Just read Mr. Hannah's early post to this thread. I think he explains some of the technical details very well. For some reason I only read that after I made my post. I kind of read the thread in reverse order. Nonetheless, my personal experience should serve as warning! ------ Original Message ------ From: "Carl Jón Denbow" <cjd@denbow.org> To: "The Master Genealogist Rootsweb Email List" <tmg@rootsweb.com> Sent: 3/6/2019 10:40:01 AM Subject: Re: [TMG] Re: Storing database in the cloud >NO! NO! NO! Despite an article by Dick Eastman a decade ago saying that you could do this, it is fraught with dangers. I tried it for a while, and it resulted in corruption of my database that literally took me years to clean up. The problem is the way that TMG accesses different parts of its database in real time -- reads and writes -- requires a certain degree of stability that this setup does not provide. I don't fully understand this on the technical level, but there are those on this list who can explain it. What I can tell you is that you will have one computer writing to files in this database that won't be in sync with the other computer, even if you wait hours or days between using TMG on each computer. I ended up with things like being a witness at my own death! The corruption was just weird. It wasn't in every entry, but scattered throughout my database. As I said, I spent years cleaning it up. I haven't run into one of these weird corruption issues now in about two years, so I think I'm finally dealing with a whole TMG database. > >Now, it is perfectly safe to save your backups to the cloud, and even restore from the cloud. But, please don't try to run TMG with your active database in the cloud. A word to the wise should be sufficient. > >Carl > >------ Original Message ------ >From: "arrow 4341" <arrow5224@gmail.com> >To: "The Master Genealogist Rootsweb Email List" <tmg@rootsweb.com> >Sent: 2/20/2019 7:01:15 PM >Subject: [TMG] Re: Storing database in the cloud > >>[TMG] Re: Storing database in the cloud >>Richard & Toby; thank you for the claification. >>King Conner >> >>On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 6:55 AM Toby Turner <tturner1984@comcast.net> wrote: >> >>> Yes, Richard, that is exactly what I meant. Have been away from the >>> computer for two days or would have clarified. Thank you for doing so! >>> Toby >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >>> Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/tmg@rootsweb.com >>> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: >>> https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >>> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >>> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb >>> community >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >>Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/tmg@rootsweb.com >>Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >>Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >>RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

I was wondering if it is possible to store the TMG database on OneDrive so it can be used by either of my two different computers. Or on a NAS unit. Alexander

On 2/15/19 6:36 AM, Alexander Payne wrote: > I was wondering if it is possible to store the TMG database on OneDrive so it can be used by either of my two different computers. > Or on a NAS unit. > > Alexander Do NOT put the TMG database (or at least the copy you are using) in the OneDrive directory tree, or you will run into possible corruption issues. The issue comes if OneDrive (or whatever cloud sync utility) sees that TMG changed a file, and then opens it up to sync to the cloud, and then TMG trys to change it again. The OS will tell TMG the file is busy at the moment, but TMG isn't expecting it, and doesn't behave right. I believe a NAS unit should work, at least as long as the NAS file system supports the needed file locking primitives, which I thought were fairly common. This method will slow down access to the database. -- Richard Damon

Mine IS currently stored on OneDrive. How would I check whether it has been corrupted? And is there no way of stopping it? I definitely prefer backing up online than relying on a hard drive or disk. Jacquie -----Original Message----- From: Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> Sent: Friday, 15 February 2019 10:53 PM To: tmg@rootsweb.com Subject: [TMG] Re: Storing database in the cloud On 2/15/19 6:36 AM, Alexander Payne wrote: > I was wondering if it is possible to store the TMG database on OneDrive so it can be used by either of my two different computers. > Or on a NAS unit. > > Alexander Do NOT put the TMG database (or at least the copy you are using) in the OneDrive directory tree, or you will run into possible corruption issues. The issue comes if OneDrive (or whatever cloud sync utility) sees that TMG changed a file, and then opens it up to sync to the cloud, and then TMG trys to change it again. The OS will tell TMG the file is busy at the moment, but TMG isn't expecting it, and doesn't behave right. I believe a NAS unit should work, at least as long as the NAS file system supports the needed file locking primitives, which I thought were fairly common. This method will slow down access to the database. -- Richard Damon _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/tmg@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

On 2/16/19 4:56 AM, Jacquie Seemann Charak wrote: > Mine IS currently stored on OneDrive. How would I check whether it has been > corrupted? And is there no way of stopping it? I definitely prefer backing > up online than relying on a hard drive or disk. > > Jacquie That is part of the problem, it is very hard to detect that there is corruption until it starts to grow and starts to show obvious problems.  Some of the techies with the right tools might be able to scour through the database to look for the various inconsistencies that this can cause. What I do is run TMG with a batch file, which after I close TMG it copies my project directory into the cloud folder, since TMG is closed at that point things are safe (I also generate a backup file that also gets copied to the cloud). It may be that OneDrive has some tricks that prevents the corruption, or it waits long enough that the chance of corruption is very small, but it would be very hard to be sure. The base issue is that the dBase format (which Foxpro uses, which is what TMG uses) uses a lot of files to represent the database, and there is a special type of file locking defined for such a format, and TMG assumes that everything accessing the database will be using that, but the typical utility, like a cloud backup system, doesn't normally understand. This can cause TMG to get access errors it wasn't prepared for, and this can leave parts of records not updated, and thus create inconsistencies that become corruption. -- Richard Damon

At 2/16/2019 04:56, Jacquie Seemann Charak wrote >Mine IS currently stored on OneDrive. How would I check whether it has been >corrupted? And is there no way of stopping it? I definitely prefer backing >up online than relying on a hard drive or disk. The problem with using any Cloud service as the main storage for TMG is that TMG has some 80 files that need to be updated at variouse times. While it may seem that the 80 files are updated all at once, in reality, it is one at a time and this takes time. Cloud services are fairly safew most of the time because they are constantly being backed up by the owning service. Then, if there is a problem, the service will restore the latest backup (often without the user knowing it. If that backup happened at a time in the middle of the 80 files being updated, then corruption will occur. I would strongly suggest that you (with TMG closed) immediately copy that folder to your hard drive and use that as your main and use the hard drive as the main storage for your TMG data. After resetting TMG to use the hard drive, you should run the TMG File=>Maintenance routives to check that everything seems OK. THere still could be some minor corruption that you might find in time, but at least it will not get worse. As for backing up on-line, do the backups to the hard drive TMG folder and copy the SQZ file to OneDrive. This is very safe operation in that you have the copy on One Drive for safety _and_ the copy on the hard drive (with the convenience of not having to download it from One Drive to do a Restore). Lee

I would certainly appreciate a way of acccessing my database from multiple computers (e.g. desktop and laptop) without having to laboriously copy backup files from one to the other (and remember to copy it back again afterwards). I recognise that this is difficult with TMG not having been designed with the possibility that some other application (e.g another copy of itself) is periodically locking its files, but if anyone has developed a way of doing this I'd be keen to learn about it. I don't think I need the ability to open the database in two copies of TMG on different devices simultaneously - just at different times. Thanks - Rowan On 16/02/19 15:56, Lee Hoffman wrote: > At 2/16/2019 04:56, Jacquie Seemann Charak wrote >> Mine IS currently stored on OneDrive.  How would I check whether it >> has been >> corrupted?  And is there no way of stopping it?  I definitely prefer >> backing >> up online than relying on a hard drive or disk. > > The problem with using any Cloud service as the main storage for TMG > is that TMG has some 80 files that need to be updated at variouse > times.  While it may seem that the 80 files are updated all at once, > in reality, it is one at a time and this takes time. > > Cloud services are fairly safew most of the time because they are > constantly being backed up by the owning service.  Then, if there is a > problem, the service will restore the latest backup (often without the > user knowing it.  If that backup happened at a time in the middle of > the 80 files being updated, then corruption will occur. > > I would strongly suggest that you (with TMG closed) immediately copy > that folder to your hard drive and use that as your main and use the > hard drive as the main storage for your TMG data.  After resetting TMG > to use the hard drive, you should run the TMG File=>Maintenance > routives to check that everything seems OK. THere still could be some > minor corruption  that you might find in time, but at least it will > not get worse. > > As for backing up on-line, do the backups to the hard drive TMG folder > and copy the SQZ file to OneDrive.  This is very safe operation in > that you have the copy on One Drive for safety _and_ the copy on the > hard drive (with the convenience of not having to download it from One > Drive to do a Restore). > > Lee > > > > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/tmg@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY  Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal > RootsWeb community -- -- Rowan Sylvester-Bradley 22 Fox Green Great Bradley Newmarket Suffolk CB8 9NR United Kingdom Phone: 01440 783157 Email: rowan@sylvesterbradley.org

At 2/16/2019 11:07, Rowan Sylvester-Bradley wrote >I would certainly appreciate a way of acccessing my database from >multiple computers (e.g. desktop and laptop) without having to >laboriously copy backup files from one to the other (and remember to >copy it back again afterwards). I recognise that this is difficult >with TMG not having been designed with the possibility that some >other application (e.g another copy of itself) is periodically >locking its files, but if anyone has developed a way of doing this >I'd be keen to learn about it. I don't think I need the ability to >open the database in two copies of TMG on different devices >simultaneously - just at different times. "Laboriously" copy? It is an easy drag-n-drop step. Of a litttle work up front to create a batch file that does the same thing. For example, I have a batch file to copy from backups to a external drive this is like this: >CD C:\TMGv9\UD\Backups\ >rem The above changes the focus of the computer to the backup folder >@echo off >setlocal >if not "%1"=="" goto argsok >echo usage: %0 sqzfile >echo where: sqzfile is the file name of your SQZ file >echo Example: sqzfile = myproject5.sqz >echo backup myproject5.sqz >echo or >echo backup "myproject5.sqz" >goto end > >:argsok > setlocal > set sqzfile=%1 > set backupdir=F:\TMGBAK\ > if not exist %backupdir% goto notfile > echo %backupdir% exists > goto skipdir >:notfile > rem If the backup file does not exist, create it. > if exist %backupdir%\nul goto skipdir > md %backupdir% > if "%errorlevel%"=="0" goto skipdir > echo Error creating backup directory > goto end >:skipdir > echo Copying %sqzfile% > xcopy /f/v/y %sqzfile% %backupdir% >:end >rem Clean up >endlocal > >pause Note that you have to call the batch file by adding the backup filename as part of the command. The design is that I use the backup filename system where TMG steps through a backup number suffix (from 0 to (I use 9)) rather than using the longer date & time suffix. You could modify the batch file to use only the suffix, but I never did. Or you could moidify it to ask for the backup filenmae. That aside, go to <http://www.tmgtips.com/tmgw_v510.htm#MULTIPLE%20USERS> and take a look at the case study that Warren Culpepper did back in 2005 regarding networked computers. Lee

Lee - thanks for your reply. I have just read the Warren Culpepper document, and am surprised, as he suggests that TMG _will_ successfully work with multiple clients (i.e. PCs running TMG) and a single database, without any file locking problems. What is the truth here, brought forward to 2019 and TMG9? _Can_ two (or more) TMG users access the same database at the same time without any file corruption or locking problems? If so, does this need to be two users logged into and running the same copy of TMG on the same server, or can it be two different computers running two copies of TMG? I realise that the configuration suggested by Warren (with the users connected via RDC to a copy of TMG running (presumably in two different instances) on a remote Windows Server computer) is different from putting the database in the cloud, and accessing it from different copies of TMG running on different computers in different palces. I'm just trying to understand the exact limitations. Thanks - Rowan On 16/02/19 17:25, Lee Hoffman wrote: > At 2/16/2019 11:07, Rowan Sylvester-Bradley wrote >> I would certainly appreciate a way of acccessing my database from >> multiple computers (e.g. desktop and laptop) without having to >> laboriously copy backup files from one to the other (and remember to >> copy it back again afterwards). I recognise that this is difficult >> with TMG not having been designed with the possibility that some >> other application (e.g another copy of itself) is periodically >> locking its files, but if anyone has developed a way of doing this >> I'd be keen to learn about it. I don't think I need the ability to >> open the database in two copies of TMG on different devices >> simultaneously - just at different times. > > That aside, go to > <http://www.tmgtips.com/tmgw_v510.htm#MULTIPLE%20USERS>  and take a > look at the case study that Warren Culpepper did back in 2005 > regarding networked computers. > > Lee

At 2/16/2019 12:53, Rowan Sylvester-Bradley wrote >Can_ two (or more) TMG users access the same database at the same >time without any file corruption or locking problems? Yes. As Richard says, the project has to be in a _shared_ folder on the network. For example: the network might have: Computer A -- with hard drives C: and D: & Computer B -- with hard drives C: and D:: I have Computer A folder C:\TMGv9 shared on the network. With TMG installed on both computers in folder C:\TMGv9. Now open MyProject in Computer A from the C:\TMGv9\UD\Projects\ folder. Now my wife can open the same project from Computer B by pointing to the UD\Projects sub-folder of the shared C:\TMGv9 folder on Computer A and selecting the MyProject project. Assuming that she has person #6 in the Person View and has the Birth Tag open, If I also try to open the same Birth Tag from Computer A then a notice will appear stating that the record is in use elsewhere. If you are communicating (across the desk or by phone), you can have the other user close the Tag and then retry opening the Tag (select [Yes] in the notice) or you can answer [No] and the Birth Tag will still open, but in read-only mode (the [OK] button is dimmed out). Note that while my wife might be working with the Birth Tag of person #6, I could simultaneously work with the Death (or some other) Tag. Similarly, I could work in the Master Source List on one Source and my wife could work on a different Source. If either of use tried to open the Source Definition that the other had open, we would get get the "locked" notice. The same applies to any other record in the project. Win10 (& I believes since WinVista) has made it easy to setup what is called a HomeGroup network Note that normal TMG installation puts the TMG data files in the user's Documents folder. This may take a bit more work for sharing. But the principle is the same. WANs (Wide Area Networks are pretty much the same as LAN (Local Area Networks) although they are a bit more complex. I used a special network type program some years ago when I was traverlling which allowed me to sign in to my home computer from anywhere in the world. In that case, I was on my home computer just as if I was home and could run TMG on it even though I was thousands of miles away. A similar kind of program is used by technicians across the country to allow them to work your computer from their office while you are sitting in front of your computer watching the screen and seeing what they are doing. In both these case, the programs are not really networking, but remote access. Lee

I also have my TMG files on OneDrive, and can access from 3 different machines. BUT they are also on the hard drive of my primary machine, which is an option you have with OneDrive. NO problems ever. Kind regards, Derek Bandy -----Original Message----- From: Lee Hoffman <azchief@bellsouth.net> Sent: 16 February 2019 17:25 To: The Master Genealogist Rootsweb Email List <tmg@rootsweb.com> Subject: [TMG] Re: Storing database in the cloud At 2/16/2019 11:07, Rowan Sylvester-Bradley wrote >I would certainly appreciate a way of acccessing my database from >multiple computers (e.g. desktop and laptop) without having to >laboriously copy backup files from one to the other (and remember to >copy it back again afterwards). I recognise that this is difficult with >TMG not having been designed with the possibility that some other >application (e.g another copy of itself) is periodically locking its >files, but if anyone has developed a way of doing this I'd be keen to >learn about it. I don't think I need the ability to open the database >in two copies of TMG on different devices simultaneously - just at >different times. "Laboriously" copy? It is an easy drag-n-drop step. Of a litttle work up front to create a batch file that does the same thing. For example, I have a batch file to copy from backups to a external drive this is like this: >CD C:\TMGv9\UD\Backups\ >rem The above changes the focus of the computer to the backup folder >@echo off >setlocal >if not "%1"=="" goto argsok >echo usage: %0 sqzfile >echo where: sqzfile is the file name of your SQZ file >echo Example: sqzfile = myproject5.sqz >echo backup myproject5.sqz >echo or >echo backup "myproject5.sqz" >goto end > >:argsok > setlocal > set sqzfile=%1 > set backupdir=F:\TMGBAK\ > if not exist %backupdir% goto notfile > echo %backupdir% exists > goto skipdir >:notfile > rem If the backup file does not exist, create it. > if exist %backupdir%\nul goto skipdir > md %backupdir% > if "%errorlevel%"=="0" goto skipdir > echo Error creating backup directory > goto end >:skipdir > echo Copying %sqzfile% > xcopy /f/v/y %sqzfile% %backupdir% >:end >rem Clean up >endlocal > >pause Note that you have to call the batch file by adding the backup filename as part of the command. The design is that I use the backup filename system where TMG steps through a backup number suffix (from 0 to (I use 9)) rather than using the longer date & time suffix. You could modify the batch file to use only the suffix, but I never did. Or you could moidify it to ask for the backup filenmae. That aside, go to <http://www.tmgtips.com/tmgw_v510.htm#MULTIPLE%20USERS> and take a look at the case study that Warren Culpepper did back in 2005 regarding networked computers. Lee _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/tmg@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

At 2/16/2019 13:12, derek@bandy.org wrote >I also have my TMG files on OneDrive, and can access from 3 different >machines. BUT they are also on the hard drive of my primary machine, which >is an option you have with OneDrive. NO problems ever. If TMG accesses the project file in the Cloud, regardless of what computer is being used, there is a definite chance of data loss at some point. As has been noted, there are some eighty files to a project. These are being updated at various times throughout a working session. If there is a "hiccup" during one of these updates, the entire project would be corrupted. Lee

On 2/16/19 1:12 PM, derek@bandy.org wrote: > I also have my TMG files on OneDrive, and can access from 3 different > machines. BUT they are also on the hard drive of my primary machine, which > is an option you have with OneDrive. NO problems ever. > > Kind regards, Derek Bandy To my knowledge, ALL the common Cloud systems will put the file to be accessed on the local drive before the program gets to access them. Some system will optionally delete the file after changes have been uploaded under some defined condition. This is needed to give the user fast access to the file. If there was a system that did actually keep the file 'in the cloud' and provided a network file system to it, it just might be a safe way to do it. The issue with the cloud saving systems is that they need at some point to decide that the file has changed and upload it to the cloud. To do that they will get a 'Read Lock' on the file that prevents other programs from writing to it, and if TMG decides during that window to try to write a record to that file, it will fail, and possible corrupt the database. The issue being that TMG knows the files are databases, and uses a different access method that just gets a 'shared lock' on the file and uses special record locking methods that allow on program to be reading part of the database while a second program can be writing to a different part of the file. It is possible that OneDrive uses a different method, there are advanced access methods that open a file for reading, but don't lock it, and give that program a notification that the file changed on them so they can redo the read. If it does, then it is safe, as TMG could then do its write without being bothered by the file not being available for writing,  but the problem is no one seems to provide that sort of details of their operation, so you are taking a risk due to not knowing if it is safe. It may also be that they have a longer delay after the file is written before they upload the changes, and that greatly drops the chance of getting the conflict. The big problem is that TMG wasn't written expecting this sort of problem (this sort of background access weren't common when the underlying database drivers were written, and were under minimal to non-support for many years, The sort of corruption they cause also may not be that obvious, and may take a while to create signs of problems. -- Richard Damon

Perhaps it would help to summarize this discussion concerning the cloud. First, two computers each running TMG can access and edit the same project at the same time *ONLY* if they are accessing the exact same single set of disk files for that project using a Windows shared disk. Second, two SEPARATE types of data services have been discussed. One I will call "archival storage". The other I will call "real-time backup". Either may or may not involve the cloud as the destination of the archive. Only the second service can potentially corrupt a TMG project. An "archival storage" program (such as OneDrive) can be configured to ONLY run when no other program is likely to be running on your computer. An example would be a configuration parameter for it to only run at 2AM. Now all you have to do is be sure to always quit TMG when you finish working. When the "archival storage" program runs it would archive some files to an archive location (such as the cloud). The program could be configured either to always archive specific files and/or folders, or configured to only archive files that apparently have changed since the last archive. If no other programs are running, all files are static and can be copied to the archival location (such as the cloud) without any problem or fear of corruption. A "real-time backup" program (such as OneDrive) can run on your computer. It can be constantly monitoring files on the disk (such as TMG files), and it can immediately back up any file that appears changed to some archive location (such as the cloud). This can occur *WHILE* TMG is still running. If so your TMG project can become corrupted. You may be lucky and TMG will not be corrupted "this time", or you may not notice the corruption, but it is almost certain that sooner or later some TMG files WILL become corrupted by this automatic real-time backup action. The only recourse in such a case is to restore a good backup (and hope that earlier backup was not already corrupted). It is important to remember that "real-time backup" programs do NOT make it possible for other programs (like TMG) to use data DIRECTLY where it resides in the cloud. These other programs running on different computers are NOT running off the same disk as described. If one of these "real-time backup" programs is running, it may APPEAR that the other program (e.g. TMG) is directly using the data on the cloud. It isn't. Instead the backup program will COPY some of that other program's data from the cloud to your local disk, let that other program run on that disk data, copy any changed data back from disk to the cloud, then copy some more data from the cloud to disk as that other program needs it. This only works successfully if BOTH the backup progam AND the other program KNOW that each are running, and are both programmed to ensure they do not interfere with each other. TMG does NOT know about any such backup programs. That is the problem. TMG could happen to write to a file exactly while the backup was copying it to archive. The front part of the cloud file would be the "old" version and the back part of the file the "new" version. Corruption. There are a lot of "IFs" in the above situation. It is these "IFs" that suggest ways to avoid corruption. Qne could configure the backup program to never look at the TMG data folders. Then the TMG files would not be in jeopardy. When you finish a TMG session you could create a TMG backup to a TMG data folder which is NOT being monitored by the backup program. Then you could copy that completed backup file to a folder which IS being monitored by the backup program. Now the backup program will automatically archive that new file. Or the automatic monitoring could be turned off during the day, and only run at night, which would essentially convert the program to just being an "archival storage" program as described above. Hope this helps somewhat to explain what is going on, Michael

At 2/16/2019 12:25 PM, Lee Hoffman wrote: >Note that you have to call the batch file by adding the backup >filename as part of the command. The design is that I use the backup >filename system where TMG steps through a backup number suffix (from >0 to (I use 9)) rather than using the longer date & time suffix. > Based upon the built-in help, xcopy has the ability to create destination directories """ /I If destination does not exist and copying more than one file, assumes that destination must be a directory. """ {Using a wild card for source should trigger the "more than one file" scheme} Also, if you use the """ /M Copies only files with the archive attribute set, turns off the archive attribute. """ option, it should only copy "new" files (archive attribute set -> implies "not yet archived" I believe) after which it clears the attribute so the next run doesn't copy those files. Along with that """ /D:m-d-y Copies files changed on or after the specified date. If no date is given, copies only those files whose source time is newer than the destination time. """ would handle duplicate names with different file times (which is what your use of the rotating sequence number produces -- using datestamp suffix on the backups obviously will never duplicate names) In short, I suspect a lot of your batch file could be reduced to a single xcopy invocation. CAVEAT: I have not tried this, myself.

On 2/16/19 2:37 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > At 2/16/2019 12:25 PM, Lee Hoffman wrote: >> Note that you have to call the batch file by adding the backup >> filename as part of the command. The design is that I use the backup >> filename system where TMG steps through a backup number suffix (from >> 0 to (I use 9)) rather than using the longer date & time suffix. >> > Based upon the built-in help, xcopy has the ability to create destination directories > """ > /I If destination does not exist and copying more than one file, > assumes that destination must be a directory. > """ > {Using a wild card for source should trigger the "more than one file" scheme} > > Also, if you use the > """ > /M Copies only files with the archive attribute set, > turns off the archive attribute. > """ > option, it should only copy "new" files (archive attribute set -> implies "not yet archived" I believe) after which it clears the attribute so the next run doesn't copy those files. Along with that > """ > /D:m-d-y Copies files changed on or after the specified date. > If no date is given, copies only those files whose > source time is newer than the destination time. > """ > would handle duplicate names with different file times (which is what your use of the rotating sequence number produces -- using datestamp suffix on the backups obviously will never duplicate names) > > In short, I suspect a lot of your batch file could be reduced to a single xcopy invocation. CAVEAT: I have not tried this, myself. > Yes, my batch file is two lines, a call to TMG, and an xcopy command -- Richard Damon

In my earlier message, I included a batch file that I use to copy a TMG backup SQZ file to some other folder. I have modified that file to make it even easier. The batch file is a text only file (use NOTEPAD and name the file "bkup.bat" in the C:\ folder: >CD C:\TMGv9\UD\Backups\ >rem The above changes the focus of the computer to the backup folder >@echo off >setlocal >if not "%1"=="" goto argsok >echo usage: %0 sqzfile >echo where: sqzfile is the file name of your SQZ file >echo and your project is named "myproject" >echo Example: sqzfile = myproject5.sqz >echo bkup 5 >echo or >echo bkup "5" >goto end > >:argsok > setlocal > set sqzfile=%1 > set backupdir=D:\TMGBAK\ > if not exist %backupdir% goto notfile > echo %backupdir% exists > goto skipdir >:notfile > rem If the backup file does not exist, create it. > if exist %backupdir%\nul goto skipdir > md %backupdir% > if "%errorlevel%"=="0" goto skipdir > echo Error creating backup directory > goto end >:skipdir > echo Copying HOFFMAN__%sqzfile%.sqz > xcopy /f/v/y HOFFMAN__%sqzfile%.sqz %backupdir% >:end >rem Clean up >endlocal > >pause Using this, I type the following into the Cortana search field in the Taskbar at the bottom of the screen: c:\bkup.bat 1 The last character in the command is the rotational backup file suffix. If the backup were to be suffix number 8 then the command line would end in 8 instead of 1. The batch file has been set so that the project name as the file type to be copied are already included and don;t have to be entered in the type command. If you have multiple project, you can change the batch file by changing the two lines near the end of the file by removing "HOFFMAN__" optionally replacing that with your _single_ project name or just not putting any project name in the batch file. In that case, just include the backup file name (you don't need to include the ".sqz"). As Dennis and Richard have noted, there are other ways the batch file can be written. In most cases, a user will only need a two line batch file such as Richard noted he uses. This is baecause most of us use a single computer with backup and destination folders already setup. But for a batch file used with multiple computers or various folder arrangements, a more complex batch file may be called for. A batch file similar to the above, but much simpler might be: >set sqzfile=%1 >echo Copying HOFFMAN__%sqzfile%.sqz >xcopy /f/v/y C:\TMGv9\UD\Backups\HOFFMAN__%sqzfile%.sqz D:\TMGBAK > >pause Note again that this is set for a single project and uses the rotation SQZ file rotational suffix to denote which backup to copy. Lee

Warning. Properly done the cloud can be a good place to archive TMG backups. BUT... no ONE place for a backup is ever reliable. In the latest computer news, four days ago it was reported: "Attackers have launched a catastrophic attack against secure email provider VFEmail, wiping all primary and backup systems that contained data belonging to US users of the service. The VFEmail website now appears to be operational in the US and paid users can receive new messages, but their inboxes and *ARCHIVES* are empty." The lesson this teaches is that all data at any one cloud service can become lost. Always store backups in multiple DIFFERENT locations. Michael

> On Feb 16, 2019, at 11:07 AM, Rowan Sylvester-Bradley <rowan@sylvesterbradley.org> wrote: > > I would certainly appreciate a way of acccessing my database from multiple computers (e.g. desktop and laptop) without having to laboriously copy backup files from one to the other (and remember to copy it back again afterwards). I recognise that this is difficult with TMG not having been designed with the possibility that some other application (e.g another copy of itself) is periodically locking its files, but if anyone has developed a way of doing this I'd be keen to learn about it. I don't think I need the ability to open the database in two copies of TMG on different devices simultaneously - just at different times. > > Thanks - Rowan > If the two computers are on the same network, you can place the database in a shared directory (not ‘cloud’, but a basic network shared directory) on one computer, then you can access it from a different computer connecting to that shared directory. This is fully supported, TMG fully expects that there might be a second database program accessing the file, possibly over a network, using the database specific locking procedures. A second method would be an extension of the procedure I described, with a batch file to copy the data from a cloud folder to something local and not accessed by cloud functions, before running TMG, and then copy back afterwards. The one real important caveat to this is you MUST give the cloud system type to fully upload the data from the first machine and then update that to the second machine before you use it, or you will lose data and possibly corrupt the files. It would be best if the cloud system gives you some positive visual confirmation when both of these are done.

At 2/16/2019 4:07 PM, Rowan Sylvester-Bradley wrote: >I would certainly appreciate a way of acccessing my database from >multiple computers (e.g. desktop and laptop) without having to >laboriously copy backup files from one to the other (and remember to >copy it back again afterwards). I recognise that this is difficult with >TMG not having been designed with the possibility that some other >application (e.g another copy of itself) is periodically locking its >files, but if anyone has developed a way of doing this I'd be keen to >learn about it. I don't think I need the ability to open the database in > >two copies of TMG on different devices simultaneously - just at >different times. > If both computers are on the same local network, use of a decent network storage device (NAS) should do it. The other option is to keep the data on one of the computers, in a directory or partition which has been configured as sharable, and have the other computer mount that directory/partition (This PC/Map Network Drive). Using a NAS makes it easier to mount using the same "drive letter" and paths on both computers -- a bit more difficult to do when mounting a directory. Since VFP uses a form of record level locking (as I understand things), you can even do some operations simultaneously -- as long as you don't need to access records related to one individual (place/source/event) at the same time. -- bieber.genealogy@earthlink.net Dennis Lee Bieber HTTP://home.earthlink.net/~bieber.genealogy/