Hi Jerry, Do you really think we have five to ten years to use TMG? If this is true, I find this somewhat hopeful. Would you mind sharing with us some of your thoughts on why you think we have this long? I would find that very helpful. Thanks. Frankie In a message dated 9/24/2014 8:45:19 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com writes: > Of course, if I need to keep TMG running anyway, I might just as well > continue to use it for everything. It’s a tough decision. You probably have 5 or 10 years before it happens, but TMG *will* quit working on new computers at some point. Jerry *** To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Copy fact is a much asked for feature in RM that doesn't exist. My personal opinion is that the developers felt that they had addressed this need when they introduced shared facts into RM. That have never stated as such, so this truly is just speculation on my part. Copy person really isn't much of an asked for feature in RM, and it doesn't exist in any direct fashion. You can fake it as follows. Create a new, empty, and temporary database. Drag and drop a person from your main database to the temporary database, and then drag and drop the same person back into your main database. This will create a second instance of the person in the main database. Jerry > I looked in RM but didn't find a repeat key (like our beloved F3) or a > copy fact or copy person feature. I did find shortcut keys and that > facts can be customized in the Add Person form, much as in TMG. Did I > miss any features in RM designed for efficient data entry?

> Of course, if I need to keep TMG running anyway, I might just as well > continue to use it for everything. It’s a tough decision. You probably have 5 or 10 years before it happens, but TMG *will* quit working on new computers at some point. Jerry

I'm a big fan of RM, so I don't want to come across as an RM basher. Having said that, the general clickiness of RM in general and the lack of good screens for bulk data entry in particular are both problems for the more serious and experienced RM users. At least one user reports on the RM forums that he does bulk data entry into Excel and then has a program that converts the Excel data into simple GEDCOM for bulk import into RM. I think if I were in your situation, I would probably create a new and empty TMG database, do your the bulk data entry into TMG, and then do a direct import from your new TMG database into RM. Under these circumstances you might or might not bother with handling your sentence templates and sources and that sort of thing on the TMG side of the house, but rather you might handle them on the RM side of the house. In any case, there would be no point in entering anything on the TMG side of the house that would require any kind of major cleanup on the RM side of the house. Jerry

Barbara, > I looked in RM but didn't find a repeat key (like our beloved F3) or a copy fact or copy person feature. I did find shortcut keys and that facts can be customized in the Add Person form, much as in TMG. Did I miss any features in RM designed for efficient data entry? There are some tools. Tom could list these better than me. The usual copy, paste, cut options. Citations can be copied (memorize) and pasted to different facts. You have many options to drag and drop people between two open databases... not just individuals but clusters of people as well. There are options in many fields to facilitate selection from existing data types. And there are a huge number of keyboard shortcuts. If you poke around in Help, you'll find things that I missed. Jim

I looked in RM but didn't find a repeat key (like our beloved F3) or a copy fact or copy person feature. I did find shortcut keys and that facts can be customized in the Add Person form, much as in TMG. Did I miss any features in RM designed for efficient data entry? On 9/23/2014 2:58 PM, Tom Holden via wrote: > You are right about RM. Much clicking for that purpose. It will be > difficult to find the one-size-fits-all solution. That's why data > interchange compatibility is so important and why, given that it is still > the lingua franca among genealogy databases, GEDCOM support is still vital > and that an open, accessible database is a virtue. So that special things > like bulk data collection, modification and outputs not available in your > working software can be made possible. Maybe TMG is the best for now at > this kind of data entry. Even if you migrate to something else as your main > database system, that does not mean you have to stop using TMG for special > things. Of course, how well that can work out depends very much on what > happens in transferring the data. Maybe, for this task, GEDCOM from TMG is > good enough or maybe direct import into a software that supports it is also > good enough. > > Tom > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Glenn Cox via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> > wrote: > >> One of the things I value in TMG is the "Add New Family" spreadsheet. For a >> one-place study I'm doing, I'm entering hundreds of families from the >> census >> and being able to enter an entire family at one time without a whole lot of >> typing and mousing has been a lifesaver. I don't see a similar family entry >> mode in RM or LFT (I just started playing with the free versions -- maybe >> I'm missing something). There's an add-on for Family Historian, "Ancestral >> Sources", that might help, but if I'm understanding it correctly, you still >> enter each family member as an individual. Has anyone found another program >> with bulk family data entry similar to TMG? >> >> *** >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the message subject and body. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Barbara Levergood levergood@att.net

I added "Efficient data entry" to our list of important functionalities and started a new page on that topic. As you experiment with other software, feel free to add features that assist in efficient data entry to that page, add it as a comment, or post it on this list. https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/software-comparison/efficient-data-entry (Ask the List Admin if you would like access.) Barbara On 9/23/2014 1:54 PM, Glenn Cox via wrote: > One of the things I value in TMG is the "Add New Family" spreadsheet. For a > one-place study I'm doing, I'm entering hundreds of families from the census > and being able to enter an entire family at one time without a whole lot of > typing and mousing has been a lifesaver. I don't see a similar family entry > mode in RM or LFT (I just started playing with the free versions -- maybe > I'm missing something). There's an add-on for Family Historian, "Ancestral > Sources", that might help, but if I'm understanding it correctly, you still > enter each family member as an individual. Has anyone found another program > with bulk family data entry similar to TMG? > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Barbara Levergood levergood@att.net

Thanks for the info, Tom. As you said, keeping TMG for specialty purposes is an option. I could set up a off-line Windows 7 or 8 system to host TMG and use GEDCOM or direct import to pass info to RM or something else. Of course, if I need to keep TMG running anyway, I might just as well continue to use it for everything. It’s a tough decision. Thankfully, we have some time to see what evolves. Glenn From: Tom Holden [mailto:ve3meo@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 1:58 PM To: glenncox@lcdc.com; tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] Family entry mode You are right about RM. Much clicking for that purpose. It will be difficult to find the one-size-fits-all solution. That's why data interchange compatibility is so important and why, given that it is still the lingua franca among genealogy databases, GEDCOM support is still vital and that an open, accessible database is a virtue. So that special things like bulk data collection, modification and outputs not available in your working software can be made possible. Maybe TMG is the best for now at this kind of data entry. Even if you migrate to something else as your main database system, that does not mean you have to stop using TMG for special things. Of course, how well that can work out depends very much on what happens in transferring the data. Maybe, for this task, GEDCOM from TMG is good enough or maybe direct import into a software that supports it is also good enough. Tom On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Glenn Cox via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: One of the things I value in TMG is the "Add New Family" spreadsheet. For a one-place study I'm doing, I'm entering hundreds of families from the census and being able to enter an entire family at one time without a whole lot of typing and mousing has been a lifesaver. I don't see a similar family entry mode in RM or LFT (I just started playing with the free versions -- maybe I'm missing something). There's an add-on for Family Historian, "Ancestral Sources", that might help, but if I'm understanding it correctly, you still enter each family member as an individual. Has anyone found another program with bulk family data entry similar to TMG? *** To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

You are right about RM. Much clicking for that purpose. It will be difficult to find the one-size-fits-all solution. That's why data interchange compatibility is so important and why, given that it is still the lingua franca among genealogy databases, GEDCOM support is still vital and that an open, accessible database is a virtue. So that special things like bulk data collection, modification and outputs not available in your working software can be made possible. Maybe TMG is the best for now at this kind of data entry. Even if you migrate to something else as your main database system, that does not mean you have to stop using TMG for special things. Of course, how well that can work out depends very much on what happens in transferring the data. Maybe, for this task, GEDCOM from TMG is good enough or maybe direct import into a software that supports it is also good enough. Tom On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Glenn Cox via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > One of the things I value in TMG is the "Add New Family" spreadsheet. For a > one-place study I'm doing, I'm entering hundreds of families from the > census > and being able to enter an entire family at one time without a whole lot of > typing and mousing has been a lifesaver. I don't see a similar family entry > mode in RM or LFT (I just started playing with the free versions -- maybe > I'm missing something). There's an add-on for Family Historian, "Ancestral > Sources", that might help, but if I'm understanding it correctly, you still > enter each family member as an individual. Has anyone found another program > with bulk family data entry similar to TMG? > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

One of the things I value in TMG is the "Add New Family" spreadsheet. For a one-place study I'm doing, I'm entering hundreds of families from the census and being able to enter an entire family at one time without a whole lot of typing and mousing has been a lifesaver. I don't see a similar family entry mode in RM or LFT (I just started playing with the free versions -- maybe I'm missing something). There's an add-on for Family Historian, "Ancestral Sources", that might help, but if I'm understanding it correctly, you still enter each family member as an individual. Has anyone found another program with bulk family data entry similar to TMG?

>>>On Monday, 22 September 2014 5:03 AM Tom Holden via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: >>>..................... >>> - post problem/bug reports at http://support.rootsmagic.com/anonymous_requests/new >>>I'm hopeful that the RootsMagician will be persuaded to find the resources to automate this parsing and mapping on import. >>> Meanwhile, I am conceiving a SQLite procedure which might be able to do it after import. Tom ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Great idea Tom, but I'm not hopeful they will invest that sort of effort - it might be a step too far for existing RM users to assimilate as well. But I've reported a couple of bugs and issues with the import to the link you gave - will see what happens. Nobody else seems to have noticed that the import process makes no attempt to handle Citation Sureties, even though some sort of mapping to RM 'Proof' should have been possible? OK, it only has 3 categories, but they could at least try.... As far as I'm concerned, the current RM sentence import process creates so much rubbish and drops so much detail that it is totally unusable. And even if they fixed that (a major task) I still see RM's poor media handling, dreadful charting and reports, lack of Flags as total show-stoppers - it will never be a viable transfer product for me without major development. Don Ferguson

I've created an interim solution to the split Citation Details problem, described at: http://sqlitetoolsforrootsmagic.wikispaces.com/TMG-RootsMagic+Split+Citation+Details Tom > On Sep 21, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Tom Holden <ve3meo@gmail.com> wrote: > ... > > I have just published a page on the differences in sentence template languages and formatting codes which may be of interest to TMG-RootsMagic explorers, especially those technically inclined. It's at: > > http://sqlitetoolsforrootsmagic.wikispaces.com/TMG-RootsMagic+Sentence+Variables+%26+Format+Codes > > An issue which I'm sure many will detect, but surprisingly was absent from the 5000 person project, is that sentences for sources with split Citation Detail (CD1, CD2,..) do not contain any of the Citation Detail. The full value is there in the [CD] field but the sentence templates use [CD1] etc, not [CD]. A fix is to manually edit the Source Template sentence templates to use [CD] in the sentences - there are only 3 or 4 such source templates in the Sample Project - however that changes the order and lengthens the Short Footnote and the || separator remains in the output. A much better result is to add [CD1] et al fields to the source template field definitions and then edit each citation to separate the pieces out of [CD] into the new fields. Unfortunately, every citation needs to be edited - for some users this may number in the thousands or even tens of thousands. > > I'm hopeful that the RootsMagician will be persuaded to find the resources to automate this parsing and mapping on import. Meanwhile, I am conceiving a SQLite procedure which might be able to do it after import. > > Tom > >> On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Jim Byram via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: >> Thanks, Barbara. >> >> Two omissions in the import have been found so far... the place LatLong >> value and the place comments. I've reported those. >> >> The RootsMagic import needs the project and exhibits in their folders. It >> will not import from a TMG .SQZ backup file. >> >> The TMG backup is a ZIP file. If necessary, you can always change the >> filetype to ZIP and drag the project and exhibits folders out of a backup to >> the appropriate locations. >> >> Jim >> >> *** >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

This is a re-post I made to TMG-L: I don't know to what extent RootsMagic personnel will monitor the TMG-L for reports on direct import experiences and problems so I would encourage you to: - post problem/bug reports at http://support.rootsmagic.com/anonymous_requests/new (although the linking page says "We offer free online technical support for paid customers") OR - join the RootsMagic Forums at http://forums.rootsmagic.com/ and post to RootsMagic 6 > Issues with tags for "TMG" "import" RM staffer Renee Zamora monitors both and manages a tracking system for bugs and enhancement requests. While I participated with Jim in testing direct import before its release, I am but a novice with TMG and tested imports from the Sample Project and from a 5000 person Project loaned by a long-time TMG user. So I cannot readily answer advanced TMG user questions that involve complex usage of its features. I have just published a page on the differences in sentence template languages and formatting codes which may be of interest to TMG-RootsMagic explorers, especially those technically inclined. It's at: http://sqlitetoolsforrootsmagic.wikispaces.com/TMG-RootsMagic+Sentence+Variables+%26+Format+Codes An issue which I'm sure many will detect, but surprisingly was absent from the 5000 person project, is that sentences for sources with split Citation Detail (CD1, CD2,..) do not contain any of the Citation Detail. The full value is there in the [CD] field but the sentence templates use [CD1] etc, not [CD]. A fix is to manually edit the Source Template sentence templates to use [CD] in the sentences - there are only 3 or 4 such source templates in the Sample Project - however that changes the order and lengthens the Short Footnote and the || separator remains in the output. A much better result is to add [CD1] et al fields to the source template field definitions and then edit each citation to separate the pieces out of [CD] into the new fields. Unfortunately, every citation needs to be edited - for some users this may number in the thousands or even tens of thousands. I'm hopeful that the RootsMagician will be persuaded to find the resources to automate this parsing and mapping on import. Meanwhile, I am conceiving a SQLite procedure which might be able to do it after import. Tom On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Jim Byram via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Thanks, Barbara. > > Two omissions in the import have been found so far... the place LatLong > value and the place comments. I've reported those. > > The RootsMagic import needs the project and exhibits in their folders. It > will not import from a TMG .SQZ backup file. > > The TMG backup is a ZIP file. If necessary, you can always change the > filetype to ZIP and drag the project and exhibits folders out of a backup > to > the appropriate locations. > > Jim > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks, Barbara. Two omissions in the import have been found so far... the place LatLong value and the place comments. I've reported those. The RootsMagic import needs the project and exhibits in their folders. It will not import from a TMG .SQZ backup file. The TMG backup is a ZIP file. If necessary, you can always change the filetype to ZIP and drag the project and exhibits folders out of a backup to the appropriate locations. Jim

As Tom Holden posted in the News section of our wiki, RootsMagic has released its direct import from TMG, RM version 6.3.2.0, 20 September 2014. http://forums.rootsmagic.com/index.php?/topic/11972-rootsmagic-6-update-history/ If you already have RM installed, on starting it, you should be notified that a new version is available. You can upgrade from there. I was able to upgrade from my (paid) version 6.3.1.4 to this one without additional payment. (Can someone who has not purchased RM verify that the trial version of RM includes the direct import?) Upon direct import of a TMG file, you will get a window titled "TMG Import Information". There is a link to "a document with ideas and information to get the best results when importing from TMG", including essential sections on how to do data clean-up before and after import. Be sure to get that document! It was written, in part, by Jim Byram, who assisted RootsMagic in creating the direct import. The document is also available from http://files.rootsmagic.com/TMGDoc.pdf Barbara L. TMG-REFUGEES wiki: https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/home Please ask the ListAdmin if you need access to it. -- Barbara Levergood levergood@att.net

Barbara, I love the new look for the Functionalities page! The categories are really helpful and make it much less confusing when reading through the list. Excellent job, Tom Dunaway -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Levergood via Sent: Friday, September 19, 2014 7:20 PM To: tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] functionalities Hi all, I *think* the functionalities list is now up to date. I rearranged and categorized the items to make the list a bit less overwhelming. Take a look and see if you are inspired to add more functionalities. We can refine and wordsmith the list once it stabilizes. The list is at https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/software-comparison/functionalities Ask the List Admin if you would like access. Thanks to you all for your thoughtful input! Barbara On 9/18/2014 7:22 PM, Barbara Levergood via wrote: > We have talked about many functionalities that are important to one or > another of us as we look at alternatives to TMG. I took the liberty of > compiling a list of basic functionalities that are important to me, > things that already appear on the website, and things that have been > mentioned on TMG-REFUGEES. The list appears on the website at Software‎ > > ‎Software Comparison‎ > ‎Functionalities. > > Compiling the list was a very useful exercise for me because it helped > me to review and focus on my own priorities as I evaluate alternative > software. It reminds me how difficult the transition we are facing will > be over the next months and years, but it also reminds me how valuable > it is to have like-minded people discussing the same issues I am > thinking about! > > What functionalities are important to you and why? > > Barbara L. > -- Barbara Levergood levergood@att.net *** To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi all, I *think* the functionalities list is now up to date. I rearranged and categorized the items to make the list a bit less overwhelming. Take a look and see if you are inspired to add more functionalities. We can refine and wordsmith the list once it stabilizes. The list is at https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/software-comparison/functionalities Ask the List Admin if you would like access. Thanks to you all for your thoughtful input! Barbara On 9/18/2014 7:22 PM, Barbara Levergood via wrote: > We have talked about many functionalities that are important to one or > another of us as we look at alternatives to TMG. I took the liberty of > compiling a list of basic functionalities that are important to me, > things that already appear on the website, and things that have been > mentioned on TMG-REFUGEES. The list appears on the website at Software‎ > > ‎Software Comparison‎ > ‎Functionalities. > > Compiling the list was a very useful exercise for me because it helped > me to review and focus on my own priorities as I evaluate alternative > software. It reminds me how difficult the transition we are facing will > be over the next months and years, but it also reminds me how valuable > it is to have like-minded people discussing the same issues I am > thinking about! > > What functionalities are important to you and why? > > Barbara L. > -- Barbara Levergood levergood@att.net

Looks great. Thanks for your efforts. Sent from my Boost Mobile phone. ------ Original message------ From: Barbara Levergood via Date: Fri, 9/19/2014 6:22 PM To: tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com; Subject:Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] functionalities Hi all, I *think* the functionalities list is now up to date. I rearranged and categorized the items to make the list a bit less overwhelming. Take a look and see if you are inspired to add more functionalities. We can refine and wordsmith the list once it stabilizes. The list is at https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/software-comparison/function alities Ask the List Admin if you would like access. Thanks to you all for your thoughtful input! Barbara On 9/18/2014 7:22 PM, Barbara Levergood via wrote: > We have talked about many functionalities that are important to one or > another of us as we look at alternatives to TMG. I took the liberty of > compiling a list of basic functionalities that are important to me, > things that already appear on the website, and things that have been > mentioned on TMG-REFUGEES. The list appears on the website at Software‎ > > ‎Software Comparison‎ > ‎Functionalities. > > Compiling the list was a very useful exercise for me because it helped > me to review and focus on my own priorities as I evaluate alternative > software. It reminds me how difficult the transition we are facing will > be over the next months and years, but it also reminds me how valuable > it is to have like-minded people discussing the same issues I am > thinking about! > > What functionalities are important to you and why? > > Barbara L. > -- Barbara Levergood levergood@att.net *** To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@root sweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@root sweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

So was I supposed to type in the comments or send an email? I can't figure out how to edit the page proper..... Julie

Hi Julie, If you can and want to edit the website page, that is fine. A posting to TMG-REFUGEES is also fine, and I will add it on the website. Whatever you feel comfortable with. BTW, I wanted to ask you ... you had mentioned being a heavy user of customized sentences. Is that a functionality that you are looking for in other software that you would like to include in our list of functionalities? Barbara L. On Friday, September 19, 2014 1:13 PM, Julie Rosales via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: So was I supposed to type in the comments or send an email? I can't figure out how to edit the page proper..... Julie *** To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message