligent father was late >> 1700's in east TN. >> I would prefer that all my ancestors were marvelously moral, upright, >> outstanding members of their communities, but that is not reality. And once >> we begin suppressing information, where do we draw the line? What is >> embarrassing to me might not be to you and visa-versa. >> I would prefer to learn that my lost ancestor was bound out and living with >> another family than to constantly have a brick wall! >> Well, my opinion probably makes no difference, but I feel better! >> Renea >> grburk@usit.net >> TNGenWeb County Coordinator for Decatur Co, TN >> http://www.netease.net/decatur >> TNGenWeb County Coordinator for Perry Co, TN >> http://www.netease.net/perry >> Listowner Decatur, Henderson, Perry Cos, TN >> TNDECATU-L-request@rootsweb.com >> Listowner Liston surname >> LISTON-L-request@rootsweb.com >> Listowner Rains surname >> RAINS-L-request@rootsweb.com >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Poor House Lady <phlady@jump.net> >> To: TNCHAT-L@rootsweb.com <TNCHAT-L@rootsweb.com> >> Date: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 10:27 AM >> Subject: [TNCHAT] POORHOUSE Info >> >> >Wow! Tennessee has an absolutely incredible amount of on-line information >> >about poorhouses. I recently published a new website called The POORHOUSE >> >STORY which is a clearinghouse for information about 19th century American >> >Poorhouses at http://www.poorhousestory.com >> > >> >On our page where viewers can go to find poorhouse information by state >> >http://www.poorhousestory.com/houses.htm we just sang your praises!! >> > >> >To see what we have listed so far for Tennessee ... just click on OTHER >> >STATES to get a table and then click on TENNESSEE and you will be taken to >> >http://www.poorhousestory.com/poorhouses_in_tennessee.htm >> > >> >Your comments are welcomed ... I am new at this web-publishing business >> ><grin> ... and your comments are NEEDED. The site will only develop through >> >the submissions of folks like you listers. Volunteers are also needed to >> >transcribe existing information for posting. >> > >> >If you are interested in the historical or sociological implications of the >> >poorhouse system, you will find TONS of info to explore. But if your >> >interest is strictly genealogical, you may be most interested in the >> RECORDS >> >page or the CEMETERY page -- as well as your own State page. >> > >> >Please do NOT respond to me through this list. (I would get FIRED and/or >> >SUED by my ISP if I maintained subscriptions to all the e-mail lists to >> >which I am posting this announcement!) Please respond off-list ... or I may >> >miss your post. >> > >> >Happy Hunting! >> >Linda Crannell >> >(aka=The Poorhouse Lady) >> > >