Hi Tom, My sympathy to you and your family. This is a time that makes us all pause to reflect on what is really important. Barbara L. On 9/29/2014 1:14 AM, Tom via wrote: > My daughter-in-law went into cardiac arrest the night before last. The > Doctor’s were not able to save her and life support has been removed. She is > expected to pass away anytime between now and 4 days from now. It is a very > sad and trying time for the entire family. > > I know I’ve got several things on the website that I’m working on. I’m going > to try for just a little bit each day or every other day until things start > to get back to normal. Please be patient with me until I can get back on > track a bit. > > I have been able to look at the website. It’s growing wonderfully! A big tip > of my hat to the contributors. Smile > > Tom Dunaway > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Barbara Levergood levergood@att.net

(I meant to send this to the list.) I think there might have to be more than five top wants, just for functionality of data transferred. I don't use roles, split memos or split citations. I do attach everyone in a record to the event. Everyone. Occasionally, but not very often, I need to sort sources. I do use Alternate Names. If it couldn't be an Alternate Name, it could be a Second Name (or whatever). In genealogical research, I think it is important to note alternate spellings and to be searchable in a Pick List (or whatever it would be called). I do write a lot of text and need a decent Tag Entry Screen. Reports are very important to me and especially the Individual Narrative Report in TMG. I enter flags but could live without them. I need an Associates window to track migrations, and I very much like having the choice to have (in TMG) Details, Children, Siblings and Associates all showing on one screen. This saves lots of time. I also like to be able to look at the children by different wives (or husbands) in the Family window. This is just off the top of my head. Frankie In a message dated 9/28/2014 10:17:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com writes: Agree except that I doubt there would be concensus on a "top five" wants list. The TMG mail list posts are not representative of average TMG users. This TMG-Refugees list is much less so. I've been in a TMG users' group for around 11 years with quite a few people coming and going. Most don't use roles, don't split memos, don't split CDs... I suspect that's true of the majority of TMG users. Items such as alternate names, quality of narrative and other reports, place entry more like TMG's, and sort date might be more likely to make a "top five" list. Bob Velke, in his July announcement, stated there is an insufficient market for advanced features. Other programs may not be willing to take that risk. For the record, I do use roles including occasionally principal roles, do split memos, and do sometimes split citations. Barbara S.

Hi Tom, I meant to answer your comments before, but I had to go out of town and then had guests in town. I thought it was important to say why I've made some of my Memo fields long. One reason is that I did it because I could. Before I ever purchased a genealogical program -- ever -- I wanted to know how much I could *write* in it. The companion reason is that I wanted to place *all* information regarding an event into a program, and I wanted to write it into the program so that it would come out like a potential book, with little editing. I've been able to do this in TMG. I think that some other TMG users do this, too. I guess I would ask the question, where would a user put information on a probate that went on for years and years, or another event that contained an enormous amount of information? It could be split up into more than one Tag (or whatever), but this wasn't necessary in TMG. I don't just do BMDB's. I write histories. What do other folks do who like to put *all* information on an event into a program and/or who want to write the text that would need little editing when spit out into a report form? I would be very interested to know. Thanks. Frankie In a message dated 9/25/2014 10:04:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com writes: Wow, Frankie! I would never have contemplated putting so much into a field named Memo or Note. Maybe one called Book! I was facetious in saying that the limit was far more than anyone would read and, maybe, too hasty in my reply. I was thinking about the RootsMagic database engine (SQLite) capacity which I knew to be very large and, on looking it up, is 140 terabytes. That's a lot of pages. But there are other limitations, such as the file size supported by the operating system, database parameter settings controlled by the application, the memory space supported by the application for a text field, etc. And there is a more practical matter, what the RootsMagic Note Editor is capable of doing and how well it can manage a document. RootsMagic's Note Editor is more like Notepad than it is like Wordpad. IIRC, if you open a text file with Notepad that is too large for it, Wordpad opens the file instead. I don't know what the RM Note Editor limit is but I certainly would not want to be editing/managing a 90-page document in it. Not even in Wordpad. I would want to do that in Word or some other substantial document writer with features such as outlining, headings, hyperlinking, auto table of contents, indexing, etc. I would not/could not store it in the database system as there is no mechanism in RootsMagic for directly storing it in RTF, DOC, PDF format (I could store it in the database file using SQLite but RootsMagic either could not see it or would not know how to render it). I could link the external document to the database as a media item (object), to as many persons, families, events, places, sources, citations as I want. I would copy supportive extracts from it to Citations (Research Notes), fact notes, etc and these can optionally be printed. I could integrate a RTF "book" generated from the database with one or more of these external documents using MS Word. So, my short answer to your question is I do not know if the RootsMagic Note field can store your 90 pages and it seems like an extraordinary, if not unreasonable, expectation that anyone would do so. It would be nice to know what its limit is - someday I may test it. Tom On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 12:38 PM, <Frlva@aol.com> wrote: > (I meant to send this also to the list. Sorry.) > > Thank you, Tom. I don't use either the Split Memo function in TMG. I > don't use Roles, either. I never really thought either were necessary. Yes, > however, folks *will* read my long Memos and even have done so! <g> I think > I have about 90 pages (8 1/2 x 11 pages) in one Memo, but that is, by far, > the longest one I have and is basically the Revolutionary War service of > one ancestor for an eventual book. Would that be too much for Roots Magic? > I also have some probates that extended for many, many years and some > extensive court cases that could have "umpteen" depositions, etc. > > I also cannot do the southern migration work that I do without the (sort > of) relationality of TMG, where I can attach as many Witnesses as I want to > any event. This is the main way I track folks. I also just love the > Associates window of TMG. > > Thanks very much for your comments, Tom. I appreciate them. > > Frankie > > In a message dated 9/24/2014 11:42:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com writes: > > TMG Memo fields transfer to RootsMagic Note fields which are, practically, > unlimited. (There is always a limit but you will never reach it and nobody > would read it!). > > Custom sentences and citations do transfer to RootsMagic but the accuracy > of translation depends on what you have constructed. The use of split Memo > fields is not yet supported by the import and may never be. I wrote a > post-process query to adapt split Citation Details. That said, if Legacy > succeeds in supporting split Memos, RootsMagic may feel pressed to do > likewise. > > Explore your options. The free RootsMagic trial does the direct import, as > will Legacy's (I expect) and as does Family Historian. They should all > improve over time... > > Tom > > > > *** To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I tend to agree with John. I also think that what program everyone selects to migrate to will have to be based on that person's most important attributes. Some folks will stay with TMG for years and years and others will stay for a shorter period of time probably based on when there's a TMG error or dll or other file that cannot be corrected due to a windows update or other software update. Realistically, the top 5 list will not be the same for everyone. On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 8:54 PM, John Nunnally via < tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Folks, I'm concerned that our expectations may be unrealistic. After > following this list and the regular TMG list for a while, I get the sense > that many people seem to assume that all other packages aspire to be TMG > and > they just haven't gotten there yet. So we will just sit back and wait for > the other packages to "mature" to the point we can utilize them. > > So far, I haven't seen that attitude on the part of any of the other > packages. In fact, there has already been some push back from the > RootsMagic community. A post by one person on the RootsMagic list said > [paraphrase], "I looked at TMG and did not like it. That is why I am a RM > user. I don't want RM to become TMG!" That post received quite a few > rather emphatic "me too's!" Another post I saw was frustrated with the > fact > that TMG import seemed to have captured all of the attention of the > RootsMagic developers to the exclusion of issues of importance to the > RootsMagic community. > > The list of features on our web site fundamentally says, "Nothing else is > adequate. I want my TMG!" That may be exactly the way we feel, but I > doubt > is a realistic expectation. There appears to be little hope if any that > someone is going to "clone" TMG. > > My impression is that these other packages are scrambling to make TMG > import > as friendly as possible, but primarily it is an effort to shoehorn as much > TMG data into their existing packages as possible. I have seen almost no > indication that they are interested in implementing TMG features. > Certainly > if new features come along, it does not appear they will happen any time > soon and they probably will not be driven by the desires of the TMG > community. > > They may implement a few features that 1) they consider a good fit with > their existing product, 2) that would be useful to their current user > community, and 3) would also assist with TMG migration. But the first two > criterion will be weighted much more heavily than the third. For example, > I > think it was already on the RootsMagic wish list to handle alternate names > a > little more like TMG. > > After a while, I anticipate these other packages will move on with little > or > no further concern for compatibility with the obsolete TMG package that has > fewer and fewer users every month. > > For this TMG-REFUGEES effort to be the most effective, I think 1) we need > to > be producing a "top 5 list" of the features most important to TMG users, 2) > We should consider how our TMG data could best be moved into the existing > structures of the other programs instead of expecting the other programs to > adapt to our TMG data, and 3) those of us who have some programming > expertise may need to collaborate on how TMG data can be "massaged" en > masse > to better fit the format of other programs. > > > John N. > > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Good idea, Richard. For RootsMagic, this should help: http://sqlitetoolsforrootsmagic.wikispaces.com/RM+Database+Design It's not official, unlike the document for TMG. Tom > On Sep 29, 2014, at 12:08 AM, Richard J Otter via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > I'd like to start work on a topic that deals with the different database > schemas used by the various programs and how the schema affects data > transfer. > >

Tom, My condolences to you and your family. Don't worry about the web site. You have more important things on your plate right now. Sheila Altenbernd -----Original Message----- From: Tom via Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 12:14 AM To: TMG-REFUGEES@rootsweb.com Subject: [REFUGEES] My website contribution... My daughter-in-law went into cardiac arrest the night before last. The Doctor’s were not able to save her and life support has been removed. She is expected to pass away anytime between now and 4 days from now. It is a very sad and trying time for the entire family. I know I’ve got several things on the website that I’m working on. I’m going to try for just a little bit each day or every other day until things start to get back to normal. Please be patient with me until I can get back on track a bit. I have been able to look at the website. It’s growing wonderfully! A big tip of my hat to the contributors. Smile Tom Dunaway *** To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My thoughts are with you and your family at this difficult time. Judy On Sep 29, 2014 1:15 AM, "Tom via" <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > My daughter-in-law went into cardiac arrest the night before last. The > Doctor’s were not able to save her and life support has been removed. She > is > expected to pass away anytime between now and 4 days from now. It is a very > sad and trying time for the entire family. > > I know I’ve got several things on the website that I’m working on. I’m > going > to try for just a little bit each day or every other day until things start > to get back to normal. Please be patient with me until I can get back on > track a bit. > > I have been able to look at the website. It’s growing wonderfully! A big > tip > of my hat to the contributors. Smile > > Tom Dunaway > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I don't think there is any worry about unrealistic expectations. The purpose of the list and website, in addition to giving us somewhere to discuss all this, is to inform ourselves and other TMG users about the capabilities and issues of other programs and how to get TMG to play as well as possible with them as we move away from TMG. That has nothing to do with what the other companies decide to support or not. If they choose to listen in and get good ideas, that's great, but the momentum is the movement away from TMG, not the movement toward any particular package. What I hope you'll use the list and website for is first of all, to expose all those little items we've been depending on all these years so that anyone leaving TMG--whenever that may be--thinks about those things and how they affect them, and second, John N's item #2: figuring out how best to adapt ourselves to other programs. I'm delighted that people are coming forward with tools to make that easier as well, and I like seeing the personal experiences as people try things. Barbara Refugees list mom On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 5:39 AM, Julie Rosales via < tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > I tend to agree with John. I also think that what program everyone selects > to migrate to will have to be based on that person's most important > attributes. > Some folks will stay with TMG for years and years and others will stay for > a shorter period of time probably based on when there's a TMG error or dll > or other file that cannot be corrected due to a windows update or other > software update. > > > Realistically, the top 5 list will not be the same for everyone. > -- Barbara Zanzig TMG-REFUGEES list admin admin email: *TMG-REFUGEES-admin@rootsweb.com <TMG-REFUGEES-admin@rootsweb.com>* list address: *http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/TMG-REFUGEES.html <http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/TMG-REFUGEES.html>* list website: *https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees <https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees>*

My daughter-in-law went into cardiac arrest the night before last. The Doctor’s were not able to save her and life support has been removed. She is expected to pass away anytime between now and 4 days from now. It is a very sad and trying time for the entire family. I know I’ve got several things on the website that I’m working on. I’m going to try for just a little bit each day or every other day until things start to get back to normal. Please be patient with me until I can get back on track a bit. I have been able to look at the website. It’s growing wonderfully! A big tip of my hat to the contributors. Smile Tom Dunaway

John (regarding your message pasted below), The way I see it is that we're in it for the long haul and it's all about figuring out an exit strategy. Some TMG users will "jump" early and others will wait. This list is great in that users in the TMG list complained about chatter related about finding another program to move to. So, whether in the short or long haul, the issues can be freely discussed here - that's great! TMG user expectations may be realistic or unrealistic as you note below; doesn't matter to me, as this will sort out over time. I doubt whether other "packages" as you note below aspire to be like TMG, agreed. I concur with your notes that other software programs will react over time, adding TMG direct import or enhanced gedcom import changes may also improve over time, and existing users may complain over resources diverted, OK. So what. Their user base will grow and their otherwise shorter term goals may move out a bit. So what, they will complain on their lists, and we will advocate for and figure out our own TMG exit strategies. You advocated for a "top 5 list" of TMG features. My take is that an overall comparison list as already posted as a goal by this TMG Refugees list would be more helpful to me than a condensed top 5 list. In other words, your "top 5" may be different than my "top 5." It's also a daily moving target. Example, several TMG users noted that TMG person ID number does not "port" over to RM. In less than one day, a RM user wrote a sql lite routine to convert the RM person ID to the TMG person ID numbers. Similarly, when we raised the issue of lack of latitude/longitude import to RM, that was addressed / solved in a few days time - it's all a moving target. You said, "2) We should consider how our TMG data could best be moved into the existing structures of the other programs instead of expecting the other programs to adapt to our TMG data." Agreed. There is a RootsMagic document prepared with assistance of expert TMG user input advising of changes within TMG prior to an import to RootsMagic. So, each one of us can review and figure out which of the recommendations we choose to work on within TMG and which ones we postpone due to amount of change and/or work involved, etc, knowing that future RM changes may lessen the changes or another software may do it better. I agree with your comment that users posting here, "... expecting the other programs to adapt to our TMG data" is unrealistic. However, my takeaway in those quick reads is simply to note the TMG features so as to understand how it affects my TMG projects. Tom M. > -----Original Message----- > From: tmg-refugees-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:tmg-refugees- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Nunnally via > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 8:54 PM > To: tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] Reality check.. > > Folks, I'm concerned that our expectations may be unrealistic. After following > this list and the regular TMG list for a while, I get the sense that many people > seem to assume that all other packages aspire to be TMG and they just > haven't gotten there yet. So we will just sit back and wait for the other > packages to "mature" to the point we can utilize them. > > So far, I haven't seen that attitude on the part of any of the other packages. > In fact, there has already been some push back from the RootsMagic > community. A post by one person on the RootsMagic list said [paraphrase], "I > looked at TMG and did not like it. That is why I am a RM user. I don't want > RM to become TMG!" That post received quite a few rather emphatic "me > too's!" Another post I saw was frustrated with the fact that TMG import > seemed to have captured all of the attention of the RootsMagic developers to > the exclusion of issues of importance to the RootsMagic community. > > The list of features on our web site fundamentally says, "Nothing else is > adequate. I want my TMG!" That may be exactly the way we feel, but I doubt > is a realistic expectation. There appears to be little hope if any that someone > is going to "clone" TMG. > > My impression is that these other packages are scrambling to make TMG > import as friendly as possible, but primarily it is an effort to shoehorn as > much TMG data into their existing packages as possible. I have seen almost > no indication that they are interested in implementing TMG features. > Certainly if new features come along, it does not appear they will happen any > time soon and they probably will not be driven by the desires of the TMG > community. > > They may implement a few features that 1) they consider a good fit with their > existing product, 2) that would be useful to their current user community, and > 3) would also assist with TMG migration. But the first two criterion will be > weighted much more heavily than the third. For example, I think it was > already on the RootsMagic wish list to handle alternate names a little more > like TMG. > > After a while, I anticipate these other packages will move on with little or no > further concern for compatibility with the obsolete TMG package that has > fewer and fewer users every month. > > For this TMG-REFUGEES effort to be the most effective, I think 1) we need to > be producing a "top 5 list" of the features most important to TMG users, 2) > We should consider how our TMG data could best be moved into the existing > structures of the other programs instead of expecting the other programs to > adapt to our TMG data, and 3) those of us who have some programming > expertise may need to collaborate on how TMG data can be "massaged" en > masse to better fit the format of other programs. > > > John N. > > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message

John, I agree, if you want a program to be exactly (or very close to) TMG, then you want TMG, I seriously doubt any other program is going to do everything the same way. At a recent users group meeting, one of the sources of some of TMG's problems was that for many years TMG has been too many new features that didn't really fit its core goals and this has lead to some database instability. This was somewhat caused by TMG trying to meet the needs of the UFT refugees that migrated to TMG. They put forward that they hoped that what ever platform absorbs much of the TMG crowd doesn;t make the same mistake. The one hope I see for gettting a TMG "look-alike" would be if someone/group takes on a project of creating such a platform knowing it won't be a "financially viable" (and thus likely done under some open source banner). Such a project will likely take years, and very likely won't be as "polished" as a commercial platform. All the commercial platforms that I have seen seem to be based at least loosely on the GEDCOM model. Since one of the principals of TMG was to not be constrained to that model, we have ended up with features, that some have come to depend on, that don't mesh well with other programs. Some features that aren't directly supported by standard GEDCOM have been adopted by some programs, things like being able to attach additional participants to an event (and these were adopted in a way that worked with private extensions to GEDCOM, unlike the way TMG did). Perhaps some additional feature will work there way into some of the packages, but I surely don't expect all, or even most, of the features unique to TMG to make it into other programs. A few things that I think are unlikely to be added to other packages: * The rich multi-language capability of TMG. Many packages support multiple languages, but I don't see them supporting TMG's ability to support multiple languages in a single database, and selecting the language on a report basis. * Having a source definition as complicated at TMG. TMG has way more parameters on a source than any other program. GEDCOM supports only a few parameters for a source. While a program could define some extras as extensions, I can't see that many being added in a program, and with all the flexibility. * Having a large number (9) of Citation Details. Again, this makes source much more complicated that GEDCOM. * Multiple Memo Fields (9). GEDCOM lets you attach a note field to an event, but really only a single one. There are limited other fields for some tags, that might provide an additional field, but not the 9 fields of TMG.

I posted notes about RootsMagic's comparison to TMG's master source lists here (and copied below): http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/TMG/2014-09/1411780574 I saw messages in this list where comparison notes are added to or made in a google list or wiki group. So, if this topic is not already included, (anyone) feel free to add the following. TMG Master Source List: A source number is shown (exposed or added), is sortable in the master source list (along with sortable source name), can be renumbered, and source visibility in the list turned on and off (to make for a shorter more useable/navigable source list). There are many "aids" in the TMG Master Source List, refer to TMG. RootsMagic Master Source List: No source number is shown (exposed or added), therefore, there is no sort on a source number, no source visibility (all sources are always shown), no search feature, no other "aids" similar to those in the TMG Master Source List. Tom M. > -----Original Message----- > From: tmg-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:tmg-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Tom Holden via > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 10:26 AM > To: TMG List > Subject: Re: [TMG] RootsMagic direct import released > > Valid point. RM's hidden SourceID could be exposed and sortable in the > program. A SQLite query that would do so externally is trivial. > > RM does have a Date Last Edited field for a person so one can look > back through the People View sorted on that field and get at recently > used sources that way, not just recently created ones. > > For filing of sources, RM has a user entered Source Reference Number. > > Tom H Tom H, (second time to list with revision, first message noted as not delivered, but may later on ??) Thanks for reviewing and responding to the comments from TMG users noting the importance of and their use of TMG Source numbers. TMG source numbers are visible, sortable, can be renumbered, and visibility in the source list can be turned off (or back on). It's my take that they start at "1" and continue incrementally as sources are added (from my user perspective, I'm not a programmer). Whether there is a behind the scenes program assigned number and second visible number, I don't know. As you confirmed, RM does not show a source number in the master source list and as you said, does not expose the Source ID #. This conversation is starting to remind me of the discussion on the TMG person ID # and "port" of it over to RM. Understand that my goal is not to remake RM in the likeness of TMG; it is only to evaluate RM, Legacy, FH, etc, and formulate a TMG exit strategy. By calling to your attention these differences in master source lists between RM and TMG, I'm hoping for changes in RM master source list. You said: > Valid point. RM's hidden SourceID could be exposed and sortable in the > program. A SQLite query that would do so externally is trivial. My guess is that the above may be useful, however, may be more functional and productive if done in the program itself. Also, whether the "RM hidden SourceID" is exposed and sortable versus having a hidden number and separate visible number is worth consideration. So, for instance, from what others said here, it would be terrific if a RM Source number is exposed or added, can import or be changed to match TMG source number, can be sortable in the master source list (along with sortable source name), can be renumbered, and source visibility in the list turned on and off (to make for a shorter more useable/navigable source list). Also, thanks for mentioning the RM source reference number. I missed that in my initial look in the program. There is a similar field in TMG and in that field is my "file number" that helps me locate the digital and hard copy (original and/or copy) items. I don't directly use the TMG source number for filing as others mentioned doing, but do use the TMG Source number in other ways. Tom M.

I'd like to start work on a topic that deals with the different database schemas used by the various programs and how the schema affects data transfer. My import of a TMG project by Roots Magic looked great- especially given all of my failed attempts trying to get Family Tree Maker 2014 to import TMG. However, it looks like all of the source citations attached to parent-child relationship events are lost. I see a button that displays "family sources" and I guess the relationship event citations could be lumped together there, but none are. Same for relationship event memos. There's a "family note", but it's always empty.

Folks, I'm concerned that our expectations may be unrealistic. After following this list and the regular TMG list for a while, I get the sense that many people seem to assume that all other packages aspire to be TMG and they just haven't gotten there yet. So we will just sit back and wait for the other packages to "mature" to the point we can utilize them. So far, I haven't seen that attitude on the part of any of the other packages. In fact, there has already been some push back from the RootsMagic community. A post by one person on the RootsMagic list said [paraphrase], "I looked at TMG and did not like it. That is why I am a RM user. I don't want RM to become TMG!" That post received quite a few rather emphatic "me too's!" Another post I saw was frustrated with the fact that TMG import seemed to have captured all of the attention of the RootsMagic developers to the exclusion of issues of importance to the RootsMagic community. The list of features on our web site fundamentally says, "Nothing else is adequate. I want my TMG!" That may be exactly the way we feel, but I doubt is a realistic expectation. There appears to be little hope if any that someone is going to "clone" TMG. My impression is that these other packages are scrambling to make TMG import as friendly as possible, but primarily it is an effort to shoehorn as much TMG data into their existing packages as possible. I have seen almost no indication that they are interested in implementing TMG features. Certainly if new features come along, it does not appear they will happen any time soon and they probably will not be driven by the desires of the TMG community. They may implement a few features that 1) they consider a good fit with their existing product, 2) that would be useful to their current user community, and 3) would also assist with TMG migration. But the first two criterion will be weighted much more heavily than the third. For example, I think it was already on the RootsMagic wish list to handle alternate names a little more like TMG. After a while, I anticipate these other packages will move on with little or no further concern for compatibility with the obsolete TMG package that has fewer and fewer users every month. For this TMG-REFUGEES effort to be the most effective, I think 1) we need to be producing a "top 5 list" of the features most important to TMG users, 2) We should consider how our TMG data could best be moved into the existing structures of the other programs instead of expecting the other programs to adapt to our TMG data, and 3) those of us who have some programming expertise may need to collaborate on how TMG data can be "massaged" en masse to better fit the format of other programs. John N.

Agree except that I doubt there would be concensus on a "top five" wants list. The TMG mail list posts are not representative of average TMG users. This TMG-Refugees list is much less so. I've been in a TMG users' group for around 11 years with quite a few people coming and going. Most don't use roles, don't split memos, don't split CDs... I suspect that's true of the majority of TMG users. Items such as alternate names, quality of narrative and other reports, place entry more like TMG's, and sort date might be more likely to make a "top five" list. Bob Velke, in his July announcement, stated there is an insufficient market for advanced features. Other programs may not be willing to take that risk. For the record, I do use roles including occasionally principal roles, do split memos, and do sometimes split citations. Barbara S. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Nunnally via" <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> To: <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] Reality check.. > Folks, I'm concerned that our expectations may be unrealistic. After > following this list and the regular TMG list for a while, I get the sense > that many people seem to assume that all other packages aspire to be TMG > and > they just haven't gotten there yet. So we will just sit back and wait for > the other packages to "mature" to the point we can utilize them. > > So far, I haven't seen that attitude on the part of any of the other > packages. In fact, there has already been some push back from the > RootsMagic community. A post by one person on the RootsMagic list said > [paraphrase], "I looked at TMG and did not like it. That is why I am a RM > user. I don't want RM to become TMG!" That post received quite a few > rather emphatic "me too's!" Another post I saw was frustrated with the > fact > that TMG import seemed to have captured all of the attention of the > RootsMagic developers to the exclusion of issues of importance to the > RootsMagic community. > > The list of features on our web site fundamentally says, "Nothing else is > adequate. I want my TMG!" That may be exactly the way we feel, but I > doubt > is a realistic expectation. There appears to be little hope if any that > someone is going to "clone" TMG. > > My impression is that these other packages are scrambling to make TMG > import > as friendly as possible, but primarily it is an effort to shoehorn as much > TMG data into their existing packages as possible. I have seen almost no > indication that they are interested in implementing TMG features. > Certainly > if new features come along, it does not appear they will happen any time > soon and they probably will not be driven by the desires of the TMG > community. > > They may implement a few features that 1) they consider a good fit with > their existing product, 2) that would be useful to their current user > community, and 3) would also assist with TMG migration. But the first two > criterion will be weighted much more heavily than the third. For example, > I > think it was already on the RootsMagic wish list to handle alternate names > a > little more like TMG. > > After a while, I anticipate these other packages will move on with little > or > no further concern for compatibility with the obsolete TMG package that > has > fewer and fewer users every month. > > For this TMG-REFUGEES effort to be the most effective, I think 1) we need > to > be producing a "top 5 list" of the features most important to TMG users, > 2) > We should consider how our TMG data could best be moved into the existing > structures of the other programs instead of expecting the other programs > to > adapt to our TMG data, and 3) those of us who have some programming > expertise may need to collaborate on how TMG data can be "massaged" en > masse > to better fit the format of other programs. > > > John N. > > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I have just developed a SQLite script to improve the resulting sentence templates. It includes the [PlaceDetails] addition and suppression of double prepositions for Date, Place and PlaceDetails. See http://sqlitetoolsforrootsmagic.wikispaces.com/TMG-RM+Fact+Sentence+Tweaks Another recent one not listed in the Sep 24 message below moves the Note value for a fact/event to its Description field, if that field is enabled. See http://sqlitetoolsforrootsmagic.wikispaces.com/Events+-+Move+Short+Note+to+Description Tom On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Tom Holden <ve3meo@gmail.com> wrote: > One of the virtues of RootsMagic is its readily accessible database. I > have been developing SQLite queries that can be run against it post-import > to affect some things not handled by the import. They demonstrate what > benefit (or complication) might be achieved were a similar process > incorporated in the import while leaving it to the user to decide which > outcome is better. Currently available are: > - Help finding sentences and notes having extant TMG variables and > formatting codes > - Support for split Citation Detail > - Map the TMG_ID (the person number familiar to you in TMG) to a Reference > Number fact for optional display after the name > - Replace the RootsMagic RIN with the TMG_ID number > Coming, I think, will be: > - Help finding sentences for individual events that contain variables for > couple events, e.g., [spouse] > - Add [PlaceDetails] variable to sentences constructed from TMG [L] > variable > - Modify [Date] variable to [Date:Plain] in sentence templates if a > leading preposition is detected > > Developed queries can be found via this link: > http://sqlitetoolsforrootsmagic.wikispaces.com/space/content?tag=TMG > > Tom > > >

Julie, I'm curious how you coped with RM only having a Principal role for P1. I've some 5,000 events over a number of tags in my TMG data where P1 has a role other than principal, with associated sentences that do assorted things, eg link to specific websites or simply make the narrative reports less bog standard/more interesting. Without the context of the role, a lot of these don't make much sense. To convert my main db to RM I'd be spending rather a lot of precious research time working on these 5,000+ creating adiditonal fact types to work around this issue, which clutters the fact/tag type list, unnecessarily in my opinion. Lorna Henderson http://LornaHen.com On 27/09/14 1:49, Julie Rosales via wrote: > Barbara wrote "My TMG global census sentences won't work in Legacy because > the two programs handle witnesses and roles differently." > > This is an absolute show stopper for me. I not only have custom census > sentences for a variety of roles, but also custom sentences for mariners (I > have alot of whaling captains, ship owners, etc.). > > I worked with RootsMagic during the development of the TMG import, and the > handling of my sentences, roles and witnesses are now supurb! I will be > switching to RM once I get my backlog of data entered into TMG. > > Julie > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Kathleen Lenihan via < > tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > >> I've been playing around with both RM and Legacy trying to determine >> which program I want to make my permanent "home". I find things I like >> about both programs, and it is a tough decision. Can you elaborate on >> why you find Legacy superior to RM? >> >> Kathleen L. >> >> On 9/25/2014 10:56 PM, karenhappuch via wrote: >>> I acquired a second home, Legacy, in August and completed the move this >> morning. My genealogy data and research now have two homes, TMG ad >> Legacy. There are, of course, lots of things to be done in the "second >> home", but those can be done while I'm fully using the program. >>> I've also imported my TMG project to RootsMagic both by Gedcom and by >> direct import include the most recent direct import. Plusses of the direct >> import are all the tag types and the witnesses and roles placed in the >> "share". Otherwise the RM direct import is inferior to my TMG 9.03 Gedcom >> import into Legacy. >>> The Legacy cleanup forced me to look at every person in my 6200 person >> main dataset. Was it time consuming? YES. Was it worth it? YES. I've >> identified new research to do and some individuals and families that need a >> closer look. >>> Census tags took much of my time. My TMG global census sentences won't >> work in Legacy because the two programs handle witnesses and roles >> differently. That was ok with me because they'd often required >> modification at the local level in TMG. I'd been wanting to change those >> for several years, so now it is done. The new ones work very well. >>> Barbara S. >>> >>> *** >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the message subject and body. >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> *** >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the message subject and body. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

If I understand this correctly. This is something you do after you have imported your data (post-import) - and ideally, I should try and change my citation details before importing - to only two fields CD1 and CD2. My census sources - have five or six, but two would help. At least then, i could keep the head of household name as one field and the rest of the census data in the other. Every bit helps. I will give it a try with my test data, I have already transferred. Thanks ~ Barb On Sep 28, 2014, at 9:14 AM, Tom Holden <ve3meo@gmail.com> wrote: > For a post-import process to convert Citation Details in RootsMagic having a single separator "||" to a split citation detail, see http://sqlitetoolsforrootsmagic.wikispaces.com/TMG-RootsMagic+Split+Citation+Details > > Tom > > > >> On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:56 AM, "Barb M. via" <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: >> >> I’m trying to figure out what to do and appreciate all your hard work. I’m wondering if under Software comparison, there is a place to list what transfers/imports to each of the new programs and what doesn’t. I don’t know where to start. It all seems overwhelming. I have been looking at Legacy, RM, and FH. >> >> Are there any tweaks anyone did with their TMG data - that helped with their import to another program. I saw the RM hints, but I’m more interested in things you can do - to your data in TMG before the import. >> >> I use roles and custom sentences. I use split citations with my sources. I use flags to help sort what exports to Second Site and what doesn’t. I’m not looking forward to moving my data. I think I can change most of my sources to get rid of the split citations (using TMG Utilities) - it will take awhile, but at least then, my data would transfer. Are there any software programs that transfer split citations. >> >> Thanks again >> >> ~ Barb >> >> >>> On Sep 27, 2014, at 6:06 PM, Barbara Levergood via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi folks, >>> >>> We are doing a bit of Fall cleaning on the website. >>> >>> The Functionalities page has been moved up one level in the hierarchy, >>> https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/functionalities >>> >>> Software Comparison's links are now listed in a more organized fashion >>> than before, >>> https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/software-comparison >>> >>> We are deleting stray pages, making sure that we don't omit any content. >>> >>> Finally, several people are hard at work on adding new content. >>> >>> There will be other changes, as is normal in a site under construction. >>> >>> Keep an eye on our progress. Pitch in on the website, in the comments, >>> or on this list as you wish! Questions and comments always welcome, >>> either on the list, to the List Admin, or to me. >>> >>> Barbara L. >>> >>> (Ask ListAdmin for access to the website.) >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Barbara Levergood >>> levergood@att.net >>> >>> *** >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> *** >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For a post-import process to convert Citation Details in RootsMagic having a single separator "||" to a split citation detail, see http://sqlitetoolsforrootsmagic.wikispaces.com/TMG-RootsMagic+Split+Citation+Details Tom > On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:56 AM, "Barb M. via" <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > I’m trying to figure out what to do and appreciate all your hard work. I’m wondering if under Software comparison, there is a place to list what transfers/imports to each of the new programs and what doesn’t. I don’t know where to start. It all seems overwhelming. I have been looking at Legacy, RM, and FH. > > Are there any tweaks anyone did with their TMG data - that helped with their import to another program. I saw the RM hints, but I’m more interested in things you can do - to your data in TMG before the import. > > I use roles and custom sentences. I use split citations with my sources. I use flags to help sort what exports to Second Site and what doesn’t. I’m not looking forward to moving my data. I think I can change most of my sources to get rid of the split citations (using TMG Utilities) - it will take awhile, but at least then, my data would transfer. Are there any software programs that transfer split citations. > > Thanks again > > ~ Barb > > >> On Sep 27, 2014, at 6:06 PM, Barbara Levergood via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: >> >> Hi folks, >> >> We are doing a bit of Fall cleaning on the website. >> >> The Functionalities page has been moved up one level in the hierarchy, >> https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/functionalities >> >> Software Comparison's links are now listed in a more organized fashion >> than before, >> https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/software-comparison >> >> We are deleting stray pages, making sure that we don't omit any content. >> >> Finally, several people are hard at work on adding new content. >> >> There will be other changes, as is normal in a site under construction. >> >> Keep an eye on our progress. Pitch in on the website, in the comments, >> or on this list as you wish! Questions and comments always welcome, >> either on the list, to the List Admin, or to me. >> >> Barbara L. >> >> (Ask ListAdmin for access to the website.) >> >> >> -- >> >> Barbara Levergood >> levergood@att.net >> >> *** >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Do changes after the import. Reasons: TMG output. Many of us will continue to use TMG for Second Site and/or some reports. I use Second Site and will contine to use it. I am not going to make TMG changes that will affect my desired SS output. There are also some TMG reports that I'll continue to use. Imports are still changing in the other programs. RM may issue another update to it's direct import. Legacy's direct import isn't out yet. FH might have some import change (not sure about that). Features might be added by other programs. Each program is different. Items that import well into one program will need cleanup in another program. Barbara S. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barb M. via" <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> To: "Tom Holden" <ve3meo@gmail.com> Cc: <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 6:37 AM Subject: Re: [TMG-REFUGEES] Fall cleaning If I understand this correctly. This is something you do after you have imported your data (post-import) - and ideally, I should try and change my citation details before importing - to only two fields CD1 and CD2. My census sources - have five or six, but two would help. At least then, i could keep the head of household name as one field and the rest of the census data in the other. Every bit helps. I will give it a try with my test data, I have already transferred. Thanks ~ Barb On Sep 28, 2014, at 9:14 AM, Tom Holden <ve3meo@gmail.com> wrote: > For a post-import process to convert Citation Details in RootsMagic having > a single separator "||" to a split citation detail, see > http://sqlitetoolsforrootsmagic.wikispaces.com/TMG-RootsMagic+Split+Citation+Details > > Tom > > > >> On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:56 AM, "Barb M. via" <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> >> wrote: >> >> I’m trying to figure out what to do and appreciate all your hard work. I’m >> wondering if under Software comparison, there is a place to list what >> transfers/imports to each of the new programs and what doesn’t. I don’t >> know where to start. It all seems overwhelming. I have been looking at >> Legacy, RM, and FH. >> >> Are there any tweaks anyone did with their TMG data - that helped with >> their import to another program. I saw the RM hints, but I’m more >> interested in things you can do - to your data in TMG before the import. >> >> I use roles and custom sentences. I use split citations with my sources. >> I use flags to help sort what exports to Second Site and what doesn’t. I’m >> not looking forward to moving my data. I think I can change most of my >> sources to get rid of the split citations (using TMG Utilities) - it will >> take awhile, but at least then, my data would transfer. Are there any >> software programs that transfer split citations. >> >> Thanks again >> >> ~ Barb >> >> >>> On Sep 27, 2014, at 6:06 PM, Barbara Levergood via >>> <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi folks, >>> >>> We are doing a bit of Fall cleaning on the website. >>> >>> The Functionalities page has been moved up one level in the hierarchy, >>> https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/functionalities >>> >>> Software Comparison's links are now listed in a more organized fashion >>> than before, >>> https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/software-comparison >>> >>> We are deleting stray pages, making sure that we don't omit any content. >>> >>> Finally, several people are hard at work on adding new content. >>> >>> There will be other changes, as is normal in a site under construction. >>> >>> Keep an eye on our progress. Pitch in on the website, in the comments, >>> or on this list as you wish! Questions and comments always welcome, >>> either on the list, to the List Admin, or to me. >>> >>> Barbara L. >>> >>> (Ask ListAdmin for access to the website.) >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Barbara Levergood >>> levergood@att.net >>> >>> *** >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the message subject and body. >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> *** >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the message subject and body. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message *** To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message