I just started a list of features and functionalities that are important to me. For each, I list the relevant feature in TMG, RM, Legacy, and FH and any strengths and weaknesses. That is helping me organize my thoughts and my evaluations of the alternatives. It would be great to collaborate on such a list. Barbara -- Barbara Levergood levergood@att.net Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III  <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Tom via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> </div><div>Date:08/29/2014 11:15 PM (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com </div><div>Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] GEDcom discussion on TMG list </div><div> </div>Absolutely! In fact, I thought about compiling a list of those that might be important to "us". Unfortunately, my thought came late and I had deleted the messages. It might still be worth the effort to dig out the messages and start a list. Maybe take the items important to "us" and periodically combine them into a growing list. Tom -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Zanzig via Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 9:38 PM To: tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com Subject: [TMG-REFUGEES] GEDcom discussion on TMG list I trust everyone is following the GEDcom discussion on the TMG list? Invaluable information. Barbara *** To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I just want to chime in here and encourage everyone to support the Better GEDcom project, sponsored by FHISO: http://fhiso.org/ . Here is the press release I received 16 Aug.: Thank you for your interest in the Family History Information Standards Organisation (FHISO, http://fhiso.org/) and your patience as we have slowly prepared to begin our technical work. The Technical Standing Committee is pleased to announce that we are now ready to begin that technical process! We invite you to participate in any or all of the following ways: 1. Subscribe to the low-volume tsc-announce mailing list. That's where we'll send notices of new technical projects and other important announcements and updates. Visit http://fhiso.org/mailman/listinfo/tsc-announce_fhiso.org to subscribe. 2. Participate in open discussions on the tsc-public mailing list; visit http://fhiso.org/mailman/listinfo/tsc-public_fhiso.org to subscribe. 3. Join an exploratory group, or propose your own; see http://fhiso.org/tsc-egs/ for more. 4. The Call for Papers is still active; see http://fhiso.org/call-for-papers/ for more. You can also learn more about the technical work of FHISO through the Technical Standing Committee's web portalhttp://fhiso.org/tsc/ --Dr. Luther A. Tychonievich, TSC Chair -- Barbara Zanzig Kirkland, WA Zanzig one name study: http://www.zanziggenealogy.info/ZanzigStudy/index.htm

Oh, Barbara, we need a home for such lists. It's ultra late for me--but given this is a Rootsweb list, anybody have suggestions for a file repository--say, such as a Google group? I can work out the technicalities so members of this group belong, but I'd especially like to know of any objections. Barbara Z. On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 6:41 AM, Barbara Levergood via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > I just started a list of features and functionalities that are important to me. For each, I list the relevant feature in TMG, RM, Legacy, and FH and any strengths and weaknesses. That is helping me organize my thoughts and my evaluations of the alternatives. > > It would be great to collaborate on such a list. > > Barbara > > -- > Barbara Levergood > levergood@att.net > Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S(tm) III > > <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Tom via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> </div><div>Date:08/29/2014 11:15 PM (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com </div><div>Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] GEDcom discussion on TMG list </div><div> > </div>Absolutely! In fact, I thought about compiling a list of those that might be > important to "us". Unfortunately, my thought came late and I had deleted the > messages. It might still be worth the effort to dig out the messages and > start a list. Maybe take the items important to "us" and periodically > combine them into a growing list. > > Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: Barbara Zanzig via > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 9:38 PM > To: tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com > Subject: [TMG-REFUGEES] GEDcom discussion on TMG list > > I trust everyone is following the GEDcom discussion on the TMG list? > Invaluable information. > > Barbara > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Barbara Zanzig Kirkland, WA Zanzig one name study: http://www.zanziggenealogy.info/ZanzigStudy/index.htm

Absolutely! In fact, I thought about compiling a list of those that might be important to "us". Unfortunately, my thought came late and I had deleted the messages. It might still be worth the effort to dig out the messages and start a list. Maybe take the items important to "us" and periodically combine them into a growing list. Tom -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Zanzig via Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 9:38 PM To: tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com Subject: [TMG-REFUGEES] GEDcom discussion on TMG list I trust everyone is following the GEDcom discussion on the TMG list? Invaluable information. Barbara

I trust everyone is following the GEDcom discussion on the TMG list? Invaluable information. Barbara -- Barbara Zanzig Kirkland, WA Zanzig one name study: http://www.zanziggenealogy.info/ZanzigStudy/index.htm

Great initiative Barbara - although I'm not sure I want to be thought of as a REFUGEE. Personally I'm going to stay for some time in my TMG Castle and watch the refugees passing my door, to see where they attempt to go and whether they survive the journey.. I note with some amusement that the TMG List convenor thinks discussion of TMG -> RootsMagic issues belong in the RootsMagic forum, while the RootsMagic forum Admin thinks issues with TMG migration to RM belong in the TMG List.. Don Ferguson

-----Original Message----- from Tom: > Problem #2: I am a stickler for Sources. I have big ones, small ones, fat ones, and skinny ones. Yes, I do have some material not sourced, but > logic has led me to include it. I see that RM may be leading the pack in the area of Sources with their 400+ Evidence Explained sources. I don't > know how well they are implemented, don't know how modifiable they are, and don't know how they "feel". I have experimented quite a bit with RM sourcing and I am impressed. Their implementation allows for lumpers as well as the detail folks (I forget our nickname for them...) without having to jump through a bunch of hoops. You create a RM "master source" that includes the information that would be common to all specific references to that source. The master source could be as general as "1940 census" or it could be as specific as individual households if you want to go that far. But you take all the values required to complete a source and you divide them into master source parts and detail source parts. You can customize as you see fit. When you reference a master source, you are then prompted to fill in the details necessary to complete the specific source reference. The really nice feature is you can move data values back and forth between the master source portion and the details. So you can "lump" as much as you want, or you can have almost everything in the details, if you like it that way. As you enter your source data, a second window shows the footnote, short footnote and bibliography entries being built as you type. I found that to be extremely good feedback. You can also create custom source templates if you feel the need. Also, as you are doing data entry and you get a specific source reference defined the first time (like perhaps for a census), you can click a "memorize" button that records that source reference. Then you can paste that source into as many different source instances as you might want to use it (Census, Birth, residence, marriage, occupation, etc, etc.) My impression (I'm no expert) is Roots has a very good implementation for sourcing. I would say it is one of their major strengths.

Let’s not forget that being a part of “TMG-REFUGEES” means SS too. Many of us have learned to live and die with SS as our go to program for getting our TMG data on the web. I’m not talking about the web hosting service that John provides, but am talking about SS itself. I’m talking beautiful websites, websites with every “bell and whistle” you can think of. None of the genealogy program alternatives come close to doing what SS does for TMG. Leg looks horrible and has little if any flexibility. RM is slightly better than Leg, but it appears that RM wants the user to use their web space. This would be much like the FTM websites of old, with almost zero flexibility. TNG can do a bit of fancy stuff, but it is entirely web based and nothing resides on your own computer (unless you want to go to great lengths to set up some form of SQL on your home PC). So for those of us that have data on websites, it isn’t just flicking a switch and like magic we have a nice website again. Tom

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First, thank you for creating this list. I had my qualms about posting on the TMG, RM, Leg, TNG, FTM (Yuk), et. al. lists/forums because I wasn't sure what could be said about various products without offending someone or some business. Plus, some of it was over my head and other parts just didn't seem applicable. With the exception of FTM, I am looking at the products listed above. I did (yesterday) purchase the latest TMG upgrade; I was still on version 8. Like many of you, I will stick with TMG -- for the time being. I still need to upgrade SS. Heck, I don't even know what version I'm running! LOL That gives me some stability for the near-term, but I'm not getting any younger. Funny how we always get older, but we never get younger. Who will I turn all of these books, notes, materials, software, website, research, etc. over to when I am no longer capable? It looks like my daughter is the only one in the running. Nobody else cares or has the desire. Problem #1: My daughter cannot use TMG/SS and refuses to attempt to learn it. She is more of a researcher and hates all the data entry things I make TMG accomplish. She is totally clueless when it comes to SS and putting a website online. Problem #2: I am a stickler for Sources. I have big ones, small ones, fat ones, and skinny ones. Yes, I do have some material not sourced, but logic has led me to include it. I see that RM may be leading the pack in the area of Sources with their 400+ Evidence Explained sources. I don't know how well they are implemented, don't know how modifiable they are, and don't know how they "feel". I guess that's enough rambling for now and I hope you are all well :) Tom

In addition to all the offline programs, I want to add the online ones: Ancestry, FamilySearch, Mocavo, MyHeritage, FamilyTreeDNA, Geni.com, and so on. One of my motivations is to find a program that makes it easy to exchange data with the cloud-based services, and they have their idiosyncrasies too: Ancestry doesn't recognize my carefully sourced Ancestry sources; I recently learned that some services recognize only Christening as an alternative birth event (Baptism is taken to be LDS baptism--thank you TMG Utility for a quick fix to that!), and so on. Barbara On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 7:12 PM, Tom via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > First, thank you for creating this list. I had my qualms about posting on > the TMG, RM, Leg, TNG, FTM (Yuk), et. al. lists/forums because I wasn't sure > what could be said about various products without offending someone or some > business. Plus, some of it was over my head and other parts just didn't seem > applicable. > > With the exception of FTM, I am looking at the products listed above. I did > (yesterday) purchase the latest TMG upgrade; I was still on version 8. Like > many of you, I will stick with TMG -- for the time being. I still need to > upgrade SS. Heck, I don't even know what version I'm running! LOL That gives > me some stability for the near-term, but I'm not getting any younger. Funny > how we always get older, but we never get younger. -- Barbara Zanzig Kirkland, WA Zanzig one name study

I'm not getting off TMG anytime soon myself--it's going to take some time to identify all the issues and a strategy, let alone get my data in shape to export. I figure I can clean up my information and it will benefit me no matter what program I'm using. Refugees is probably the right place for that TMG-Rootsmagic discussion. Barbara On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Don Ferguson via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Great initiative Barbara - although I'm not sure I want to be thought of as > a REFUGEE. > > Personally I'm going to stay for some time in my TMG Castle and watch the > refugees passing my door, to see where they attempt to go and whether they > survive the journey.. -- Barbara Zanzig Kirkland, WA Zanzig one name study

On 8/28/14, 7:35 AM, Barbara Zanzig wrote: > TMG outputs in ANSI, ANSEL or IBMPC. None are compatible with --not > sure with what, whether it's my Mac, my programs, the transfer over > from the PC to the Mac, or just what. But for several of my Mac based > programs (3 Mac genealogy programs, Evidentia, etc.) I have to convert > my GEDcoms to UTF-8 so that my Norwegian and German characters appear > correctly. Now that I'm getting it figured out it goes more quickly > and I've got a script, but figuring out the right parameters took a > couple of support calls and some trial and error. > > Barbara > Ok, I suspect that means that you have your PC set to use a character set other than the "Windows English Default", and TMG doesn't know (and maybe GEDCOM/your other programs don't support anything but that or UTF, will need to look at that) how to declare that. Asking, because as I mentioned on TMG-L, one project I am thinking of is a better GEDCOM export, and trying to figure out what are all the issues with TMGs to try to fix. -- Richard Damon

On 8/28/14, 2:35 AM, Barbara Zanzig via wrote: > I have all the programs, and have had for some time. I've been > contemplating this jump for years, really. Besides RootsMagic and > Legacy, I also have MacFamilyTree, FTM, and Reunion, all for Mac. If I > have to GEDcom out it would be a boon to me to be able to get off the > PC and back onto my native system. > > Apart from the things we know of--tags that don't export to GEDcom, > witnesses, split CDs and the like (maybe we should make a list > somewhere), I have another issue. I have a lot of foreign names and > naming conventions that don't export well--I've just finished > restructuring my Norwegian names to better export to GEDcom, and > cleaning up spellings and the like. But every time I export I have to > convert to UTF-8 and then check the file before importing it anywhere > else. > > I figure there is a lot I can do to clean up citations, witnesses, > names, and the like, before I ever have to choose a destination > program. And in the meantime, cleaning that up makes it easier to > publish to Ancestry, FamilySearch, etc. > A little curious what clean-up you are getting done by converting to UTF-8? Is the issue that you aren't using the default character set, so that the GEDCOM is encoding special characters wrong? -- Richard Damon

I can see another area where I need a strategy is in flag handling. I make extensive use of flags to determine who to output for various situations. Anybody know how other programs stack up? -- Barbara Zanzig Kirkland, WA

TMG outputs in ANSI, ANSEL or IBMPC. None are compatible with --not sure with what, whether it's my Mac, my programs, the transfer over from the PC to the Mac, or just what. But for several of my Mac based programs (3 Mac genealogy programs, Evidentia, etc.) I have to convert my GEDcoms to UTF-8 so that my Norwegian and German characters appear correctly. Now that I'm getting it figured out it goes more quickly and I've got a script, but figuring out the right parameters took a couple of support calls and some trial and error. Barbara On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 4:13 AM, Richard Damon via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > A little curious what clean-up you are getting done by converting to > UTF-8? Is the issue that you aren't using the default character set, so > that the GEDCOM is encoding special characters wrong? > -- Barbara Zanzig Kirkland, WA Zanzig one name study

I have all the programs, and have had for some time. I've been contemplating this jump for years, really. Besides RootsMagic and Legacy, I also have MacFamilyTree, FTM, and Reunion, all for Mac. If I have to GEDcom out it would be a boon to me to be able to get off the PC and back onto my native system. Apart from the things we know of--tags that don't export to GEDcom, witnesses, split CDs and the like (maybe we should make a list somewhere), I have another issue. I have a lot of foreign names and naming conventions that don't export well--I've just finished restructuring my Norwegian names to better export to GEDcom, and cleaning up spellings and the like. But every time I export I have to convert to UTF-8 and then check the file before importing it anywhere else. I figure there is a lot I can do to clean up citations, witnesses, names, and the like, before I ever have to choose a destination program. And in the meantime, cleaning that up makes it easier to publish to Ancestry, FamilySearch, etc. -- Barbara Zanzig Kirkland, WA Zanzig one name study

As a jumping off point, I'd like to recommend Michael Hannah's excellent analysis of what does and does not export to GEDcom, posted in the TMG list earlier today, titled "TMG GEDCOM export issues". Barbara -- Barbara Zanzig Kirkland, WA

Thank you to Barbara Zanzig for starting this new list. Here is what I'm doing and my current plan. Others will have different needs and plans. I've purchased the full current versions of both Rootsmagic and Legacy, I've been working with them since a few days after Bob Velke's announcement. It is a toss up as to which will work best for me. My plan: 1. Maintain TMG, mostly as is, for the next year or longer. Needed for items that didn't import and weren't noticed in cleanup. Needed for Second Site until John, hopefully, makes SS workable with other programs. My data entry is up-to-date, so only key items will be added in the future. Fortunately I'm up-to-date on my data entry. Important corrections will be made. Beyond that new entry will be limited to new important information for direct ancestors, basic information for children of directs, and possibly key data ( maybe BMD) for grandchildren of directs. I don't envision doing much new entry in TMG. 2. Do extensive cleanup on one of the new programs. This will become my main program. (Already started on this.) 3. Keep an import in the second new program and do some cleanup and new entries. This will give me two viable programs and enable me to switch to the other if it adds lots more TMG-like features. another Barbara

Greetings, Thanks for joining the list. I intend this to be a respectful place for those of us who have decided to detach ourselves from TMG. All discussions of methods, evaluation of alternatives, and the like are welcome. Barbara -- Barbara Zanzig Kirkland, WA