On 7/13/15 9:44 PM, Michael J. Hannah via wrote: > Yes, Tom, thanks to you forwarding your templates I now see the same > behavior. As best I can make out without exhaustive testing it seems > that TMG is treating the four vertical bars as if they were *six* > vertical bars??? So, for example, if CD3 is empty without a space, TMG > does not output CD3, but also! does not output CD4, and then puts the > text for CD4 in CD5's output, and the text for CD5 in CD6's output!!! > > This is really bizarre, and I will need to do more testing before I > include it in my "Outstanding Bugs" on-line document. There may be > other conditions that cause even more bizarre behavior when a 'place > holder' space is not used in an empty split part. > > To be fair, TMG HELP has said for some time in the "Empty Split Citation > Detail and Citation Memo Field Parts" section of the "Citation > (Existing)" topic: > > "If you use multiple split memo parts, you should always use a 'place > holder' space in any empty memo parts." > > So bizarre behavior where the spaces are missing I guess should not be > totally unexpected. > > Hope this helps, > > Michael > My understanding is that while a double bar || is considered to be a separator, ||| is considered as 2 separators and |||| as 3 separators, as ||| has two sets of || next to each other (sharing the one in the middle), and |||| has 3 pairs (the middle two both shared). I thought it was even documented that way at one point (as a short cut for lots of skipped fields). -- Richard Damon

At 7/13/2015 22:19, Richard Damon wrote: >My understanding is that while a double bar || is considered to be a >separator, ||| is considered as 2 separators and |||| as 3 separators, >as ||| has two sets of || next to each other (sharing the one in the >middle), and |||| has 3 pairs (the middle two both shared). I thought it >was even documented that way at one point (as a short cut for lots of >skipped fields). If I recall, when it was first reported on TMG-L that empty segments sometimes caused weird output, some users reported seeing results as you describe. But some users reported different results. This is why it was recommended that a place holder space be used between two segment separator pairs. It gave the most consistent results. Lee

On 7/13/2015 10:19 PM, Richard Damon via wrote: > My understanding is that while a double bar || is considered to be a > separator, ||| is considered as 2 separators and |||| as 3 separators, > as ||| has two sets of || next to each other (sharing the one in the > middle), and |||| has 3 pairs (the middle two both shared). I thought it > was even documented that way at one point (as a short cut for lots of > skipped fields). Richard, You are right that this was once the case. However, many versions ago, after vigorous debate between Bob and various beta testers (don't ask how I know that <g>), the situation was revised to improve clarity. The update that implemented the new rules included a routine to convert existing Projects to comply with the new standards. Under the current rules a pair of bars is always required to create a segment. I thought that a space is required between pairs to designate an empty segment, but on testing I find that the space is optional. Including or excluding the space has no effect on output. But I can't find documentation in Help that addresses this. Terry Reigel

At 7/14/2015 08:26, Terry Reige wrote: >Under the current rules a pair of bars is always required to create a >segment. I thought that a space is required between pairs to designate >an empty segment, but on testing I find that the space is optional. >Including or excluding the space has no effect on output. But I can't >find documentation in Help that addresses this. As the rule states, each segment requires an entry even if it is only a space to designate that the segment is empty. An empty segment without the space often works fine, but there are times when it doesn't as Tom has experienced and Michael has verified. Without the space, TMG goes back to the old inconsistent treatment of the segment separators which is why the Help was changed to add the required space rule. Lee