Sorry, it is now Eastern Daylight Time… > On Apr 2, 2017, at 4:07 PM, Janis Rodriguez <ivakota@smartneighborhood.net> wrote: > > The Roots Users Group "RUG" of Arlington, Virginia (the Washington, DC area TMG Users group) will meet on Saturday, April 8, 2017, from 9:00 am to 12:00 am (Eastern Standard Time). > > Terry Reigel will be presenting a program on “Creating Better Narratives in TMG and Second Site”. We will begin at 9:00 am, break around 10:15, and resume around 10:30-10:45. > > All are invited to attend the meeting in person or join us online via Join.Me. Our online meeting is open to everyone, not just members! For online access, download the FREE Join.Me app from the http://www.join.me/apps website, install it and join our meeting using our JOIN.ME access code: “rugmeeting” without quotes. There is a Q&A page on the Join.Me site which can help if you are having difficulties.http://help.join.me/knowledgebase. > > NOTE: Please make certain you update Join.me well before the meeting and try to familiarize yourself with the somewhat revised interface. > > MEETING LOCATION: We still meet 'in person' in Northern Virginia near Tyson's Corner, about 2 miles inside the beltway (I-495) on Route 123. Members and guests are welcome! We meet in the newer building on the lower level. > > Trinity United Methodist Church (UMC) > 1205 Dolley Madison Boulevard > McLean, VA 22101-3019 > > For directions see our website:http://www.rootsusers.org/TrinityUMCLocation.html. > > Regards, > Janis Parkison Rodriguez > VP Arlington RUG

The Roots Users Group "RUG" of Arlington, Virginia (the Washington, DC area TMG Users group) will meet on Saturday, April 8, 2017, from 9:00 am to 12:00 am (Eastern Standard Time). Terry Reigel will be presenting a program on “Creating Better Narratives in TMG and Second Site”. We will begin at 9:00 am, break around 10:15, and resume around 10:30-10:45. All are invited to attend the meeting in person or join us online via Join.Me. Our online meeting is open to everyone, not just members! For online access, download the FREE Join.Me app from thehttp://www.join.me/apps website, install it and join our meeting using our JOIN.ME access code: “rugmeeting” without quotes. There is a Q&A page on the Join.Me site which can help if you are having difficulties.http://help.join.me/knowledgebase. NOTE: Please make certain you update Join.me well before the meeting and try to familiarize yourself with the somewhat revised interface. MEETING LOCATION: We still meet 'in person' in Northern Virginia near Tyson's Corner, about 2 miles inside the beltway (I-495) on Route 123. Members and guests are welcome! We meet in the newer building on the lower level. Trinity United Methodist Church (UMC) 1205 Dolley Madison Boulevard McLean, VA 22101-3019 For directions see our website:http://www.rootsusers.org/TrinityUMCLocation.html. Regards, Janis Parkison Rodriguez VP Arlington RUG

>> Bob Hunter commented: >>> I use the place name as it existed / was recorded at the time. So do I, Bob. But I do try to have some indication that the name is no longer current. Often I add a comment to the Citation which is the source of this name indicating alternative names. >>> One of the refinements I would like TMG to have had (and which I >>> believe HRE will have) is the ability for a place to have >>> Name Variations in the same way as a person can. You "sort of" can in TMG, see below. Of course as Susan mentions below you also could include a Date range and/or a Comment in that location's Master Place Record giving its valid time span and referring to other name variations. Second Site allows output of those Comments (but not date range) as Information about a Place record in a Place Index. > Richard Damon replied: >> My understanding is that HRE will have something akin to that. TMG >> sort of does, as it doesn't really have a strong concept of a 'Place', >> but just 'names' for a place, so you can enter as many different >> 'names' as you want for a given location, you are just missing >> something to pull them all to a common record of other information >> about the place. As I understand it, HRE will have more options to connect more and different database records. I believe HRE will have the concept of a "thing" (my "technical" term <grin>) which can have many other database "things" connected to it. So a "location thing" could have multiple "name things" as well as multiple "event things" connected to it. I believe its design is to have more flexibility in the tools which allows more options for the user to define such concepts. and Susan G. Johnston responded: > TMG's Master Place List allows one to enter a start year and an end > year, as well as comments, for each place name. I use this extensively > for some areas whose history and name changes I've found very confusing. > There are other areas where I should be using this more. It's not quite > as flexible or informative as a PlaceName-Variation would be, but it's > better than nothing. Yes, I use TMG's Place Record Comments for many purposes like this because they output in Second Site. All of the above suggestions are helpful. But... Richard complained: >> you are just missing something to pull them all to a common record >> of other information about the place. Well, you "can" create something in TMG to pull these multiple names to a common record with other information. For a few locations (such as cemeteries) which are of significance to me in my project I use Location "pseudo people". Such a "person" can then have non-Primary (custom) Name Variations. Those Name tags of course can have date ranges and memos which will output in their sentences. Such a "person" can even have a Created (Birth) tag and a Dissolved (Death) tag to indicate a fixed time range during which such a location existed, and Relationship tags to link them to their predecessors, successors, or associated locations. These "people" can also have other (custom) tags describing any additional information. And such a "person" can be linked as a Witness with a (custom) role using any of their Name Variations to any other tag associated with that location. One can even use that witness' name variation instead of the Location field in that tag's sentences. All takes a bit more work to do the data entry, so I only do it for special locations, but it "can" be very useful. For descriptions of some of my ideas on using this TMG customization see the topic "Location Person" in the Style chapter of my on-line book: http://www.mjh-nm.net/STYLE.HTML#LocationPerson Hope this gives you ideas, Michael

The Seattle TMG Users Group will meet Saturday, April 8, 2:00-4:30 p.m., at Skyline on First Hill, 725 9th Avenue (between Cherry & Columbia). Valet parking ($4) is available at the circular drive entrance on 9th. The cost of parking yourself in the garage is the same, but plan on a steep hike up Columbia to 9th Avenue. Enter the lobby and register as a guest. Bob W. (our host) will meet us there. The topics this month are: repairing/deleting relationship tags; creating GEDCOM files; more on the Austin family (autosomal DNA); and updates on DNA tests of members. For driving directions, see: http://www.skylineseattle.org/contact.aspx. For bus routing, schedules, and fare information, check the KC Metro Trip Planner: http://tripplanner.kingcounty.gov.

I use the place name as it existed / was recorded at the time. One of the refinements I would like TMG to have had (and which I believe HRE will have) is the ability for a place to have Name Variations in the same way as a person can. BobH -----Original Message----- From: TMG [mailto:tmg-bounces+rmwhunter=blueyonder.co.uk@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mary Grindol Sent: 01 April 2017 05:07 To: tmg@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [TMG] Sentence structure help When one is using an English county that no longer exists such as Huntingdonshire, would you put in parentheses "now Cambridgeshire?" Both, without the "shire" would be names of towns. Also, there are cases in America when in speech, we might add the word "state" to distinguish from the city as in New York state or New York City. The proper way to write the complete address, of course doesn't add the distinction. In old books the state was sometimes referred to as "York state" and, of course, when you live in upstate New York people talk about going to "The City" and everyone know what city you are talking about. However, in written sentences, of course, we would not use "State" or "City" unless it were really a part of the city's name such as Kansas City or Oklahoma City. Mary Grindol The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The FamilySearch reference is very good in many ways, it is however a summary and does include a number of minor errors. For example, in its explanation of "the Shires" it refers to Devonshire, now, whilst it's not wrong, Devonshire is more usually reserved to Dukes and to cream teas not to the County, which is usually just "Devon", and it's Rutland not Rutlandshire and so on. Similarly the "Soke of Peterborough" was not part of Northamptonshire but was a county in its own right. As you say about Americans and Ohio State, I think you need to have grown up as a native Englishman to really understand all/some/most of the finer nuances of English place names. One such nuance, that currently amuses me as an incomer to the area, is that part of West Yorkshire is known as "Elmet" - thus a village is referred to as Barwick in Elmet - where Elmet was an early Brittonic Kingdom that last existed in the seventh century. We have long memories! To complicate matters a little the other exception to this is Ireland where of course you do add county to the start of the county name, thus "County Down" (note the upper case C) BobH -----Original Message----- From: TMG [mailto:tmg-bounces+rmwhunter=blueyonder.co.uk@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kathy & Larry McCurdy Sent: 01 April 2017 03:52 To: The Master Genealogist Rootsweb Email List <tmg@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [TMG] sentence structure help Again thank you to all who have responded - all is very helpful - we enjoyed the two references - we are guessing it is much like here in USA, we do not say or write say Ohio State unless of course we are referring to the University - it is great getting all of the insights On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Lee Hoffman/KY <azchief@bellsouth.net> wrote: > At 3/31/2017 11:29, Kathy & Larry McCurdy wrote > >> historically, has the it always been the case to use only the name of >> the county - as in Suffolk, not county Suffolk? The reason we ask is >> because some time in the distant past, early in our adventure into >> genealogy, we were led to believe that in England the proper form was >> to use county Suffolk - at that time Kathy went thru our database and >> changed all. Our primary work in England is 1600 and before. >> > > There are exceptions, of course, the word county is used with County > Durham to distinguish it from the city of the same name Otherwise > there are few cities in England having the same name as a county. > When there are, such as as the county town of Nottingham where "shire" > is added to the county name as in Nottinghamshire. > > I doubt there is anything _wrong_ with using 'county' with the county > name, but most English people frown on it. Kinda like calling the > city Lou-is-vil rather than Lou-a-vil. The first would be correct in > Colorado, but the second for Kentucky. > > On the old CompuServe Roots Forum in the 1980s & 90s, a man from > Yorkshire often posted very interesting items. He was very quick to > tell that "county" was not part of the county name. He did note the exceptions. > And I believe that he said that the usage had not changed historically. > Of course, "county" would definitely not be used when the county name > has the suffix "shire" since that essentially means county (actually, > shire means "a 'sheared-off' area"). > > By the way, counties were always included in English addresses (but not > the word 'county'). But that changed some time some ten or so years ago > when it was declared that counties no longer needed in addresses. > (Catching up with the U.S.? <g>). This is primarily a postal > declaration and really doesn't have anything to do with places in > history. Still, I have recently begun to change my Master Place List > to Exclude the county in places where a city/town is part of the > place. Of course, there are exceptions where the county is not > Excluded to avoid confusion or to help a reader understand a place > better. For example, a small crossroads village that does not show on most maps. > > > Lee > > The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ances > try.com/th/index/TMG/ Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry .com/index/other/Software/TMG.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 4/2/2017 5:37 AM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 4/2/17 6:40 AM, Bob Hunter wrote: >> I use the place name as it existed / was recorded at the time. >> One of the refinements I would like TMG to have had (and which I >> believe HRE >> will have) is the ability for a place to have Name Variations in the >> same >> way as a person can. >> >> BobH >> > My understanding is that HRE will have something akin to that. TMG > sort of does, as it doesn't really have a strong concept of a 'Place', > but just 'names' for a place, so you can enter as many different > 'names' as you want for a given location, you are just missing > something to pull them all to a common record of other information > about the place. TMG's Master Place List allows one to enter a start year and an end year, as well as comments, for each place name. I use this extensively for some areas whose history and name changes I've found very confusing. There are other areas where I should be using this more. It's not quite as flexible or informative as a PlaceName-Variation would be, but it's better than nothing. Susan Johnston

On 4/2/17 6:40 AM, Bob Hunter wrote: > I use the place name as it existed / was recorded at the time. > One of the refinements I would like TMG to have had (and which I believe HRE > will have) is the ability for a place to have Name Variations in the same > way as a person can. > > BobH > > My understanding is that HRE will have something akin to that. TMG sort of does, as it doesn't really have a strong concept of a 'Place', but just 'names' for a place, so you can enter as many different 'names' as you want for a given location, you are just missing something to pull them all to a common record of other information about the place. -- Richard Damon

When citing places for important facts, my primary interest it to help future researchers find the source document or fact. In US genealogy I am often finding information from records that were created in a county that has in later centuries been subdivided. In those cases, I try to highlight the name of the county where the record will be found *now* (to guide future researchers). With public records (e.g., land records, probate files, censuses, and other government records), they are usually filed in the original county. For a deed or will administration from pre-1790 I would write cite "Cumberland Co. (now Centre Co.)", if it was recorded prior to the date that Centre Co. was created from Cumberland Co (i.e., 1790). If I am researching events that occurred in a part of a county that was later re-named, but prior to the re-naming, and the documents are now held in a location in the new county (e.g., a church record still at the church), I might record it as "Centre Co. (originally Cumberland Co.)". In some states (e.g., NY), when new counties were created, a fairly thorough job was done of transferring information about pre-existing records to the new county's archives, but the original counties usually kept the original record. In other states (e.g., PA), you have to carefully compare the date of an event to the dates of county formation to identify the county where the record was originally recorded to locate it today. So depending on where one would expect to find the record filed today, I vary between using place names such as: - Cumberland Co. (now Centre Co.) or - Centre Co. (originally Cumberland Co.) Greg On Apr 1, 2017 11:47 AM, "Lee Hoffman/KY" <azchief@bellsouth.net> wrote: > At 4/1/2017 00:06, Mary Grindol wrote > >> When one is using an English county that no longer exists such as >> Huntingdonshire, would you put in parentheses "now Cambridgeshire?" Both, >> without the "shire" would be names of towns. >> > > I would say it would not vary from what we do here in the U.S. Fincastle > County was erected by Virginia in 1772 and existed until it was divided > into three counties -- Kentucky, Montgomery, and Washington. For the few > uses that I have of Fincastle County, I give it something like: > Kentucky County (formerly part of Fincastle County), Virginia > The hard part is that even that does not explain well the location in mind > since Kentucky County itself only existed until 1780 when it was divided > into Fayette, Jefferson, and Lincoln Counties. And, over time, these three > counties were further dived into the 120 counties of today. > > I have many references to today's Bath County, Kentucky, before 1811 when > it was formed. In many cases (particularly around the time of the split), > I give it as: > Montgomery County (now Bath County), Kentucky > There are a few cases soon after the split that I give the place as: > Bath County (formerly Montgomery County), Kentucky > > The pattern that I use often has to do with where I found my Source. But, > also there is the case of land transfers to indicate where the original > transfer may have been recorded. For example, I have some deeds recorded > in Montgomery County for land that is currently in Bath County. There is > one deed for land in Bath County that I have tried to find without much > success. I do not know exactly when the land was purchased, only that it > was in the early to mid 1790s. This means that I need to search in > possibly three different Kentucky counties - Montgomery County (formed > 1797), Clark County (formed 1792) and Bourbon County. This is further > exacerbated by the fact that the first Deed Book in Montgomery County is > missing! So, if I find the deed in Bourbon County, I would likely record > it as: > Bourbon County (now Bath County), Kentucky > This tells where the land was at the time (and where the deed was > recorded) and more specifically, where the land is located today. The > same would apply if I were recording a Residence Tag. > > Lee > > The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ances > try.com/th/index/TMG/ > Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry > .com/index/other/Software/TMG.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

At 4/1/2017 00:06, Mary Grindol wrote >When one is using an English county that no longer exists such as >Huntingdonshire, would you put in parentheses "now Cambridgeshire?" Both, >without the "shire" would be names of towns. I would say it would not vary from what we do here in the U.S. Fincastle County was erected by Virginia in 1772 and existed until it was divided into three counties -- Kentucky, Montgomery, and Washington. For the few uses that I have of Fincastle County, I give it something like: Kentucky County (formerly part of Fincastle County), Virginia The hard part is that even that does not explain well the location in mind since Kentucky County itself only existed until 1780 when it was divided into Fayette, Jefferson, and Lincoln Counties. And, over time, these three counties were further dived into the 120 counties of today. I have many references to today's Bath County, Kentucky, before 1811 when it was formed. In many cases (particularly around the time of the split), I give it as: Montgomery County (now Bath County), Kentucky There are a few cases soon after the split that I give the place as: Bath County (formerly Montgomery County), Kentucky The pattern that I use often has to do with where I found my Source. But, also there is the case of land transfers to indicate where the original transfer may have been recorded. For example, I have some deeds recorded in Montgomery County for land that is currently in Bath County. There is one deed for land in Bath County that I have tried to find without much success. I do not know exactly when the land was purchased, only that it was in the early to mid 1790s. This means that I need to search in possibly three different Kentucky counties - Montgomery County (formed 1797), Clark County (formed 1792) and Bourbon County. This is further exacerbated by the fact that the first Deed Book in Montgomery County is missing! So, if I find the deed in Bourbon County, I would likely record it as: Bourbon County (now Bath County), Kentucky This tells where the land was at the time (and where the deed was recorded) and more specifically, where the land is located today. The same would apply if I were recording a Residence Tag. Lee

When one is using an English county that no longer exists such as Huntingdonshire, would you put in parentheses "now Cambridgeshire?" Both, without the "shire" would be names of towns. Also, there are cases in America when in speech, we might add the word "state" to distinguish from the city as in New York state or New York City. The proper way to write the complete address, of course doesn't add the distinction. In old books the state was sometimes referred to as "York state" and, of course, when you live in upstate New York people talk about going to "The City" and everyone know what city you are talking about. However, in written sentences, of course, we would not use "State" or "City" unless it were really a part of the city's name such as Kansas City or Oklahoma City. Mary Grindol

Again thank you to all who have responded - all is very helpful - we enjoyed the two references - we are guessing it is much like here in USA, we do not say or write say Ohio State unless of course we are referring to the University - it is great getting all of the insights On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Lee Hoffman/KY <azchief@bellsouth.net> wrote: > At 3/31/2017 11:29, Kathy & Larry McCurdy wrote > >> historically, has the it always been the case to use only the name >> of the county - as in Suffolk, not county Suffolk? The reason we ask is >> because some time in the distant past, early in our adventure into >> genealogy, we were led to believe that in England the proper form was to >> use county Suffolk - at that time Kathy went thru our database and changed >> all. Our primary work in England is 1600 and before. >> > > There are exceptions, of course, the word county is used with County > Durham to distinguish it from the city of the same name Otherwise there > are few cities in England having the same name as a county. When there > are, such as as the county town of Nottingham where "shire" is added to the > county name as in Nottinghamshire. > > I doubt there is anything _wrong_ with using 'county' with the county > name, but most English people frown on it. Kinda like calling the city > Lou-is-vil rather than Lou-a-vil. The first would be correct in Colorado, > but the second for Kentucky. > > On the old CompuServe Roots Forum in the 1980s & 90s, a man from Yorkshire > often posted very interesting items. He was very quick to tell that > "county" was not part of the county name. He did note the exceptions. > And I believe that he said that the usage had not changed historically. > Of course, "county" would definitely not be used when the county name has > the suffix "shire" since that essentially means county (actually, shire > means "a 'sheared-off' area"). > > By the way, counties were always included in English addresses (but not > the word 'county'). But that changed some time some ten or so years ago > when it was declared that counties no longer needed in addresses. (Catching > up with the U.S.? <g>). This is primarily a postal declaration and really > doesn't have anything to do with places in history. Still, I have > recently begun to change my Master Place List to Exclude the county in > places where a city/town is part of the place. Of course, there are > exceptions where the county is not Excluded to avoid confusion or to help a > reader understand a place better. For example, a small crossroads village > that does not show on most maps. > > > Lee > > The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ances > try.com/th/index/TMG/ > Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry > .com/index/other/Software/TMG.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

At 3/31/2017 11:29, Kathy & Larry McCurdy wrote >historically, has the it always been the case to use only the name >of the county - as in Suffolk, not county Suffolk? The reason we ask is >because some time in the distant past, early in our adventure into >genealogy, we were led to believe that in England the proper form was to >use county Suffolk - at that time Kathy went thru our database and changed >all. Our primary work in England is 1600 and before. There are exceptions, of course, the word county is used with County Durham to distinguish it from the city of the same name Otherwise there are few cities in England having the same name as a county. When there are, such as as the county town of Nottingham where "shire" is added to the county name as in Nottinghamshire. I doubt there is anything _wrong_ with using 'county' with the county name, but most English people frown on it. Kinda like calling the city Lou-is-vil rather than Lou-a-vil. The first would be correct in Colorado, but the second for Kentucky. On the old CompuServe Roots Forum in the 1980s & 90s, a man from Yorkshire often posted very interesting items. He was very quick to tell that "county" was not part of the county name. He did note the exceptions. And I believe that he said that the usage had not changed historically. Of course, "county" would definitely not be used when the county name has the suffix "shire" since that essentially means county (actually, shire means "a 'sheared-off' area"). By the way, counties were always included in English addresses (but not the word 'county'). But that changed some time some ten or so years ago when it was declared that counties no longer needed in addresses. (Catching up with the U.S.? <g>). This is primarily a postal declaration and really doesn't have anything to do with places in history. Still, I have recently begun to change my Master Place List to Exclude the county in places where a city/town is part of the place. Of course, there are exceptions where the county is not Excluded to avoid confusion or to help a reader understand a place better. For example, a small crossroads village that does not show on most maps. Lee

The way I achieve similar scenarios is I create specific "Place Styles" for each country/circumstance. In your case, for example, I would create a place style called, say, "England" with an output template - <[L3], >< [L4], >< [L5], ><[L6] ><at [L2]>. (Your English places would then need to be given that place style). My sentence would then be - [PG] was born <[DD]><[L]>. <[M]>. I have several different place styles for the various different "things", one for Registration Districts (which cross county boundaries), one for Assize Court Circuits, one for Church Dioceses, one for English places which omits the country, and one for the rest of the world which includes it As an aside, in the UK we never prefix our county names with the word "county", so we never say (or write) "County Suffolk". In extremis we might write "The County of Suffolk". The only exception to this rule is County Durham which is usually written "Co Durham" and even that, these days is often written as just "Durham" BobH -----Original Message----- From: TMG [mailto:tmg-bounces+rmwhunter=blueyonder.co.uk@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kathy & Larry McCurdy Sent: 31 March 2017 09:23 To: The Master Genealogist Rootsweb Email List <tmg@rootsweb.com> Subject: [TMG] sentence structure help We are trying to create a birth sentence that will give the following output depending on the information supplied in the different fields. example 1: William was born in Laxfield, county Suffolk, England. example 2: William was born in Laxfield, county Suffolk, England at the Manor of Stadbauch. example 3: William was born in England. in all of these examples L2 = the Manor of Stadbaugh - L3= Laxfield - L4 =county Suffolk & L6 = England. we have tried variations of [PG] was born <[DD]><[L3], >< [L4], >< [L5]><[L6]>< at [L2]>. <[M]>. , but we can not get the "ins" in front of the individual fields or the comma to appear correctly. Is it possible to do this, or are we asking to much? Any help would be greatly appreciated Kathy & Larry McCurdy The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Bob, John & Lee - Thank you so much - it is wonderful to have this list as a resource - and of course we have exactly what we want thanks to you. Bob & Lee - historically, has the it always been the case to use only the name of the county - as in Suffolk, not county Suffolk? The reason we ask is because some time in the distant past, early in our adventure into genealogy, we were led to believe that in England the proper form was to use county Suffolk - at that time Kathy went thru our database and changed all. Our primary work in England is 1600 and before. On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 10:28 AM, Lee Hoffman/KY <azchief@bellsouth.net> wrote: > At 3/31/2017 04:22, Kathy & Larry McCurdy wrote > >> We are trying to create a birth sentence that will give the following >> output depending on the information supplied in the different fields. >> example 1: William was born in Laxfield, county Suffolk, England. >> example 2: William was born in Laxfield, county Suffolk, England at the >> Manor of Stadbauch. >> example 3: William was born in England. >> in all of these examples L2 = the Manor of Stadbaugh - L3= Laxfield - L4 >> =county Suffolk & >> L6 = England. >> we have tried variations of [PG] was born <[DD]><[L3], >< [L4], >< >> [L5]><[L6]>< at [L2]>. <[M]>. , but we can not get the "ins" in front of >> the individual fields or the comma to appear correctly. Is it possible to >> do this, or are we asking to much? >> > > Both John and Bob gave you good answers. The alternative suggest by John > (to add the 'in' such as <in [L]> ) brings up the caveat that in order to > have TMG furnish the selected preposition, you need to make sure that there > is not a space following the beginning angle bracket "<" as that forces TMG > to not include the preposition. You appear to have followed this in your > example with the [L4] Variable which has the space included. But is is not > there in the [L5] Variable. Thus the Sentence Structure you give above > should give the result: > William was born in Laxfield, county Suffolk, in England at the > Manor of Stadbauch. > If you put the space after th w"<" and in front of "[L5]" then the result > should be: > William was born in Laxfield, county Suffolk, England at the Manor > of Stadbauch. > > > As for Bob's suggestion, it is also very good. I have long thought that > Place Styles are a vastly under used TMG feature. If you have a number of > similar such as this where you want one or more place fields to print in a > different order than the usual then a Custom Place Style is a good idea. > Once the Custom Place Style is created, all you need to do is select that > Place Style and the sentence (using just the <[L]> Variable) should print > like you want. > > > One other point unrelated to sentences is that in England (unlike Ireland) > the word "county is not used as a prefix. Thus it should be just > "Laxfield, Suffolk, England". It is a hard rule for me to follow as I want > top make sure a reader understands that a location is a county rather than > a city/town. My reasoning is that so many U.S. cities/towns have the same > name as a county in the same state. Some of these cities/towns are in the > county of that name and some are in different parts of the state. For > example, Grayson, KY is in Carter County while Grayson County, KY is some > 150 miles west of the city. In England, this is not the case as > cities/towns do not have the same names as counties. > > Lee > > > > The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ances > try.com/th/index/TMG/ > Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry > .com/index/other/Software/TMG.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

At 3/31/2017 04:22, Kathy & Larry McCurdy wrote >We are trying to create a birth sentence that will give the following >output depending on the information supplied in the different fields. >example 1: William was born in Laxfield, county Suffolk, England. >example 2: William was born in Laxfield, county Suffolk, England at the >Manor of Stadbauch. >example 3: William was born in England. >in all of these examples L2 = the Manor of Stadbaugh - L3= Laxfield - L4 >=county Suffolk & >L6 = England. >we have tried variations of [PG] was born <[DD]><[L3], >< [L4], >< >[L5]><[L6]>< at [L2]>. <[M]>. , but we can not get the "ins" in front of >the individual fields or the comma to appear correctly. Is it possible to >do this, or are we asking to much? Both John and Bob gave you good answers. The alternative suggest by John (to add the 'in' such as <in [L]> ) brings up the caveat that in order to have TMG furnish the selected preposition, you need to make sure that there is not a space following the beginning angle bracket "<" as that forces TMG to not include the preposition. You appear to have followed this in your example with the [L4] Variable which has the space included. But is is not there in the [L5] Variable. Thus the Sentence Structure you give above should give the result: William was born in Laxfield, county Suffolk, in England at the Manor of Stadbauch. If you put the space after th w"<" and in front of "[L5]" then the result should be: William was born in Laxfield, county Suffolk, England at the Manor of Stadbauch. As for Bob's suggestion, it is also very good. I have long thought that Place Styles are a vastly under used TMG feature. If you have a number of similar such as this where you want one or more place fields to print in a different order than the usual then a Custom Place Style is a good idea. Once the Custom Place Style is created, all you need to do is select that Place Style and the sentence (using just the <[L]> Variable) should print like you want. One other point unrelated to sentences is that in England (unlike Ireland) the word "county is not used as a prefix. Thus it should be just "Laxfield, Suffolk, England". It is a hard rule for me to follow as I want top make sure a reader understands that a location is a county rather than a city/town. My reasoning is that so many U.S. cities/towns have the same name as a county in the same state. Some of these cities/towns are in the county of that name and some are in different parts of the state. For example, Grayson, KY is in Carter County while Grayson County, KY is some 150 miles west of the city. In England, this is not the case as cities/towns do not have the same names as counties. Lee

Both John's comment about prepositions associated with specific Location variables, and Lee's comment about the underuse of Styles is right on target. For further details about prepositions associated with specific Location variables see the topic about Location variables in the "Tag Sentences" chapter of my on-line book: http://www.mjh-nm.net/TAGSENTS.HTML#LocationVariables Kathy & Larry McCurdy further asked: > ... historically, has it always been the case to use only > the name of the county - as in Suffolk, not county Suffolk? I don't know about "always" but that naming convention is one which I have always understood. As an overseas life member of the Norfolk Family History Society that is certainly what I was taught by my fellow researchers over in England. See also the following two sources which agree with this convention: LDS Family Search: https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/England_Understanding_Place_Names_%28National_Institute%29 "Evidence Explained", by Elizabeth Shown Mills, section 5.12, p. 227 CITING ENGLISH COUNTIES "The American custom of placing the word "county" /after/ the name of a county is not followed in England... When it is necessary to specifically identify a place name as a county -- something a researcher may need to do for readers outsite the U.K -- the custom is to write the place name as /County of Norfolk/ or, in short form, /Co. Norfolk/." Hope this gives you ideas, Michael

Larry, Try this: [PG] was born <[DD]><[L]>< at [L2]>. <[M]>. TMG has a feature where [L] will not include the values of place levels that are also referenced in the sentence. So, in the sentence above, [L] will not include [L2]. If "in" is your default place preposition, you'll get what you want. If it isn't, then you might opt for <in [L]>. John

We are trying to create a birth sentence that will give the following output depending on the information supplied in the different fields. example 1: William was born in Laxfield, county Suffolk, England. example 2: William was born in Laxfield, county Suffolk, England at the Manor of Stadbauch. example 3: William was born in England. in all of these examples L2 = the Manor of Stadbaugh - L3= Laxfield - L4 =county Suffolk & L6 = England. we have tried variations of [PG] was born <[DD]><[L3], >< [L4], >< [L5]><[L6]>< at [L2]>. <[M]>. , but we can not get the "ins" in front of the individual fields or the comma to appear correctly. Is it possible to do this, or are we asking to much? Any help would be greatly appreciated Kathy & Larry McCurdy

I looked into that about making a new empty dataset. I used the datasetmanager in my main project with the desired customizations as styles etc. I then used the add function to make a new empty dataset chosing to have tagtypes ,placenames and styles. I gave a name to the dataset in my main project. Then I close my project in TMG ,and then I went into another of my projects and copied the entire project with its new empty dataset into a new project ,and called that "1". In the new project I deleted the other datasets except the new empty one ,but didn`t renumber he dataset to 1...... Then got back to my original project and deleted the added empty dataset. Now I actually had an empty dataset ,but couldn`t import anything into it because the import wizard stopped at step 2 after finding the sqz file I wanted to try getting into the empty dataset.....(have had that problem before)..... -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: Michael J Hannah [mailto:mjh@rr-nm.net] Sendt: 29. mars 2017 23:14 Til: The Master Genealogist Rootsweb Email List <tmg@rootsweb.com> Kopi: gj_erov7@bbnett.no Emne: Re: [TMG] place and name styles into 9.05 Erik Hov wrote: > I have now finally gotten my projects into version 9.05... > I have changed the place and namestyles... How did you do this? You mentioned earlier that you had version 8 projects. Did you do a backup in V8 and restore in V9? Or did you simply Open the V8 projects in V9? Were the V8 projects already using your special place and name styles? If they were already being used in the V8 projects I don't understand why they were not migrated. However, as I mentioned earlier, I am not familiar with using alternate languages in TMG, so maybe some other user with experience in languages might have and idea and can help. However I do use alternate styles and have encountered issues with them. Styles are unique to a given dataset within a given project. > I have created another place/name style than US standard on some of > the other projects, but the rest are still using the US standard style... If you have not yet used these new styles in some projects, I do know that the *order* in which you create custom styles in the list of styles affects importing data which uses alternate custom styles. So if you import tags which use custom name or place styles, it appears that the style is stored upon export of that tag type as the n-th style in the list of Styles. The import does not match styles based on the style name, only on the position in the list. If the /sequence/ of styles in the exporting dataset and the importing dataset are not identical, the tag type will be linked to a different style in the imported dataset than it was in the exported dataset. If you have created a new Project with new customizations, and want to apply those customizations to other existing Projects, that can be a chore. Since you have quite a number, you may wish to consider my suggestions in my on-line book. See the topic concerning merging "Project Files with Customizations" in the Import/Export chapter: http://www.mjh-nm.net/IMEXPORT.HTML#MergingFiles This topic mentions methods of creating a new Project with the desired customizations, then importing/merging an existing dataset/project into this new Project which already has all the desired customizations, like styles. I would suggest the first of the two methods I mention under the subtopic "Retain Sources and Repositories." You would "Add" a new empty dataset (not a new Project) using the Dataset Manager to the existing project which has the desired customizations, such as styles. The "Add" action provides options to select which of various features will be copied from the currently selected existing dataset. I generally choose to retain all of these for my purposes, but you may not wish to. . Master Source List, categories, templates, and elements (all or nothing) . Master Repository List (all or nothing) . Tag Type List, global sentence structures, and roles (all or nothing) . Master Place List (all or nothing) . Flags (all or nothing) . Name and place styles (all or none) In your case you may only wish to copy the Tag Type list, the Master Place List, and the Styles. Then as continued in my book: . Close the project within TMG and then use TMG to copy the entire project with its new empty dataset into a new project . Delete all datasets in the new project except the new empty one, and renumber the empty dataset to '1' . Go back to your original project and delete the added empty dataset Now you have a new project with an empty dataset but with the copied customizations. Use TMG to make as many copies of this empty project as desired. Now you can Import and merge the data from each old project into its new customized project. Hope this gives you ideas, Michael