I've been doing some tests with RootsMagic and Legacy to see how easy it is to enter a household from the census. I don't know if anyone else is particularly interested in that, but I thought I'd post my experience in case it helps someone. I was concentrating on features that I have found to be helpful for the way I do things: - Not needing to repeatedly switch between the keyboard and mouse - A repeat key (or, less helpful, an autocomplete) - Being able to apply a source citation to all household members automatically - Being able to select which tags/events/facts appear in the entry form With both programs, I entered the same family from the 1910 census (two parents, 4 children). For each person, I entered name, gender, birth year, birth place, occupation, relationship, living flag, and a census source citation. I entered the marriage year of the parents. Both programs had features that helped streamline the process. Both had things I wish were better. RM: Plusses: - Alt-key equivalents for most mouse actions and tabbing between fields - autocomplete for place names based on places you've previously used - You can "Memorize" a single source citation and paste it into other family members - Person data entry form can be customized Minuses: - no repeat key Legacy: Plusses: - Keyboard shortcuts for most mouse actions and tabbing between most fields - repeat key for fields in the person entry form - "source clipboard" to copy and paste up to 10 source citations Minuses: - Some often-needed controls and options require the mouse (e.g. Living flag) - no repeat key in the source entry form - cannot customize data entry forms Based on this one small test, I believe I could make either program work for me. Each one has advantages over the other. RM does a better job of avoiding the need to shuffle between keyboard and mouse and lets you customize the fields that show up in the entry form. Legacy has a repeat key that's active in at least part of the entry process and has a more robust source copy/paste. Overall, I found it somewhat easier to enter the family in RM and if I had to choose between the two based on this one type of activity, I would probably select it. RM would be the clear winner if it had a repeat key. I'm just getting started with these programs and I may be unaware of some important features. If anyone sees something I overlooked, please let me know. I was using the paid version of RM (v6.3.3.0) and the trial version of LFT (v8.0.0.439) . Glenn Cox

I wonder if Norton was giving a false positive. I built a couple of websites on Google Sites and have found that an external URL is often wrapped in a Google redirect that gives a warning that you are leaving a secure site, I.e., going from https to http. Tom > On Sep 30, 2014, at 8:56 PM, Tom Momeyer via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Barbara, > > I wasn’t aware that my email to the admin at the google groups site and your > response were going to the TMG Refugees Rootsweb list, but that’s OK. > Thanks for reviewing and responding. > > As reported in my initial/previous email below, I (had) clicked on weblinks > on the RootsMagic support documentation page resulting in virus attacks on > my local PC as reported by Norton Antivirus. I copied the links to Notepad > and they showed as suspicious links and when I clicked on approx. 3 – 5 > weblinks on the page, they did not go to where they were supposed to go and > Norton Antivirus reported an immediate virus attack that it blocked. > > After you sent the message below, I went back to the site and under Recent > Site Activity it shows, “7 minutes ago, Tom Dunaway edited RootsMagic” and > now the links go to the correct locations. > > So, it appears that the previous weblinks on the TMG Refugees Google Groups > site were “hacked” or “virus” links. Under these circumstances, how can > “we” advise others to go to the google group site? Considering that someone > can and may have altered weblinks on the site, have you considered any > action to address that? > > Thanks, Tom M. > > From: Barbara Zanzig [mailto:bzanzig@gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 8:24 PM > To: Tom Momeyer; Refugees > Subject: Re: TMG Refugees google group > > I'm not seeing the same behavior with suspicious links, Tom. What I may have > seen is a malformed shortened URL? > > Yes, we've thought about the implications of write access. It's a mixed bag, > letting everyone write on the web page. Either one or a small group has to > maintain it--and then you rely on us having time to do it--or we let > everyone write on it, or we somehow manage what pages over 100 members have > write access to (which makes my head hurt, just thinking about it.) > > I don't think anyone is adding bad stuff intentionally and overall I'm very > happy with how people have managed the site. Mistakes may happen, but we'll > take care of them. > > I verify that people are subscribed to the mailing list before I add them to > the website. In addition, I see the log of every change--and you can > subscribe to that stream too if you wish to. > > If anyone DOES find a bad link, please remove it yourself or bring it to > mine or Barbara L's attention so we can take care of it. > > I'm thinking that we'll convert the website to mostly read-only after it > settles down a little bit, but until I see evidence of evil intent I'm > willing to have the risk of having the website open, for everyone's > convenience during this particularly active stage. We are monitoring and > have plans in place to close it down quickly if it comes under attack. > > Barbara > > On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Tom Momeyer <tom@momeyer.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Appreciate the work going into the TMG Refugees Rootsweb list and the Google > Groups site. As I explored the google groups site, I found that clicking on > a few of the weblinks leads to an internet virus attack that my Norton > Antivirus software stops and reports. Examples for locations include some > of the RootsMagic links on this page: > https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/support-documentation/roo > tsmagic. > > I copied some of the “links” noted above to notepad and see that the links > do not look like real and they do look suspicious. > > So, I also noticed that all members are given “write” privileges, so perhaps > this is how the bogus links crept in and must be one or more members with > “ill” intent? > > Has this been discussed or considered by the google group founder or > founders? Is it possible to have a google group allowing all member “write” > access without associated virus risks? > > Reason I’m asking, is that this weekend, I’m attending a local TMG & SS user > group meeting, where I have facilitated in the past and assisted others with > TMG and SS issues, setup, customization, etc. I’m sure that TMG demise will > come up, and I can offer some info on my explorations into RootsMagic, TMG > Refugees, etc, but don’t want to provide links to the google group that may > have virus links built in. > > Thanks, Tom > > — > Barbara Zanzig > TMG-REFUGEES list admin > admin email: TMG-REFUGEES-admin@rootsweb.com > list > address: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/TMG-RE > FUGEES.html > list website: https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees > > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Barbara, I wasn’t aware that my email to the admin at the google groups site and your response were going to the TMG Refugees Rootsweb list, but that’s OK. Thanks for reviewing and responding. As reported in my initial/previous email below, I (had) clicked on weblinks on the RootsMagic support documentation page resulting in virus attacks on my local PC as reported by Norton Antivirus. I copied the links to Notepad and they showed as suspicious links and when I clicked on approx. 3 – 5 weblinks on the page, they did not go to where they were supposed to go and Norton Antivirus reported an immediate virus attack that it blocked. After you sent the message below, I went back to the site and under Recent Site Activity it shows, “7 minutes ago, Tom Dunaway edited RootsMagic” and now the links go to the correct locations. So, it appears that the previous weblinks on the TMG Refugees Google Groups site were “hacked” or “virus” links. Under these circumstances, how can “we” advise others to go to the google group site? Considering that someone can and may have altered weblinks on the site, have you considered any action to address that? Thanks, Tom M. From: Barbara Zanzig [mailto:bzanzig@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 8:24 PM To: Tom Momeyer; Refugees Subject: Re: TMG Refugees google group I'm not seeing the same behavior with suspicious links, Tom. What I may have seen is a malformed shortened URL? Yes, we've thought about the implications of write access. It's a mixed bag, letting everyone write on the web page. Either one or a small group has to maintain it--and then you rely on us having time to do it--or we let everyone write on it, or we somehow manage what pages over 100 members have write access to (which makes my head hurt, just thinking about it.) I don't think anyone is adding bad stuff intentionally and overall I'm very happy with how people have managed the site. Mistakes may happen, but we'll take care of them. I verify that people are subscribed to the mailing list before I add them to the website. In addition, I see the log of every change--and you can subscribe to that stream too if you wish to. If anyone DOES find a bad link, please remove it yourself or bring it to mine or Barbara L's attention so we can take care of it. I'm thinking that we'll convert the website to mostly read-only after it settles down a little bit, but until I see evidence of evil intent I'm willing to have the risk of having the website open, for everyone's convenience during this particularly active stage. We are monitoring and have plans in place to close it down quickly if it comes under attack. Barbara On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Tom Momeyer <tom@momeyer.com> wrote: Hi,   Appreciate the work going into the TMG Refugees Rootsweb list and the Google Groups site.  As I explored the google groups site, I found that clicking on a few of the weblinks leads to an internet virus attack that my Norton Antivirus software stops and reports.  Examples for locations include some of the RootsMagic links on this page:  https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/support-documentation/roo tsmagic.   I copied some of the “links” noted above to notepad and see that the links do not look like real and they do look suspicious.   So, I also noticed that all members are given “write” privileges, so perhaps this is how the bogus links crept in and must be one or more members with “ill” intent?   Has this been discussed or considered by the google group founder or founders?  Is it possible to have a google group allowing all member “write” access without associated virus risks?   Reason I’m asking, is that this weekend, I’m attending a local TMG & SS user group meeting, where I have facilitated in the past and assisted others with TMG and SS issues, setup, customization, etc.  I’m sure that TMG demise will come up, and I can offer some info on my explorations into RootsMagic, TMG Refugees, etc, but don’t want to provide links to the google group that may have virus links built in.   Thanks, Tom   —  Barbara Zanzig TMG-REFUGEES list admin admin email: TMG-REFUGEES-admin@rootsweb.com list address: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/TMG-RE FUGEES.html list website: https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees 

If I may :) I found one of the offending URL's and immediately corrected it. I also noticed that several of our URL's are in fact search engine URL's, rather than the actual page. Tom, I'm convinced that the "bad" URL was there, but was entirely a mistake. I'll take a look at the other URL's and change them to the exact site or page. Tom Dunaway -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Zanzig via Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 8:24 PM To: Tom Momeyer ; Refugees Subject: Re: [REFUGEES] TMG Refugees google group I'm not seeing the same behavior with suspicious links, Tom. What I may have seen is a malformed shortened URL? Yes, we've thought about the implications of write access. It's a mixed bag, letting everyone write on the web page. Either one or a small group has to maintain it--and then you rely on us having time to do it--or we let everyone write on it, or we somehow manage what pages over 100 members have write access to (which makes my head hurt, just thinking about it.) I don't think anyone is adding bad stuff intentionally and overall I'm very happy with how people have managed the site. Mistakes may happen, but we'll take care of them. I verify that people are subscribed to the mailing list before I add them to the website. In addition, I see the log of every change--and you can subscribe to that stream too if you wish to. If anyone DOES find a bad link, please remove it yourself or bring it to mine or Barbara L's attention so we can take care of it. I'm thinking that we'll convert the website to mostly read-only after it settles down a little bit, but until I see evidence of evil intent I'm willing to have the risk of having the website open, for everyone's convenience during this particularly active stage. We are monitoring and have plans in place to close it down quickly if it comes under attack. Barbara On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Tom Momeyer <tom@momeyer.com> wrote: > Hi, > > > > Appreciate the work going into the TMG Refugees Rootsweb list and the > Google Groups site. As I explored the google groups site, I found that > clicking on a few of the weblinks leads to an internet virus attack that > my > Norton Antivirus software stops and reports. Examples for locations > include some of the RootsMagic links on this page: > https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/support-documentation/rootsmagic. > > > > > I copied some of the "links" noted above to notepad and see that the links > do not look like real and they do look suspicious. > > > > So, I also noticed that all members are given "write" privileges, so > perhaps this is how the bogus links crept in and must be one or more > members with "ill" intent? > > > > Has this been discussed or considered by the google group founder or > founders? Is it possible to have a google group allowing all member > "write" access without associated virus risks? > > > > Reason I'm asking, is that this weekend, I'm attending a local TMG & SS > user group meeting, where I have facilitated in the past and assisted > others with TMG and SS issues, setup, customization, etc. I'm sure that > TMG demise will come up, and I can offer some info on my explorations into > RootsMagic, TMG Refugees, etc, but don't want to provide links to the > google group that may have virus links built in. > > > > Thanks, Tom > > > > > -- Barbara Zanzig TMG-REFUGEES list admin admin email: *TMG-REFUGEES-admin@rootsweb.com <TMG-REFUGEES-admin@rootsweb.com>* list address: *http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/TMG-REFUGEES.html <http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/TMG-REFUGEES.html>* list website: *https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees <https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees>* *** To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi folks, Over on TMG-L, Jim P. asked: > I am particularly interested in what list members think about website facilities of other programs and perhaps they may be able to give me addresses to go to where I could look at what other people have done In response, Jan R. suggested: > This looks like a good topic for the folks on the TMG-Refugees list and Google site to add to the list of things they are collecting information about. http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/TMG/2014-09/1412111866 Indeed, Jan! Thanks for the plug! And thanks to Jim for asking about this. (Hopefully, Jim will soon be joining this list.) We haven't done much with reports and other output. Would someone like to look into what is available in TMG alternatives for the production of high-quality webpages/websites or add-on software available that can do so? To get us going on this topic... 1. I added the following as an important functionality to our list: Ability to produce high-quality webpages/websites or add-on software available that can do so. (As always, feel free to modify that.) https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/functionalities 2. I set up a new page under Software Comparison to explore: What are the capabilities of TMG-alternatives to produce high-quality webpages/websites or of available add-on software that can do so? https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/software-comparison/webpages 3. This page is also available for basic documentation for add-ons such as Second Site and other programs we learn about. https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/add-ons Barbara L. (Ask the ListAdmin for access to https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/.) -- Barbara Levergood levergood@att.net

I'm not seeing the same behavior with suspicious links, Tom. What I may have seen is a malformed shortened URL? Yes, we've thought about the implications of write access. It's a mixed bag, letting everyone write on the web page. Either one or a small group has to maintain it--and then you rely on us having time to do it--or we let everyone write on it, or we somehow manage what pages over 100 members have write access to (which makes my head hurt, just thinking about it.) I don't think anyone is adding bad stuff intentionally and overall I'm very happy with how people have managed the site. Mistakes may happen, but we'll take care of them. I verify that people are subscribed to the mailing list before I add them to the website. In addition, I see the log of every change--and you can subscribe to that stream too if you wish to. If anyone DOES find a bad link, please remove it yourself or bring it to mine or Barbara L's attention so we can take care of it. I'm thinking that we'll convert the website to mostly read-only after it settles down a little bit, but until I see evidence of evil intent I'm willing to have the risk of having the website open, for everyone's convenience during this particularly active stage. We are monitoring and have plans in place to close it down quickly if it comes under attack. Barbara On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Tom Momeyer <tom@momeyer.com> wrote: > Hi, > > > > Appreciate the work going into the TMG Refugees Rootsweb list and the > Google Groups site. As I explored the google groups site, I found that > clicking on a few of the weblinks leads to an internet virus attack that my > Norton Antivirus software stops and reports. Examples for locations > include some of the RootsMagic links on this page: > https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/support-documentation/rootsmagic. > > > > > I copied some of the "links" noted above to notepad and see that the links > do not look like real and they do look suspicious. > > > > So, I also noticed that all members are given "write" privileges, so > perhaps this is how the bogus links crept in and must be one or more > members with "ill" intent? > > > > Has this been discussed or considered by the google group founder or > founders? Is it possible to have a google group allowing all member > "write" access without associated virus risks? > > > > Reason I'm asking, is that this weekend, I'm attending a local TMG & SS > user group meeting, where I have facilitated in the past and assisted > others with TMG and SS issues, setup, customization, etc. I'm sure that > TMG demise will come up, and I can offer some info on my explorations into > RootsMagic, TMG Refugees, etc, but don't want to provide links to the > google group that may have virus links built in. > > > > Thanks, Tom > > > > > -- Barbara Zanzig TMG-REFUGEES list admin admin email: *TMG-REFUGEES-admin@rootsweb.com <TMG-REFUGEES-admin@rootsweb.com>* list address: *http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/TMG-REFUGEES.html <http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Miscellaneous/TMG-REFUGEES.html>* list website: *https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees <https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees>*

This sounds like a good addition to the Google site comparing the various products... Jan Begin forwarded message: > From: James Payne via <tmg@rootsweb.com> > Subject: [TMG] Looking at possibility of changing to a new program > Date: September 30, 2014 at 4:53:20 PM EDT > To: "TMG" <tmg@rootsweb.com> > Reply-To: James Payne <familytreesearching@gmail.com>, tmg@rootsweb.com > > I have been looking at the list messages but I haven’t seen any discussion on one point that particularly interests me – one thing that probably would make me decide on which new program to go to all other things being equal. > > > > I use John Cardinal’s Second Site program for displaying TMG on the internet. I have two public internet websites which I use as “mousetraps”  which have helped me to make contact with people who have the same interests as myself and there have also been other websites that need passwords in which I can share more details with family members. > > > > I am particularly interested in what list members think about website facilities of other programs and perhaps they may be able to give me addresses to go to where I could look at what other people have done > > > > TIA > > > > > > Jim > > familysearching@gmail.com <mailto:familysearching@gmail.com> > > http://shampayne.org.nz/ > > http://www.murchisonquake.shampayne.org.nz/ > > http://ourpedigrees.shampayne.org.nz/ > > > > > > > > > > The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ > Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks for your report, Barb. Do you use more splits than two? Tom On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Barb M. <bjmalloure@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Tom, > > Worked for me. Saved me tons of work. I’m not sure why I couldn’t get your > 2 CD script to work - I’m guessing it was something I did. I still feel > clueless, but making baby steps. Thank you again. > > > ~ Barb > > > > On Sep 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Tom Holden via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> > wrote: > > > My SQLite script now supports any number of split Citation Details up to > 9 > > parts ([CD1] to [CD9] for RootsMagic databases directly imported from > TMG. > > See: > > > > > http://sqlitetoolsforrootsmagic.wikispaces.com/TMG-RootsMagic+Split+Citation+Details > > > > Tom H > > *** > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the message subject and body. > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi Tom, Worked for me. Saved me tons of work. I’m not sure why I couldn’t get your 2 CD script to work - I’m guessing it was something I did. I still feel clueless, but making baby steps. Thank you again. ~ Barb On Sep 30, 2014, at 10:47 AM, Tom Holden via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: > My SQLite script now supports any number of split Citation Details up to 9 > parts ([CD1] to [CD9] for RootsMagic databases directly imported from TMG. > See: > > http://sqlitetoolsforrootsmagic.wikispaces.com/TMG-RootsMagic+Split+Citation+Details > > Tom H > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My SQLite script now supports any number of split Citation Details up to 9 parts ([CD1] to [CD9] for RootsMagic databases directly imported from TMG. See: http://sqlitetoolsforrootsmagic.wikispaces.com/TMG-RootsMagic+Split+Citation+Details Tom H

I made a similar suggestion on the main mailing list shortly after the announcement. It wasn't received very well. Most people preferred to think someone would take over TMG so they wouldn't have to make a change. I think we will have maximum leverage over the next few months. Other vendors would like to see TMG users move to them to increase their customer base. This is evident by the speed in which TMG Direct imports are surfacing. I think they will be willing to add some functionality as well as long as it doesn't conflict with their own conceptual design. (Which is what you were saying. It may be popular, but just not feasible to implement). We can't expect them to intuitively know what we want so we do need to specifically ask for it. And, we can't expect them to create something that looks just like TMG. I have made enhancement requests to both Legacy and RootsMagic to allow Alternate names to be linked to a tag and then use that name in the generated sentence. I have also asked for the ability to add multiple variables to the sentence construct either through a split memo function or multiple memo fields. Existing RootsMagic users have also been asking for this. I think that increases the chances of seeing it implemented. For RootsMagic, I have also submitted an enhancement request to allow a role to be assigned to principal. I have just recently purchased RootsMagic and Legacy. As I experiment with them, I expect to find more features I would like to see added. For the more critical ones, I will submit enhancement requests and post on the mailing lists. This will give existing users a chance to chime in that they also would like to see this (or in some cases say they hope it won't ever be implemented. :-)). Additionally, its an opportunity for existing users to offer a work around to achieve a similar outcome. Moving to new software is going to mean some things will need to be done differently. Discussions on the other mailing lists help identify other options. Who knows. Some of them may even turn out to be better than what we currently do with TMG. Sheila Altenbernd -----Original Message----- From: John Nunnally via Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 5:09 PM To: tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [REFUGEES] [TMG-REFUGEES] Reality check.. >> Agree except that I doubt there would be concensus on a "top five" wants list. The "top 5 list" suggestion apparently did not express what I meant to convey. I agree completely that we would each have our own list. But perhaps we should "vote" for the TMG features that are most important to us so a "top 5" most important features emerges. This might be very helpful to developers of other packages. Likewise, if a feature I have exploited extensively gets only one vote (mine), then I probably just need to assume that I will be on my own as far as getting my data transferred elsewhere. Quite a few years back, I participated in a very large users' group that made suggestions to the developers of the software we used. Obviously, the number of suggestions for the same feature greatly increased the probability that it might be considered. The company took the most requested suggestions and ranked them on a scale of 1 to 3 as to how well it fit with their concept of the product, and then the technical difficulty of implementing the suggestion. So a popular suggestion ranked P3,T1 was very likely to actually become part of the product. But even if a P1,T3 suggestion was very popular, it probably would never show up. I imagine this is exactly the kind of analysis going on with all of these developers. If we can help the developers prioritize based on how likely a feature is to attract TMG users, we do them and ourselves a favor. John N. *** To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Richard, Take a look at the ChildParent custom fact created by the import. Although there isn't any indication of which parent the note(s) included are from the notes and sources were migrated for me, on the ones I checked anyway. Lorna Henderson http://LornaHen.com On 29/09/14 17:08, Richard J Otter via wrote: > I'd like to start work on a topic that deals with the different database > schemas used by the various programs and how the schema affects data > transfer. > > My import of a TMG project by Roots Magic looked great- especially given > all of my failed attempts trying to get Family Tree Maker 2014 to import > TMG. > However, it looks like all of the source citations attached to parent-child > relationship events are lost. > > I see a button that displays "family sources" and I guess the relationship > event citations could be lumped together there, but none are. > Same for relationship event memos. There's a "family note", but it's always > empty. > > > > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

>> Agree except that I doubt there would be concensus on a "top five" wants list. The "top 5 list" suggestion apparently did not express what I meant to convey. I agree completely that we would each have our own list. But perhaps we should "vote" for the TMG features that are most important to us so a "top 5" most important features emerges. This might be very helpful to developers of other packages. Likewise, if a feature I have exploited extensively gets only one vote (mine), then I probably just need to assume that I will be on my own as far as getting my data transferred elsewhere. Quite a few years back, I participated in a very large users' group that made suggestions to the developers of the software we used. Obviously, the number of suggestions for the same feature greatly increased the probability that it might be considered. The company took the most requested suggestions and ranked them on a scale of 1 to 3 as to how well it fit with their concept of the product, and then the technical difficulty of implementing the suggestion. So a popular suggestion ranked P3,T1 was very likely to actually become part of the product. But even if a P1,T3 suggestion was very popular, it probably would never show up. I imagine this is exactly the kind of analysis going on with all of these developers. If we can help the developers prioritize based on how likely a feature is to attract TMG users, we do them and ourselves a favor. John N.

Barbara L., No, I didn't use tag mapping when doing my Legacy import/cleanup. I also didn't use it when comparing my gedcom imports to Legacy and RM. I did that in early August, played around with both programs, and took a close look a some selected people with lots of events. That included checking what tags imported, how they imported, and how clean their narrative reports were. With non-enhanced gedcoms the two programs failed to import a similar number of tags, but not the same tag types. (Some tags were accepted by one program and accepted by the other.) This possibly is no longer a problem with the now enhanced TMG gedcom export and with RM's direct export and Legacy's future direct export. I ran TMG List Of reports for each of the no-imported tag types and used the lists for cleanup. For me, Legacy imported tag events much more cleanly that either RM's gedcom import or RM's direct import. Only RM's direct import imports witnesses and roles. Hopefully Legacy's direct import will also do that. Witnesses and roles were by far the most time consuming part of my cleanup. Exclusions are another big issue. I didn't include them in my Legacy import and have in my RM imports. For me, it works best not to include them. That's because neither program handles that import well. Legacy recognizes only [[ ]] as exclusion markers, so { } show in Notes. RM recognizes { }, but not - or --. John Cardinal told me how to check for exclusions with TMGU in a post on the TMG list. Barbara S. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Levergood via" <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> To: "Richard J Otter" <rjo7@Columbia.edu>; <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 7:29 AM Subject: Re: [REFUGEES] topic for website > On what I think is a related topic, I was chatting with someone about > collaboratively creating a mapping from TMG built-in tag types to what > ....

Not sure where this would go on the wiki, particularly as it is a feature TMG does not have, but may influence the choice of eventual replacement Add ons? The reason I had already started using RMagic for a particular project was their FamilySearch familytree integration. Comparisons: TMG - can search via Web > Search the web menu - no direct integration with FamilySearch - need to create your own method of storing linking FamilySearch ids RootsMagic v6.3.3.1 - fully integrates with FamilySearch (can look for matches, link to match, and share data and sources, FamilySearch ID stored, easily navigated to from RM/FamilySearch tree) Legacy v8 - fully integrates with FamilySearch (but nowhere near as seamlessly within Legacy as RM as far as I could tell and why I chose RM for this project in the first place, along with the underlying RM database) Reunion v10 - no FamilySearch integration now or planned (http://www.reuniontalk.com/showthread.php?t=9135) MacFamilyTree v7 - has support for FamilySearch (also on updateable ipad version MobileFamilyTree). (I've not fully explored, but seems to allow comparisons, ID stored, but cannot updated FamilySearch) https://familysearch.org/products/ lists the programs and facilities by Web/Windows/Mac/Mobile -- Lorna Henderson http://LornaHen.com

Super idea, Barbara. Thank you! - Frankie In a message dated 9/29/2014 10:30:17 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com writes: It would be great if someone would collect sources of database design information for each of the programs. For reference purposes, I added a Database Design section on each program's page at https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/support-documentation and added Tom H.'s link to the RM page. Barbara On 9/29/2014 8:21 AM, Tom Holden via wrote: > Good idea, Richard. For RootsMagic, this should help: > http://sqlitetoolsforrootsmagic.wikispaces.com/RM+Database+Design > > It's not official, unlike the document for TMG. > > Tom > > > >> On Sep 29, 2014, at 12:08 AM, Richard J Otter via <tmg-refugees @rootsweb.com> wrote: >> >> I'd like to start work on a topic that deals with the different database >> schemas used by the various programs and how the schema affects data >> transfer. >> >> > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Barbara Levergood levergood@att.net *** To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Julie, >Are all your issues with marriage tags? No. Now that I look closer, role names and thus sentences for both P1 AND P2 for all events imported as (fam) facts vanish, and all P1 role names/sentences for those imported as P1 and witness/share for non (fam) facts. As RM doesn't have roles for principals this isn't surprising but very disappointing. I would hope not to have lost the role name(s) and sentences. As these issues are with any P1 that has a role, or any resulting (fam) fact with P1 and P2 over a variety of tags and a variety of roles, it isn't exactly conducive to bulk pre-import preparation using TMGUtility. Hard slog thru over now well over 5000+ events is not something I'm about to do until I have to. (my first query to re-quantify this for me showed 26,000 + people affected, but I think that's a miscount, but even it if it isn't, it's only the people not the events, which would be higher) When/if I have to I'd probably be creating separate facts to cope with the assorted situations I decide to preserve the sentences for. My two principal tags imported fine, between couples as (fam) facts where RM has family facts, and as P1 with P2 shifted to witness aka shared for non family facts BUT the role name has vanished for principals, and thus the related sentences. Witness/shares look fine for those I've actually examined. Do you not use roles in your project? Lorna Henderson http://LornaHen.com On 29/09/14 1:13, Julie wrote: > Lorna, > There's a problem with marriage tags but not with anything else at the moment (at least in my file). When working with RM guys and the import software I believe the P1 issues are when RM expects 2 principals... Like in a marriage. > Are all your issues with marriage tags? > Julie > > > Sent from Julie's iPhone > Visit www.jrwhiskey.com > >> On Sep 27, 2014, at 5:51 PM, LornaMoa <lornamoa@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Julie, >> I'm curious how you coped with RM only having a Principal role for P1. >> I've some 5,000 events over a number of tags in my TMG data where P1 has a role other than principal, with associated sentences that do assorted things, eg link to specific websites or simply make the narrative reports less bog standard/more interesting. >> Without the context of the role, a lot of these don't make much sense. >> To convert my main db to RM I'd be spending rather a lot of precious research time working on these 5,000+ creating adiditonal fact types to work around this issue, which clutters the fact/tag type list, unnecessarily in my opinion. >> >> Lorna Henderson >> http://LornaHen.com >> >>> On 27/09/14 1:49, Julie Rosales via wrote: >>> Barbara wrote "My TMG global census sentences won't work in Legacy because >>> the two programs handle witnesses and roles differently." >>> >>> This is an absolute show stopper for me. I not only have custom census >>> sentences for a variety of roles, but also custom sentences for mariners (I >>> have alot of whaling captains, ship owners, etc.). >>> >>> I worked with RootsMagic during the development of the TMG import, and the >>> handling of my sentences, roles and witnesses are now supurb! I will be >>> switching to RM once I get my backlog of data entered into TMG. >>> >>> Julie >>> >>> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Kathleen Lenihan via < >>> tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I've been playing around with both RM and Legacy trying to determine >>>> which program I want to make my permanent "home". I find things I like >>>> about both programs, and it is a tough decision. Can you elaborate on >>>> why you find Legacy superior to RM? >>>> >>>> Kathleen L. >>>> >>>>> On 9/25/2014 10:56 PM, karenhappuch via wrote: >>>>> I acquired a second home, Legacy, in August and completed the move this >>>> morning. My genealogy data and research now have two homes, TMG ad >>>> Legacy. There are, of course, lots of things to be done in the "second >>>> home", but those can be done while I'm fully using the program. >>>>> I've also imported my TMG project to RootsMagic both by Gedcom and by >>>> direct import include the most recent direct import. Plusses of the direct >>>> import are all the tag types and the witnesses and roles placed in the >>>> "share". Otherwise the RM direct import is inferior to my TMG 9.03 Gedcom >>>> import into Legacy. >>>>> The Legacy cleanup forced me to look at every person in my 6200 person >>>> main dataset. Was it time consuming? YES. Was it worth it? YES. I've >>>> identified new research to do and some individuals and families that need a >>>> closer look. >>>>> Census tags took much of my time. My TMG global census sentences won't >>>> work in Legacy because the two programs handle witnesses and roles >>>> differently. That was ok with me because they'd often required >>>> modification at the local level in TMG. I'd been wanting to change those >>>> for several years, so now it is done. The new ones work very well. >>>>> Barbara S. >>>>> >>>>> *** >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the message subject and body. >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> *** >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the message subject and body. >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> *** >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On what I think is a related topic, I was chatting with someone about collaboratively creating a mapping from TMG built-in tag types to what is imported under various scenarios in each program. For example, make a table showing the mapping between TMG tag types and where the data from each tag ended up after RM version xxx direct import. The final column would contain notes on how clean the import was and what kind of clean-up is necessary. Here is a partial made-up table (not for RM!!) to illustrate what I mean. Direct import into Xyz, version 28.2.1 TMG tag || Field in Xyz || Notes for clean-up Address || Address || lat/long did not import Birth || Born || clean Census || Cens || witnesses did not import Death || Death || clean Telephone || -- || did not import Make another table showing the mapping between TMG tag types and where the data ended up under Legacy import of a GEDCOM file. Another table under the scenario of RM import of enhanced GEDCOM, etc. Other columns might be necessary if the data from the TMG tag ended up in more than one place. Once created, new tables could be created for new versions of the software (saving the older versions for reference). Tables could be easily updated as Refugees find new issues with the import. The tables would be best to have in Excel or Google Docs Spreadsheet so that they could be easily downloaded and sorted, I would think. Refugees could then add their own custom tags to the table and more easily evaluate the quality of the import of their own data under various scenarios. Julie and Barbara S., did you work with such mappings when you did your imports? Barbara On 9/29/2014 12:08 AM, Richard J Otter via wrote: > I'd like to start work on a topic that deals with the different database > schemas used by the various programs and how the schema affects data > transfer. > > My import of a TMG project by Roots Magic looked great- especially given > all of my failed attempts trying to get Family Tree Maker 2014 to import > TMG. > However, it looks like all of the source citations attached to parent-child > relationship events are lost. > > I see a button that displays "family sources" and I guess the relationship > event citations could be lumped together there, but none are. > Same for relationship event memos. There's a "family note", but it's always > empty. > > > > > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Barbara Levergood levergood@att.net

It would be great if someone would collect sources of database design information for each of the programs. For reference purposes, I added a Database Design section on each program's page at https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/software/support-documentation and added Tom H.'s link to the RM page. Barbara On 9/29/2014 8:21 AM, Tom Holden via wrote: > Good idea, Richard. For RootsMagic, this should help: > http://sqlitetoolsforrootsmagic.wikispaces.com/RM+Database+Design > > It's not official, unlike the document for TMG. > > Tom > > > >> On Sep 29, 2014, at 12:08 AM, Richard J Otter via <tmg-refugees@rootsweb.com> wrote: >> >> I'd like to start work on a topic that deals with the different database >> schemas used by the various programs and how the schema affects data >> transfer. >> >> > *** > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the message subject and body. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-REFUGEES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Barbara Levergood levergood@att.net

Hi Tom, Thanks for this! I will flag it to add it to the website if it is not already there. btw, you, or anyone else on this list, can have access to the website (a.k.a. wiki, hosted by Google Sites) https://sites.google.com/site/tmgrefugees/ simply by requesting access from the ListAdmin. You can read there, or you can comment or edit. Or, as you have done, you can post to this list or email me to make contributions. Barbara L. On 9/28/2014 9:57 PM, Tom Momeyer via wrote: > I posted notes about RootsMagic's comparison to TMG's master source lists > here (and copied below): > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/TMG/2014-09/1411780574 > > > > I saw messages in this list where comparison notes are added to or made in a > google list or wiki group. So, if this topic is not already included, > (anyone) feel free to add the following. > > > > TMG Master Source List: A source number is shown (exposed or added), is > sortable in the master source list (along with sortable source name), can be > renumbered, and source visibility in the list turned on and off (to make for > a shorter more useable/navigable source list). There are many "aids" in the > TMG Master Source List, refer to TMG. > > > > RootsMagic Master Source List: No source number is shown (exposed or > added), therefore, there is no sort on a source number, no source visibility > (all sources are always shown), no search feature, no other "aids" similar > to those in the TMG Master Source List. > > > > Tom M. > > > -- Barbara Levergood levergood@att.net