> On Jun 19, 2017, at 11:52 AM, Lee Hoffman/KY <azchief@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > There are Find A Grave memorials that cannot be accessed by the name of the deceased. You can find the memorial if you know the memorial number or the contributor's name. As far as I can tell, this only applies to memorial where there is not a known grave and cemetery. The memorial number is best, but you can find it under the contributor though that might take a bit of scanning if the contributor made many contributions. Tell me more about this. I have been able to find memorials for unknown burials (i.e. cremations) by the name of the deceased. The times I have trouble finding a memorial is if I am searching on information that is not present in the memorial or if I’m spelling the name differently, or they’ve put the first and middle name in the first name box, maiden name in the middle name box, etc. IE birth date. I may know the birthdate but the memorial creator has input it as unknown. Or maybe I’m trying search criteria that’s too specific. And I know you can click on the contributor’s link on a memorial and go to their profile, see all the memorials they’ve created, their public message list, etc. But as far as I know, you cannot search for a contributor without the link on the memorial. If someone knows how to do that, please let me know. It would be helpful at times. Robin in Short Pump

At 6/19/2017 10:44, Robin Kaspar wrote >Speaking of source citations, I’ve been >wondering. How many sources do you cite for any >particular fact? Do you give yourself a limit? >(We should be so fortunate to have multiple >sources for all our events). For example, I can >often find 2 or more sources on Ancestry to >support a death event (SSDI, state death index, >obituary, FaG, etc). I cite them all. I have >never used sureties, so maybe that’s how some >of you “rate” your citations for inclusion >on footnotes/endnotes. I use endnotes because >let’s face it, 4 death citations would >overwhelm a footnote. 4 death citations seem >like overkill to me, but I don’t want to >exclude something that might be important or >have contradicting information that should be pointed out. I don't have a limit, but after a couple or so, I tend to ask if adding a new citation is worthwhile. If the new citation would be a derivative of one I have already cited then my answer is usually no. If I have the following for a birth date: -- a birth certificate -- a family Bible and wonder about adding a citation to a gravestone then I probably will not add the gravestone citation. On the other hand, if the gravestone has a different date than the birth certificate and the Bible then I will add the gravestone citation noting that it is different. As for Sureties, they are for your benefit only because only you know what each Surety Value means. Yes, there is a standard for the meanings of Surety Values. But the assignment of the Values is very subjective and personal. So what I would assign is not necessarily what anyone else would assign. My main use of Sureties is to help me in recalling why the Source is citing. That is, does the Source speak of the date, the place, the memo, all three, or just one or two. Further, how certain am I that the information actually applies to this person(s). My further use is to help me go back and look for those places where I think more research is needed. For example, I may a birth date on Ancestry and the Ancestry page give a sitation. I may add that data and cite Ancestry.com (and the page reference URL), but the citation surety value will be a 1. Later, I can create a report looking for citations with Surety values of 1 meaning I need to verify this information. In a similar way, I can create the report looking for a zero Surety value. This is for those where I add information (such as a circa date) that is just a guess (however educate it might be <g>). Unless I am citing an original document or the above instances, I usually wind up using a Surety value of 2. To me, this means the source is relatively reliable and I probably don't need to do more verification of the data. That doesn't mean that I won't check what I have with newly found sources. In fact, the new sources often have conflicting information. I could ignore it and continue. But, what if someone else saw that source and just because I did not cite it, decided I probably have wrong data. My citing the conflicting source says that I am aware of the conflict and the "new" data is wrong. Lee

At 6/19/2017 10:24, Robin Kaspar wrote >There are a lot of things about source templates that I just don’t get. Truthfully, what you learned in high school about citations covers most everything you need to know for the use of citations in TMG (or any other program). The citation supports the information cited and gives credit where it is due. >I am a lumper and I so appreciate Terry >Reigel’s simple source template and I use that for just about everything. There are lots of pros and cons about lumping and splitting. Some say that you should not lump at all and other dislike to large numbers of Sources when splitting is the method used. There are good arguments on both sides. I like split citations, but if I can get the same result using lumped Sources, that is also okay. My main concern is that my citations appear consistent. So I do some splitting and some lumping. >I figure that anyone who might ever be looking >at my family tree/documentation is not going to >care whether the citations are Mills-perfect, >hopefully they’ll be grateful that I’ve put >in enough information to find it again should a >question arise. I don’t think my family is >that scholarly, myself included. :-) For many of us, this is true. Family rarely care whether something is cited. The exception is the one young person (maybe two if you're real lucky) that is interested enough to want to take your data and run with it. They will appreciate your effort adding citations. >I see that some of you are including the FaG >memorial creator and/or maintainer in your >templates. Why? Is that information important? >The creator/maintainer may or may not be related >to the person in the memorial. Probably not >related more often than not. What am I missing about that? Good question. Let's assume that you are citing a county history that describes your ancestor's life in that county 200 years ago. Does the fact that the author of that book is unrelated make any difference? I think not. The same applies to Find A Grave. Elizabeth Shown Mills and the Tri-Valley TMG User Group both suggest that the author of the web site is Find A Grave. In such a case, you are saying that Jim Tipton (the founder of Find A Grave) is the author. However, he only furnished the format (and originally) the web site. The person creating the page using the tools provided by Mr. Tipton is the author/creator. As for the person maintaining the page, this is the same as someone updating and editing a new edition of that county history. However, if I create a citation to the Find A Grave page for John Doe, and later find that the page has been changed in some way I doubt that I would go back and change my citations if my cited information has not changed, In other words, I am still citing the earlier edition of the page. >Isn’t the point of citing sources to document >the facts and so that someone (you or someone else) can find it again? That is one of the main reasons. But, giving the creator's name is the same as giving the author's name for a book. Without the author's name, I could create one Source for "History of Kentucky" and eliminate about four now duplicate Sources. It is just giving credit where credit is due. >Would you have a need to search FaG for >memorials created by contributor? I don’t know if you can even do that. Yes, you can go to a contributor's page and find the memorials they have created and/or are maintaining. I don't know that I would really need to do this. But, it is possible. There are Find A Grave memorials that cannot be accessed by the name of the deceased. You can find the memorial if you know the memorial number or the contributor's name. As far as I can tell, this only applies to memorial where there is not a known grave and cemetery. The memorial number is best, but you can find it under the contributor though that might take a bit of scanning if the contributor made many contributions. >I was telling Toby off-list that I had a >situation where I went back to a memorial to >check something and the memorial number no >longer existed. Unbeknownst to me, the one I had >downloaded/cited was a duplicate. Someone merged >the two together and the one I cited >disappeared. Fortunately I was able to find the >other one and updated my citations. Interesting. I wondered about that situation. My way of handling that would be to combine the information from the two pages and then replace the old page with a re-direction page with a clickable link to the "combined" page. Everything would point to the "combined" page and nothing would point to the old memorial # except when it is requested. This way, former citations to the old number would not be "lost" when requested. But, I don't have a say about that. <g> Lee

If they are all the same I cite the one that is 1) most reliable, and 2) free online. On a slightly different subject; I often do not use footnotes or endnotes but include the citation in a note or biography tag because so many people have cut and pasted from my web page and don't get the footnotes or endnotes; this way they get it all. For example instead of citing the census; I put a full description of the census entry in the tag. On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 10:44 AM, Robin Kaspar <kaspar.robin@gmail.com> wrote: > Speaking of source citations, I’ve been wondering. > > How many sources do you cite for any particular fact? Do you give yourself > a limit? (We should be so fortunate to have multiple sources for all our > events). > For example, I can often find 2 or more sources on Ancestry to support a > death event (SSDI, state death index, obituary, FaG, etc). I cite them all. > I have never used sureties, so maybe that’s how some of you “rate” your > citations for inclusion on footnotes/endnotes. I use endnotes because let’s > face it, 4 death citations would overwhelm a footnote. 4 death citations > seem like overkill to me, but I don’t want to exclude something that might > be important or have contradicting information that should be pointed out. > > Robin in Short Pump > The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb. > ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ > Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb. > ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Speaking of source citations, I’ve been wondering. How many sources do you cite for any particular fact? Do you give yourself a limit? (We should be so fortunate to have multiple sources for all our events). For example, I can often find 2 or more sources on Ancestry to support a death event (SSDI, state death index, obituary, FaG, etc). I cite them all. I have never used sureties, so maybe that’s how some of you “rate” your citations for inclusion on footnotes/endnotes. I use endnotes because let’s face it, 4 death citations would overwhelm a footnote. 4 death citations seem like overkill to me, but I don’t want to exclude something that might be important or have contradicting information that should be pointed out. Robin in Short Pump

There are a lot of things about source templates that I just don’t get. I am a lumper and I so appreciate Terry Reigel’s simple source template and I use that for just about everything. I figure that anyone who might ever be looking at my family tree/documentation is not going to care whether the citations are Mills-perfect, hopefully they’ll be grateful that I’ve put in enough information to find it again should a question arise. I don’t think my family is that scholarly, myself included. :-) I see that some of you are including the FaG memorial creator and/or maintainer in your templates. Why? Is that information important? The creator/maintainer may or may not be related to the person in the memorial. Probably not related more often than not. What am I missing about that? Isn’t the point of citing sources to document the facts and so that someone (you or someone else) can find it again? Would you have a need to search FaG for memorials created by contributor? I don’t know if you can even do that. I was telling Toby off-list that I had a situation where I went back to a memorial to check something and the memorial number no longer existed. Unbeknownst to me, the one I had downloaded/cited was a duplicate. Someone merged the two together and the one I cited disappeared. Fortunately I was able to find the other one and updated my citations. Robin in Short Pump

On 6/19/2017 2:34 AM, Brian Gross wrote: > Find-a-Grave has ended up my "go-to" source for burial locations. I lumped > my citations to keep the number of sources down. As a result I have 1667 > citations to a single Find-a-Grave source, all of which are like this: > > Find A Grave, database and images (http://www.findagrave.com : accessed 18 > Jun 2017), memorial 53213951, Cyrus Markle Hepler. Brian, I too lump my FaG citations. I regard them as essentially a database, like the many indexes on Ancestry, FamilySearch, and the like, and treat them the same. My full footnote template is: [ITAL:][TITLE][:ITAL], online [URL]<, viewed [PRINTOUT DATE]><, [COMMENTS]><, [CD]> I put all the details of the specific memorial in the CD, just as I do for records in other databases. The result is something like: findagrave.com, online <http://www.findagrave.com>, memorial # 40788675, Harold Benjamin Heiple. I have assigned Source number 500 to FaG so I can easily remember it. > The date of access, memorial number and name are passed via split CD. I avoid split CDs because they cause too many issues in my view. > The problem with my citations is that they don't make it clear whether I > used the database entry or the tombstone (or other) picture to support > whatever I'm asserting. I address that by putting notes in the CD when there is a tombstone. No mention of a tombstone means just a database entry, thus dubious. I try to avoid entering those except when I can find no other source for the information. Typical CD entries when there is a tombstone photo: Burial: memorial # 40788675, Harold Benjamin Heiple, includes tombstone photo Name: memorial # 40788675, Harold Benjamin Heiple, includes tombstone photo showing name as Harold B. Heiple Birth or Death: memorial # 40909253, Magdalena Wagner Guth, shows date and state and includes tombstone photo showing year Thus I try to show how the "real data" -- the tombstone -- supports or doesn't support the entry. Terry Reigel

[The problem with my citations is that they don't make it clear whether I used the database entry or the tombstone (or other) picture to support whatever I'm asserting.] Brian - I put a note in the TMG Burial Tag Memo field if my info is from the tombstone (e.g., "Death date taken from photo of tombstone posted on FAG."). Otherwise, using the FAG source (with URL to the specific memorial page) tells a reader that the data is from the FAG website itself. Greg On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 2:34 AM, Brian Gross <brian.gross@pacbell.net> wrote: > Find-a-Grave has ended up my "go-to" source for burial locations. I lumped > my citations to keep the number of sources down. As a result I have 1667 > citations to a single Find-a-Grave source, all of which are like this: > > Find A Grave, database and images (http://www.findagrave.com : accessed > 18 > Jun 2017), memorial 53213951, Cyrus Markle Hepler. > > The date of access, memorial number and name are passed via split CD. > > The problem with my citations is that they don't make it clear whether I > used the database entry or the tombstone (or other) picture to support > whatever I'm asserting. In addition, I don't credit the page creator or > the > photographer. Sigh. I'm less concerned that I don't list the cemetery > because the memorial number is associated with a single person, so the > cemetery name seems redundant. My citations would likely be different if I > were using Find A Grave to support an assertion other than burial location > (or birth/death dates). > > There have been a number of interesting discussions about citing Find A > Grave in the Citation Issues forum on Evidence Explained > (http://www.evidenceexplained.com). > > Brian > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TMG [mailto:tmg-bounces+brian.gross=pacbell.net@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Lee Hoffman/KY > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 10:28 AM > To: TMG List <tmg-l@rootsweb.com> > Subject: [TMG] Source Templates for Find A Grave > > For years, I have used a variation of Cemetery Marker Source Types for > creating my Sources based on Find A Grave postings.on line. I have never > been completely satisfied with the stated models by Lackey, Elizabeth Shown > Mills, or the TriValley TMG User Group's book. They just seemed to not > quite fit the situation. > > During a recent view of the Find A Grave web site, I happened upon its > Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) page -- specifically how to cite a Find A > Grave entry. It suggested a citation somewhat based on the basic high > school bibliographic citation model: > Bio Author. "Web Page Title". Find A Grave. Date of (your) access. > Note that the Author is the person creating the entry and not the founder > of > Find A Grave. I wasn't real happy with this either, but it gave me some > ideas. What I came up with is two variations for Split Sources and for > Grouped Sources: > > Grouped Sources --- > Full Footnote: > <[COMPILER], ><[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL], >Find A Grave< [CD1]>, Database and > images ([URL]: [ACCESS DATE])<, [CD2]>. > Short Footnote: > <[COMPILER], ><[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL], >Find A Grave< [CD1]><, [CD2]>. > Bibliography: > <[COMPILER]. ><[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL]. >Database and images. [URL]: > [ACCESS DATE]. > > Split Sources --- > Full Footnote: > <[COMPILER], >[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL], Find A Grave Memorial # [RECORD > NUMBER], Database and images ([URL]: [ACCESS DATE])<, [CD]>. > Short Footnote: > <[COMPILER], >[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL], Find A Grave Memorial # [RECORD > NUMBER]><, [CD]>. > Bibliography: > <[COMPILER]. >[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL] Memorial #[RECORD NUMBER]. > Database and images. [URL]: [ACCESS DATE]. > > In the Grouped models, CD1 would have entries like: Memorial > #12345678. In the Split models, the Memorial number would be entered just > as the number since the "Memorial #" is already included in the > Templates. CD2 in Grouped models and CD in the Split models would > have added information the user desires. > > As noted, the Compiler would be the name of the person creating the Find A > Grave page for the grave. The Subject would be the title of the page -- > normally the person for whom the page describes as the grave. > > I considered the possibility of adding the name of the cemetery (probably > as > Repository (and its address)). But, I thought this was unnecessary as Find > A Grave is the real repository. And advantage to searching within TMG > based > on Repository is offset by the inclusion of the cemetery name in the Burial > Tag. I do include the name of the cemetery in the Citation Detail when the > cemetery is known by multiple names and only the one is listed on the Find > A > Grave pages. Similarly, I note in the Citation Detail any conflicting > information I have that is not already noted on the page. > > Lee > > The TMG archive is found here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ > Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb. > ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ > Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb. > ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Chuck, When Wholly Genes indicated it was terminating TMG, it was suggested (by forum members) that we save a copy of TMG Ver 9.5. installer for future use. That is what I have on a disk now, for occasions like what I am having now...to re-install. It is not a Wholly Genes issued disk...it is what I personally saved to a disk. Thanks for the link to the d/l site anyway. Thanks, Ron Chénier http://chesnay.homestead.com/ http://www.bertrandchesnayfrancais.homestead.com -----Original Message----- From: TMG [mailto:tmg-bounces+ronchenier=rogers.com@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Wolfram Sent: June 18, 2017 9:06 PM To: The Master Genealogist Rootsweb Email List <tmg@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [TMG] Corrupted TMG Program Are you sure the disk is v.9.05?? I don't think the absolute final version was put out on disk. If the disk is anything less than v 9.05, then go to http://www.whollygenes.com/forums201/index.php?/topic/15915-tmg9-final-installers-v905/ and download the file there. Chuck On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 2:41 PM, Ron Chenier <ronchenier@rogers.com> wrote: > John, > > I have run Optimize and VFI many times with no results. > > Ron Chénier > > -----Original Message----- > From: TMG [mailto:tmg-bounces+ronchenier=rogers.com@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of John Cardinal > Sent: June 18, 2017 12:15 PM > To: 'The Master Genealogist Rootsweb Email List' <tmg@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [TMG] Corrupted TMG Program > > Ron, > > When programs are corrupt, they usually don't fail with symptoms like > you described. I think the TMG project indexes are corrupt, and it's > trivial to test that theory, so I suggest you use the File > > Maintenance > Optimize command in TMG and see if that solves the problem. > > John > > The TMG archive is found here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ > Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb. > ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ > Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb. > ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi John, The problems also exist when reports are output to screen. If I select output to Word it is gabled. If I select WordPerfect, that word processor freezes within TMG. If I select RTF output all is fine. When I open an RTF file I can then later save it to Word format. Still, I am sure re-installing TMG V.9.5 will hopefully resolve my issues. I will give it a try this morning. Ron Chénier http://chesnay.homestead.com/ http://www.bertrandchesnayfrancais.homestead.com -----Original Message----- From: TMG [mailto:tmg-bounces+ronchenier=rogers.com@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Hanson Sent: June 19, 2017 2:17 AM To: 'The Master Genealogist Rootsweb Email List' <tmg@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [TMG] [Norton AntiSpam] Corrupted TMG Program Ron Have you tried doing an output to screen? I don't use reports sticking to the research website instead. But surely if the program is corrupt then you would see if there also well.. Regards John Hanson, researcher, the Halsted Trust, http://www.halstedresearch.org.uk New family history conference in 2018 http://www.secretlives.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: TMG [mailto:tmg-bounces+john.hanson=one-name.org@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ron Chenier Sent: 18 June 2017 16:04 To: tmg@rootsweb.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam][TMG] Corrupted TMG Program I believe my TMG Program Ver. 9.5 is corrupted. Some reports are not being produced correctly. For instance my Relationship Reports do not identify the individuals in the reports, all individuals are identified as “unknown”. Many of my reports to WORD are garbled as well as reports to WordPerfect initially freeze. Too many problem!! I tried a backup sqz file on my old computer with TMG 9.5 on it and the reports there are coming out ok as well as Word files and WordPerfect files. So I believe my TMG program on my main computer is corrupt. I have gone through the maintenance routine, closed and re-open TMG but it did not resolve the issues. I also re-booted the computer and still no fixes to the issues. I do have a copy of TMG 9.5 installation disk and would like to know what the proper procedure would be to re-install it. Should I delete the TMG 9.5 presently on my main computer and re-install from the disk? I think I should delete the present program to get rid of the corrupted files, would that be correct? All my data have all been backed up safely. Ron Chénier <http://chesnay.homestead.com/> http://chesnay.homestead.com/ <http://www.bertrandchesnayfrancais.homestead.com/> http://www.bertrandchesnayfrancais.homestead.com The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ron Have you tried doing an output to screen? I don't use reports sticking to the research website instead. But surely if the program is corrupt then you would see if there also well.. Regards John Hanson, researcher, the Halsted Trust, http://www.halstedresearch.org.uk New family history conference in 2018 http://www.secretlives.org.uk -----Original Message----- From: TMG [mailto:tmg-bounces+john.hanson=one-name.org@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ron Chenier Sent: 18 June 2017 16:04 To: tmg@rootsweb.com Subject: [Norton AntiSpam][TMG] Corrupted TMG Program I believe my TMG Program Ver. 9.5 is corrupted. Some reports are not being produced correctly. For instance my Relationship Reports do not identify the individuals in the reports, all individuals are identified as “unknown”. Many of my reports to WORD are garbled as well as reports to WordPerfect initially freeze. Too many problem!! I tried a backup sqz file on my old computer with TMG 9.5 on it and the reports there are coming out ok as well as Word files and WordPerfect files. So I believe my TMG program on my main computer is corrupt. I have gone through the maintenance routine, closed and re-open TMG but it did not resolve the issues. I also re-booted the computer and still no fixes to the issues. I do have a copy of TMG 9.5 installation disk and would like to know what the proper procedure would be to re-install it. Should I delete the TMG 9.5 presently on my main computer and re-install from the disk? I think I should delete the present program to get rid of the corrupted files, would that be correct? All my data have all been backed up safely. Ron Chénier <http://chesnay.homestead.com/> http://chesnay.homestead.com/ <http://www.bertrandchesnayfrancais.homestead.com/> http://www.bertrandchesnayfrancais.homestead.com The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have chosen to use the excellent (IMHO) template in: The Tri-Valley TMG Users Group's Source Templates for The Master GenealogistT http://www.lulu.com/shop/tri-valley-tmg-users-group/source-templates-for-the -master-genealogisttm/paperback/product-22804992.html Livermore-Amador Genealogical Society, Livermore, California A guide for creating computerized genealogical source citation templates for The Master Genealogist(TM) software package. Each source type template includes the template structure for footnotes and bibliography, as well as citation examples of each. In addition, there are a number of extra tips, ideas and discussion points. These examples and pointers may serve as useful guides when creating source citations in other genealogy software applications. When you purchase the book you may obtain the complete templates by email to TVTMG.editors@L-AGS.org. TVTMG Cemetery Marker (online) 5.16 FULL FOOTNOTE: <[COMPILER], ><[ITAL:][REPOSITORY][:ITAL], >database and images (<[REPOSITORY ADDRESS] ><: accessed [CD3]>), <[CD1], ><[CD2], > <[CEMETERY], ><[CITY], ><[COUNTY], ><[STATE]><, photograph C [CD4]> <; [CM]>. Find a Grave, Inc., Find A Grave, database and images (http://www.findagrave.com/ : accessed 18 July 2011), Captain Denison Butler Baldwin (1832-1916) gravestone photograph, memorial no. 14354725, Maple Park Cemetery, Mercer County, West Virginia, photograph C Bridget Kelley-Dearing, 2006. SHORT FOOTNOTE: <[COMPILER], ><[ITAL:][REPOSITORY][:ITAL], ><[CD1], > <[SHORT LOCATION]><; [CM]>. Find a Grave, Inc., Find A Grave, Captain Denison Butler Baldwin (1832-1916) gravestone photograph, Mercer Co., W. Va.; grave is marked with a Confederate memorial cross. BIBLIOGRAPHY: <[COMPILER]. ><[ITAL:][REPOSITORY][:ITAL]. >Database and images. <[REPOSITORY ADDRESS]>< : [DATE]>. Find a Grave, Inc. Find A Grave. Database and images. http://www.findagrave.com/ : 2011. REMINDER: This template mimics EE QuickCheck Model 215, Online Images, p. 229, and online discussions in re: Find A Grave citations. - [CEMETERY] is the name of the cemetery. - [SHORT LOCATION] is the proper abbreviation of the cemetery's location; note that Mills does not include the cemetery's name in her template. Consider using only the city and state or county and state in this field. - [COMPILER] is the creator of the website. Note that this field obeys Surname, Given rule. - [DATE] is the year the information on this cemetery was posted or the year you accessed the material. - [STATE] is the state, spelled out. - [COUNTY] is omitted, if the city is well known. If it applies, the county should include "County", "Parish", etc.; e.g., Hamilton County or Orleans Parish. - [CITY] is the city. - [REPOSITORY] is the name of the website. - [REPOSITORY ADDRESS] is the main URL of the website. -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 10:28 AM To: TMG List Subject: [TMG] Source Templates for Find A Grave For years, I have used a variation of Cemetery Marker Source Types for creating my Sources based on Find A Grave postings on line. I have never been completely satisfied with the stated models by Lackey, Elizabeth Shown Mills, or the Tri-Valley TMG User Group's book. They just seemed to not quite fit the situation. During a recent view of the Find A Grave web site, I happened upon its Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) page -- specifically how to cite a Find A Grave entry. It suggested a citation somewhat based on the basic high school bibliographic citation model: Bio Author. "Web Page Title". Find A Grave. Date of (your) access. Note that the Author is the person creating the entry and not the founder of Find A Grave. I wasn't real happy with this either, but it gave me some ideas. What I came up with is two variations for Split Sources and for Grouped Sources: Grouped Sources --- Full Footnote: <[COMPILER], ><[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL], >Find A Grave< [CD1]>, Database and images ([URL]: [ACCESS DATE])<, [CD2]>. Short Footnote: <[COMPILER], ><[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL], >Find A Grave< [CD1]><, [CD2]>. Bibliography: <[COMPILER]. ><[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL]. >Database and images. [URL]: [ACCESS DATE]. Split Sources --- Full Footnote: <[COMPILER], >[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL], Find A Grave Memorial # [RECORD NUMBER], Database and images ([URL]: [ACCESS DATE])<, [CD]>. Short Footnote: <[COMPILER], >[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL], Find A Grave Memorial # [RECORD NUMBER]><, [CD]>. Bibliography: <[COMPILER]. >[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL] Memorial #[RECORD NUMBER]. Database and images. [URL]: [ACCESS DATE]. In the Grouped models, CD1 would have entries like: Memorial #12345678. In the Split models, the Memorial number would be entered just as the number since the "Memorial #" is already included in the Templates. CD2 in Grouped models and CD in the Split models would have added information the user desires. As noted, the Compiler would be the name of the person creating the Find A Grave page for the grave. The Subject would be the title of the page -- normally the person for whom the page describes as the grave. I considered the possibility of adding the name of the cemetery (probably as Repository (and its address)). But, I thought this was unnecessary as Find A Grave is the real repository. And advantage to searching within TMG based on Repository is offset by the inclusion of the cemetery name in the Burial Tag. I do include the name of the cemetery in the Citation Detail when the cemetery is known by multiple names and only the one is listed on the Find A Grave pages. Similarly, I note in the Citation Detail any conflicting information I have that is not already noted on the page. Lee The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Find-a-Grave has ended up my "go-to" source for burial locations. I lumped my citations to keep the number of sources down. As a result I have 1667 citations to a single Find-a-Grave source, all of which are like this: Find A Grave, database and images (http://www.findagrave.com : accessed 18 Jun 2017), memorial 53213951, Cyrus Markle Hepler. The date of access, memorial number and name are passed via split CD. The problem with my citations is that they don't make it clear whether I used the database entry or the tombstone (or other) picture to support whatever I'm asserting. In addition, I don't credit the page creator or the photographer. Sigh. I'm less concerned that I don't list the cemetery because the memorial number is associated with a single person, so the cemetery name seems redundant. My citations would likely be different if I were using Find A Grave to support an assertion other than burial location (or birth/death dates). There have been a number of interesting discussions about citing Find A Grave in the Citation Issues forum on Evidence Explained (http://www.evidenceexplained.com). Brian -----Original Message----- From: TMG [mailto:tmg-bounces+brian.gross=pacbell.net@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Lee Hoffman/KY Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 10:28 AM To: TMG List <tmg-l@rootsweb.com> Subject: [TMG] Source Templates for Find A Grave For years, I have used a variation of Cemetery Marker Source Types for creating my Sources based on Find A Grave postings.on line. I have never been completely satisfied with the stated models by Lackey, Elizabeth Shown Mills, or the TriValley TMG User Group's book. They just seemed to not quite fit the situation. During a recent view of the Find A Grave web site, I happened upon its Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) page -- specifically how to cite a Find A Grave entry. It suggested a citation somewhat based on the basic high school bibliographic citation model: Bio Author. "Web Page Title". Find A Grave. Date of (your) access. Note that the Author is the person creating the entry and not the founder of Find A Grave. I wasn't real happy with this either, but it gave me some ideas. What I came up with is two variations for Split Sources and for Grouped Sources: Grouped Sources --- Full Footnote: <[COMPILER], ><[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL], >Find A Grave< [CD1]>, Database and images ([URL]: [ACCESS DATE])<, [CD2]>. Short Footnote: <[COMPILER], ><[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL], >Find A Grave< [CD1]><, [CD2]>. Bibliography: <[COMPILER]. ><[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL]. >Database and images. [URL]: [ACCESS DATE]. Split Sources --- Full Footnote: <[COMPILER], >[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL], Find A Grave Memorial # [RECORD NUMBER], Database and images ([URL]: [ACCESS DATE])<, [CD]>. Short Footnote: <[COMPILER], >[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL], Find A Grave Memorial # [RECORD NUMBER]><, [CD]>. Bibliography: <[COMPILER]. >[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL] Memorial #[RECORD NUMBER]. Database and images. [URL]: [ACCESS DATE]. In the Grouped models, CD1 would have entries like: Memorial #12345678. In the Split models, the Memorial number would be entered just as the number since the "Memorial #" is already included in the Templates. CD2 in Grouped models and CD in the Split models would have added information the user desires. As noted, the Compiler would be the name of the person creating the Find A Grave page for the grave. The Subject would be the title of the page -- normally the person for whom the page describes as the grave. I considered the possibility of adding the name of the cemetery (probably as Repository (and its address)). But, I thought this was unnecessary as Find A Grave is the real repository. And advantage to searching within TMG based on Repository is offset by the inclusion of the cemetery name in the Burial Tag. I do include the name of the cemetery in the Citation Detail when the cemetery is known by multiple names and only the one is listed on the Find A Grave pages. Similarly, I note in the Citation Detail any conflicting information I have that is not already noted on the page. Lee The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

What was the link you were using in your original citation? Everything seemed consistent with the links and pages when I looked. The "ark" in their suggested citation means it's a permalink and should always get back to the same entry, no matter what FamilySearch might do to their internal indexing. One thing I noticed in the image was that it was listed as 514 of 522 which isn't very useful because it's referring to only a only subset of the 3294 images on the original microfilm. When I'm using a FamilySearch image, I search for the microfilm from the FamilySearch catalog, then use a citation only to the image, like this: Texas State Board of Health, Bureau of Vital Statistics, [Death Certificates] 73 (Aug 1939, Aransas-Brown, 36001-36500), death certificate no. 36492, Robert Anderson Watson, d. 22 Aug 1939, Silverton, Briscoe County; from "Texas death records, 1890-1976," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/778940?availability=Family History Library: accessed 18 Jun 2017), > Film/DGS 2118257 > Browse the images online > image 2867 of 3623; imaged from Family History Library (FHL) microfilm 2,118,257, item 6; Texas Department of Health, Bureau of Vital Statistics, Austin. The records are loose certificates bound into volumes. Brian -----Original Message----- From: TMG [mailto:tmg-bounces+brian.gross=pacbell.net@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Toby Turner Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 1:26 PM To: tmg@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [TMG] Problem with FHC's Texas Deaths, 1890-1976 database Lee, I use the List of Citations reports all the time. How on earth would I have found all 2,242 of them without using this useful report? Terry, I’ve never had this problem with FamilySearch before and did find a way to report it. I have had the title of a database change, but that’s easy to fix. Here’s how my corrected footnote to this database now reads for my greatgrandfather: "Texas Deaths, 1890-1976," index and images, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, FamilySearch ( https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JFW9-ZM9 : accessed 20 Jun 2011), Robert Anderson Watson, 22 Aug 1939; Silverton, Briscoe, Texas, reference Item 6 36492, State Registrar Office, Austin; FHL microfilm 2,118,257 . Index may link to wrong death certificate, go to image 2867 of 3623 to see it. [The address inside the parens is linkable in SS.] Terry, there is no way I’m going to download ALL the death certificates I’ve used. And, Lee, I have my FindAGrave footnotes formatted so that they, too, are clickable to the memorial page. FindAGrave, database and images at (http://www.findagrave.com: accessed 28 Feb 2012), memorial page for Pvt Robert A. Watson, at FindAGrave http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=47940538 , photograph of grave by Jim Davenport, maintained by Toby, citing Silverton Cemetery, Silverton, Briscoe County, Texas<. [CM]>. [The http address is linkable via SS. Terry Reigel helped me figure out the proper format to get these to link properly with the FindAGrave website.] Regards, Toby The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Are you sure the disk is v.9.05?? I don't think the absolute final version was put out on disk. If the disk is anything less than v 9.05, then go to http://www.whollygenes.com/forums201/index.php?/topic/15915-tmg9-final-installers-v905/ and download the file there. Chuck On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 2:41 PM, Ron Chenier <ronchenier@rogers.com> wrote: > John, > > I have run Optimize and VFI many times with no results. > > Ron Chénier > > -----Original Message----- > From: TMG [mailto:tmg-bounces+ronchenier=rogers.com@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf > Of John Cardinal > Sent: June 18, 2017 12:15 PM > To: 'The Master Genealogist Rootsweb Email List' <tmg@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [TMG] Corrupted TMG Program > > Ron, > > When programs are corrupt, they usually don't fail with symptoms like you > described. I think the TMG project indexes are corrupt, and it's trivial to > test that theory, so I suggest you use the File > Maintenance > Optimize > command in TMG and see if that solves the problem. > > John > > The TMG archive is found here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ > Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > > The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb. > ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ > Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb. > ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

On 6/18/2017 4:26 PM, Toby Turner wrote: > Terry, > I’ve never had this problem with FamilySearch before and did find a way to report it. I have had the title of a database change, but that’s easy to fix. Toby, That may be, but FamilySearch is a relative newcomer about putting images online. Sites with more history have done it a number of times. I don't think you can expect that not to happen again. > Terry, there is no way I’m going to download ALL the death certificates I’ve used. You didn't download them when you first found them? I download every source image I use. Terry

At 6/18/2017 14:25, Mary Grindol wrote >I use the template/source category "Cemetery Marker (published)." It is, >after all, published on the Internet. Yes, and Mills' "Evidence Explained" has a slightly revised version that is also good. But, as I said, they just didn't seem quite right to me. ---clipped--- >the date is the date the webpage was created There are occasionally Find A Grave page edits that change the information shown which is why I always use the date accessed since the edit may be after I access it or after someone else's access which differs from what I record from the page in my data. Lee

Lee, I use the List of Citations reports all the time. How on earth would I have found all 2,242 of them without using this useful report? Terry, I’ve never had this problem with FamilySearch before and did find a way to report it. I have had the title of a database change, but that’s easy to fix. Here’s how my corrected footnote to this database now reads for my greatgrandfather: "Texas Deaths, 1890-1976," index and images, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, FamilySearch ( https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JFW9-ZM9 : accessed 20 Jun 2011), Robert Anderson Watson, 22 Aug 1939; Silverton, Briscoe, Texas, reference Item 6 36492, State Registrar Office, Austin; FHL microfilm 2,118,257 . Index may link to wrong death certificate, go to image 2867 of 3623 to see it. [The address inside the parens is linkable in SS.] Terry, there is no way I’m going to download ALL the death certificates I’ve used. And, Lee, I have my FindAGrave footnotes formatted so that they, too, are clickable to the memorial page. FindAGrave, database and images at (http://www.findagrave.com: accessed 28 Feb 2012), memorial page for Pvt Robert A. Watson, at FindAGrave http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=47940538 , photograph of grave by Jim Davenport, maintained by Toby, citing Silverton Cemetery, Silverton, Briscoe County, Texas<. [CM]>. [The http address is linkable via SS. Terry Reigel helped me figure out the proper format to get these to link properly with the FindAGrave website.] Regards, Toby

John, I have run Optimize and VFI many times with no results. Ron Chénier -----Original Message----- From: TMG [mailto:tmg-bounces+ronchenier=rogers.com@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Cardinal Sent: June 18, 2017 12:15 PM To: 'The Master Genealogist Rootsweb Email List' <tmg@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [TMG] Corrupted TMG Program Ron, When programs are corrupt, they usually don't fail with symptoms like you described. I think the TMG project indexes are corrupt, and it's trivial to test that theory, so I suggest you use the File > Maintenance > Optimize command in TMG and see if that solves the problem. John The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I use the template/source category "Cemetery Marker (published)." It is, after all, published on the Internet. The Author is the person who created/manages the webpage, the Publisher's address is "FindAGrave.com" and the publisher is "Find A Grave," the date is the date the webpage was created and I add the page I accessed the website. I place the FAG Memorial number in the title along with the name of the deceased. If there is a photo of the grave, I save that as an exhibit, either associated with the source or as a general exhibit, crediting the person who actually contributed the photo and the date taken or uploaded in the properties of the exhibit page. I may have modified this template slightly from the default since it is marked (custom) but it works for me. If there is a transcription of the marker, it can be either in the CD or in the memo for the burial tag. Granted, sometimes the author has only a user name and not a real name, but the output doesn't seem to mind that. Mary Grindol -----Original Message----- Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2017 13:27:32 -0400 From: Lee Hoffman/KY <azchief@bellsouth.net> For years, I have used a variation of Cemetery Marker Source Types for creating my Sources based on Find A Grave postings.on line. I have never been completely satisfied with the stated models by Lackey, Elizabeth Shown Mills, or the TriValley TMG User Group's book. They just seemed to not quite fit the situation. During a recent view of the Find A Grave web site, I happened upon its Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) page -- specifically how to cite a Find A Grave entry. It suggested a citation somewhat based on the basic high school bibliographic citation model: Bio Author. "Web Page Title". Find A Grave. Date of (your) access. Note that the Author is the person creating the entry and not the founder of Find A Grave. I wasn't real happy with this either, but it gave me some ideas. What I came up with is two variations for Split Sources and for Grouped Sources: Grouped Sources --- Full Footnote: <[COMPILER], ><[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL], >Find A Grave< [CD1]>, Database and images ([URL]: [ACCESS DATE])<, [CD2]>. Short Footnote: <[COMPILER], ><[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL], >Find A Grave< [CD1]><, [CD2]>. Bibliography: <[COMPILER]. ><[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL]. >Database and images. [URL]: [ACCESS DATE]. Split Sources --- Full Footnote: <[COMPILER], >[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL], Find A Grave Memorial # [RECORD NUMBER], Database and images ([URL]: [ACCESS DATE])<, [CD]>. Short Footnote: <[COMPILER], >[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL], Find A Grave Memorial # [RECORD NUMBER]><, [CD]>. Bibliography: <[COMPILER]. >[ITAL:][SUBJECT][:ITAL] Memorial #[RECORD NUMBER]. Database and images. [URL]: [ACCESS DATE]. In the Grouped models, CD1 would have entries like: Memorial #12345678. In the Split models, the Memorial number would be entered just as the number since the "Memorial #" is already included in the Templates. CD2 in Grouped models and CD in the Split models would have added information the user desires. As noted, the Compiler would be the name of the person creating the Find A Grave page for the grave. The Subject would be the title of the page -- normally the person for whom the page describes as the grave. I considered the possibility of adding the name of the cemetery (probably as Repository (and its address)). But, I thought this was unnecessary as Find A Grave is the real repository. And advantage to searching within TMG based on Repository is offset by the inclusion of the cemetery name in the Burial Tag. I do include the name of the cemetery in the Citation Detail when the cemetery is known by multiple names and only the one is listed on the Find A Grave pages. Similarly, I note in the Citation Detail any conflicting information I have that is not already noted on the page. Lee