Agreed - I have roles such as bride, groom, second, third These aren't handled really well but can fix via the sentences. The people with multiple marriages where the roles are "second" etc. are imported alright- I can fix the sentences. Sent from Julie's iPhone Visit www.jrwhiskey.com > On Sep 27, 2014, at 7:01 PM, Richard Damon via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > >> On 9/27/14, 5:51 PM, LornaMoa via wrote: >> Julie, >> I'm curious how you coped with RM only having a Principal role for P1. >> I've some 5,000 events over a number of tags in my TMG data where P1 has >> a role other than principal, with associated sentences that do assorted >> things, eg link to specific websites or simply make the narrative >> reports less bog standard/more interesting. >> Without the context of the role, a lot of these don't make much sense. >> To convert my main db to RM I'd be spending rather a lot of precious >> research time working on these 5,000+ creating adiditonal fact types to >> work around this issue, which clutters the fact/tag type list, >> unnecessarily in my opinion. >> >> Lorna Henderson >> http://LornaHen.com >> > In looking at RM, my thought is that if you have multiple roles you use > for the principal, you convert them to different Fact types, so, for > example, if you had a "out of wedlock" role for the child in a birth > tag, it would become a Birth-OutOfWedlock tag (so it could have its own > sentence). > > The one thing this doesn't handle is 2 principal tags, but unless they > are spouses they are going to need to be changed anyway. The biggest > problem I see for me would be that my marriage tag put the "Marriage > Number" for the bride and groom into roles. My guess is that I will need > to move this to the description field to keep the information. > > I see transferring to do this to be fairly labor intensive unless I can > write something to automate it on the TMG side. > > -- > Richard Damon > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I’m trying to figure out what to do and appreciate all your hard work. I’m wondering if under Software comparison, there is a place to list what transfers/imports to each of the new programs and what doesn’t. I don’t know where to start. It all seems overwhelming. I have been looking at Legacy, RM, and FH. Are there any tweaks anyone did with their TMG data - that helped with their import to another program. I saw the RM hints, but I’m more interested in things you can do - to your data in TMG before the import. I use roles and custom sentences. I use split citations with my sources. I use flags to help sort what exports to Second Site and what doesn’t. I’m not looking forward to moving my data. I think I can change most of my sources to get rid of the split citations (using TMG Utilities) - it will take awhile, but at least then, my data would transfer. Are there any software programs that transfer split citations. Thanks again ~ Barb On Sep 27, 2014, at 6:06 PM, Barbara Levergood via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Hi folks, > > We are doing a bit of Fall cleaning on the website. > > The Functionalities page has been moved up one level in the hierarchy, > https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/functionalities > > Software Comparison's links are now listed in a more organized fashion > than before, > https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/software-comparison > > We are deleting stray pages, making sure that we don't omit any content. > > Finally, several people are hard at work on adding new content. > > There will be other changes, as is normal in a site under construction. > > Keep an eye on our progress. Pitch in on the website, in the comments, > or on this list as you wish! Questions and comments always welcome, > either on the list, to the List Admin, or to me. > > Barbara L. > > (Ask ListAdmin for access to the website.) > > > -- > > Barbara Levergood > levergood@att.net > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Someone on the RootsMagic forum suggested adding a shared fact and selecting the same person with the role I want. The software does allow me to do this. One problem is that I now see the fact twice. Once as the principal and once as the role I selected. By clearing the sentence on the principal, I was able to get a narrative that included only the sentence linked to the role, but the timeline display and the individual summary still showed the fact twice. And,, of course, none of this came in on the import. Sheila Altenbernd -----Original Message----- From: Richard Damon via Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 6:48 PM To: tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] Move completed (to RM - P1 roles?) On 9/27/14, 7:16 PM, sheilaxyz1 via wrote: > This one is a biggie for me too. I don't even understand the logic behind > it. RootsMagic has roles implemented so why would it not be possible to > assign a role to P1. Technically, we could create separate tags for each > role to resolve the problem, but what a chore. Hopefully, if enough of us > ask about this one, RootsMagic will consider changing it. > > Sheila Altenbernd > My guess is that it relates to how RM is mostly modeled on GEDCOM. They add an attribute to the additional "Shared" people to link them, and add the role for that shared person in the link. The principal on the other had is connected to the event via normal GEDCOM interconnect, and that doesn't have a natural spot to add the role. It could be added as a property to the event (like the shared individuals), but that is a unique path. -- Richard Damon *** To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 9/27/14, 7:16 PM, sheilaxyz1 via wrote: > This one is a biggie for me too. I don't even understand the logic behind > it. RootsMagic has roles implemented so why would it not be possible to > assign a role to P1. Technically, we could create separate tags for each > role to resolve the problem, but what a chore. Hopefully, if enough of us > ask about this one, RootsMagic will consider changing it. > > Sheila Altenbernd > My guess is that it relates to how RM is mostly modeled on GEDCOM. They add an attribute to the additional "Shared" people to link them, and add the role for that shared person in the link. The principal on the other had is connected to the event via normal GEDCOM interconnect, and that doesn't have a natural spot to add the role. It could be added as a property to the event (like the shared individuals), but that is a unique path. -- Richard Damon

On 9/27/14, 5:51 PM, LornaMoa via wrote: > Julie, > I'm curious how you coped with RM only having a Principal role for P1. > I've some 5,000 events over a number of tags in my TMG data where P1 has > a role other than principal, with associated sentences that do assorted > things, eg link to specific websites or simply make the narrative > reports less bog standard/more interesting. > Without the context of the role, a lot of these don't make much sense. > To convert my main db to RM I'd be spending rather a lot of precious > research time working on these 5,000+ creating adiditonal fact types to > work around this issue, which clutters the fact/tag type list, > unnecessarily in my opinion. > > Lorna Henderson > http://LornaHen.com > In looking at RM, my thought is that if you have multiple roles you use for the principal, you convert them to different Fact types, so, for example, if you had a "out of wedlock" role for the child in a birth tag, it would become a Birth-OutOfWedlock tag (so it could have its own sentence). The one thing this doesn't handle is 2 principal tags, but unless they are spouses they are going to need to be changed anyway. The biggest problem I see for me would be that my marriage tag put the "Marriage Number" for the bride and groom into roles. My guess is that I will need to move this to the description field to keep the information. I see transferring to do this to be fairly labor intensive unless I can write something to automate it on the TMG side. -- Richard Damon

This one is a biggie for me too. I don't even understand the logic behind it. RootsMagic has roles implemented so why would it not be possible to assign a role to P1. Technically, we could create separate tags for each role to resolve the problem, but what a chore. Hopefully, if enough of us ask about this one, RootsMagic will consider changing it. Sheila Altenbernd -----Original Message----- From: LornaMoa via Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 4:51 PM To: Julie Rosales ; tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] Move completed (to RM - P1 roles?) Julie, I'm curious how you coped with RM only having a Principal role for P1. I've some 5,000 events over a number of tags in my TMG data where P1 has a role other than principal, with associated sentences that do assorted things,

Hi folks, We are doing a bit of Fall cleaning on the website. The Functionalities page has been moved up one level in the hierarchy, https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/functionalities Software Comparison's links are now listed in a more organized fashion than before, https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/software-comparison We are deleting stray pages, making sure that we don't omit any content. Finally, several people are hard at work on adding new content. There will be other changes, as is normal in a site under construction. Keep an eye on our progress. Pitch in on the website, in the comments, or on this list as you wish! Questions and comments always welcome, either on the list, to the List Admin, or to me. Barbara L. (Ask ListAdmin for access to the website.) -- Barbara Levergood levergood@att.net

I'm with Lorna. RM handling of my sentences, roles and witnesses is OK for basic BDM entries but for anything else is woeful. I cannot and would not even think of going to RM (or anything) until say, 95% of existing sentences are recreated correctly. And of course, have the ability to identify the ones needing surgery. RM doesn't meet either target. Don -----Original Message----- From: tmg-refugees-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:tmg-refugees-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of LornaMoa via Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 4:52 PM To: Julie Rosales; tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] Move completed (to RM - P1 roles?) Julie, I'm curious how you coped with RM only having a Principal role for P1. I've some 5,000 events over a number of tags in my TMG data where P1 has a role other than principal, with associated sentences that do assorted things, eg link to specific websites or simply make the narrative reports less bog standard/more interesting. Without the context of the role, a lot of these don't make much sense. To convert my main db to RM I'd be spending rather a lot of precious research time working on these 5,000+ creating adiditonal fact types to work around this issue, which clutters the fact/tag type list, unnecessarily in my opinion. Lorna Henderson http://LornaHen.com On 27/09/14 1:49, Julie Rosales via wrote: > Barbara wrote "My TMG global census sentences won't work in Legacy > because the two programs handle witnesses and roles differently." > > This is an absolute show stopper for me. I not only have custom census > sentences for a variety of roles, but also custom sentences for > mariners (I have alot of whaling captains, ship owners, etc.). > > I worked with RootsMagic during the development of the TMG import, and > the handling of my sentences, roles and witnesses are now supurb! I > will be switching to RM once I get my backlog of data entered into TMG. > > Julie > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Kathleen Lenihan via < > tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > >> I've been playing around with both RM and Legacy trying to determine >> which program I want to make my permanent "home". I find things I >> like about both programs, and it is a tough decision. Can you >> elaborate on why you find Legacy superior to RM? >> >> Kathleen L. >> >> On 9/25/2014 10:56 PM, karenhappuch via wrote: >>> I acquired a second home, Legacy, in August and completed the move >>> this >> morning. My genealogy data and research now have two homes, TMG ad >> Legacy. There are, of course, lots of things to be done in the >> "second home", but those can be done while I'm fully using the program. >>> I've also imported my TMG project to RootsMagic both by Gedcom >>> and by >> direct import include the most recent direct import. Plusses of the >> direct import are all the tag types and the witnesses and roles >> placed in the "share". Otherwise the RM direct import is inferior to >> my TMG 9.03 Gedcom import into Legacy. >>> The Legacy cleanup forced me to look at every person in my 6200 >>> person >> main dataset. Was it time consuming? YES. Was it worth it? YES. >> I've identified new research to do and some individuals and families >> that need a closer look. >>> Census tags took much of my time. My TMG global census sentences >>> won't >> work in Legacy because the two programs handle witnesses and roles >> differently. That was ok with me because they'd often required >> modification at the local level in TMG. I'd been wanting to change >> those for several years, so now it is done. The new ones work very well. >>> Barbara S. >>> >>> *** >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the message subject and body. >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> *** >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the message subject and body. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message *** To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I added a reference to Clooz 3 for Legacy on the Query Database page, but I'm not sure if this should really go on the add-ons page. Regards Mike James

As per something Terry said on one or other list I'd be curious about a comparison between contenders on their ability to input, but conditionally exclude from output, a source citation. Like Terry, this is a feature of TMG output/SSite that I do use. Apologies if this is already listed on the wiki, still finding my way around -- Lorna Henderson http://LornaHen.com

Hi Lorna, Thanks for asking about this! I don't see it specifically included on the list of important functionalities, https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/software-comparison/functionalities so I added it both under Reports and under Import/Export on that page. Barbara L. On 9/26/2014 9:59 PM, LornaMoa via wrote: > As per something Terry said on one or other list I'd be curious about a > comparison between contenders on their ability to input, but > conditionally exclude from output, a source citation. > Like Terry, this is a feature of TMG output/SSite that I do use. > > Apologies if this is already listed on the wiki, still finding my way around > -- Barbara Levergood levergood@att.net

Is it possible to preserve the TMG master source ID numbers when importing TMG data into Legacy or RootsMagic? My source filing system is based on the TMG master source ID numbers so changing them would be a huge effort. Apologies if this has been answered, but could not find it in the message archive.

Neither RootsMagic nor Legacy show source numbers. Both do preserve the TMG source name. You could pre-import append the source numbers to the source names. Barbara S. On September 27, 2014 9:23:38 AM MST, Keith Dishman via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: >Is it possible to preserve the TMG master source ID numbers when >importing >TMG data into Legacy or RootsMagic? My source filing system is based >on >the TMG master source ID numbers so changing them would be a huge >effort. > >Apologies if this has been answered, but could not find it in the >message >archive. >*** >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the message subject and body. >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Hi all, I added as an important functionality "Database can be queried and/or updated by third-party software" to our website, https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/software-comparison/functionalities I also started a related page for comparison and evaluation of TMG, RootsMagic, Legacy, etc. on this point, https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/software-comparison/query-database For comparison and evaluation of the third-party software, please use https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/add-ons I suspect that this may be a functionality that fewer Refugees are familiar with. We would appreciate contributions (and corrections) from those with expertise! A rising tide raises all boats. Thanks! Barbara L. (Ask our ListAdmin for access to our website.) On 9/26/2014 5:45 PM, Jerry Bryan via wrote: >> Of all the software packages currently out there, a BIG >> reason I picked RootsMagic was because of the SQL capabilities. I know >> from >> using Microsoft Access and Excel and their SQL/ODBC functions to collate >> data, I could use the SQL to create reports that were filtered very >> similar >> to how I use TMG filters and reports. > It may not have been made completely apparent thus far, but the RM database > can be queried (or updated, if you are brave enough) directly from SQLite > using an SQLite manager, and it can also be queried from Microsoft Access > and Excel via an ODBC driver for SQLite. I do both regularly. I suppose it's > possible to update RM's database through the ODBC driver, but I've not been > brave enough to try. I've never been 100% convinced that data will make it > from the Microsoft world through the ODBC driver to the SQLite database > without some kind of characters set type of corruption of one sort or other. > As I said, I've not been brave enough to try. But queries from Access and > Excel certainly work great. > > For updates, I always use SQLite directly. For queries, I can't explain why > I use SQLite directly sometimes and I use Access or Excel sometimes. I guess > it just depends on the query at hand. > > Jerry > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Barbara Levergood levergood@att.net

I finally purchased a copy of both RootsMagic and Legacy so I could do some experimentation. (If you missed it, RootsMagic is offering TMG customers a discount price of $19.99) Tonight, I looked at their sentence building options. Both offer fairly robust options. I did not find that obvious at first when I pulled up the screen to build them. I accessed help and was pleased to see the options available. You can use first names, full names, or He/She. You can choose on, from to, at, or in to be used with the place. Conditional fields are supported. Formatting is supported. It looks like RootsMagic supports more options than Legacy. As has been discussed before, however, both are missing the ability to use alternate names and split memos. I’ve put in a request on both systems to have these two options added. This would be beneficial to their existing user base in addition to those thinking of migrating from TMG. It’s not a minor change so even if the developers are wiling to add, we likely won’t see it immediately. I’m hopeful, though, that we will get some indication in the next few months that they are going to work on it. Sheila Altenbernd

It is possible to do one memo split in Legacy provided the second memo is at the end of the sentence. Use Description [Desc] and the first memo and Note, checked as included, as the second. RootsMagic also has both fields, but I haven't tried the technique there. Barbara S. ----- Original Message ----- From: "sheilaxyz1 via" <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> To: <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 8:22 PM Subject: [TMG-REFUGEES] Sentence Building >I finally purchased a copy of both RootsMagic and Legacy so I could do some >experimentation. (If you missed it, RootsMagic is offering TMG customers a >discount price of $19.99) > > Tonight, I looked at their sentence building options. Both offer fairly > robust options. I did not find that obvious at first when I pulled up the > screen to build them. I accessed help and was pleased to see the options > available. You can use first names, full names, or He/She. You can > choose on, from to, at, or in to be used with the place. Conditional > fields are supported. Formatting is supported. It looks like RootsMagic > supports more options than Legacy. As has been discussed before, however, > both are missing the ability to use alternate names and split memos. > > I’ve put in a request on both systems to have these two options added. > This would be beneficial to their existing user base in addition to those > thinking of migrating from TMG. It’s not a minor change so even if the > developers are wiling to add, we likely won’t see it immediately. I’m > hopeful, though, that we will get some indication in the next few months > that they are going to work on it. > > Sheila Altenbernd > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

> Of all the software packages currently out there, a BIG > reason I picked RootsMagic was because of the SQL capabilities. I know > from > using Microsoft Access and Excel and their SQL/ODBC functions to collate > data, I could use the SQL to create reports that were filtered very > similar > to how I use TMG filters and reports. It may not have been made completely apparent thus far, but the RM database can be queried (or updated, if you are brave enough) directly from SQLite using an SQLite manager, and it can also be queried from Microsoft Access and Excel via an ODBC driver for SQLite. I do both regularly. I suppose it's possible to update RM's database through the ODBC driver, but I've not been brave enough to try. I've never been 100% convinced that data will make it from the Microsoft world through the ODBC driver to the SQLite database without some kind of characters set type of corruption of one sort or other. As I said, I've not been brave enough to try. But queries from Access and Excel certainly work great. For updates, I always use SQLite directly. For queries, I can't explain why I use SQLite directly sometimes and I use Access or Excel sometimes. I guess it just depends on the query at hand. Jerry

Good point, Tom. I'm one of the fortunate ones who has never had a corrupted database, but I know plenty of others have had them. Frequent backups might be an absolute necessity after the end of the year. Glenn >There are instances where a TMG user has an issue with their database and they "send in" their TMG project files and the database corruption is fixed by Wholly Genes. What happens if you need to do this after the current support period runs out and there is no longer "official" product support? If no-one volunteers (or for pay) to assist with database "fixing" in the future, then maybe your backups can be reverted to, with some loss of data from the time of the last backup. At any rate, I think that evaluating other software, testing data imports, and coming up with an exit strategy is a good idea. Tom M.

To be fair, while the RootsWeb mailing list for Legacy is pretty quiet, it has two other non-RootsWeb mailing lists which are more active: http://www.mail-archive.com/legacyusergroup@legacyusers.com/maillist.html and LegacyFS for FamilySearch related functions (no archive URL published) - see http://www.legacyfamilytree.com/LegacyLists.asp Likewise, in addition to the RootsMagicUsers-L on RootsWeb at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/ROOTSMAGIC-USERS/ the company hosts on its own servers forums for its products at http://forums.rootsmagic.com/ Tom On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 10:02 AM, sheilaxyz1 via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > 3 -- The RootsMagic rootsweb mailing list has more activity than the Legacy > list. This means user to user support if you have questions on how to do > things. >

Sheila - I've been using TMG for a long time and will miss it's functionality. Of all the software packages currently out there, a BIG reason I picked RootsMagic was because of the SQL capabilities. I know from using Microsoft Access and Excel and their SQL/ODBC functions to collate data, I could use the SQL to create reports that were filtered very similar to how I use TMG filters and reports. Please note I said "how I use TMG". I think everyone who currently uses TMG needs to decide what elements are the most important to them... or just make a long list like Barbara has on the new website... ranking the abilities and functions for themselves. Once the ranked list is made, then that person can compare their personal list to the other packages out there and see which is the best fit. Julie On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 10:02 AM, <sheilaxyz1@gmail.com> wrote: > I've just recently purchased RootsMagic and Legacy. Haven't done much of > anything with either one yet. I'm leaning towards RootsMagic, though, for > the following reasons. > 1 -- They quickly delivered a TMG Direct Import and after the initial > release quickly released an update to address some user concerns > 2 -- The database is accessible and updateable by users Proficient in > SQLLight. This allows super users like Tom Holden to create and share > scripts to help with data clean up > 3 -- The RootsMagic rootsweb mailing list has more activity than the > Legacy list. This means user to user support if you have questions on how > to do things. > > I'm nowhere near ready to commit to another package though. I'm still > holding out to see which is willing to expand their functionality to > incorporate some of the TMG features. > > Sheila Altenbernd > > -----Original Message----- From: Julie Rosales via > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 8:49 AM > To: tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] Move completed! > > > I worked with RootsMagic during the development of the TMG import, and the > handling of my sentences, roles and witnesses are now supurb! I will be > switching to RM once I get my backlog of data entered into TMG. > > Julie > >> >> On 9/25/2014 10:56 PM, karenhappuch via wrote: >> > I acquired a second home, Legacy, in August and completed the move this >> morning. My genealogy data and research now have two homes, TMG ad >> Legacy. There are, of course, lots of things to be done in the "second >> home", but those can be done while I'm fully using the program. >> > >