And this was intended to go to the List, too! ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Tom Holden <ve3meo@gmail.com> Date: Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] RM SQLite renumber RIN/TMG_ID To: LornaMoa <lornamoa@gmail.com> Lorna, you are doing something that sounds quite awesome and which I confess I don't fully understand, not having done anything with DNA testing, nor logging it in RootsMagic, let alone in TMG and I have never scratched the surface of Second Site. When SS imports from RootsMagic I will start looking at it. Your site looks very well organised. You mention custom two-principal tags as a linking mechanism. RootsMagic only supports spousal two-principal events so some other mechanism would be needed in it. Maybe it is a patriarch-descendant fact with the Principal as Patriarch and each descendant is a witness. But that's just imagining... I think for changing a small number of RINs in a large RM database, I would revise the script so that it does not have to update every row of every table. And, it probably would be best if it were wrapped in an application to check that the desired RIN is an unassigned one, else there could indeed be database corruption. Tom On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 9:58 PM, LornaMoa <lornamoa@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks Tom > >>So you cannot combine two TMG projects with overlapping TMG IDs in a > common RootsMagic database and have all the RINs match all the TMG_IDs. I > wonder if you can even do that in TMG. To keep common RINs, yet keep the > persons separate, they must be in separate databases. << > > Fully understood. > And yes, TMG-IDs are unique within a database but there's nothing stopping > us in TMG from using the same id in another database should we wish too. > > The linked projects I'm talking about are currently in two databases (with > some of the individuals having the same id between the two db) because the > end results required are quite separate and my ingenuity within TMG ran out > when trying to keep them only in one AND to show both real parents and DNA > "parents". > Quite apart from which, many of the dna project participants are of no > interest to my personal research, even if they do turn up as dna matches to > the One Name Study people. > > My main database already contains all of my own family research, PLUS two > one name studies, and I happily produce the separate One Name Study > webpages from my main database using flags and contains 10s of 1000s of > people from many years of research. > But the dna website was a step too far given I needed (well wanted) to > show a tested person both with his actual pedigree and with his DNA lineage. > http://dnasurnames.info if you are at all curious. > > I cheat within the dna database so I can show both sets of "parents" for > selected people. > The ones I show on the haplogroup charts are the dna haplogroup branch > "person", with a "son" being the patriarch of the line associated with the > Y/mtdna value, and the "child" being the tested person. > The latter two are duplicated in the database but linked using custom two > principal tags. > In the Lineages aka Surnames section the duplicated people above show up > with normal family relationships, and usually a link to where else they are > published (linked by TMG-ID and smarts in SSite), eg one name study or my > personal family webpages. > > Yes, a RM Gedcom output to SSite would probably work, but for the above > site, as it currently is configured, only if I can control some of the > RINs/TMG_IDs, hence my question about whether your utility would also work > on one person in isolation to change the RIN as opposed over the whole > database. > > Some year I may well rethink the whole thing, but for now, my energy is > directed elsewhere. > > > Lorna Henderson > http://lornahen.com > > > On 25/09/2014 1:10 p.m., Tom Holden wrote: > >> All that this script does is to replace the imported Record Number with >> the numerical value of the TMG_ID fact. I suppose that you could edit the >> TMG_ID value or add a TMG_ID fact to a new person and rerun the script and >> it would change the RIN to match. BUT RIN must be unique and there is no >> control on the TMG_ID fact to ensure that. >> >> So you cannot combine two TMG projects with overlapping TMG IDs in a >> common RootsMagic database and have all the RINs match all the TMG_IDs. I >> wonder if you can even do that in TMG. To keep common RINs, yet keep the >> persons separate, they must be in separate databases. >> >> John Cardinal is developing Second Site to work with RootsMagic extended >> GEDCOM. Maybe there is a possibility for there to be some mechanism by >> which SS websites from two RootsMagic databases may be interlinked. >> >> Another consideration might be an entirely different approach - why two >> databases? Why two websites? Maybe one database outputting two kinds of >> websites? Or one website with filters or two ways of looking at people? >> Maybe your current solution is predicated on the way things work in TMG and >> Second Site and another solution is more appropriate and even better with >> different platforms. >> >> Tom >> >> On Sep 24, 2014, at 6:47 PM, LornaMoa <lornamoa@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> A question on the >>Replace the RootsMagic RIN with the TMG_ID number << >>> will that work on a specific RIN/TMG_ID? >>> With TMG's ability to assign numbers on input, or renumber a person >>> after input, I use this in my separate but connected DNA project so that >>> the people (several 100s) that are in both the DNA project and in my main >>> project (many thousands), have the same id. >>> Which means in SecondSite I can create (using the flag event facility) >>> automatic links for interested readers to jump between the two websites >>> (dna/family) >>> >>> So whereas at a conversion to RM yes your utility would be great, >>> ongoing use / divergance could cause me some issues (currently still well >>> into the future for these two projects at least so I can still use SSite to >>> generate web pages) >>> >>> Lorna Henderson >>> http://LornaHen.com >>> >>

Caught out by the Reply To trap - this was intended to go to the list... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Tom Holden <ve3meo@gmail.com> Date: Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 11:01 PM Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] RM SQLite renumber RIN/TMG_ID To: Sheila Altenbernd <sheilaxyz1@gmail.com> RootsMagic operates on one database (Project) at a time, does not have the concept of what TMG calls data sets within a database, but does support multiple databases being open at the same time with the ability to drag'n'drop persons between databases. So persons with TMG_ID facts transferred to another database will get new RINs and then one could run the script to re-match their RINs to their TMG_ID fact, provided there are no conflicting, pre-existing RINs. As I mentioned in my reply to Lorna, the script was designed for immediate post-import use and would need revision or even incorporation into a higher level app to protect against exceptional uses. Of course, backing up before or running the script against a copy of the database is always advisable. Thanks for your appreciation, Sheila. I was a Family Origins user for a while and then had a hiatus of some years; when I got back into it, FO was deceased, RootsMagic 3 was current and RM4 was in the offing. I looked around at others (I think even TMG) and was drawn to FO's grandchild, despite its disrupting shift in database technology because of two things: a) the open-source, free database and b) the active and supportive on-line user community. You will have little challenge in SQL syntax for SQLite and we have done our best to document what we believe the database design to be - the biggest challenge is time but you should find many of the published queries may suit your needs or can be readily adapted. Tom On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:06 PM, <sheilaxyz1@gmail.com> wrote: > FYI -- TMG has an edit that won't allow the entry of a duplicate TMG_ID. > She must be maintaining two different projects. Since they are separate > there is no duplicate ID issue. She wants to link the two projects after > the fact, so if Person XYZ is TMG_ID 5 in the first project she forces the > TMG_ID to be 5 in the 2nd project. This simplifies linking them when she > builds her web sites. (At least that is what I am understanding her to > say). > > I'm understanding you to say the RootsMagic will also support multiple > projects. She could force the IDs to match by updating the TMG_ID Fact and > rerunning the utility. The major difference being that TMG would not allow > a duplicate TMG_ID to be introduced, but RootsMagic could result in a > duplicate TMG_ID Fact. Running the utility with a duplicate TMG_ID Fact > would result in a corrupted database. She can continue doing as she has > been, but will need to use some extra care. > > Thanks for your ongoing support and willingness to answer questions. > RootsMagic is missing some functionality that will cause me headaches > (alternate name variables and memo variables in sentences), but it does > appear that RootsMagic has the best chance of eventually meeting my needs. > The SQLlite database is a big plus. I've never used SQLLite, but as a SQL > Server database administrator I'm sure I can easily pick it up. Obviously, > a lot of care needs to be taken when running scripts against the database, > but at least there is the possibility of simplifying the necessary clean > up. The other advantage is the support. The Legacy RootsWeb mailing list > has had one message posted this month. And, you see no one on this list or > the main TMG list posting about the benefits of Legacy. > > I went ahead a purchased RootsMagic a few days ago to begin testing the > direct import and playing with it. I should have waited a couple of days > so I could save $10!!! > > Sheila Altenbernd > >

Greetings to our new members, who have joined us over the last week or so. If you are not subscribed to the website associated with this mailing list, you are missing a big portion of the content. See the address in my signature. People have been great about adding information about TMG and other programs to the website. Feel free to add things to the website or here on the mailing list if you have ideas to chip in--from things you want in a TMG replacement to tips about how to format/convert/export/etc. information to wishlists about program replacements. You can subscribe to a revision stream over on the website if you want to be updated about absolutely every change, or you can browse from time to time. Keep the good stuff coming! -- Barbara Zanzig TMG-REFUGEES list mom admin email: *TMG-REFUGEES-admin@rootsweb.com <TMG-REFUGEES-admin@rootsweb.com>* list address: *http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/TMG-REFUGEES.html <http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/TMG-REFUGEES.html>* list website: *https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees <https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees>*

All that this script does is to replace the imported Record Number with the numerical value of the TMG_ID fact. I suppose that you could edit the TMG_ID value or add a TMG_ID fact to a new person and rerun the script and it would change the RIN to match. BUT RIN must be unique and there is no control on the TMG_ID fact to ensure that. So you cannot combine two TMG projects with overlapping TMG IDs in a common RootsMagic database and have all the RINs match all the TMG_IDs. I wonder if you can even do that in TMG. To keep common RINs, yet keep the persons separate, they must be in separate databases. John Cardinal is developing Second Site to work with RootsMagic extended GEDCOM. Maybe there is a possibility for there to be some mechanism by which SS websites from two RootsMagic databases may be interlinked. Another consideration might be an entirely different approach - why two databases? Why two websites? Maybe one database outputting two kinds of websites? Or one website with filters or two ways of looking at people? Maybe your current solution is predicated on the way things work in TMG and Second Site and another solution is more appropriate and even better with different platforms. Tom > On Sep 24, 2014, at 6:47 PM, LornaMoa <lornamoa@gmail.com> wrote: > > A question on the >>Replace the RootsMagic RIN with the TMG_ID number << > will that work on a specific RIN/TMG_ID? > With TMG's ability to assign numbers on input, or renumber a person after input, I use this in my separate but connected DNA project so that the people (several 100s) that are in both the DNA project and in my main project (many thousands), have the same id. > Which means in SecondSite I can create (using the flag event facility) automatic links for interested readers to jump between the two websites (dna/family) > > So whereas at a conversion to RM yes your utility would be great, ongoing use / divergance could cause me some issues (currently still well into the future for these two projects at least so I can still use SSite to generate web pages) > > Lorna Henderson > http://LornaHen.com > >> On 25/09/14 8:12, LornaMoa wrote: >> >>- Map the TMG_ID (the person number familiar to you in TMG) to a Reference Number fact for optional display after the name - Replace the RootsMagic RIN with the TMG_ID number << >> >> many thanks in general Tom, but for these two in particular >> Sometimes its the seemingly little things that count most <g> >> The latter will probably be my preference as I do have some specific Reference field contents I also know and love, eg DNA project ids, family chart references (as well as some overdue cleanup in TMG itself for prior uses of the field) >> Trying the new import now on my main TMG project but it will be a while, as I'm running the VFI/optimize on it first, so in several hours..... >> >> Lorna Henderson >> http://LornaHen.com >> >>> On 25/09/14 2:04, Tom Holden via wrote: >>> There will never be a substitute for TMG that will recover all the data, >>> support the same methods of working, provide the same outputs and, for some >>> TMG users, nothing less can be acceptable. The same has been true in the >>> opposite direction. There have been, before August's announcement, TMG >>> refugees to RootsMagic (and I'm sure to other programs) who swear that they >>> will never go back because of the issues they had with it. For some, an 80% >>> score on transfer is good enough - others want 99%. Different strokes... >>> >>> There is a RootsMagic update imminent that addresses some of the issues >>> that were known when the first was released and some that have come up >>> since. >>> >>> There will be a crude mapping from Source Surety to the Quality.Information >>> parameter but, as you know, RM's three indicators are based on Evidence >>> Explained while TMG's five indicators are different. That sort of >>> philosophical and structural difference cannot be bridged. >>> >>> One of the virtues of RootsMagic is its readily accessible database. I have >>> been developing SQLite queries that can be run against it post-import to >>> affect some things not handled by the import. They demonstrate what benefit >>> (or complication) might be achieved were a similar process incorporated in >>> the import while leaving it to the user to decide which outcome is better. >>> Currently available are: >>> - Help finding sentences and notes having extant TMG variables and >>> formatting codes >>> - Support for split Citation Detail >>> - Map the TMG_ID (the person number familiar to you in TMG) to a Reference >>> Number fact for optional display after the name >>> - Replace the RootsMagic RIN with the TMG_ID number >>> Coming, I think, will be: >>> - Help finding sentences for individual events that contain variables for >>> couple events, e.g., [spouse] >>> - Add [PlaceDetails] variable to sentences constructed from TMG [L] variable >>> - Modify [Date] variable to [Date:Plain] in sentence templates if a leading >>> preposition is detected >>> >>> Developed queries can be found via this link: >>> http://sqlitetoolsforrootsmagic.wikispaces.com/space/content?tag=TMG >>> >>> Tom >>> >>>> On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Don Ferguson <don@ferguson.name> wrote: >>>> >>>> ... >>>> >>>> Nobody else seems to have noticed that the import process makes no attempt >>>> to handle Citation Sureties, even though some sort of mapping to RM 'Proof' >>>> should have been possible? OK, it only has 3 categories, but they could at >>>> least try.... >>>> >>>> As far as I'm concerned, the current RM sentence import process creates so >>>> much rubbish and drops so much detail that it is totally unusable. And even >>>> if they fixed that (a major task) I still see RM's poor media handling, >>>> dreadful charting and reports, lack of Flags as total show-stoppers - it >>>> will never be a viable transfer product for me without major development. >>> *** >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I think we all appreciate the issues involved in the future of TMG, and they've been discussed at length on the TMG list and elsewhere. Let's get back to the purpose of this list, which is to understand and discuss how to extract ourselves from TMG. -- Barbara Zanzig TMG-REFUGEES list admin *http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/TMG-REFUGEES.html <http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/TMG-REFUGEES.html>* admin email: *TMG-REFUGEES-admin@rootsweb.com <TMG-REFUGEES-admin@rootsweb.com>*

I think all of us should be contacting both Legacy and RootsMagic about functionality the group identifies as lacking. The more requests that are made, the more likely it is to be considered. Right now, both vendors are looking to expand their user base with TMG users. I think this means our greatest leverage in getting additional functionality added will be in the next 6 months. Sheila Altenbernd -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Levergood via Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 6:16 PM To: tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] Family entry mode - Associates window It is not possible in Legacy (short of looking up the associate by name or number), so I made a request for the functionality. Barbara

I love the Associates window too, Frankie. I explored how RM and Legacy handle navigation to associates and posted my findings to our wiki. https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/software-comparison/navigate-associates (Ask the ListAdmin if you would like access.) It appears that navigation to an associate can be done in RM, but the only way I found was rather roundabout. (As usual, please feel free to suggest alternatives!) It is not possible in Legacy (short of looking up the associate by name or number), so I made a request for the functionality. Barbara On 9/24/2014 12:38 PM, Frlva via wrote: > I also just love the Associates window of TMG. -- Barbara Levergood levergood@att.net

v6.3.3.0 I see a major problem with v6.3.3.0. Event tags with two spouses that are not Marriage/Divorce tag type group tags are being processed as though they have two principals who are not spouses. Jim

> Just as a side comment on the lifetime discussion, I'm more concerned > about > Visual FoxPro's imminent end of life (Jan 13 2015). That's one I hadn't thought of - probably a bigger concern than the operating system. That might might reduce my "5 or 10 years" down to "3 or 4 years". :) Of course, Microsoft's fiasco with Windows 8 is also not encouraging, but it appears to me that they have learned their lesson. Jerry

I agree w/Jerry for the most part... however when we systems went from MS Windows XP to MS Windows 7 the reports in TMG were dead. Granted the rest of the program worked... just something to keep in mind. Julie On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Jerry Bryan via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com > wrote: > It’s strictly an operating system issue and has nothing to do with TMG > itself or any other particular application. My experience is that > applications will continue to function for quite a while ask desktop > operating systems evolve. Which is to say, operating systems tend to > maintain a lot of backwards compatibility. There’s obviously no guarantees, > but applications released in 2009 almost certainly still work on my desktop > and applications released on 2004 usually do. But many applications from > longer ago than that no longer work. > > This of course says nothing about interoperability between TMG and other > genealogy software. But even there, GEDCOM is the main interoperability > issue and GEDCOM seems to evolve at a glacial pace. > > Jerry > > > From: Frlva@aol.com > Sent: Wed, September 24, 2014 9:18 AM > To: c24m48@hotmail.com ; tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] Family entry mode > > Hi Jerry, > > Do you really think we have five to ten years to use TMG? If this is true, > I find this somewhat hopeful. Would you mind sharing with us some of your > thoughts on why you think we have this long? I would find that very > helpful. Thanks. > > Frankie > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For me the question is not whether TMG will continue to run. I expect it to be viable for quite a long time to come. The more important issue for me is to assure that tech support will be available for whichever of my kids picks up the project when the time comes. Right now I'm leaning towards RootsMagic (the most recent direct conversion has worked very well for me). Several writers in the forums and lists have suggested that there's no guarantee that RootsMagic (like me!) will survive for very long. That's true, of course, but it's pretty clear that TMG definitely will not. So I feel that I do have to make a change while I am still (more or less) bright-eyed and bushy tailed. RM and Legacy seem the most likely candidates. I hope to be able to test Legacy's direct-conversion soon. Robert -----Original Message----- From: tmg-refugees-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:tmg-refugees-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Bryan via Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 10:53 AM To: TMG-Refugees@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] Family entry mode > Just as a side comment on the lifetime discussion, I'm more concerned > about > Visual FoxPro's imminent end of life (Jan 13 2015). That's one I hadn't thought of - probably a bigger concern than the operating system. That might might reduce my "5 or 10 years" down to "3 or 4 years". :) Of course, Microsoft's fiasco with Windows 8 is also not encouraging, but it appears to me that they have learned their lesson. Jerry *** To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Judy, I'll probably do the same. Right now, I'm just trying to figure out exactly *what* and *how much* we'd lose by going to another program. I haven't figured that out yet. I'm also wondering like crazy what the new Windows OS will be like (not that I plan to upgrade to it as soon as it's released but just when I have to!). I also guess I'm getting way off topic here . . . Franke Liles Richmond, VA In a message dated 9/24/2014 12:03:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jmadnick@gmail.com writes: Frankie, I'm with you when you say "Nevertheless, I am encouraged by your thought that we could go 10 years with TMG. At my stage and age, I really don't wish to go to another program and think I would just lose too much information." At this point I'll read with interest the experience of others and stay with TMG until I have no choice...and perhaps someday I'll just have to make a decision. Judy Madnick Albany, NY On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Frlva via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Well, thanks for your comments, Jerry. I also was thinking about the > operating system compatibility, but I knew I had not ever gone for five years, > much less 10 years, on one operating system (except for DOS) and was > wondering whether, in the past, I could have done so if I'd had to do it. I don't > do GEDCOMs, since I use so many custom sentences. This is a decision I made > when I first transferred from ROOTS/UFT to TMG, and I don't share file, > either. Perhaps I made a bad decision at that time. > > I've also been wondering about the very large Memos I write. I know I > discussed this with Bob V. early on (when I transferred to TMG in the 1990's). > He assured me it would never be a problem, and it hasn't been. I'm not sure > whether Roots Magic (or any other genealogical software) allows basically > unlimited Memo text and has such a Memo field. I also write custom citations > and wonder whether these would transfer. > > Nevertheless, I am encouraged by your thought that we could go 10 years > with TMG. At my stage and age, I really don't wish to go to another program > and think I would just lose too much information. > > Thanks again. > > Frankie > > > In a message dated 9/24/2014 10:22:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com writes: > > It’s strictly an operating system issue and has nothing to do with TMG > itself or any other particular application. My experience is that applications > will continue to function for quite a while ask desktop operating systems > evolve. Which is to say, operating systems tend to maintain a lot of > backwards compatibility. There’s obviously no guarantees, but applications > released in 2009 almost certainly still work on my desktop and applications > released on 2004 usually do. But many applications from longer ago than that no > longer work. > > This of course says nothing about interoperability between TMG and other > genealogy software. But even there, GEDCOM is the main interoperability > issue and GEDCOM seems to evolve at a glacial pace. > > Jerry > > > From: Frlva@aol.com > Sent: Wed, September 24, 2014 9:18 AM > To: c24m48@hotmail.com ; tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] Family entry mode > > Hi Jerry, > > Do you really think we have five to ten years to use TMG? If this is true, > I find this somewhat hopeful. Would you mind sharing with us some of your > thoughts on why you think we have this long? I would find that very > helpful. Thanks. > > Frankie > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message > subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

(I meant to send this also to the list. Sorry.) Thank you, Tom. I don't use either the Split Memo function in TMG. I don't use Roles, either. I never really thought either were necessary. Yes, however, folks *will* read my long Memos and even have done so! <g> I think I have about 90 pages (8 1/2 x 11 pages) in one Memo, but that is, by far, the longest one I have and is basically the Revolutionary War service of one ancestor for an eventual book. Would that be too much for Roots Magic? I also have some probates that extended for many, many years and some extensive court cases that could have "umpteen" depositions, etc. I also cannot do the southern migration work that I do without the (sort of) relationality of TMG, where I can attach as many Witnesses as I want to any event. This is the main way I track folks. I also just love the Associates window of TMG. Thanks very much for your comments, Tom. I appreciate them. Frankie In a message dated 9/24/2014 11:42:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com writes: TMG Memo fields transfer to RootsMagic Note fields which are, practically, unlimited. (There is always a limit but you will never reach it and nobody would read it!). Custom sentences and citations do transfer to RootsMagic but the accuracy of translation depends on what you have constructed. The use of split Memo fields is not yet supported by the import and may never be. I wrote a post-process query to adapt split Citation Details. That said, if Legacy succeeds in supporting split Memos, RootsMagic may feel pressed to do likewise. Explore your options. The free RootsMagic trial does the direct import, as will Legacy's (I expect) and as does Family Historian. They should all improve over time... Tom

Frankie, I'm with you when you say "Nevertheless, I am encouraged by your thought that we could go 10 years with TMG. At my stage and age, I really don't wish to go to another program and think I would just lose too much information." At this point I'll read with interest the experience of others and stay with TMG until I have no choice...and perhaps someday I'll just have to make a decision. Judy Madnick Albany, NY On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Frlva via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Well, thanks for your comments, Jerry. I also was thinking about the > operating system compatibility, but I knew I had not ever gone for five years, > much less 10 years, on one operating system (except for DOS) and was > wondering whether, in the past, I could have done so if I'd had to do it. I don't > do GEDCOMs, since I use so many custom sentences. This is a decision I made > when I first transferred from ROOTS/UFT to TMG, and I don't share file, > either. Perhaps I made a bad decision at that time. > > I've also been wondering about the very large Memos I write. I know I > discussed this with Bob V. early on (when I transferred to TMG in the 1990's). > He assured me it would never be a problem, and it hasn't been. I'm not sure > whether Roots Magic (or any other genealogical software) allows basically > unlimited Memo text and has such a Memo field. I also write custom citations > and wonder whether these would transfer. > > Nevertheless, I am encouraged by your thought that we could go 10 years > with TMG. At my stage and age, I really don't wish to go to another program > and think I would just lose too much information. > > Thanks again. > > Frankie > > > In a message dated 9/24/2014 10:22:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com writes: > > It’s strictly an operating system issue and has nothing to do with TMG > itself or any other particular application. My experience is that applications > will continue to function for quite a while ask desktop operating systems > evolve. Which is to say, operating systems tend to maintain a lot of > backwards compatibility. There’s obviously no guarantees, but applications > released in 2009 almost certainly still work on my desktop and applications > released on 2004 usually do. But many applications from longer ago than that no > longer work. > > This of course says nothing about interoperability between TMG and other > genealogy software. But even there, GEDCOM is the main interoperability > issue and GEDCOM seems to evolve at a glacial pace. > > Jerry > > > From: Frlva@aol.com > Sent: Wed, September 24, 2014 9:18 AM > To: c24m48@hotmail.com ; tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] Family entry mode > > Hi Jerry, > > Do you really think we have five to ten years to use TMG? If this is true, > I find this somewhat hopeful. Would you mind sharing with us some of your > thoughts on why you think we have this long? I would find that very > helpful. Thanks. > > Frankie > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message > subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

TMG Memo fields transfer to RootsMagic Note fields which are, practically, unlimited. (There is always a limit but you will never reach it and nobody would read it!). Custom sentences and citations do transfer to RootsMagic but the accuracy of translation depends on what you have constructed. The use of split Memo fields is not yet supported by the import and may never be. I wrote a post-process query to adapt split Citation Details. That said, if Legacy succeeds in supporting split Memos, RootsMagic may feel pressed to do likewise. Explore your options. The free RootsMagic trial does the direct import, as will Legacy's (I expect) and as does Family Historian. They should all improve over time... Tom On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Frlva via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Well, thanks for your comments, Jerry. I also was thinking about the > operating system compatibility, but I knew I had not ever gone for five > years, > much less 10 years, on one operating system (except for DOS) and was > wondering whether, in the past, I could have done so if I'd had to do it. > I don't > do GEDCOMs, since I use so many custom sentences. This is a decision I > made > when I first transferred from ROOTS/UFT to TMG, and I don't share file, > either. Perhaps I made a bad decision at that time. > > I've also been wondering about the very large Memos I write. I know I > discussed this with Bob V. early on (when I transferred to TMG in the > 1990's). > He assured me it would never be a problem, and it hasn't been. I'm not sure > whether Roots Magic (or any other genealogical software) allows basically > unlimited Memo text and has such a Memo field. I also write custom > citations > and wonder whether these would transfer. > > Nevertheless, I am encouraged by your thought that we could go 10 years > with TMG. At my stage and age, I really don't wish to go to another > program > and think I would just lose too much information. > > Thanks again. > > Frankie > > > In a message dated 9/24/2014 10:22:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com writes: > > It’s strictly an operating system issue and has nothing to do with TMG > itself or any other particular application. My experience is that > applications > will continue to function for quite a while ask desktop operating systems > evolve. Which is to say, operating systems tend to maintain a lot of > backwards compatibility. There’s obviously no guarantees, but applications > released in 2009 almost certainly still work on my desktop and > applications > released on 2004 usually do. But many applications from longer ago than > that no > longer work. > > This of course says nothing about interoperability between TMG and other > genealogy software. But even there, GEDCOM is the main interoperability > issue and GEDCOM seems to evolve at a glacial pace. > > Jerry > > > From: Frlva@aol.com > Sent: Wed, September 24, 2014 9:18 AM > To: c24m48@hotmail.com ; tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] Family entry mode > > Hi Jerry, > > Do you really think we have five to ten years to use TMG? If this is true, > I find this somewhat hopeful. Would you mind sharing with us some of your > thoughts on why you think we have this long? I would find that very > helpful. Thanks. > > Frankie > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the message > subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks Jerry. Streamlined bulk data entry isn't necessarily a killer issue for me, but it's very important. I think as Tom said, and you implied, one of the most important issues is data exchange. If we had a reliable, clean method for sending data between the programs, it would be feasible to use both TMG and RM (or something else) for what each does best. I'm hoping that between John Cardinal's work on beefing up GEDCOM export from TMG and the work being done by the RM and LFT developers on direct import, we'll get a good solution. As you said, TMG will no longer work on new computers at some time in the future. Even with my approach of keeping an old Win7 or Win8 machine, at some point it will be too hard to maintain. But if it lasts 10 years, it'll likely outlast me. Just as a side comment on the lifetime discussion, I'm more concerned about Visual FoxPro's imminent end of life (Jan 13 2015). After that time, we can't expect MS to make patches that address hacking exploits targeting VFP. It's probably a much too cautious approach, but I'm making backup plans to disconnect my TMG machine from the internet before that date. Glenn

RootsMagic 6.3.3.0 has been released. And the TMGDoc.pdf document is updated. http://files.rootsmagic.com/TMGDoc.pdf The change log hasn’t been posted yet but the revised document will show you many of the changes. Tag import has been updated considerably so that the TMG pre-import edits previously recommended are no longer necessary. Place LatLong, comments and the short place are now imported. The source repository links are imported. The tag primary settings are imported. And as a consequence of the last change, the Index window will show the birth years immediately after import. And other changes. Jim

Well, thanks for your comments, Jerry. I also was thinking about the operating system compatibility, but I knew I had not ever gone for five years, much less 10 years, on one operating system (except for DOS) and was wondering whether, in the past, I could have done so if I'd had to do it. I don't do GEDCOMs, since I use so many custom sentences. This is a decision I made when I first transferred from ROOTS/UFT to TMG, and I don't share file, either. Perhaps I made a bad decision at that time. I've also been wondering about the very large Memos I write. I know I discussed this with Bob V. early on (when I transferred to TMG in the 1990's). He assured me it would never be a problem, and it hasn't been. I'm not sure whether Roots Magic (or any other genealogical software) allows basically unlimited Memo text and has such a Memo field. I also write custom citations and wonder whether these would transfer. Nevertheless, I am encouraged by your thought that we could go 10 years with TMG. At my stage and age, I really don't wish to go to another program and think I would just lose too much information. Thanks again. Frankie In a message dated 9/24/2014 10:22:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com writes: It’s strictly an operating system issue and has nothing to do with TMG itself or any other particular application. My experience is that applications will continue to function for quite a while ask desktop operating systems evolve. Which is to say, operating systems tend to maintain a lot of backwards compatibility. There’s obviously no guarantees, but applications released in 2009 almost certainly still work on my desktop and applications released on 2004 usually do. But many applications from longer ago than that no longer work. This of course says nothing about interoperability between TMG and other genealogy software. But even there, GEDCOM is the main interoperability issue and GEDCOM seems to evolve at a glacial pace. Jerry From: Frlva@aol.com Sent: Wed, September 24, 2014 9:18 AM To: c24m48@hotmail.com ; tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] Family entry mode Hi Jerry, Do you really think we have five to ten years to use TMG? If this is true, I find this somewhat hopeful. Would you mind sharing with us some of your thoughts on why you think we have this long? I would find that very helpful. Thanks. Frankie *** To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It’s strictly an operating system issue and has nothing to do with TMG itself or any other particular application. My experience is that applications will continue to function for quite a while ask desktop operating systems evolve. Which is to say, operating systems tend to maintain a lot of backwards compatibility. There’s obviously no guarantees, but applications released in 2009 almost certainly still work on my desktop and applications released on 2004 usually do. But many applications from longer ago than that no longer work. This of course says nothing about interoperability between TMG and other genealogy software. But even there, GEDCOM is the main interoperability issue and GEDCOM seems to evolve at a glacial pace. Jerry From: Frlva@aol.com Sent: Wed, September 24, 2014 9:18 AM To: c24m48@hotmail.com ; tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] Family entry mode Hi Jerry, Do you really think we have five to ten years to use TMG? If this is true, I find this somewhat hopeful. Would you mind sharing with us some of your thoughts on why you think we have this long? I would find that very helpful. Thanks. Frankie

There will never be a substitute for TMG that will recover all the data, support the same methods of working, provide the same outputs and, for some TMG users, nothing less can be acceptable. The same has been true in the opposite direction. There have been, before August's announcement, TMG refugees to RootsMagic (and I'm sure to other programs) who swear that they will never go back because of the issues they had with it. For some, an 80% score on transfer is good enough - others want 99%. Different strokes... There is a RootsMagic update imminent that addresses some of the issues that were known when the first was released and some that have come up since. There will be a crude mapping from Source Surety to the Quality.Information parameter but, as you know, RM's three indicators are based on Evidence Explained while TMG's five indicators are different. That sort of philosophical and structural difference cannot be bridged. One of the virtues of RootsMagic is its readily accessible database. I have been developing SQLite queries that can be run against it post-import to affect some things not handled by the import. They demonstrate what benefit (or complication) might be achieved were a similar process incorporated in the import while leaving it to the user to decide which outcome is better. Currently available are: - Help finding sentences and notes having extant TMG variables and formatting codes - Support for split Citation Detail - Map the TMG_ID (the person number familiar to you in TMG) to a Reference Number fact for optional display after the name - Replace the RootsMagic RIN with the TMG_ID number Coming, I think, will be: - Help finding sentences for individual events that contain variables for couple events, e.g., [spouse] - Add [PlaceDetails] variable to sentences constructed from TMG [L] variable - Modify [Date] variable to [Date:Plain] in sentence templates if a leading preposition is detected Developed queries can be found via this link: http://sqlitetoolsforrootsmagic.wikispaces.com/space/content?tag=TMG Tom On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Don Ferguson <don@ferguson.name> wrote: > ... > > Nobody else seems to have noticed that the import process makes no attempt > to handle Citation Sureties, even though some sort of mapping to RM 'Proof' > should have been possible? OK, it only has 3 categories, but they could at > least try.... > > As far as I'm concerned, the current RM sentence import process creates so > much rubbish and drops so much detail that it is totally unusable. And even > if they fixed that (a major task) I still see RM's poor media handling, > dreadful charting and reports, lack of Flags as total show-stoppers - it > will never be a viable transfer product for me without major development. > >