Adding a new value for this flag (N = Pseudo person) seemed like a good idea.  When I first attempted to edit the flag, the heading was 'Edit Standard Flag Value' and all boxes were inaccessible (greyed out).  But the next time I tried, it opened up with heading 'Edit Flag Value' and I was able to add 'N = Pseudo person' in the Description box.  I thought I also added N in the Values box, but it does not now appear. Now I've realised that, being a standard flag, Sex cannot be edited -- so I believe!  All my recent attempts to edit the flag result in the greyed out version of the Edit dialog box. Questions: 1. am I right in thinking that standard flags cannot be edited? 2. if yes, how come I managed, on one occasion, to edit the Sex flag descriptions? 3. if I cannot edit the flag, how do I remove the description that I added? Lindsay Graham Canberra, Australia

Lindsay You CAN edit the Sex Flag in the UK version but DO NOT!! This is the voice of experience, editing a "standard" TMG Flag is a real way to lots of problems. Change it back and check any edited entries for funny data. I changed LIVING for some quicker data entry and then had people who were dead and buried showing as still living and aged 200+ years!!! *Bruce Fairhall* On 19/02/2019 3:24 pm, Lindsay Graham wrote: > Adding a new value for this flag (N = Pseudo person) seemed like a > good idea.  When I first attempted to edit the flag, the heading was > 'Edit Standard Flag Value' and all boxes were inaccessible (greyed > out).  But the next time I tried, it opened up with heading 'Edit Flag > Value' and I was able to add 'N = Pseudo person' in the Description > box.  I thought I also added N in the Values box, but it does not now > appear. > > Now I've realised that, being a standard flag, Sex cannot be edited -- > so I believe!  All my recent attempts to edit the flag result in the > greyed out version of the Edit dialog box. > > Questions: > > 1. am I right in thinking that standard flags cannot be edited? > 2. if yes, how come I managed, on one occasion, to edit the Sex flag > descriptions? > 3. if I cannot edit the flag, how do I remove the description that I > added? > > Lindsay Graham > Canberra, Australia > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/tmg@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal > RootsWeb community

Thanks, Bruce.  I'm on the standard USA version, not UK.  But how do I 'change it back' (my Q3 below)? Lindsay On 19/2/19 16:12, Bruce W Fairhall wrote: > Lindsay > > You CAN edit the Sex Flag in the UK version but DO NOT!! This is the > voice of experience, editing a "standard" TMG Flag is a real way to lots > of problems. Change it back and check any edited entries for funny data. > > I changed LIVING for some quicker data entry and then had people who > were dead and buried showing as still living and aged 200+ years!!! > > > *Bruce Fairhall* > > > On 19/02/2019 3:24 pm, Lindsay Graham wrote: >> Adding a new value for this flag (N = Pseudo person) seemed like a >> good idea.  When I first attempted to edit the flag, the heading was >> 'Edit Standard Flag Value' and all boxes were inaccessible (greyed >> out).  But the next time I tried, it opened up with heading 'Edit Flag >> Value' and I was able to add 'N = Pseudo person' in the Description >> box.  I thought I also added N in the Values box, but it does not now >> appear. >> >> Now I've realised that, being a standard flag, Sex cannot be edited -- >> so I believe!  All my recent attempts to edit the flag result in the >> greyed out version of the Edit dialog box. >> >> Questions: >> >> 1. am I right in thinking that standard flags cannot be edited? >> 2. if yes, how come I managed, on one occasion, to edit the Sex flag >> descriptions? >> 3. if I cannot edit the flag, how do I remove the description that I >> added? >> >> Lindsay Graham >> Canberra, Australia >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/tmg@rootsweb.com >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: >> https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal >> RootsWeb community > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/tmg@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Sorry, you'll have to wait for a US user to answer that one! *Bruce * On 19/02/2019 4:27 pm, Lindsay Graham wrote: > Thanks, Bruce.  I'm on the standard USA version, not UK.  But how do I > 'change it back' (my Q3 below)? > > Lindsay > > > On 19/2/19 16:12, Bruce W Fairhall wrote: >> Lindsay >> >> You CAN edit the Sex Flag in the UK version but DO NOT!! This is the >> voice of experience, editing a "standard" TMG Flag is a real way to lots >> of problems. Change it back and check any edited entries for funny data. >> >> I changed LIVING for some quicker data entry and then had people who >> were dead and buried showing as still living and aged 200+ years!!! >> >> >> *Bruce Fairhall* >> >> >> On 19/02/2019 3:24 pm, Lindsay Graham wrote: >>> Adding a new value for this flag (N = Pseudo person) seemed like a >>> good idea.  When I first attempted to edit the flag, the heading was >>> 'Edit Standard Flag Value' and all boxes were inaccessible (greyed >>> out).  But the next time I tried, it opened up with heading 'Edit Flag >>> Value' and I was able to add 'N = Pseudo person' in the Description >>> box.  I thought I also added N in the Values box, but it does not now >>> appear. >>> >>> Now I've realised that, being a standard flag, Sex cannot be edited -- >>> so I believe!  All my recent attempts to edit the flag result in the >>> greyed out version of the Edit dialog box. >>> >>> Questions: >>> >>> 1. am I right in thinking that standard flags cannot be edited? >>> 2. if yes, how come I managed, on one occasion, to edit the Sex flag >>> descriptions? >>> 3. if I cannot edit the flag, how do I remove the description that I >>> added? >>> >>> Lindsay Graham >>> Canberra, Australia >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >>> Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/tmg@rootsweb.com >>> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: >>> https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >>> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >>> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal >>> RootsWeb community >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/tmg@rootsweb.com >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: >> https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal >> RootsWeb community > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/tmg@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal > RootsWeb community

Lindsay, I am not sure how you correct the edited Sex flag definition in TMG. If no one answers with that information, contact me off-list. I'll manually edit the TMG database for you to fix the incorrect definition. John

Lindsay, I vaguely recall this cropping up before. Are you sure you haven't got a SEX flag (Standard) and a Sex flag (Custom)? It should, of course, be impossible to edit the SEX flag (Standard). Chris Sackett

Definitely only one Standard SEX flag, Chris. That's the mystery -- how come I managed (once only) to edit a Standard flag?  Some sort of temporary glitch in TMG, I presume. Lindsay On 20/2/19 05:12, chris@sackett.org.uk wrote: > Lindsay, > > I vaguely recall this cropping up before. Are you sure you haven't got a SEX flag (Standard) and a Sex flag (Custom)? It should, of course, be impossible to edit the SEX flag (Standard). > > Chris Sackett > >

Lindsay Graham wrote: > Adding a new value for this flag (N = Pseudo person) > seemed like a good idea. Hi Lindsay, I recommend a separate Flag for identifying Pseudo people. For an example see the description of my PSEUDO Flag in my book here: https://www.mjh-nm.net/STYLE.HTML#PseudoFlag > When I first attempted to edit the flag, the heading was > 'Edit Standard Flag Value' and all boxes were inaccessible... That restriction is appropriate when editing a Standard Flag when the language for the Flag is English (U.S.). > the next time I tried, it opened up with heading 'Edit Flag Value' > and I was able to add 'N = Pseudo person' in the Description box. > I thought I also added N in the Values box, but it does not now appear. The ability to edit the Description is appropriate when you set the Flag to some other language like English (U.K.) as you may wish to "translate" that description. You also will be able to edit the Flag Name and Values, but again only to "translate" its character values. TMG will let you edit the values field, but will ignore your changes when you save if they contain some error, like the wrong number of values or values with more than one character. However, the *position* of each (translated) value in the sequence of assignment values for any flag is defined to have the same *meaning* in all languages. Which means the second value in the list is treated by TMG as having the same meaning in every language, even if the "letter" used for that position is different in different languages. I discuss the issue of Languages and Flags in my book here: https://www.mjh-nm.net/STYLE.HTML#FlagLanguages > Questions: > > 1. am I right in thinking that standard flags cannot be edited? Yes, not in English (U.S.), but can be "translated" in other languages. > 2. if yes, how come I managed, on one occasion, to edit the Sex flag > descriptions? No idea, this should not have been possible in English (U.S.). And you cannot have both a Standard Flag and a Custom Flag named SEX in the language English (U.S.). > 3. if I cannot edit the flag, how do I remove the description that I added? When you try to Edit the SEX Flag, be sure the Language at the top of the Edit window shows English (U.S.). If it does, and the Description *is* changed for that language, I know of no way now to correct that except to accept John Cardinal's kind offer to edit the internal database files for Flags. I believe? he will only need all files named like "projectname_C.something". All the files with "_C" in the name deal with the Flags. But ask John what files he wants. Hope this help somewhat explain your situation, Michael

Thanks for your valuable comments, Michael.  I already have a separate flag for pseudo people and it is modelled on the description in your book -- thank you!  I just thought it was a good idea to add it to the SEX flag too (partly so I could use the colour accents that I've allocated to different sexes). Not such a good idea after all! The language for my SEX flag is definitely English (US). Yes, I will have to accept John Cardinal's kind offer. Lindsay On 20/2/19 05:23, Michael J. Hannah wrote: > Lindsay Graham wrote: >> Adding a new value for this flag (N = Pseudo person) >> seemed like a good idea. > Hi Lindsay, > > I recommend a separate Flag for identifying Pseudo people. For an > example see the description of my PSEUDO Flag in my book here: > > https://www.mjh-nm.net/STYLE.HTML#PseudoFlag > >> When I first attempted to edit the flag, the heading was >> 'Edit Standard Flag Value' and all boxes were inaccessible... > That restriction is appropriate when editing a Standard Flag when the > language for the Flag is English (U.S.). > >> the next time I tried, it opened up with heading 'Edit Flag Value' >> and I was able to add 'N = Pseudo person' in the Description box. >> I thought I also added N in the Values box, but it does not now appear. > The ability to edit the Description is appropriate when you set the Flag > to some other language like English (U.K.) as you may wish to > "translate" that description. You also will be able to edit the Flag > Name and Values, but again only to "translate" its character values. > TMG will let you edit the values field, but will ignore your changes > when you save if they contain some error, like the wrong number of > values or values with more than one character. However, the *position* > of each (translated) value in the sequence of assignment values for any > flag is defined to have the same *meaning* in all languages. Which > means the second value in the list is treated by TMG as having the same > meaning in every language, even if the "letter" used for that position > is different in different languages. > > I discuss the issue of Languages and Flags in my book here: > > https://www.mjh-nm.net/STYLE.HTML#FlagLanguages > >> Questions: >> >> 1. am I right in thinking that standard flags cannot be edited? > Yes, not in English (U.S.), but can be "translated" in other languages. > >> 2. if yes, how come I managed, on one occasion, to edit the Sex flag >> descriptions? > No idea, this should not have been possible in English (U.S.). > And you cannot have both a Standard Flag and a Custom Flag named SEX in > the language English (U.S.). > >> 3. if I cannot edit the flag, how do I remove the description that I added? > When you try to Edit the SEX Flag, be sure the Language at the top of > the Edit window shows English (U.S.). If it does, and the Description > *is* changed for that language, I know of no way now to correct that > except to accept John Cardinal's kind offer to edit the internal > database files for Flags. I believe? he will only need all files named > like "projectname_C.something". All the files with "_C" in the name > deal with the Flags. But ask John what files he wants. > > Hope this help somewhat explain your situation, > > Michael > >

This interesting discussion reminds me that there is a related problem regarding the Sex flag. This is for persons who whether biologically or psychologically (and who knows how much of our psychology is in fact biological...) do not identify with the sex assigned on their birth certificates. This would include those with sex-chromosome abnormalities, those born with both sexes' anatomical features, those who are trans, and those who consider themselves neither sex for other reasons. None of this can be handled with the Sex flag unless one just leaves it at ? which is better reserved for long-dead infants unspecified in the church/other records, or people with ungendered names whose sex we just don't happen to know yet. I haven't personally had to grapple with entering this sort of data in TMG, but one would want to use either a custom flag or some combination of flag and tags. Also, it's my understanding that many trans people do not want their original names or sex "outed" since discrimination against trans people (not to mention physical violence) remains frequent. So while we naturally want to know the whole story, we need to be very careful about how we deal with such information. Karla Huebner calypsospots AT gmail.com On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 10:52 PM Lindsay Graham <LDGraham@iinet.net.au> wrote: > Thanks for your valuable comments, Michael. I already have a separate > flag for pseudo people and it is modelled on the description in your book > -- thank you! I just thought it was a good idea to add it to the SEX flag > too (partly so I could use the colour accents that I've allocated to > different sexes). Not such a good idea after all! > >

Karla Huebner raised an interesting but new question about the SEX flag, so I changed the Subject line: > This interesting discussion reminds me that there is a related problem > regarding the Sex flag. This is for persons who whether biologically or > psychologically (and who knows how much of our psychology is in fact > biological...) do not identify with the sex assigned on their birth > certificates. For the cases Karla mentioned which have an undetermined gender, I would think the '?' would be the only available TMG option. However, for the case she mentions of a "change" from the birth certificate, I would suggest looking at the section in my book where I deal with Adoption and similar cases where a previous part of a person's life is distinctly different from a later part. An option is to create two separate "persons" in TMG, where each only records the events of that portion of life. See that discussion here: https://www.mjh-nm.net/NON_PRIM.HTML#AdoptionTwoTags Michael

Lindsay Graham wrote: > I already have a separate flag for pseudo people... > I just thought it was a good idea ... (partly so I could use the > colour accents that I've allocated to different sexes). If you are thinking of the on-screen colour accents in TMG for people, I use an accent definition of multiple conditions, with the choice of accenting names by the FIRST matching condition. Early conditions are based on various non-'N' values of my PSEUDO Flag. You could then have conditions based on the SEX flag values "after" the pseudo conditions and thus colour your pseudo people differently than male/female colours. Hope this gives you ideas, Michael