Hi Rick, Are you talking about occasional large gaps? Are these associated with "unknown person" boxes being placed an excess distance to the right? If so, identify the associated descendant and and deliberately add a new person, name "unknown person" for each case. [The VCF layout algorithm acts differently for a known ID person compared to one that it has create itself.] Now generate the chart again. If the chart is very wide and shallow look at the technique I described on page 243 of "Getting the Most Out of The Master Genealogist". This involves some post-generation editing. Typically this technique can reduce the width down to 35-50% of the original generated with by increasing the depth of the chart. Robin On 12/06/2015 8:56 PM, Rick Van Dusen via wrote: > I've printed Descendant Box Charts for my family, but find they come out > way too wide. Is there a way of: > > 1. Causing VCF to reduce the horizontal distances between boxes (in one > case I have one person hanging 10m out from the next "outlier"), > > and/or > > 2. Reducing the overall size of the chart ("zoom", but actually changing > the print size)? > > > Rick Van Dusen > The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ > Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Robin Lamacraft, Adelaide, Australia

Hi List I made a new TAG today and for some reason I have one sentence that will only pick up the subject and then drop the remainder of the sentence. TAG sentence <, and [detail1] was the informant on the death certificate> Out put of preview sentence. , and Mrs. John Blizzard Thanks for any help Robert Hartman My new TAG information [:CR:][:TAB:]The< [M1]> Death Certificate had the following information: [PF] <died on [DD]> < at the age of [AE]> < [L1]>< at [L3]><, [L4]><, [L5]><, [L6]> <and, the attending physician was [M2]> <, and he listed the cause of death as [M9]> <, and the attending physician signed the Death Certificate form on [M4]> <, and give the address of [M3]> <, and [detail1] was the informant on the death certificate> <, and [R:WidowedInformant] was the informant on the death certificate> <, and the informant give the place of resident as [detail2]> <, and [M7] was the undertaker> < doing business in [M8]> <, and [PF] was burial in the [M5]> < on [M6]> <, and the local register [detail4],> <received certificate on [detail3]> <, and Certificate of Death File Number was [detail5]> The preview sentence output. The State of Missouri Death Certificate had the following information: John died on Fri. 31 May 1918 at the age of 61 years, 2 months and 5 days at Wyaconda, Township of Wyaconda, County of Clark, State of Missouri, United States of America and, the attending physician was S. E. Doss M.D. , and he listed the cause of death as Cerebral Haemorrhage , and the attending physician signed the Death Certificate form on 31 May 1918 , and give the address of Wyaconda, MO , and Mrs. John Blizzard , and the informant give the place of resident as Wyaconda, MO , and Gerth and Baskett was the undertaker doing business in Wyaconda, MO, and John was burial in the New Woodville Cemetery, Township of Washington, County of Clark, State of Missouri on 2 June 1918 , and the local register S. E. Doss, received certificate on 31 May 1918 , and Certificate of Death File Number was 1918-016,469.

Many thanks for your comments John and Mike I was getting results which confused me. I had muddled up the notion in AE meaning 'age exact' thinking it would output in years, months and days (which I didn't want) and, knowing that one date was approximate, made the mistake of thinking the RA variable was thus the correct alternative. Mea culpa. I was surprised though that the [RA:Child] function not only killed off the conditional clause, but also the date and the following memo. When I came to output the same sentence to Word rather than the screen, using the Individual Narrative report, I got a slightly different response. In this instance the memo was converted into a footer comment which I understand to occur when a memo exists but there is no [M] function in the sentence structure. So, I don't understand that. It brings me back to a worry I had many years ago and had forgotten about. You rarely know beforehand when to apply an [RA] or an [RE] function (and presumably an [A] or [AE] function) as you generally don't know the completeness of the two dates which will be involved for the calculation. Nor can you use you a conditional condition in a sentence to select one or the other. Therefore whilst being a really useful function, it seems flawed for use in a general sentence structure, unless other people have found a way round this? The only way I can think of managing these two conditions (2 complete dates vs. not 2 complete dates) would be to create a separate sentence for each and then remember to select the correct one each time? It is a bit of hassle as one has to remember that a particular sentence has an age function in it each time. Also, that at a later time, one might improve an approximate date with new information and forget to change the necessary sentence and tag with it? Are there any better ideas? Yes, I don't have access to the [SA] function in 7.4 but does this have a similar issue relating to the completeness of the dates? I also noticed in passing that when using the [RE:Child] function, TMG gives the result as "He was 5 years when ..." when SS gives "He was 4 years when ..". (I obviously need to add the word 'old' to the sentence). Nick Sentence structure read (at the time): [:CR:][:CR:][:TAB:]<He was [RA:Child] when> his parents divorced<[D]>. <[M]>

Nick, I did not suggest [AE] (or [RE:role]) because of the problem you described where you get a date with unwanted detail (months, days) if both birth and event dates are exact enough to provide those values. For my own sentences, I use [A] and its variants and I don't worry about the cases where the age can't be calculated. I am biased, however: I don't want the sentence to include "at age 55" if it might have been age 54 or 56! Regarding the difference of the [AE] value in TMG and SS, I can only tell you how SS works. Its basic approach is to assume month=1 and day=1 for missing parts of partial dates. Here are some examples. "B=" shows the birth date, "E=" shows the event date. #1: B="1960" E="2000" Years=40 * Both dates assume month=1 and day=1. #2: B="1960" E="01 Jul 2000" Years=40 * "1960" treated as 1/1/1960, so any day in 2000 is 40 years difference. #3: B="01 Jul 1960" E="2000" Years=39 * "2000" treated as 1/1/2000, and any day before July 1 is 39 years. #4: B="01 Jul 1960" E="30 Jun 2000" Years=39 * Same as above, just showing a specific day before July 1. #5: B="01 Jul 1960" E="01 Jul 2000" Years=40 * Flips over to 40 on the matching month, day and subsequent #6: B="01 Jul 1960" E="02 Jul 2000" Years=40 * Same as above. Again, I don't know how TMG does it. Perhaps TMG is only considering the years of the two dates when one of the dates has a year only. If that is so, I won't be changing SS to match it. John

At 6/12/2015 06:38, you wrote: > It is a bit of hassle as >one has to remember that a particular sentence has an age function in it >each time. Also, that at a later time, one might improve an approximate >date with new information and forget to change the necessary sentence >and tag with it? Are there any better ideas? Not really. I keep a "cheat sheet" handy of things like this to review as I enter new data. In reality there is only one date that you need keep in mind when the data changes and that is the individual's birth date. If the Date of the Tag changes, you are already in that Tag and just need to check if the Sentence remains OK. The Birth Date can affect many Tags, so that means a more comprehensive review of other Tags fror that individual needs to be done when it changes (mostly from a partial to a full date). It is a mindset that you need to develop and the willingness to take the time to review and edit as necessary. Cheat sheets listing Tags that need checking can help (and somewhat speed up the review), but it is still a hassle. Lee Hoffman/KY

On 6/12/2015 6:38 AM, Nick Shelley via wrote: > I was getting results which confused me. I had muddled up the > notion in AE meaning 'age exact' thinking it would output in years, > months and days (which I didn't want) and, knowing that one date was > approximate, made the mistake of thinking the RA variable was thus the > correct alternative. Mea culpa. Nick, you didn't muddy it at all - the definition of the variable is very muddy. It's really two different variables. If both the primary birth date and the tag date are full days, it becomes the "Exact Age" variable, working as you recall. But if either is a partial date (when [A] produces no output) it becomes the "Estimated Age" variable producing the year only. No wonder users are confused. > I was surprised though that the [RA:Child] function not only killed > off the conditional clause, but also the date and the following memo. It should kill the conditional clause. I don't understand what happened to the rest. > When I came to output the same sentence to Word rather than the screen, > using the Individual Narrative report, I got a slightly different > response. In this instance the memo was converted into a footer comment > which I understand to occur when a memo exists but there is no [M] > function in the sentence structure. So, I don't understand that. First, this happens only when the report option to put Memos not in the sentence in the footnotes is checked - an option that I think should have been removed years ago because of all the grief it causes. But no doubt others will disagree. <g> But why it applies here I don't understand. There's some issue happening that's not apparent. > It brings me back to a worry I had many years ago and had forgotten > about. You rarely know beforehand when to apply an [RA] or an [RE] > function (and presumably an [A] or [AE] function) as you generally don't > know the completeness of the two dates which will be involved for the > calculation. Nor can you use you a conditional condition in a sentence > to select one or the other. Therefore whilst being a really useful > function, it seems flawed for use in a general sentence structure, > unless other people have found a way round this? I don't know of a solution. > The only way I can > think of managing these two conditions (2 complete dates vs. not 2 > complete dates) would be to create a separate sentence for each and then > remember to select the correct one each time? That would work, but has the risk you mention next. > It is a bit of hassle as > one has to remember that a particular sentence has an age function in it > each time. Also, that at a later time, one might improve an approximate > date with new information and forget to change the necessary sentence > and tag with it? Are there any better ideas? Terry Reigel

Rick - To set space between boxes: Chart / Options / Chart Style / Gap between boxes For other tips on downsizing charts, see the settings in the VCF forum message here: http://www.whollygenes.com/forums201/index.php?showtopic=10885 There are other helpful links for downsizing charts in the pinned message at the top of the VCF forum on One-page charts. You can change the font type and size in the report options. Virginia On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 7:26 AM, Rick Van Dusen via <tmg@rootsweb.com> wrote: > I've printed Descendant Box Charts for my family, but find they come out > way too wide. Is there a way of: > > 1. Causing VCF to reduce the horizontal distances between boxes (in one > case I have one person hanging 10m out from the next "outlier"), > > and/or > > 2. Reducing the overall size of the chart ("zoom", but actually changing > the print size)? > > > Rick Van Dusen > The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ > Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I've printed Descendant Box Charts for my family, but find they come out way too wide. Is there a way of: 1. Causing VCF to reduce the horizontal distances between boxes (in one case I have one person hanging 10m out from the next "outlier"), and/or 2. Reducing the overall size of the chart ("zoom", but actually changing the print size)? Rick Van Dusen

Thanks Terry, Apparently It was the register that I changed and not savy enough to correct. Pauline ---- Terry Reigel via <tmg@rootsweb.com> wrote: > On 6/11/2015 3:40 PM, paulineb via wrote: > > Jim Bryam, > > Trying to get my reports to print I followed your manual instructions found on the Forum. That didn't work and now I can't uninstall > > TMGv9.05. Asking me to verify? After following your instructions I went back in to TMG and the focus person had the name but all the > > rest was gone! Apparently I should have just uninstalled however I did try repair and that didn't work either. > > > > > > Pauline, > > Jim does not monitor this list. To contact him you need to post to the Wholly Genes Forum. > > Terry Reigel > > > The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ > Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Kay, I am not sure which sentence you mean when you say "recommended example in the original message". I just tested the output of this sentence: [:CR:][:CR:][:TAB:]<She was [RA:Child] when >her parents divorced<[D]>. In SS, the result was: She was 28 when her parents divorced in January 1850. I also tested this sentence: [:CR:][:CR:][:TAB:]<She was [RA:Child] when> her parents divorced<[D]>. That produced the same output in SS: She was 28 when her parents divorced in January 1850. I also tested that sentence using a year-only date on the event, which triggers the omission of the "She was ..." clause. That produced this output in SS: Her parents divorced in 1850. That had the same number of leading spaces as the prior example. That was a surprise; I thought SS would retain the space after the conditional reference, in addition to the spaces that result from the [:TAB:] code, but it didn't. I think that's a special case where SS removes the space, but I didn't investigate further. There are a few cases where spacing is different between SS and TMG. That's partly due to no explicit rules for how TMG handles spacing. If you have an example where SS produces results different from TMG, please provide a full example: 1 - The TMG sentence structure you used. 2 - The output from a TMG narrative report for that sentence only. 3 - The output from SS for that sentence only. Thanks. John

Duh, now I see the problem--there's NO space at all. As Roseanne Rosanna Danna would say ... "Nevermind." If I should find a real example, I'll let you know. Thanks ... KayS -----Original Message----- From: tmg-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:tmg-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kay Schmidt via Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 3:58 PM To: tmg@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [TMG] Where to put space in conditional references OK, John, it took a little hunting to find an example, but here's the information you asked for. As it turns out, this particular tag in my project has only P1 (no P2 or other roles). Didn't test for that. 1. Land tag, sentence for Principal: [:CR:][:TAB:]<[D],><[P1]><and his wife [P2F]>sold <[M1]><[L]><[M2]><to [R:Buyer1]><and [R:Buyer2]><[M3]>. <[M4]> 2. TMG output: On 16 Apr 1788, Misael WOOD sold 73a called Arabia to Nathan Harrison at St. Mary's County, MD. 3. Second Site output: On 16 April 1788, Misael Woodsold 73a called Desert to Nathan Harrison at St. Mary's County, MD. Appreciate your help, KayS -----Original Message----- John Cardinal Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [TMG] Where to put space in conditional references If you have an example where SS produces results different from TMG, please provide a full example: 1 - The TMG sentence structure you used. 2 - The output from a TMG narrative report for that sentence only. 3 - The output from SS for that sentence only. Thanks. John The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 6/11/2015 3:40 PM, paulineb via wrote: > Jim Bryam, > Trying to get my reports to print I followed your manual instructions found on the Forum. That didn't work and now I can't uninstall > TMGv9.05. Asking me to verify? After following your instructions I went back in to TMG and the focus person had the name but all the > rest was gone! Apparently I should have just uninstalled however I did try repair and that didn't work either. > > Pauline, Jim does not monitor this list. To contact him you need to post to the Wholly Genes Forum. Terry Reigel

OK, John, it took a little hunting to find an example, but here's the information you asked for. As it turns out, this particular tag in my project has only P1 (no P2 or other roles). Didn't test for that. 1. Land tag, sentence for Principal: [:CR:][:TAB:]<[D],><[P1]><and his wife [P2F]>sold <[M1]><[L]><[M2]><to [R:Buyer1]><and [R:Buyer2]><[M3]>. <[M4]> 2. TMG output: On 16 Apr 1788, Misael WOOD sold 73a called Arabia to Nathan Harrison at St. Mary's County, MD. 3. Second Site output: On 16 April 1788, Misael Woodsold 73a called Desert to Nathan Harrison at St. Mary's County, MD. Appreciate your help, KayS -----Original Message----- John Cardinal Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [TMG] Where to put space in conditional references If you have an example where SS produces results different from TMG, please provide a full example: 1 - The TMG sentence structure you used. 2 - The output from a TMG narrative report for that sentence only. 3 - The output from SS for that sentence only. Thanks. John The TMG archive is found here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jim Bryam, Trying to get my reports to print I followed your manual instructions found on the Forum. That didn't work and now I can't uninstall TMGv9.05. Asking me to verify? After following your instructions I went back in to TMG and the focus person had the name but all the rest was gone! Apparently I should have just uninstalled however I did try repair and that didn't work either. HELP, Pauline Ballentine

I have a divorce tag one of whose roles is that for a 'Child'. What I want to write is "He (say) was x years when his parents divorced". Accordingly the child sentence structure reads: [:CR:][:CR:][:TAB:]<He was [RA:Child] when> his parents divorced<[D]>. <[M]> but the output does not recognise the role so that the resultant sentence is "His parents divorced". His birth date is exact and the divorce references the year. What am I doing wrong? Nick Shelley

On 6/11/2015 12:10 PM, Joe LaPointe via wrote: > Thanks to everyone who responded for the excellent suggestions. I now > have a bunch of ideas to work with. > > My main use of census tags is to indicate where the principals and their > children were living when the census was taken. I don't keep track of > all the information that is included in a census. > Joe, If you are recording the principals and their children and not all the other details in the census record you may find my Census Tags offer some suggestions. They are described in an article on my site at http://tmg.reigelridge.com/Census.htm and the one linked near the bottom of that page. An example of how they can be used together with other information to create a narrative with less repetition can be seen at http://reigelridge.com/roots/p18979.htm Terry Reigel

I'm relatively new using Second Site, but I've noticed that the output omits a space that is within a conditional reference. I've had to fix that in a number of my sentences. Here's what I would get from the recommended example in the original message: He was 10 whenhis parents divorced. Kay (Offutt) Schmidt Oregon -----Original Message----- John Cardinal via Subject: Re: [TMG] TMG 7.4: including the age of a witness to an event I also recommend moving the space after the conditional reference for the age inside the conditional reference: [:CR:][:CR:][:TAB:]<He was [SA] when >his parents divorced<[D]>. <[M]> That will prevent an extra space in the output after the [:TAB:] when the age cannot be calculated.

You need to refresh the relationships for the child to show properly. Go to Preferences-->Other (the very bottom)-->Refresh Relationships. I find that if I create the child from the related parent (rather than the unrelated one), the relationship is added. It's not added when I add the other way around. On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Ray DeRousse via <tmg@rootsweb.com> wrote: > I added a person who is a "1st cousin 3 times removed". Her husband shows > "husband of 1st cousin 3 times removed" as expected. > > When I added their child I get "No relationship". > > I can't see anything that would indicate something being incorrect and > don't understand why this person would show "no relationship". > > Thanks in advance. > > Ray > The TMG archive is found here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/TMG/ > Instructions on how to subscribe to TMG: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/Software/TMG.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > TMG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- Karla Huebner calypsospots AT gmail.com

Nick, You said, "His birth date is exact and the divorce references the year." TMG won't return a value for [RA:role] when one of the dates is a year only. Also, your sentence is: [:CR:][:CR:][:TAB:]<He was [RA:Child] when> his parents divorced<[D]>. <[M]> In a sentence for someone with the role Child, it's usually best to avoid using role-based variables such as [RA:Child]. Use the subject-based variables instead: [:CR:][:CR:][:TAB:]<He was [SA] when> his parents divorced<[D]>. <[M]> When you have more than one person attached to the tag with the role "Child", [RA:Child] will produce a list of ages. If TMG can calculate them. That's usually not what you want. Typically, you want the age of the current person (the subject) only. I also recommend moving the space after the conditional reference for the age inside the conditional reference: [:CR:][:CR:][:TAB:]<He was [SA] when >his parents divorced<[D]>. <[M]> That will prevent an extra space in the output after the [:TAB:] when the age cannot be calculated. Lastly, you can make the sentence work for either gender as follows: [:CR:][:CR:][:TAB:]<[SP] was [SA] when >[SPP] parents divorced<[D]>. <[M]> John

Joe LaPointe responded: > Thanks to everyone who responded for the excellent suggestions. > I now have a bunch of ideas to work with. > My main use of census tags is to indicate where the principals > and their children were living when the census was taken. > I don't keep track of all the information that is included > in a census. Glad to give ideas, Joe, but if that is your main use, then I might not use any Census tags at all. I would use a single tag whose date was a date *range* with a sentence indicating their residence throughout that date range. Then the multiple census records covering that range can simply be cited as sources for this one sentence. That would definately avoid the repetition. I created a custom tag type in the Address group for this purpose named "ResidedAddress". The [D] variable is unconditional in its sentence templates and expects to be a date range format, either "from-to", or maybe "after". See more about this custom tag in the "Custom Tag Type Descriptions" in my on-line book: http://www.mjh-nm.net/TAGCUSTM.HTML#ResidenceTag and its sentence templates in the "Tag Sentences" chapter: http://www.mjh-nm.net/SENTENCE.HTML#ResidenceSentences You could choose to enter both the Census tags as well as a "ResidedAddress" tag, and then select which tag types output using the report options. Some reports may want all the information that is included in a census, some not. That would give you the choice. Hope this gives you further ideas, Michael