Just curious -- what happens to data we have "excluded" in TMG when our data is imported into other programs? Judy Madnick Albany, NY (who isn't in a rush to give up TMG!)

Darrell is deceased. Messages were never "gatewayed" or forwarded between the Rootsweb and the Google list. I don't think that is supposed to be done. I also don't think it is a good idea. Most people would only be subscribed to one of the lists. We'd end up responding to people who weren't subscribed etc. Rootsweb lists work fine. People can always include a link is they wish to include anything that won't show in a Rootsweb post. I subscribe to 2 Rootsweb DNA lists and that's done a lot there. Barbara

The question of Rootsweb as a host is up in the air at the moment--I see there is an SS-L list at Rootsweb as well as at Google and I'll get in touch with John and Darrell about how they gateway messages between the two. I have the same problem Judy does about my email strongly preferring to send HTML rather than plain text, and there are some other advantages to having both the mailing list and website on the same platform. For the moment, I have added Tom and Barbara as "writers" on the website to see if we can start getting some content, pull in their layout ideas, etc. I will be gone Thursday afternoon-Sunday and wanted them to be able to play while I'm gone. If anyone else wants access specifically this weekend, drop me an email Thursday and tell me if you want read or edit access, and I'll take care of it. Next week I'll do some site partitioning so that not everyone needs edit access to the entire site. I will also do a mechanism where you can request access to the website when you join the mailing list. There's no content so no rush to have access unless you want to work on site structure or begin putting backbone information in place this weekend. Barbara On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Judy Madnick via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > I was kind of hoping that we could move to something other than > rootsweb because of the "text only" limitation. -- Barbara Zanzig TMG-REFUGEES list admin *http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/TMG-REFUGEES.html <http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/TMG-REFUGEES.html>* admin email: *TMG-REFUGEES-admin@rootsweb.com <TMG-REFUGEES-admin@rootsweb.com>*

One of my motivations for investigating ways of--let's say having a clean export from TMG, is the variety of services that are now available for comparing my data to records to suggest new documentation and/or family members. Each of the big data services seems to have its own format and its own preferred contact app, such as: Ancestry has FamilyTreeMaker FamilySearch has a variety, including RootsMagic, Legacy, Reunion and MacFamilyTree Mocavo has--not sure MyHeritage has its own app plus there are the DNA services, and I don't know what FindMyPast or PlaceMyPast like the best. Each one of these seems to have a *different* app to compare my local data to their records. Has anyone looked at what it takes to maintain a genealogical data file in such a way that you can take advantage of any or all data services? I'm thinking that it's a squeaky-clean GEDcom that can be imported and exported from the various helper apps at will, but I'm just starting to investigate it. -- Barbara Zanzig Kirkland, WA Zanzig one name study: http://www.zanziggenealogy.info/ZanzigStudy/index.htm

We choose whether or not to export it using TMG's options. Both Rootsweb and Legacy have methods of excluding data but I'm not sure how they recognize TMG's exported exclusions. On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 7:43 AM, Judy Madnick via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com > wrote: > Just curious -- what happens to data we have "excluded" in TMG when > our data is imported into other programs? > > -- Barbara Zanzig Kirkland, WA Zanzig one name study: http://www.zanziggenealogy.info/ZanzigStudy/index.htm

I won't be making a change before early next year. I want to see what the other vendors have to offer before making a final decision. I'm curious though, as to why you find Legacy a better fit than Roots Magic. Sheila Altenbernd -----Original Message----- From: karenhappuch via Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2014 3:31 PM To: tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] working on direct import from TMG to Legacy That's good news. I do so far prefer Legacy over RootsMagic. The two programs do come out about even on my testing with one being a bit better on some features and a bit poorer on another. The direct import is too late for me since I'm well into cleanup on Legacy. Barbara S. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Levergood via" <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> To: "TMG-REFUGEES Listserv" <TMG-REFUGEES@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2014 11:00 AM Subject: [TMG-REFUGEES] working on direct import from TMG to Legacy > > > Hi folks, > > Quite coincidentally, I was given permission from Sherry at Legacy Family > Tree to relay that their programmers are working on a direct import from > TMG to Legacy. > > > I have no other information than that and I haven't seen an official > announcement about it. > > Barbara > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > *** To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

That's good news. I do so far prefer Legacy over RootsMagic. The two programs do come out about even on my testing with one being a bit better on some features and a bit poorer on another. The direct import is too late for me since I'm well into cleanup on Legacy. Barbara S. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Levergood via" <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> To: "TMG-REFUGEES Listserv" <TMG-REFUGEES@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2014 11:00 AM Subject: [TMG-REFUGEES] working on direct import from TMG to Legacy > > > Hi folks, > > Quite coincidentally, I was given permission from Sherry at Legacy Family > Tree to relay that their programmers are working on a direct import from > TMG to Legacy. > > > I have no other information than that and I haven't seen an official > announcement about it. > > Barbara > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi folks, Quite coincidentally, I was given permission from Sherry at Legacy Family Tree to relay that their programmers are working on a direct import from TMG to Legacy. I have no other information than that and I haven't seen an official announcement about it. Barbara

Barb, In addition to posting these questions here, I would recommend posting them to the Legacy and RootsMagic mailing lists. Current users of the software may have some suggestions. The queries might also encourage the developers to expand what their software can do. Sheila altenbernd -----Original Message----- From: karenhappuch via Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2014 4:47 PM To: tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com Subject: [TMG-REFUGEES] Flags and focus groups I make much use of flags and focus groups in TMG. This is an area where they other program's features are either very weak or non-existent. Where I am: I've Gedcomed my main database to both Legacy and Rootsmagic. Yes, this was premature, but I wasn't expecting the upcoming TMG 9.04. By the time it was announced, I was well into Legacy cleanup. I've done less with Rootsmagic and plan to do a new Gedcom import after 9.04. RootsMagic has no flags. Legacy has "tagging" which is which is flagging, but is limited to 9 "tags" which on have on/off settings. I ran out of those real fast. Both programs have focus groups which RootsMagic calls "Named Groups". These don't appear to be nearly as easy to set up as TMG and ther usefulness appears to be much less. Legacy as a 9 group limit. I currently have 64 in TMG although some of those are no longer used. Any ideas how we work around these limitations? Barbara S. *** To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

To follow up with a bit more detail to bring some closure to the issue of the order of marriages in imports from GEDCOM. I redid the experiment described below in RM and found that the import was in the correct chronological order even if the person-IDs were in a different order. That is, the order of the imported marriages in RM is based on the year of marriage or the sort date of the marriage, not on the person-IDs. I repeated the test in Legacy, Deluxe v. 8.0.0.439, importing from GEDCOM. The result is similar to RM, except that the new marriages are added AFTER the marriages imported from TMG. In the help system, "Spouse List" and “How to Rearrange Order of Spouses and Children” explain how to reorder the spouses; see also "How Legacy Inserts People and Events into Chronological Order" and "Sort Children, Marriages, and Events". See also: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/legacy/2004-08/1091828076. Barbara On 9/5/2014 8:07 PM, Barbara Levergood via wrote: > Thanks for pointing out this problem in RootsMagic, Jerry. > > I did an experiment with marriages. In my TMG database, George married 3 > times to: > TMG ID 4, Anna, m. sortdate before 1815 > TMG ID 5, Mary, m. 15 Jun 1823 > TMG ID 6, Sarah, m. sortdate before 1 Jun 1850 > > After import from TMG into a previous trial version of RM, the three > marriages sort in the correct order in RM's displays and in the > narrative report. That is a good result. However, the sort date of the 2 > marriages that lacked an event date in TMG incorrectly appears in RM as > both the sort date and the event date. > > I then added 3 new marriages in RM (v. 6.3.1.4). The marriages appear in > the correct order in the edit person display. However, in the narrative > descendant report, the new marriages incorrectly all appear before the > TMG-vintage marriages and they appear in the order in which I entered > the people (Nellie, Millie, Emma), not in chronological order of the > year of marriage: > > Nellie, m. 1843 > Millie, m. 1844 > Emma, m. 1842 > TMG ID 4, Anna, m. sortdate before 1815 > TMG ID 5, Mary, m. 15 Jun 1823 > TMG ID 6, Sarah, m. sortdate before 1 Jun 1850 > > In the RM Help system there are articles explaining how spouses and > children can be re-ordered by hand ("Arranging the order of spouses", > "Arranging the order of children"). I did not find a way to order them > chronologically automatically throughout the database. > > Barbara > > > > > On 9/5/2014 5:17 PM, Jerry Bryan via wrote: >>> Now, to more interesting stuff – I noticed in playing with some charts, >>> that multiple marriages often weren’t displaying in >>> date order, and children weren’t showing in birthdate order. FH Support >>> eventually owned up to the problem: FH displays >>> stuff in the order they were CREATED in the original sending program >>> (guess in the order they are in the GEDCOM file, i.e. >>> in individual’s record-ID order) – even though it shows the events (Facts) >>> in its Facts list for an individual in date order. >> This is also a problem in RootsMagic, and RootsMagic users have been >> complaining about it for years to no avail. I wonder if RootsMagic will be >> any more responsive to émigrés from TMG than they have been to native RM >> users. >> >> Jerry -- Barbara Levergood levergood@att.net

> RootsMagic has no flags. Legacy has "tagging" which is which is flagging, > but is limited to 9 "tags" > which on have on/off settings. I ran out of those real fast. Unless I'm missing something obvious, RM does have one flag. It's called the Living flag and it's used for privatization of things like Web sites and GEDCOM exports. But there are certainly no user defined flags. Many users get around this with user defined facts that are defined in such a way that they don't appear in reports. Such user defined facts can be queried in all kinds of useful ways. > Both programs have focus groups which RootsMagic calls "Named Groups". > These don't appear to be nearly > as easy to set up as TMG and ther usefulness appears to be much less. > Legacy as a 9 group limit. I currently > have 64 in TMG although some of those are no longer used. There is no limit on the number of Named Groups in RM. I don't know how easy focus groups are to set up in TMG. I find Named Groups quite easy to set up in RM. The complaint from RM users is not that Named Groups are hard to set up. The complaint is that they are static. If you define a Named Group that's all the descendants of John Doe or for everybody born after 1910 in Boondock County or that sort of thing (very easy to do), and then if you add a new descendant of John Doe or a new person who was born after 1910 in Boondock County, then the new person is not in the Named Group for John Doe descendants or for people born after 1910 in Boondock County, respectively. RM users have been asking for years that RM Named Groups become dynamic. Jerry

Hi Barbara Full disclosure: I am just learning Legacy too. Not knowing how you use TMG flags, I don't know whether this could give you the functionality you need, and you may have already tried this, but I will throw it out there anyway... This work-around would only be suitable for TMG Flags whose values can be set automatically. The equivalent in TMG would be to filter the Project Explorer to replicate the conditions on the Flag's value, save the filter condition, and then reload the saved filter as needed and optionally modify it. One way to do that in Legacy is to use Search/Find/Detailed search (or one of the other options). The searches can be saved and loaded later. So, you could save a search that replicates the conditions on the TMG flag's value and load it when needed. You could also modify the saved search by ANDing or ORing in conditions based on events or actual Tags. Some of the other options under Search/Find may be similar to types of conditions that you have encoded in TMG flags, e.g. candidates for being in a given Census. One nice thing about Search/Find is that you can "Create list". This produces a Search list with something like the functionality of a filtered Project Explorer. You can click on a name and see on the right the name and BBDB (under "Edit") and the list of Events (under "Events"), both editable. Even after you close the resulting Search list, you can do Search/Find next or Search/Find previous to step through the list or you can return to it under Search/Search list. What I haven't figured out how to do is to clear the Search list. I haven't seen any limits on the number of searches you can save. I hope this is helpful. Barbara On 9/7/2014 5:47 PM, karenhappuch via wrote: > I make much use of flags and focus groups in TMG. This is an area where they other program's features are either very weak or non-existent. > > Where I am: I've Gedcomed my main database to both Legacy and Rootsmagic. Yes, this was premature, but I wasn't expecting the upcoming TMG 9.04. By the time it was announced, I was well into Legacy cleanup. I've done less with Rootsmagic and plan to do a new Gedcom import after 9.04. > > RootsMagic has no flags. Legacy has "tagging" which is which is flagging, but is limited to 9 "tags" which on have on/off settings. I ran out of those real fast. > > Both programs have focus groups which RootsMagic calls "Named Groups". These don't appear to be nearly as easy to set up as TMG and ther usefulness appears to be much less. Legacy as a 9 group limit. I currently have 64 in TMG although some of those are no longer used. > > Any ideas how we work around these limitations? > > Barbara S. > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Barbara Levergood levergood@att.net

> That is not absolutely true. Within RootsMagic, one can, for example, > create a new Master Source based on a custom source template and merge a > Source based on another template into it. As long as the two source > templates have matching field names for non-empty fields in the original > source and these field names are at the same levels (Master or Citation), > nothing is lost. Again, for the daring, much more powerful and faster > things can be done using SQLite queries. And there is promise of a source > conversion facility someday... Well, I guess I have to stand corrected. I hadn't thought of the Merge Source trick as a way to change source templates. I've always just done it with SQLite. Jerry

I was kind of hoping that we could move to something other than rootsweb because of the "text only" limitation. My email program sends out HTML messages only, so I have to go to the Web anytime I want to post a message to a rootsweb group. That's why I don't post much...even though there are times that I would love to express my opinion. I get too much email to constantly go to the Web to post. Rootsweb lists may be "easy to find and the subscription process is easy," but for me (and perhaps others depending on how they access their email) it's very inconvenient. JMO...and although at this point I'm staying with TMG, I *am* reading all the messages in the "refugees" group and look forward to making an intelligent decision regarding the possibility of moving to a new program. Judy Madnick Albany, NY On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 4:47 PM, karenhappuch via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > >> We are new enough we could switch over to a Google group/mailing list,... > You can't switch the list to a Google mail list. You could set up a Google > mail list, but the Rootsweb TMG-Refugees list would continue to exist. > Those who wished could subscribe to the new list, but you shouldn't that do > that for them. (My understandig as a list admin is that we aren't supposed > to use names or emails for anything other than the Rootsweb list.) > > While the Google list has worked well for SS, it probably wouldn't for our > purposes. We are going to (hopefully) get more people on this list as > TMGers start moving to another program. Rootsweb lists are easy to find and > the subscription process is easy. We'll get and keep more people is we > stick with Rootsweb. > > Barbara S. > > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I make much use of flags and focus groups in TMG. This is an area where they other program's features are either very weak or non-existent. Where I am: I've Gedcomed my main database to both Legacy and Rootsmagic. Yes, this was premature, but I wasn't expecting the upcoming TMG 9.04. By the time it was announced, I was well into Legacy cleanup. I've done less with Rootsmagic and plan to do a new Gedcom import after 9.04. RootsMagic has no flags. Legacy has "tagging" which is which is flagging, but is limited to 9 "tags" which on have on/off settings. I ran out of those real fast. Both programs have focus groups which RootsMagic calls "Named Groups". These don't appear to be nearly as easy to set up as TMG and ther usefulness appears to be much less. Legacy as a 9 group limit. I currently have 64 in TMG although some of those are no longer used. Any ideas how we work around these limitations? Barbara S.

While I have no objection to the website or discussion of the website, I'd like to see more interaction and discussion on this list. Right now I have some specific questions and concerns about if/how some TMG features are/aren't available in Legacy and RootsMagic. I'm not a patient person and don't want to wait days or weeks or months until the feature is added to the website. Most likely there are others like me who want ongoing use discussions such as we have on the TMG-L. Barbara S.

> We are new enough we could switch over to a Google group/mailing list,... You can't switch the list to a Google mail list. You could set up a Google mail list, but the Rootsweb TMG-Refugees list would continue to exist. Those who wished could subscribe to the new list, but you shouldn't that do that for them. (My understandig as a list admin is that we aren't supposed to use names or emails for anything other than the Rootsweb list.) While the Google list has worked well for SS, it probably wouldn't for our purposes. We are going to (hopefully) get more people on this list as TMGers start moving to another program. Rootsweb lists are easy to find and the subscription process is easy. We'll get and keep more people is we stick with Rootsweb. Barbara S.

Subscribe? Where is this done? Once we "subscribe" will we be able to make comments and make new posts? Tom D -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Zanzig via Sent: Saturday, September 6, 2014 11:26 PM To: tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com Subject: [TMG-REFUGEES] Administrivia: website update ... You can now subscribe to the activity on the site. Be aware that this is a prototype and as the site design evolves, I may have to reinitialize subscription lists--be prepared for a little disruption while we work out the basics. ... Barbara Zanzig

Agree with Tom, on both counts - great work. Theme looks fine to me. I guess the layout can always be changed as things evolve, so we shouldn't be thinking its 'locked-in' - there will no doubt be stuff happening that we will wish to cover, that we can't yet predict.. Don F -----Original Message----- From: tmg-refugees-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:tmg-refugees-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tom via Sent: Saturday, 6 September 2014 10:36 PM To: TMG-REFUGEES@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] Administrivia re. group web site Good morning, Barbara So far, so good! A most excellent job. :) The only thing I have for comment so far is about the left column. Where it shows "Genealogy Software News", "Announcement/blog Sample Page" and "Software Comparison" is there a way to indent "...Software News", "...Sample Page" and ...Comparison" so they don't appear as if they were separate items? Also, can the width of this column be expanded just a tad so that the word "...blog..." in "Announcement/blog" appears in entirety? Right now the word "...blog..." is concatenated on my screen. Hm-m-m-m, a lot of words there for something very minor. Tom D -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Zanzig via Sent: Saturday, September 6, 2014 7:44 AM To: TMG-REFUGEES@rootsweb.com Subject: [TMG-REFUGEES] Administrivia re. group web site I've mocked up a group Google site. I've set it currently allow access by giving you the address, to get your feedback on the site structure. For some of you newer folks this was a discussion about a week ago about how to preserve the information we're collecting. After we get past this initial site design stage, we will need to go to a by-invitation system during the site construction. There seems to be either world access, access by link, or individual named access, and it's only in the last category that I can give others permissions to add information. Otherwise as owner I'll be the one making all changes, and I don't want that (nor do you). What I'd like right now is a few people to look the site over and offer design suggestions, particularly other pages and/or page hierarchies that are needed. Also tell me if it's easy to read--the low-contrast theme I put on it may need to be changed. If someone would like to take building the site as a project, I'd be happy to give you edit access to it. Email me privately please. https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/ -- Barbara Zanzig TMG-REFUGEES list admin http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/TMG-REFUGEES.ht ml admin email: TMG-REFUGEES-admin@rootsweb.com *** To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message *** To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There are two types of subscription. One I mentioned in the earlier post, subscribing to recent activity. This is an RSS feed that you subscribe to in your normal RSS reader. Find the Recent Activity page in the site sidebar--there's a button on the page. It's a canned thing; it appeared automagically when I added a recent activity gadget in the site design. Site subscription will happen when I change the site over to allow others to post. The Google Sites permission system is trifold: - anyone can read, - anyone with the site URL can read, or - anyone possessing a specific email can read (and write if I set that up.) This is what I'm calling "site subscription". Right now we are on the middle level. The first two levels require the owner (me) to do all the content. I wish I could do a combo, but it doesn't seem to work like that. I'm investigating methods of gatewaying the site and the mailing list so information on one gets to the other, signup is simple, and so on. The specific-email level will require me to add each new subscriber to the site permissions--but will also let me set up sitewide or page by page write permissions. My thought is that we may have people interested in different areas on the site, who may want to work on, say, GEDcom but not on software news (just as an example.) I'm intending to give anyone who asks (or perhaps every email on the REFUGEES list) read permission, and anyone who's expressed an interest in adding content write permission. I want to be liberal about access without inviting griefing problems. Expect the switchover in a few days, as soon as the basic structure is stable and the access methods make sense. We are new enough we could switch over to a Google group/mailing list, which would allow tighter integration between the mailing list and the website (I could give read access to the group easily). SS-L has been run as a Google list successfully for several years. Does anyone have any comments on this idea? It may even mean we could ditch the website and just use a group. Barbara On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Tom via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Subscribe? Where is this done? Once we "subscribe" will we be able to make > comments and make new posts? > > Tom D > > -----Original Message----- > From: Barbara Zanzig via > Sent: Saturday, September 6, 2014 11:26 PM > To: tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com > Subject: [TMG-REFUGEES] Administrivia: website update > > ... > You can now subscribe to the activity on the site. Be aware that this is a > prototype and as the site design evolves, I may have to reinitialize > subscription lists--be prepared for a little disruption while we work out > the basics. > ... > Barbara Zanzig > > -- Barbara Zanzig TMG-REFUGEES list admin *http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/TMG-REFUGEES.html <http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/TMG-REFUGEES.html>* admin email: *TMG-REFUGEES-admin@rootsweb.com <TMG-REFUGEES-admin@rootsweb.com>*